Crime / Pulp (for when I go through Parker Withdrawl)

[Greg]

When I finish my reading through the Parker novels I might want to find some similar-ish books to read. I don't really like mystery novels that much. I'd like something that falls in to the mid / current period Ellroy / Richard Stark, or like Raymond Chandler. I'm better at saying what I don't like about other books than really getting what I like. I don't like too much humor to be in the books, and excessive use of one-liners is a no-no. I don't really care about solving anything. I don't really like Dashiel Hammet. I like Raymond Chandler for the way he writes and the atmosphere he creates. I like the darkness and sociopath tendencies of Stark and Ellroy's characters. I like the books to have a trajectory that the author can keep up with, for example when I've read someone like Mickey Spillane or Jim Thompson by the middle of the books it feels like the author is writing to boost the word count so the story will be novel length.

[karen, future RA queen]

have you tried any of the hard case books?? this is not RA work, i am just curious.

[Greg]

No, I haven't. I could do some looking up of reviews for some of them to see if it sounds like they would be good for me. I like the way they look but I've been skeptical about if they would be for me or not.

[karen, future RA queen]

well, some of them are by donald westlake, is the only reason i mention them.

[Greg]

From what I've read about Donald Westlake his own novels are more like wise-cracking PI's.

[Krok Zero]

I've only read one of his books, but you might want to look into David Goodis, Greg. He wrote pulp mostly in the '50s and his novel The Burglar is super-dark and written in a unique style. It's about a gang of career burglars; the main burglar is shackled with the obligation of taking care of the daughter of his criminal mentor, and he wants to let her out of the burglar life but that proves impossible due to plot events I won't reveal. I wrote a little blurb review of it on this site. In general, anything put out by the Black Lizard publisher would probably work as your post-Parker methadone.

Karen, am I doing this right? I'm not sure how this is supposed to be different from regular GR book chatter...

[karen, future RA queen]

you are being perfect. it is just like regular book chatter, with more specific details. i did some superficial "teaching" in the basics thread - that will serve as a guideline system for now... as the group goes on, i will drop more knowledge and we will all grow together! it just emphasizes structure more than "feeling", although a lot of it is intuitive. it is just a system for recommending books people are sure to like. so far, we are doing good work.

[Krok Zero]

I'M A BUSY MAN I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO READ YOUR OTHER THREADS. j/k, I will check that out, it is nice to be part of your noble experiment.

[karen, future RA queen]

i can totally give you private instruction in PMs if you like.

[Krok Zero]

That's nice of you but shouldn't be necessary, as I am not remotely a "busy man" and don't mind looking over the instructions you lovingly crafted elsewhere in this group. Unless this is some kind of hot teacher-student porn fantasy, in which case I am all for it.

[Dave]

Have you read anything by Charles Willeford? His books are solely character driven. No mysteries get solved, but there are plenty of fascinating revelations. His prose is very lean.

The Burnt Orange Heresy is one of my favorite books. It's about an ambitious self-centered art critic who is hired to steal some paintings from a reclusive artist. There's an amazing psychological twist in the middle. That's when things shift (both thematically and plot-wise) from the sun drenched beachfronts of South Florida to the shadowy pine forests of the Everglades.

Pick-up is more in the romantic-but-doomed-lovers genre. Again it takes place in the art world, only this time the main character is a lonely and unfulfilled art teacher in San Francisco. He meets up with a lost-soul-boozy-blonde woman. They lead each other down the rabbit hole of despair. (The last sentence of the book causes somewhat of a gestalt shift in the reader's perception of the main character, but it never struck me as gimmicky. I think he's partly questioning his reader's assumptions.)

[Deb]

Motherless Brooklyn

[Eric]

I'm a big fan of the Lew Griffin series by James Sallis. It starts with The Long-Legged Fly (all of them have insect-related titles). They're definitely in the noir vein (even though Lew is a PI) and are heavy on atmosphere and character (Lew is a complicated dude).

[Flannery, html whiz]

In an effort to have all recommendations easily accessible on the right side of the screen next to the query, here is a list of books and authors mentioned in this thread that weren't linked above:

Books:
The Burglar

Authors:
Raymond Chandler
Richard Stark
David Goodis
Charles Willeford
James Sallis



Please continue the discussion and recommendations:)

[Greg]

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm going to definitely check out Willeford, Goodis and Sallis. I liked Motherless Brooklyn but not in the way that I'm looking for in this kind of book.

[David]

One possibility might be Kem Nunn. I enjoyed his first couple of books Tapping the Source (Tr, Reissue and Pomona Queen, though I haven't kept up with his most recent stuff. Southern California surfer noir might be one description (possibly not a very good one). But I like the way he writes.

[Greg]

These all sound like pretty good recommendations that I'm going to request from the library soon. I'm curious though if there are any recommendations that are from the criminal's point of view, like in the Parker novels and in the American trilogy by James Ellroy?

[Brian R.]

Not a crime novel and not particularly pulpy, butShantaram is a good [if very long] read narrated by a prison escapee on the run.

[karen, future RA queen]

greg - you would totally dig that book - really great love letter to india - the best and the worst of it. the crime/jail parts are great, with really interesting secondary characters, same for the doctoring bits - there is a bollywood-ish interlude that i wasn't wild about, but it is just a massive book about a guy trying to make his way in a new country while on the lam. he is not a sociopath like your beloved parker, though, quite the opposite. but i think roberts is an excellent writer.

[Brian R.]

Exactly what I would have said if I were as articulate as Karen is.

[karen, future RA queen]

well, that's just good RA training. which we are all now learning together!

[Greg]

I do have Shantaram somewhere in my apartment and I have been meaning to read it at some point.

[Paul]

Greg:

Dave Zeltserman has three novels that he calls his "man out of prison" series. Small Crimes, Pariah, and Killer. It's not a series of continuing characters, but each book begins with a man getting out of prison and is told from the ex-con's point of view.

These books are very dark and gritty, and I highly recommend them.

[karen, future RA queen]

greg, you didn't even read any of these, did you?? you are the worst!

[Greg]

I did try Charles Willeford and I didn't love him, I'm going to try a couple of more of these soon so I can give you some feedback.

[karen, future RA queen]

jeez.

[karen, future RA queen]

read shantaram already.

[Greg]

maybe I'll read it next. I can see the book on my shelf.

[karen, future RA queen]

that's the first step.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Krok Zero wrote: "Unless this is some kind of hot teacher-student porn fantasy, in which case I am all for it. "

I'd also like to sign up for this if it ever happens.

As far as recommendations go, doubt I have anything along these lines, but if you ever need something in the mildly to incredibly cheesy English mystery style, I can probably hook you up.

[Tuck]

Greg wrote: "I did try Charles Willeford and I didn't love him, I'm going to try a couple of more of these soon so I can give you some feedback."

aaahhh, that's too bad. maybe look into amazaonencore imprint. i've read a few and am impressed, like the grove

and this one from the perps pov (he is nuts btw) and this one about a school teacher/serial killer/noir
i like benjamin black's (he's john banville in real life) novels too, take place in 1950's ireland, not a whole lot of detection going on, but definitely lots of dark brooding , but really greg, this is hard for me to deal with, you like parkers, but you didn't like charles willeford? (throws up hands like shopsin and grumbles)

[Tuck]

Greg wrote: "Thanks for the recommendations. I'm going to definitely check out Willeford, Goodis and Sallis. I liked Motherless Brooklyn but not in the way that I'm looking for in this kind of book."
i forgot grege, i think you might really like this matter-of-fact aircraft co. pr/strong man criminal/retuning vet by scott phillips
oh shooot i forgot, if you can find it, street raised is good and some jsut great great short stories, but linked to tell a bigger story

and a gr author, josh stallings is good and this one is about a newspaper, so not a whole lot of detection, but whole lot of noir , oh darn i can't find this one, nevermind.
ok, now this post is getting all messed up, but here are some more suggestions: solares and the narcocrime down south and some argentina crime

[Tuck]

eerrrggg...