Currently reading a book with an action heroine?

[Derrick]

Interesting thoughts on the family-less heroine. I was thinking at first that maybe Armstrong herself was adopted or something. But wiki says "the oldest of four siblings in a 'typical middle-class family' in Sudbury, Ontario". So no.

I have to think it's a shortcut, similar to giving your leading lady a trauma in her past (rape, etc - see Veronica Mars, for one example) to drive her actions.

As a shortcut, it doesn't have to be bad - it works quite well in Bitten. Just like with any other trope. And it's no different than male heroes suffering tragedy to motivate them - Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Frank Castle.

[Werner]

I'm also inclined to think that creating an action heroine (or hero) who's essentially a loner, orphaned or estranged from family, and carrying some deep psychological scar, is not necessarily lazy writing. Such characters may fascinate both writers and readers, more so than characters who've always had loving families and easy circumstances, because how they cope with this kind of adversity and manage to carve out some kind of psychological health and normality for themselves, and how they form human relationships instead of family, can be inherently interesting. And this kind of background may believably explain why a character has had to develop self-reliance, and perhaps fighting skills. Yes, a woman can have other motivations for that than these. But these shouldn't be ignored by writers as realistic motivations. And that isn't necessarily a case of plot driving character, IMO; a character's backstory and formative experiences are a crucial part of who she essentially is as a person.

For most of us, our experience of family comes in two stages: the one we're born into, and the one we form through marriage. It's less common for action heroines to be depicted at the latter stage, partly just because modern literature tends to prefer characters who are single, and partly because (especially in romances), a major part of the story the writer wants to tell may be about how the protagonist finds her true love and establishes her marriage. If she's already married to start with, writer and readers don't get the privilege of showing and seeing how that all began.

As E. G. noted, if an action-oriented character has a family (birth family and/or spouse/kids) the author has to deal with how the family comes to terms with the danger and inconveniences a lifestyle of physical action entails. (Obviously, most realistic families would probably prefer that their loved one --male or female-- NOT be involved in life-threatening danger!) That can complicate a writer's task, but I think it actually also has the possibility of a lot of inherently interesting family dynamics that you wouldn't have if the lady was, say, a clerk at Dairy Queen.

There are actually a number of fictional fighting ladies who have at least one living parent (and possibly siblings), and who have strong ties to their birth families, even if they don't live at home. Julienne Lloyd's Elizabeth Ashton (Operation Angelica), David Weber's Honor Harrington, Billy Wong's Iron Rose, and the title character of Clive Lee's Coral Hare: Atomic Agent come to mind. Seeley James' Pia Sabel has a close relationship to her dad (the founder of Sabel Security). Suzanne Arruda's Jade del Cameron is closer to her dad than to her mom (who'd like her to be much more "proper" in her behavior), but her strained though loving relationship with the latter is actually at center stage in The Serpent's Daughter. And though she's an orphan (and an "emancipated minor" at 17), K. W. Jeter's Kim Oh is the loving and committed caregiver for her wheelchair-bound younger brother; her caring Big Sister relationship to Donnie, for me, is one the most winsome things about her.

Though I've tried, I can't think of any action heroine novels that I've personally read where the leading lady was married to start with. However, a few writers follow their heroine on into marriage and show her continuing to operate on the butt-kicking level after she has a spouse (and in some cases kids). That's true in Poul Anderson's Operation Chaos, for instance, and in Mark Cooper's "How I Met Your Mother" story cycle. I know that the Iron Rose marries and has at least one child in the later books of that series (though I haven't read that far myself). And all three of the deadly ladies of Eric Flint's 1632 are married or engaged by the time the book ends (and one is pregnant); two of them actually do all or most of their mayhem-inflicting after they've tied the knot.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I've read several books devolving around an agent of some agency (FBI usually it seems) who's a single mother. She generally struggles with guilt over her lack of time with her kids. She usually has lost her husband (in a couple of books the husband had also been an agent and been killed). Usually at some point her children come under threat because of her job.

For a while I began to think that like 95% of FBI Special Agents were single mothers...

[E.G.]

Werner makes several interesting points.

The 'lone gunslinger' (male or female) is a powerful and enduring archetype for many reasons. Acquiring a family is often part of the journey - the reward of enduring isolation and danger with courage and honor.

I do like the stories that change up the archetype - Werner mentions many who have families - I don't know all the references but Honor Harrington has the benefit of being a spaceship captain. A lone gunslinger with a family far far away.

Also, as Werner points out, while the lone gunslinger/action heroine doesn't start out married, it does happen that she finds love and marries while retaining her action heroine status. One of my favorite action heroines in the lone gunslinger mold is Eve Dallas in the In Death series who meets and marries Roarke as part of the series.

For Mike's point, it's hard to have a 'long gunslinger' in her 30s or 40s who is not married without some kind of explanation. Divorce is common in romance novels, but its trickier in action stories - the the pesky ex is floating around.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

In the Will Robie books Jessica Reel is pretty much a co-protagonist. The 2 of them are (basically) assassins of that age and the story dances around attachments (they both keep track of the girl Robie met in the first book).

I think the we have a dearth of writers writing female action characters. I can see where they could be harder to write in some ways at least for male writers.

[Werner]

I've just created a new thread devoted to action heroines and family relationships, at this link: www.goodreads.com/topic/show/18060059... , and copied-and-pasted my comment in message 552 there. (At least for now, I'll leave it up here as well, so the following discussion makes sense.) Others who've posted here about this can copy-and-paste their comments there (if you want to do that but don't know how, I can do it for you), or leave them here, or both. But let's continue the discussion on the new thread.

[Lance]

It's not just action heroines -- most action heroes I can think of don't have close family onstage.

There are so many tortured loners out there that it's really become cliche. As Werner noted, it makes the author's life easier. He doesn't have to deal with pesky family members or many of the associated problems that happen in the real world.

Still, it's easy to grow tired of the trope. I gave the heroes in both my thrillers full extended families; the heroine in my second book also had an intact nuclear family. I think it injected a bit of the real world into them.

[Jon]

E.G., in the later Honor Harrington books she does get married (very non-tradition marriage, by the way) and - I hope memory serves me right - has kids. The books had begun to degenerate into wordy mush by that point.

[E.G.]

Jon wrote: "E.G., in the later Honor Harrington books she does get married (very non-tradition marriage, by the way) and - I hope memory serves me right - has kids. The books had begun to degenerate into wordy..."

I really liked Honor's character - I got overwhelmed at the technobabble around the weapons and propulsion systems. So I never went past book 1.

I know there is a huge audience for the details of 'advanced technology.' For me, it's kind of pointless. It's overcome by science and technology almost as soon as it's published.

[Jon]

E.G., even though I'm male, I simply skipped through pages of Weber's technobabble. The details do help give depth to the imaginary world he paints, but ... too much is too much. Weber is an excellent example of why I read so many books written by women. Gizmos get dated; love doesn't. Nor does have kids and spouses and grandparents in failing health.

By contrast, there is little to no detail on how the average citizen on one of the worlds live. Like Switzerland in 2010 or like England in 1700's.

[E.G.]

Jon wrote: "By contrast, there is little to no detail on how the average citizen on one of the worlds live. Like Switzerland in 2010 or like England in 1700's. ..."

I think that's one of the reasons I like the Eve Dallas books (near future NYC) - there is a lot of rich detail on daily living, from the even more hideous traffic to the food. Space prisons and resorts on the moon just add to the fun.

[Jon]

Ok, I've found a new-to-me space opera series about action heroines. In each of the two (I hope there will be more) books aliens have kidnapped a human female (and a bunch of random animals, such as macaws and sheep) and hauled them off to a confederation of nations / systems of planets as just another animal.

Low (pun intended) and behold, the women figure out how to make things happen. While good looking alien men are helpful, I reckon that most will agree that the women's success has most to do with their own gumption. That, an a surprising ally that the women win with ... (view spoiler)[ empathy. (hide spoiler)]

See: Michelle Diener's Dark Horse and Dark Deeds,

Both are on KU.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Have we mentioned The Pillars of Reality series ? I just read the first and have the second warming up in the bull-pin. It's pretty good and the heroine is pretty much the lead (view spoiler)[She seems to be the subject of a prophecy (hide spoiler)]. The male mage and she are sort of co- protagonists but I think she'll be the lead.

[E.G.]

Jon wrote: "Ok, I've found a new-to-me space opera series about action heroines. In each of the two (I hope there will be more) books aliens have kidnapped a human female (and a bunch of random animals, such a..."

Those look good. They are currently Kindle only, so I'll have to wait. Added to TBR.

[E.G.]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Have we mentioned The Pillars of Reality series ? I just read the first and have the second warming up in the bull-pin. It's pretty good and the heroine is pretty much the lead [spoilers removed]. ..."

I'm not familiar with those. From the blurb, it looks like steampunk meets fantasy (magic).

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Not really, though I think Steam Punk fans would be alright with it. It's a magic vs. tech sort of plot line. There is a steam engine in it...but other technologies to.

I guess I'm going that way as so far I've not found an actual Steam Punk novel I've liked. LOL

[Jon]

I don't get the fascination of steam-punk. As I see it, the genre is simply another form of alternative history. What am I missing?

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Sometimes I think it could be. Of course at other times the world is pretty much fantasy in it's own world.

I just tried to read another and am laying it aside. Somehow I just never seem to find one I can get into.

[E.G.]

On a recommendation, I checked out a 'steampunk' series a while ago that wasn't bad. But it probably wouldn't classify as pure steampunk either - vampires and werewolves.

Definitely 'alternate' history' - the British Empire never fell and wasn't particularly benevolent. I gave it 4-stars at the time because it seemed so unusual. Today I'd give it three. Oh, and Lady Jessica, Monster Hunter definitely counts as an Action Heroine which is why I picked it up in the first place.

My review, for what it's worth: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Werner]

"Steampunk" does seem to me like it would be a form of alternate world/history fiction --and since I like the alternate-world conceit, I find the steampunk idea potentially intriguing. But so far, I haven't really read anything in that vein. I have both Gail Carriger's Soulless and Etiquette & Espionage buried somewhere in my physical TBR mountain range; but I'm already juggling so many unfinished series right now that I'm hesitant to start another one!

[E.G.]

Werner wrote: ""Steampunk" does seem to me like it would be a form of alternate world/history fiction --and since I like the alternate-world conceit, I find the steampunk idea potentially intriguing. But so far, ..."

If I run across a decent stand alone with a good Action Heroine, I'll make note. Right now I'm doing a Scifi read-for-review for my friend Emma's Review Group. So that's four books between now and June that may or may not have action heroines, but won't qualify as steampunk.

[Werner]

E.G. wrote: "If I run across a decent stand alone with a good Action Heroine, I'll make note." Thanks, E.G.!

[Sadie]

I've just finished Ghosts of Tsavo. The main character is a Paranormal Investigator in Nairobi and it reads very much like The Parasol Protectorate series.

Edit: Oh, and it's free. Amazon has it and on her website you can get other formats if you sign up for the monthly newsletter.

[Mervi]

I've read a few steampunk books and I'll recommend Cherie Priest's Boneshaker and Pip Ballantine & Tee Morris' Phoenix Rising.

Boneshaker is fantasy because it has zombies and an alternative history because the US civil war has gone on far longer than it did. The main character is a single mother whose son goes missing into a city full of zombies. So she goes after him, alone. It's first in a series (Clockwork Century) but each book and novella has a different main character and set in a different city. Most of the other books also have female main characters who are capable of taking care of themselves.

Phoenix Rising is the first in the Ministery of Peculiar Occurances series, set in London. Agent Eliza Braun wears pistols under her petticoats and enjoys blowing things up while her partner Wellington Books would rather consult books. Very fun and funny series. I actually liked the second book (The Janus Affair) better than the first.

And of course there's the Girl Genius comic which is available for free on-line and in printed collected editions. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

[Werner]

Mervi, I have Phoenix Rising on my to-read shelf (and on my BookMooch wishlist). I'd almost forgotten about that one; thanks for reminding me!

[Werner]

As a grade school kid, I read a book titled Dave Dawson on the Russian Front, by R. Sidney Bowen, part of a series of World War II action adventure yarns written for kids. It's not great literature; but one reason I remembered it as well as I did is that the hero and his sidekick are greatly assisted in their derring-do by one Senior Lt. Nasha Petrovsky, who's one of the more lethal ladies I've encountered in fiction, and who made quite an impression on me. :-) But why, you ask, is a book I read in (I think) 1962 relevant to a "currently reading" thread?

For the past couple of years, ever since I was invited to review books for the Girls With Guns website, I've been recycling my Goodreads reviews of action heroine books for that site; but I didn't have that many to start with, and by now I'm down to the bottom of the barrel. Back in 2008, I did a review of this book from memory, which suffices for Goodreads (where we're basically just sharing our nonprofessional reactions to what we've read). But to do a serious review, I knew I couldn't just recycle the latter one --it's too defective from imperfect memory. It's going to take a reread of the book, and from a grown-up perspective; so that's what I'm doing now. (Talk about a "blast from the past!" :-) )

[Jon]

Werner, looks like you're going to have to step up you AH book reading?

[Jon]

I'm enjoying a recently republished book from noted fantasy author Tanya Huff: Fifth Quarter . The action heroine is a young woman, with a twin brother. Together, they were raised to be assassins for the military. They are very good at their trade until ... they encounter a mark with a few unusual (and a bit paranormal) heritage. Adventures follows. I haven't finished so no review yet.

[Jon]

Apparently I'm the only one surrounded by action heroines at the moment with time enough to mention them here:

Aurelia is an AH in this 5th in the series of Roma Nova books by Alison Morton: INSURRECTIO

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... Caution, this book doesn't finish Aurelia's actions on behalf of her country.

[Werner]

Jon, just now, I moved your message 579 to the "General chit-chat" thread, where I thought it would fit better. Hope you don't mind!

Jon wrote: "Werner, looks like you're going to have to step up you AH book reading?"

I didn't mean to ignore your comment --I was going to reply to it, and actually thought I had, until I discovered this evening that I didn't. Because of the current challenge we have going, I have actually stepped up my AH reading a bit; the computer program says I'm two books ahead of schedule at this point.

Yesterday, I started reading , by our own Zee Monodee, on my Kindle app; I'd picked up a trial copy of the e-book edition earlier this year, when it was being offered for free. And tomorrow, I'll start on Modesty Blaise in paperback format, joining in on our common read this month. That one has been on my to-read shelf forever, so I'm looking forward to it!

[Robin]

Jon wrote: "I'm enjoying a recently republished book from noted fantasy author Tanya Huff: Fifth Quarter . The action heroine is a young woman, with a twin brother..."

Don't know if this book has all ready been discussed, haven't been on GR for a couple of years now and I can't be bothered reading through all of the previous comments. but, doesn't she have a military scifi action heroine as well. If I remember correctly it's Valor's Choice

[Werner]

Robin, welcome back to Goodreads; you've been missed!

[Jon]

Robin, I'm new as a co-moderator so I don't personally remember if talented author Tanya Huff's Valor series books have been discussed. You are correct that they are excellent and I recommend them to anyone who might stumble across this thread. I've just now added them to our bookshelves.

[Werner]

Robin and Jon, a helpful Goodreads feature is the "search discussion posts" function, which you can find near the top of any page on the discussion board (on the right side, as you face the screen). Any search you enter searches ALL of the group's discussion threads, not only the one you're currently on.)

the search I did for Tanya Huff disclosed that yes, that series has been mentioned (and praised) in some of our previous posts. It's actually the Confederation series (of which Valor's Choice is the first book), featuring female soldier Sgt. Torin Kerr.

[Jon]

Another excellent writer of fantasy/Sci-Fi is Lois McMaster Bujold, author of, among other series, the Miles Vorkisgan books, such as: The Vor Game , and Barrayar .

What I discovered a couple days ago is an earlier series by her, The Sharing Knife tales. , , , and .

It features a male protagonist who is part of a group of people (Lakewalkers) who keep to themselves and use magic imbued knifes (and other talents) to hunt monsters who pray on them and rest of the world's population, derisively known as "farmers." The farmers have lots of misconceptions and distrust of the Lakewalkers.

The female lead ends up using one of the knives in a way that should make her at least an honorary member of the AH club. Plus, the books feature many Lakewalker women who wield weapons and lead troops, patrols and companies.

Warning: there is some explicit sex in both of the books I've read so-far. However, it isn't written as erotica. In fact, it seems very realistic in that neither person is gifted or all knowing as to sex, so they happily fumble about.

I'm going to add book 1 to our bookshelves and see if the heroine continues to rate AH status as I read along.

[E.G.]

Thanks, Jon. Added Barrayar to my TBR.

[E.G.]

Finished , with a nice addition to the action-heroine pantheon with Hickory Lace.

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Mervi]

The Sharing Knife series is actually Bujold's most recent series, not an earlier work. She's written the three most recent Vorkosigan books afterwards.

[Werner]

Back in 2009, an Internet friend and fellow action heroine fan, who's not on Goodreads, recommended a book to me: The Queen of the South (2003) by the much-hyped Spanish author Arturo Perez-Reverte (though the title character is probably more of an anti-heroine than a heroine). I tried it and read three chapters (and skimmed the ending), but didn't get into it and relegated it to my "started-not-finished" shelf. But I've been told by at least one person that I didn't give it a fair chance; and there may (or may not) be some merit to that idea. I'm about to find out. :-)

The novel was originally written in Spanish, and more recently a Spanish-language telenovela (basically a long miniseries) has been adapted from it, and is now available on Netflix. On the Girls With Guns site where I occasionally contribute book reviews, plans are underway to review the latter, as well as some other telenovelas with action oriented female leads. Since it would clearly be constructive to have a review of the original book there as well, I've undertaken to give it another try; and this time I'll read the whole thing, so I can judge it fairly in its entirety.

[Jon]

Thanks, Mervi, for the info on the Bujold series. It makes me wonder how many recent works by authors I enjoy I haven't noticed.

Part of me hopes there are many, for obvious reasons. The other part of me, the part that worries about any real or perceived declines in cognitive function, is sad. ; )

[Angela]

Jon wrote: "Another excellent writer of fantasy/Sci-Fi is Lois McMaster Bujold, author of, among other series, the Miles Vorkisgan books, such as: The Vor Game [bookcover:The Vor ..."

I've read every one of her books more than once! I adore her character Cordelia; mostly because her personality is much like mine.

Reading a book of hers for the third or fourth time is like visiting my best friend. Every page is still delighting.

There's a fan page with trivia and such: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

[J.S.]

Hi! Jon said it would be okay to post here - this is my last post about my own book. Next time you hear from me I won't be bleating on, I promise!

My debut novel, Winter Smith: London's Burning is a zombie apocalypse novel set in London, that features a female lead and strong female characters. It is the first in the series, and I plan to introduce a key, strong female lead in the second. I really like writing female leads, as I want to challenge what has become 'normal' and stale. I was inspired to create a strong lead after growing up with Lara Croft, and seeing novels like Alice in Wonderland.

Winter Smith is a socialite from Watford, who hates her upbringing. She hates the lifestyle. When the zombie apocalypse hits, she loses everything and needs to survive.

Then Winter meets Violet Black, a blunt, selfish and rude character who you either love or you hate. I love her, as do a few others and she is one of my favourite characters to write. If you read it, you see why she's so flawed, and why she has her defences up.

If you like novels with a strong female lead, strong female characters and a gripping plot then you will like the Winter Smith series, the second of which I am writing now. I hope that you can consider it for your own reading lists.

It's available on Amazon in both ebook and paperback format.

Here is the synopsis:

A story of survival trust and fear. The first in the series, Winter Smith is ripped from a rich lifestyle and forced to survive. The zombie virus has torn through the world, and Winter and a group of survivors must get to the Thames. Winter deals with the loss of her parents, the harsh reality of promised safety, and learns that not everyone can be trusted...

Thank you!
Jack

[Mervi]

Jon wrote: "It makes me wonder how many recent works by authors I enjoy I haven't noticed. Part of me hopes there are many, for obvious reasons."

I agree! It's always great to notice new books by favorite authors. (Bujold's newest story is the fantasy novella Penric's Demon. Ebook only so far.)

[Jon]

J.S., your plot sounds very good. My only hang-up is entirely personal: I've never been able to enjoy a zombie book. I can easily imagine most paranormal types, but not zombies. Perhaps because I associate them with the horror genre, which I've never liked. My wife and daughter go to the horror movies and leave me home to read something with a HEA. ; )

Apparently there is a big audience for zombies, so a crisp tale should meet with eager fans.

[E.G.]

@JS - what Jon said. Good luck, sounds hugely marketable. Personally, Zombies = ew.

*I will mention it to those who are into the zombie*

[Jon]

I've just downloaded and started a book about, of all things, a gecko shifter. She appeared briefly in early books in the series:

Dragon's Luck, . Also, Magic Bites, , although I haven't started to read it.

[E.G.]

Jon wrote: "I've just downloaded and started a book about, of all things, a gecko shifter. She appeared briefly in early books in the series:

Dragon's Luck, ...."

The gecko shifter rocks! *must replace antique iPad. must get kindle app*

[Werner]

Interestingly, the (traditional) concept of zombies, corpses animated by a voodoo practitioner and subservient to his/her will, is rooted in Afro-Caribbean folklore, and has a long history. (For instance, the 20th-century Haitian dictator "Papa Doc" Duvalier cultivated a widespread belief in his power to command zombies.) The whole "zombie apocalypse" sub-genre (which I personally don't get into either), with its tropes of a contagious zombie virus spread by biting and of zombies as rotting, un-dead predators roaming in hordes and looking for human brains to eat, was the creation of scriptwriters George Romero and John Russo in the 1968 movie The Night of the Living Dead.

Ever since 1968, of course, the Romero/Russo zombie model has come to completely define pop-cultural perceptions of what the term "zombie" means, and has been riffed off of (and sometimes just ripped off) in countless books and movies. The very real literary potential of the traditional zombie mythos, in contrast, hasn't been much explored in the English-language fiction of the supernatural, with some exceptions like Voodoo Moon by Wendy Corsi Staub.

[Jon]

Wow, something intelligent written about Zombies and it comes from our very own Werner. I've never been a reader or watcher of horror, so I come by my dislike honestly I would argue.

Now, if the Donald ... oops, not going there.

[Jon]

Christopher Nuttall, author of a couple of good Sci-Fi series that do not feature women as action heroines or even leading characters, has a YA fantasy series that both is well enough written to hold the interest of adults and features an action heroine.

The Schooled in Magic series features Emily, a young woman who is snatched from Earth (by mistake) by a ogre and deposited on a world with technology approximating the 1700's and filled with magic. She ends up at a school, one of only 5 in that world, for young people (16 to 23 or so) learning to use their magic powers.

In each book, as she moves through her years at the school, she must fight for her life (and usually those of others) while making ethical and emotional choices.

The series starts with: Schooled in Magic ; I've just finished Infinite Regress, . This is a series that should be read in order.