The Sword and Laser discussion
The Thread in Which We Suggest Books for Future Consideration
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Kris
(last edited Dec 08, 2010 08:46PM)
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Dec 08, 2010 08:46PM
I am Reading Jack McDevitt newest called Echo good hard scifi...if you like Ian Banks you would like his stories....
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I would recommend something from the Geoddesy series by Piers Anthony. My favorite is Shame of Man, but Isle of Woman is pretty good too.
I just finished judging a debate from a freshman seminar class discussing whether or not Mars should be terraformed, and they all had to read Red Mars in preparation. It is hard science and planets but I think it would be an interesting read with a lot of discussion. I want to read it, but not without you guys!
I would vote for The Player of Games although Old Man's War would be nice too since I started reading it last night :)
Fire Fire Fire Upon the Deep (I miss Beavis). This is right up there with Neuromancer and Snow Crash as far as brilliant anticipation of the internet from the 80s, bettter tho cause its hard sci fi set in bitchin interstellar stage. And what a cool monster the blight is... And oh yeah have you ever seen aliens as original as the tines. I would describe them in detail but figuring them out is one of the coolest parts of the story. You guys made my day letting me know there is a sequel, we must do Fire before oct, at least we have time.
Jenny wrote: "they all had to read Red Mars in preparation. It is hard scien..."That happens to be my favorite book, and definitely worth a read. It's the start of a trilogy, but absolutely stands on its own as a complete story. I'd be down for a third read-through, and it would give me an excuse to buy it again for the ol' Kindle. :)
Red Mars was free on the kindle when i bought mine. Should keep checking their free lists, it's interesting what they offer from time to time.
Definitely recommend anything by Jasper Fforde - not sure if it's sci-fi or fantasy in the strictest sense, but certainly along those lines.I'd go for the Thursday Next series - the first book being The Eyre Affair which isn't my favourite but sets up the series well. The plot is pretty hard to describe but an alternate universe in which fiction has upmost importance, and literature crimes need to be fought.
As I said, it's not my favourite and it has the feel of a rookie author, but the series is the best thing I've ever read.
Personal I'd start with Fforde's Nursery Crimes series. Enjoyed The Fourth Bear.
Snokat wrote: "Red Mars was free on the kindle when i bought mine. Should keep checking their free lists, it's interesting what they offer from time to time."It doesn't have long boring science parts?
A couple of days ago I suggested Old Man's War, but after finishing it (I couldn't put it down) it's too similar to the recent choice Starship Troopers. In fact, I think this would have been a much better choice than Starship Troopers.
Tamahome wrote: "Snokat wrote: "Red Mars was free on the kindle when i bought mine. Should keep checking their free lists, it's interesting what they offer from time to time."It doesn't have long boring science parts? "
Not sure, it probably does, but that adds to the realism, perhaps. :) And it might be refreshing to read something with hard science for science fiction. (I can't believe I'm suggesting that, haha!)
I'd echo the call for *any* Banks book. The Player of Games is probably ideal for S&L because it's shorter, but I've just finished Iain M. Banks's latest Surface Detail and loved it.I think this would be a great way to introduce people to the series. Epic Space Opera is really what Banks is about, and this really succeeds. Great range of characters.
Panamajack wrote: "I'd echo the call for *any* Banks book ..."Well, if it's *any* Banks book, let's go withThe Wasp Factory. That could be almost a much fun as getting people to read Dhalgren.
Alotor wrote: "I would like to recommend Good Omens. All I have to say is this: Terry Pratchett + Neil Gaiman + end of the world = tons of fun."I second that. A cracking read and it typical Pratchett and Gaiman style it makes you think too.
Sean wrote: "That could be almost a much fun as getting people to read Dhalgren"I suggest we start em on Nova and then work our way up.
Sean wrote: "Well, if it's *any* Banks book, let's go withThe Wasp Factory. That could be almost a much fun as getting people to read Dhalgren."
Delany has some other mainstream books that make Dhalgren look like a children's book.
Tamahome wrote: "Delany has some other mainstream books that make Dhalgren look like a children's book."There's Ciron, right, but other than that what? Dhalgren seems like a pretty decent compliment to Heavenly Breakfast and Time Square.
My favorite rotates between the first Neveryon book and Stars in My Pocket. But, heck, I love em all.
Panamajack wrote: "I'd echo the call for *any* Banks book. The Player of Games is probably ideal for S&L Ditto
A lot of good suggestions but I'd like to suggest Paulo Bacigalupi's The Windup Girl. This story is rather bleak in the spirit of Blade Runner but probably most realistically extrapolates the future based on our present course. I found it a tough read getting started but it was well worth slogging through the Thai language and cultural references. Just brilliant a worthy of it's recent Hugo award.
Joe wrote: "A lot of good suggestions but I'd like to suggest Paulo Bacigalupi's The Windup Girl. This story is rather bleak in the spirit of Blade Runner but probably most realistically extrapolates the futur..."We read that a few books back. :) (Good suggestion)
Oh, sorry. I haven't been following this group until recently. How about the other Hugo winning novel last year tying with The Windup Girl...the City and the City. I haven't started that yet.
Veronica and Tom (and everyone else who has read it) keep talking about The Name of the Wind. Maybe that could be our next fantasy read?The podcast from Dec. 22ish mentioned The Magicians. I wanted to vote against it, I know, cheeky. Please see my review here. I really wanted to like it, I really did, but it was a huge disappointment in the end. (Bad books shouldn't have such enticing covers!)
I have not listened to the podcast yet from Dec. 22nd but I am curious if you all discussed the Yu book already? The podcast before had mentioned taking it past the holidays so I am curious what is going on with that. Also, are talking about picking a fantasy book this next month for January?
Adam wrote: "I have not listened to the podcast yet from Dec. 22nd but I am curious if you all discussed the Yu book already? The podcast before had mentioned taking it past the holidays so I am curious what i..."They kicked off the book but there aren't any spoilers in the podcast.
I agree with Jenny about the Magicians -- that was one of my "throw the book across the room" nominations -- then I gave it to my daughter who actually did throw it across the room.I've read The Name of the Wind and would be interested in reading the group's reaction to it. I *never* thought about throwing it anyplace.
Paul wrote: "I agree with Jenny about the Magicians -- that was one of my "throw the book across the room" nominations -- then I gave it to my daughter who actually did throw it across the room."I thought it was pretty bad too.
Okay so I recently read Ursula K. Le Guin's "The Lathe of Heaven," and it was a mind-blowingly amazing read. I would recommend it to anyone, and not jut science fiction fans. She is extraordinary and it is an extraordinary novel.
Mod
terpkristin wrote: "Wow, this thread has taken off. Funny, when I originally was thinking about it, I wasn't thinking people would be seconding (or 3rding or 4thing...) recommendations, more just creating a list of b..."
Snokat wrote: "The Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold is one of my all-time favorite books..."Lois McMaster Bujold's Young Miles (among others in the Vorkosigan series) is free, available here. It's on me ol' "to read" list, and free is a good price for the group.
And after your glowing recommendation, Chalion's on that list, as well.
Terry Pratchett seems to have been mentioned a lot in the recent podcasts, therefore might I suggest Guards! Guards! It is one of the early Disc World books and introduces possibly the best ensemble of characters in the Disc world universe, with Captain Vimes, recruit Carrot, Sergeant Colon and last and definitely least the inestimable Corporal Nobbs and of course their ever present antagonist the inimicable Havelock Vetinari Patrician of the fabled city of Ankh-Morpork. This book contains fun, merriment and general mayhem in equal measure and is the first in a series of books within the Disc world universe that centre around Vimes and the city guard.
I want to throw in my vote for Good Omens for the next Sword book. I am a huge Terry Pratchett fan and had owned and read all but two of his novels, Good Omens being one of them (the other being The Truth), both of which I got for Christmas.I've been listening to S&L since Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, but am yet to read a book with the group, so this would be a perfect opportunity for me to join in.
I adore D.M. Cornish's The Foundling's Tale (formerly known as Monster's Blood Tattoo) series, which includes the books Foundling, Lamplighter and Factotum. It has oft-been described as Dickens-like tale of an orphan's through through an 18th-century-like, biopunk world...with monsters.Biopunk? Think steampunk. But instead of gears, steam, and blimps...technology based on plants, vat-grown tissue, surgical enhancements, and potions.
There is so much I loved about these books. And much is hard to put into words. One thing was it's texture. And by that, I not only mean the objects, surfaces in this world, but the institutions, culture, language, and tech. It just feels, sounds, and looks good in my mind. Though the plot is great, for me, it's really the world that Cornish has created that enchanted me. It is so thick with potential that I hope he either writes a hundred books, or finds a way to expand it to other writers and creative platforms, as has been done with Star Trek, Star Wars, D&D, etc.
This book is perfect if you like....
TECH: If you like clockpunk, steampunk, or cyber punk. Tech is tech.
MINUTIAE: Do you like reading all the little text in a Chris Ware graphic novel or a Dave Eggars' early McSweeney's issues? Cornish's books include a massive, mostly-for-fun glossary and gorgeous, detailed illustrations...by the author!
MADE UP WORDS: Did you enjoy all the whimsical names J.K. Rowling invented for her Potter universe? These books have a TON!
DESIGN: These books just look and feel wonderful. The size and proportion of a 19th-century novel. Beautiful covers with sublime color palettes and delicious paper stock.
18TH & 19TH CENTURIES: Like I said, think Dickens. Also, the movies Amadeus, Immortal Beloved, and Glory. Or the books Bartleby the Scrivener and Frankenstein. Lots of bookkeeping done in ledgers. Powdered wigs, tricornered hats, muskets and pale-faced bureaucrats.
MONSTERS: Of course.
I would like to suggest either "The Hunger Games" by Suzanne Collins (I know this is the first part of a trilogy, but it stands up on its own) or "Shade's Children" by Garth Nix (this universe is not as fleshed out as I would have liked, but the ambiance is excellent).
Sean wrote: "Jlawrence wrote: "I'd also really like to re-read Vernor Vinge's fascinating A Fire upon the Deep. I got the annotated version that has all his world-building notes, that'd be a real treat."Did..."
I'm reading A Fire upon the Deep now. It is a bit weighty, but a fast read. Maybe we should read Rainbows End as an introduction to Vinge. It was a quick read, but a great book.
Joe wrote: "A lot of good suggestions but I'd like to suggest Paulo Bacigalupi's The Windup Girl. This story is rather bleak in the spirit of Blade Runner but probably most realistically extrapolates the futur..."We did The Windup Girl about 5 books back.
Tom wrote: "Maybe we should read Rainbows End as an introduction to Vinge. It was a quick read, but a great book..."Even if we don't do it for the group, I'd really like to hear (host) Tom's comments on it. Everything in the book feels like an episode of Tech News Today from five years in the future.
I never finished that one. I only liked the obnoxious poet guy.
So hey. I still think we should read Rothfuss for one of our picks, because I'm certain he'd do an interview. Why do I think this? In this interview, he mentions that one of his highlights at the con was hanging out with the "glory of Veronica Belmont." Something like that. Teehee!
Altered Carbon has been a great read!
(I was backed up on the past 3 S&L episodes, so I realize this topic is from before Christmas, but I still feel the need to share this.)At first, I was deeply shocked to see very strong bad opinions of The Magicians in all the discussions! Then I gave it another second to think about it, and it made complete sense.
However, I will still say that The Magicians is the best book I have read all year, if not the best contemporary book I have read in my entire life. I see how it is not accessible to everyone, but I'd like to lay out my brief review here in case it changes the mind of someone on the fence as to whether or not to read it.
The Magicians is a book written by a depressed author (I mean this clinically, check out his bio) about depressed characters for depressed or dissatisfied readers.
As a depressed person myself, I have often fantasized what it would be like to be able to end up in Hogwarts or Narnia, or any of the million other fantasy worlds I like to spend my literary time in. Imagine how much more wonderful your life would be if you could just fight with Peter and Lucy or pull a prank with Fred and George.
But the point of The Magicians is that this escape fantasy is nothing but a fantasy. A boy ends up in "Hogwarts" only to realize that it's just as bad as the real world, and eventually manages to get into "Narnia" which becomes even worse. It's like the wonderful parts of those worlds are escalated, but the gritty, horrible, awful parts are escalated to an even level.
Please forgive the following quote, as it is three paragraphs long. But this quote, spoken by the headmaster of "Hogwarts" near the graduation of the characters is what sold the book to me:
--
"I have a little theory that I'd like to air here, if I may. What is it that you think makes you magicians?" More silence. Fogg was well into rhetorical-question territory now anyway. He spoke more softly. "Is it because you are intelligent? Is it because you are brave and good? Is is because you're special?
Maybe. Who knows. But I'll tell you something: I think you're magicians because you're unhappy. A magician is strong because he feels pain. He feels the difference between what the world is and what he would make of it. Or what did you think that stuff in your chest was? A magician is strong because he hurts more than others. His wound is his strength.
Most people carry that pain around inside them their whole lives, until they kill the pain by other means, or until it kills them. But you, my friends, you found another way: a way to use the pain. To burn it as fuel, for light and warmth. You have learned to break the world that has tried to break you."
--
I found parts of this book deeply and actively depressing. I read it in a night, starting it at about 8 PM, and ending it at about 6 AM. I would read it in bursts, desperately sucking up everything I could until it became too much for me to bear. Many of the characters are deeply unlikeable, and they are often not relatable. Unless you are depressed, in which case the book is like a mirror you're scared to look into, but are unable to look away from.
The ending comes fast and furious and fiercely, and you wonder how all the plot threads will be tied together. I won't explain it, but I will tell you that everything is not wonderful. Everything does not get solved, and the world does not make sense at the end of the story. Which, in my mind, is how it should be. Escape fantasies like Harry Potter and Narnia trick us into believing that the world is beautiful and wonderful. Sometimes, it's good to remember that it's not.
This is the first book I've read, possibly since I was diagnosed with my depression several years ago, that really made me think. I've been surrounding myself with media, whether it be books or television or movies, that didn't require me to think (no matter how much I liked them).
This made me think about the effect my childhood books had on my current life, why I love science fiction and fantasy so much today, what it means to live with a mental illness, what it means to live in a flawed world, and what we can possibly do to cope with all of those things.
Please, I beg of you, read this book. The book is broken up into three or four parts, and each has a very distinct style. If you've tried to read it in the past and gave up, try again. Once you get far enough, you'll get to another part you like better. And if you aren't sure if you will like it -- the parts about Narnia are so wonderful, and beautiful, and incredible. If you have ever liked The Chronicles of Narnia, you will love the last part of the book.
I have re-written this post several times, and even knowing that the brevity is the soul of wit and understanding, I still have too many words. Please understand that the huge amount of words here is because I can't possibly express how much I loved this book and what it means to me. It really was that wonderful.
Meggie wrote: "(I was backed up on the past 3 S&L episodes, so I realize this topic is from before Christmas, but I still feel the need to share this.)At first, I was deeply shocked to see very strong bad opini..."
Meggie, thanks for sharing this. I can see why it meant so much to you, and it is amazing when you can find a book that connects on that deep of a level.
Actually, I read a recent a blog post by Catherynne Valente that was about the same thing.
Meggie wrote: "(I was backed up on the past 3 S&L episodes, so I realize this topic is from before Christmas, but I still feel the need to share this.)At first, I was deeply shocked to see very strong bad opini..."
Meggie, if you make that your official review, I'll 'like' it.
Meggie, thanks so much for the post. You've reminded me that, as easy as it is to make snarkly comments about something folks are reading (or listening to), both writing and reading are often deep and personal. I know from some of my loves in music that something that strikes a strong positive chord in me can easily strike a strong negative cord in other people. It's the price of loving something that is powerful enough to have an impact. The only alternative is that we limit ourselves to grooving on the bland.
I'll have to add The Magicians to my list.
Sean wrote: "Since we're going with lighter fare for January, I wouldn't mind maybe hitting Fire Upon The Deep by Vinge for February. Or even Lies Of Locke Lamora. I can see both books on my shelves from here, ..."The Lies of Locke Lamora is highly recommended. Really good balance of humour and adventure.
How can I get one those Green Lantern shirts please?
Al wrote: "Meggie, thanks so much for the post. You've reminded me that, as easy as it is to make snarkly comments about something folks are reading (or listening to), both writing and reading are often dee..."
Yes thanks Meggie for reminding me so vividly how deeply affecting well written books can be. I will try Magicians because of your heartfelt posting.
I agree with a lot of these recent posts. I'm glad that Meggie posted how The Magicians impacted her...I was still planning on reading it, even though it got a lot of "bad press" here, but your post probably bumped up its priority.
+1 for Iain Banks . . . The one I haven't read that's often said to be his best is "Use of Weapons." But definitely one of the early Culture books.
Another vote for Iain M. Banks. I loved Player of Games(of course, that means I've already read it.) I consider him one of the top 5 SF writers alive, for both the scope of his imagination and the quality of his prose.
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
Downbelow Station (other topics)The Curse of Chalion (other topics)
Young Miles (other topics)
Downbelow Station (other topics)
Hyperion (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Lois McMaster Bujold (other topics)C.J. Cherryh (other topics)
D.M. Cornish (other topics)
Dave Eggers (other topics)
Chris Ware (other topics)
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