Outlander Series discussion
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Is this a clue to the ghost?
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Brizo, the thought of the soul moving on to different bodies is intriguing. Not unlike the belief of reincarnation, but retaining all the souls memories and experiences. And I would like to embrace the idea that there is that type of immortal too.My understanding of an immortal as taken from books and movies, is that immortals don't age. And basically stay the same as they were when they became immortal. Like MrsBrooks stated. Which could of course be good or bad.
Donna wrote: "Just re-reading DoA and at the end of Chapter 22, and Jaime is telling Claire about a dream he just had about Brianna - (quote follows)"I did wonder..." Jaime hesitated for a moment. "Has she a bi..."
I know there is a lot of discussion out there regarding this and Jamie's ability to "see" these things. I agree Donna. He must be able to transcend time in some way. I'm thinking astral travel?
What other books are there regarding souls transcending time to find eachother?
I know I'm coming late to the party, but the ghost question has taken hold of me. I think Jamie definitely can transcend time...whether that be as a ghost, an astral projection, or something else I'm not sure...but I'm pretty sure he's *something* paranormal. Firstly, he has an odd sense of knowing what Claire is thinking. Maybe its reading her body language as closely as she reads his...or maybe its something more. Secondly, we have the ghost that appears in book #1. Another example came to me as I read book #3. The first time Claire and Frank have some kind of sex after her return is when they have the big fight and later she nurses Bree. In the nursery, frank takes the pump from her. His hand moves to her breast as if its moving of its own will (Frank didn't choose to move it). He begins taking her breast and sucking milk and she puts her hand behind his head and says "harder." She felt hazy, from presumable fatigue...but maybe its something more? In a different part of the story, while in prison, Jamie dreams of Claire...having sex at Lollybroch while she's pregnant with Bree. But, then he takes her breast and tastes milk and she says "harder" while putting her hand behind his neck. Same language and body movements...both with breast milk. Was he somehow projecting himself from his dream into the scene into Bree's room...or did Jamie/Claire "spirits" meet up in some other world. I know it's reaching and the timing is a bit off (a year after Claire leaves in her time vs several years after Claire leaves in Jamie's time), but it seemed awfully convenient. Claire hadn't been pregnant long enough with Faith to be able to produce milk and she was newly pregnant with Bree when she left to go back. So, for Jamie to know the taste of her milk was surprising and I think it surprised him how real everything felt in the dream. To me, these 2 scenes seem related. I don't think DG would have put it in there with that type of similarity if it wasn't meaningful in some way.
Also, Jamie says that he had dreams often since Claire left and they were always unsettling. It felt as if Claire had really been near enough to touch and that sometimes he thought he woke with the smell of her on him. Is he projecting to her time/dreams or meeting her somewhere that isn't defined by time?
I have read some other similar type of situations happen in #4 and #5, but I haven't gotten to those parts yet (reading #4 now) so I can't comment until I've read them.
Think back to the blood vow Claire and Jaime made at their Wedding“Ye are Blood of my Blood, and Bone of my Bone,
I give ye my Body, that we Two might be One.
I give ye my Spirit, 'til our Life shall be Done.”
Focus on the "'til our Life shall be done" - with the emphasize on OUR.
Does this mean that as long as one of the two are still alive, the others spirit can find the other - in the scene when Claire and Frank are on their second honeymoon (for Jaime in the future), Jaime's spirit seeks out Claire in the future.
Been thinking about this. What does any one else think?
Donna, I definitely think you're right. There is something drawing these to "souls" together and it may be that bond. Apparently, in book #9 that DG is writing now...all will be revealed. But, this supernatural link between the 2 of them definitely shows up throughout the series. Edit: I just found that DG answered a question that said that when Frank saw the ghost, the ghost was Jamie at 25yrs. Also, in book #1, just a few scenes before seeing the ghost...Frank had told Claire about the 4 old days and reminds her its almost Beltane. At these 4 times of year, the lines between the spirit world and this one are blurred. The ghosts can walk around and do good or bad around the times of those days. Jamie's ghost comes to see Claire. I agree with you...he won't rest until she's with him and he visits her.
I've always wondered if he's just watching because his ghost senses she is near or if his appearance is a bit like a siren call...calling her to him (though she doesn't know it). Edit: Now that I know Jamie is 25yrs old here, the timing makes sense to me that this is him after she left to go back, when he would have been about that age. It seems to me that he would be looking for her...calling her back to him.
Also, Claire says the air is filled with electricity. That tingling, electrical feeling permeates the entire Jamie/Claire relationship. When they touch each other, they often feel that way. Is that another clue that he is near?
And finally, the ghost appears unhappy, according to Frank. Is it because he can't be with Claire and Claire is with Frank at that point; or, because she's upset with her hair and struggling with the tangly curls which he loves so much? I'm guessing a bit more of former than the latter, but still...it came to mind because of their love/hate relationship with her hair and she was brushing her hair at the time he was looking up (according to Frank).
So many questions and thoughts about this. I seriously could write an entire dissertation on this.
Another mention of the ghost. I am reading A Breath of Snow and Ashes now. Right after Jamie rescues Claire from her horrific abduction, as he tries to sleep he says he feels like a ghost.
I always read the moments where either Jamie or Claire mentioned dreaming of each other, was actually them doing the spirit connection thing. Like when leghair was bitching (and I'd bitch too if it were my husband ) about Jamie waking hard and calling her name... Etc
God that's so romantic! I love Jamie!
Hmmm. Very interesting thoughts ladies!
Didn't DG say somewhere that the ghost was 24 years old?I was thinking about that, and if that's the case, doesn't it match up with Culloden? Jamie doesn't even remember the battle very well and he almost died. He doesn't even remember killing BJR. I wonder if during this time, so close to death that his spirit drifts off to find Claire who he just lost to the stones? And that's when he comes to watch her outside the window of the hotel.
Yes, you're right. But, I'm thinking it wasn't during the battle but at the church afterwards (right before he wakes) or when he's recovering at Lallybroch. I've even thought it could be at the cave when he was lonely for Claire. I don't think it would have been at Ardsmuir or later.
just finished IMOHB last night eagerly anticipating the answer to as to why Frank sees Jamie's 18th century ghost outside Claire's 20th century window just a day or so before her departure through the stones. I was 'summat' disappointed hoping for a dramatic or haunting revelation in that last scene but its very subtle. In a short passage Jamie repeats to Claire that upon their wedding vows he gave her the protection of his name, his clan and his body... a bit further he describes her prior life (before him) as an orphan, wandering the world - rootless and further, that she alone holds his heart. Is it off base to suppose that upon Jamie's death, his ghost passes to the future to Claire's time (birth even) to watch over her, until she time travels to the 18th century? Perhaps he's always been there but was visible to Frank that night (for affect &) because it was All Saints day, the day the dead may walk the earth - the book mentioned chicken blood on the doorways of homes to protect them from spirits when Frank & Claire arrived in Inverness. Anyway that's just my take on it and if anyone has better insight as to this answer promised in the last pages of this last book, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!
This was not the last book there is at least one more so you may be getting the answer in the next book. If she decides there will be a tenth book you might be waiting quite awhile still.
Diane wrote: "This was not the last book there is at least one more so you may be getting the answer in the next book. If she decides there will be a tenth book you might be waiting quite awhile still."no Kidding???? Here I thought this was the final novel...well that's good news as I didn't want to part with these people yet anyway and there seemed to much more yet to tell! Thanks Diane, looking forward to the next book!
If you go to her site she even has daily lines from the new book in progress. Merry Christmas! finding out there will be a new book is like a gift.
My MIL and I saw 'Herself' speak in April 2015 and she said she is currently writing book nine-in which you can find 'Daily Lines' on her website, they are actually excerpts that you can read from book nine! She even said that might not be the last book!!!!
Judy, I think you've hit the nail on its head tho...I was heartbroken when I reflected on why J's ghost was there and decided it was because of his passing :(
Alas Cindi, I thought perhaps that was a good theory too until I read in a previous comment that according to Diana G. - Jamie's ghost is supposed to be 25 years of age when Frank sees him. The same age in which he fought in the Battle of Culloden.....we'll just have to twist in suspense for awhile apparently.
I have heard the theory that he died briefly at Culloden and that is when his ghost went looking for Claire. What about the theory that before Claire traveled back he did actually die in Culloden but since she did go back and he has different influences, and the circumstances changed, and he survived once she went back (He likely would have been fighting somebody different than BJR the first time) When Frank saw him at about 25 years old, it was just before Claire went back the first time in her time line.
a near death experience during the Battle of Culloden or even during the period after when Jamie was very, very ill...the dates would line up then assuming that the time periods remain parallel. The battle was fought April 16, 1746 and the ghost was seen around May 1, 1945 - you might have something there Diane!
I laid awake for hours pondering the ghost scene in the book and your comment Diane (because enquiring minds have to know)! Imho I think that the ghost scene has much to do with a near death experience - a struggle between the conscious will to die vs. the inherent instinct for survival if you will! And if Jamie's spirit is temporarily released to finds it soul mate (Claire) it would have to seek the future - drawn like a magnet to the only time and place of Claire's known whereabouts as related to him by her - on or about May 1, 1945 in Inverness. Spooky... you can't help but feel that when the ghost turns on its heel and abruptly brushes past Frank, that its Jamie's strong spirit returning to his body with a new will to live. Can't stay gone long as that window closes soon!!!! OK I gotta go think about something else now, lol.
Judy wrote: "...Jamie's strong spirit returning to his body with a new will to live"Wow, that actually sounds beautiful and plausible.
There may be a spoiler in this for the book readers, I suggest reading The Scottish Prisoner. It is important to understand where Jamie was at that time. I know this is a really old thread but I thought I would comment a few things. I am rereading all and watching the series again. Many people I have spoken with feel that Jamie maybe a traveler in his own right although not physically, perhaps metaphysically. He has talked to Claire on a couple of occasions and mentioned that he had dreamed of her. The first time, he said that she was surrounded by the strange light and brushing her hair. This happened while he was living in the cave, the dunbonnet, and also once while he was a prisoner. Another time he said he had dreamed of her she was sitting playing with a box and it had a curly tail like a pig but it was a strange thing - which we know as a telephone (sorry kids not a mobile but an old fashioned). It is his connection to her that keeps him going.
"I did wonder..." Jaime hesitated for a moment. "Has she a birthmark, Sassenach? And if so, did ye tell me of it?"
"She does," I said slowly, thinking. "I don't think I ever told you about it, though, myself. It's a _"
His hand tightening on my shoulder stopped me.
"It's a wee brown mark, shaped like a diamond," he said. "Just behind her left ear. Isn't it?"
"Yes, it is." It was warm and cozy in bed, but a small coolness on the back of my neck made me shiver suddenly. "Did you see that in your dream?"
"I kissed her there," he said softly.
Ghost or able to transcend time? Can't wait to finally learn about the ghost.