THE JAMES MASON COMMUNITY BOOK CLUB discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Archives - Miscellaneous Topics
>
ANNE PERRY- TO READ OR NOT TO READ
message 51:
by
Shay
(new)
Nov 02, 2010 02:33PM
I used to read her books, I thought they were quite wonderful and atomospheric. My mom told me the story when the movie came out and we both stopped reading her. I know that she was young, but that level and type of violence seems to suggest she was "broken" in some way. Young doesn't excuse it, we were all young once and got through those years without killing anyone.
reply
|
flag
Lisa wrote: "I just joined this group, so forgive me for being behind. I have read all three of her series, and enjoyed them immensely. I found out about her past by accident, a few years ago, and was shocked..."I kind of like it when people "revive" threads and present another viewpoint or thought. No threads are ever really "dead" here.
Hey Rick/Shay, it is nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I know we are suppose to give people another chance but this was murder, planned murder with a weapon! For me, it seems like she got away with it and now profits from it!
Heather wrote: "I know we are suppose to give people another chance but this was murder, planned murder with a weapon! For me, it seems like she got away with it and now profits from it..."I respect your choice to not want to read her work but I disagree that "she profits from it". Writing about fictional murders and having committed one of your own is not exactly the same thing. Plus she doesn't exactly sell herself on the dust jacket as an "author murderess".
Thalia wrote: "Heather wrote: "I know we are suppose to give people another chance but this was murder, planned murder with a weapon! For me, it seems like she got away with it and now profits from it..."I re..."
I would agree that she probably doesn't profit by this association. It's probably a detriment. They said most avid mystery readers read mysteries because they like the sense of control over chaos. They don't read mysteries to get into the mind of a murderer- that's probably more of a true crime thing. But I do get a sense that it's somehow sick for a real life murderer to be so wrapped up in a make believe world of murder. Almost like a sickness that still fascinates her, like she's not cured. That's, I guess, what I find so creepy. The fact that she devotes so much of her life to murder.
I agree, Shay. I guess if the murder hadn't been so planned & downright despicable, I MIGHT think differently. We are all culpable for our actions. Some would say that she has served her time. I'm not sure that's true .. 5 years for that act does not seem like much. The girls were in an admittedly obsessive relationship & their parents were concerned enough about them to try to separate them to different continents. Did she (they) receive any therapy while in prison? It was the 50s so it's anybody's guess. Her books look very good, but I don't think I will be buying any. I tried to watch one of her videos on her website & couldn't sit through it.
I would agree with both of you, Martha and Shay, it is creepy that she wrapped up in murder after commiting one on her own. That is where I have to take a pause about her work, although I still read it.
Shay, that was exactly what I was thinking. And Martha, that is a very good perspective and I don't know if she did get therapy but I would think so.Thalia, two things: you are right, she doesn't advertise she help commit murder and she didn't profit from the actual murder. She did however try to hide the fact she was one of the girls from the case when the story came to life and didn't quite come clean until she finally admitted to it. I am standing by what I said though because that's how I feel.
Appreciate you setting the record straight.
Mod
My feeling is that we all make mistakes- when one becomes perfect- one ceases to be human- but when it comes to intentional murder of an innocent lady- It is my view that -if we can somehow give the murder victim another chance at life- then I agree the murderer should be given another chance- obviously the lady bashed to death by Anne Perry will never have another chance at life- so why should the the murderer be given a second chance- no do over for the victim
Rick, thank you! That's exactly what I was thinking but just couldn't express it. Usually I am pretty good at explaining myself but then there are times I just figure people can read my little mind and completely understand what it is I am trying to say. Having read so many true crime books, it has jaded me regarding human nature and what we are capable of doing to others. It never ceases to amaze me, horrify yes, but never surprising.
not to get religious, but i truly feel only God can judge. in my opinion, perry committed a terrible crime as a youth and then paid for it. she is obviously not profiting from her crime. none of us live in her mind or in her heart and so none of us know what she has gone through since the murder. what we do know is that she is getting on with her life. why is that a problem for folks? do people think she should simply be locked up for all time, all ability to do anything taken away from her (including publishing books) - despite her youth at the time of the crime?
what is the point of paying for a crime if folks are unable to get past it? there is a vengeful, unforgiving quality to that point of view that makes me sort of queasy. perhaps we should just kill anyone who kills anyone else, regardless of circumstance or age or whatever context there may have been?
and i have to add, there is something about the combination of true crime voyeurism with an easy ability at condemnation that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. and it makes me rather sad to read the opinion that some folks should never be given another chance.
Well, she moved to another country, changed her name. I don't know how well it was known before the movie came out. I certainly didn't know.
Mark, I totally agree with you that it's not my place to judge her. But the subject of this thread is whether or not to read her work & I choose not to because I don't approve of what she did. I hope that she is remorseful and has turned her life around, but that is between her & her God. I read that she has been a member of the Latter Day Saints for 40 years or more which indicates to me that she is in a better place. I still choose not to read her work, however much I might enjoy it.
Mod
Nanette wrote: "Rick,
I agree with you. Plus, how much did she really pay for her crime? Some murderers get life, some life without parolle, some death and Anne Perry...what? a few years?
Plus, so many autho..."
excellant points - both- Mark has brought up a very valid point too- the wonderful thing about James Masoners isthat we can disagree- but do so with respect- personally- I feel that when one commits a willful murder, like Anne Perry- who was certainly old enough to understand what she was doing- since the victim has no more chance to "getting on with her life" - why should the perpertrator?
Rick wrote: "...the wonderful thing about James Masoners isthat we can disagree- but do so with respect..."I totally agree with you (on this at least, lol) Rick. I am impressed that over the course of almost 70 messages, and at times two very opposite viewpoints, the messages have all been very respectful. Bravo everyone, you all make this group so awesome. :)
Mod
I totally agree with you (on this at least, lol) Rick. I am impressed that over the c..."
I second your "bravo"!
I was also shocked when I found out about Anne Perry's background, but I was already a fan of her Pitt and Monk series. I still read books in those series.
Anne Perry was the topic of discussion at Thanksgiving dinner last night. My grandmother was telling everyone how I ruined her favorite author. :/ Woops. But I was surprised by the reactions of my other relatives who thought it was terrible that people buy her books and support her, while knowing what she did in her youth. Now, I hold no grudge against others who wish to read her, and I am as yet undecided about my own feelings, but there was no doubt that this topic elicited a most emotional response from my family. Thanks for all the stimulating information!
Mod
sorry about your Grandmother's reaction Emma- that was not my intention in starting this thread- it was to open a discussion on the various feelings this intiguing issue evoked from members!
I used to read Anne Perry but I heard about this murder many years ago and have been unable to read any of them since. I am not really sure why. They just seem tainted to me now.
Rick wrote: "Emma wrote: "Anne Perry was the topic of discussion at Thanksgiving dinner last night. My grandmother was telling everyone how I ruined her favorite author. :/ Woops. But I was surprised by the ..."Oh no, Rick! Thank you for sharing this information. It was quite a wonderful conversation, fun to see everyone debating their views. And my grandma said she will probably still continue to read them, even though it won't be the same. No harm done! Education is never a bad thing!
After reading these posts, I went a watched the movie Heavenly Creatures to learn more about Anne Perry/Judith Hulme and what took place. Then I watched an interview with her that was conducted by Ian Rankin. After this, I can honestly say, no I would not ever read her book. There is something about her that does not scream out remorse.Here is the link, you decide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_oYT9...
Well, for one, I think it was a shame that they weren't allowed to say anything in their own defense, being undere age. She went to prison. Was she not in prison long enough for you? It sounds like it was a tough prison. And it sounds like she has come to a certain peace with her past.
Of course, choosing a public life like she did she had to know that it would come out even though she did write under another name.
I think we have to decide whether we believe in redemption or not. She was an accessory to murder. We don't really know how big a part she played. But in the interview she does state that her friend told her she would commit suicide if she didn't help. I think, if so, then she was probably in a bit of a quandary.
Maybe it has helped her be a better writer.
And, of course, the interview was conducted by one of my favorite writers, Ian Rankin. At Youtube there was also a video of him showing us around his (and Rebus') hometown.
I do believe in redemption and have listen to people in prison and those who have made mistakes in their lives. There is just something about this particular woman that I don't feel for.
Mod
She went to prison. Was she not in prison long enough for you? It sounds ..."
I do believe in redemption Jan- I just find it so hard with a murder case- because there is no possible redemption for the innocent victim.
I had already read a short story by Anne Perry and an anthology edited by her before I saw Heavenly Creatures. After I saw it, I did some research. Heavenly Creatures is fictionalized. It is not a documentary and I don't know enough about the real case to be able to separate fact and fiction. I have since read several of Ann Perry's historical mysteries.
The movie Peter Jackson did - Heavenly Creatures (I think it was called) told the story of their crime.I read her books and have met her at Malice Domestic. I personally love true crime - I find it fascinating and try and understadn both what drives people to kill and how police catch them. Her books are not about her crime, if she wrote about it, I would be interested in hearing her story but I would expect her to not get profit from its sale.
Mod
never knew that about her. That's some sick lady
Connie wrote: "Personally, I won't watch a Woody Allen film, listen to Michael Jackson, help to put money in Jane Fonda's pockets (I'm a vet) and now that I've heard this story I won't be reading Anne Perry. I g..."
Excellent reply. I do not need to say more then after reading yours. Salut!
Excellent reply. I do not need to say more then after reading yours. Salut!
Although I was shocked by learning that Anne Perry was that teen murdered (I'd read that story somewhere - I think Ngaio Marsh also used it)I also keep in mind that we have blank spots in the lives of many mystery writers.Dame Agatha Christy was a downright enigma. Years after her husband's death, she listed her occupation on her passport as "housewife". We know for sure that she had an affair. She disappeared for a period at the height of her original popularity, and never explained to anyone where she's been for months - but Scotland Yard, thinking her kidnapped, was unable to locate her.
I never liked the Monk series. A detective with amnesia just struck me as implausible.
I LOVED the Pitts, and you do NOT have to read them in order. I read them from the Library, and was lucky enough to read the first one first, but to this day never found the one where they acquired their wonderful maid, Grace. Most of them read independently, and the few pieces of background a reader needs Perry adroitly drops in as a memory or a passing detail mentioned in dialogue. If it's not in there, it's not important. Some of the later books are a bit odd, based on Pitt getting involved in the reality of "conspiracy theories".
A word about a murder writing murder novels.
I'm a degreed social worker. I've never met the woman, and so I've never given her a psychiatric exam (I'm qualified & trained to do that)but a few details of both the Pitt novels and the few Monk novels I've read give me some interesting thoughts about the POSSIBILITY of her using her insight into the criminal mind as an attempted expiation for her sins. POSSIBLE.
PITT and Monk don't take easy answers, but support the underdogs to chase the truth, even at risk of the ire of their superiors. Pitt actually loses his job at one point for that, but is hired to work for a sort of Secret Service.
Charlotte Pitt is willing to give up a life of luxury and wealth to marry the poor police detective she fell in love with, to the anger of her Victorian world, but manages to keep the support of some powerful relatives. A most unusual feminist figure who must teach herself the elementary tasks of housekeeping until they find Grace. (The maid, not the spiritual state.)
Thomas Pitt will risk life, limb and reputation chasing the truth, and is far from a "hero" in appearance.
Just some observations.
Mod
Juliet Hulme - Anne Perry and Pauline Parker were living in a fantasy world and were temporary insane at the time they committed the offence against Honora Rieper. Specialists have said they were under the cloud of - culpable ignorance and temporary delusional insanity. Enwrapped in a complex matrix/compound of fervid reality - denying fantasy, and psychic stress. Under those conditions, when together, they were suffering,Folie a deux.They came to repentance while in prison. When sanity returned they realized the enormity of what they had done. It is to there credit that they have been able to turn their lives right around are contributing in a good positive way towards others. Have been for half a century.They were under the delusion that it was only going to take one bonk on the head to send Honora Rieper to heaven. No body should look at that offence as having been committed by sane, calculating, cold - blooded people, as some have described Hulme and Parker. The exact opposite.
Carl Rosel
I cannot read Anne Perry.
A couple of times I have taken books of hers from the library (she is such a prolific writer, and so popular, that even our little rural library has a shelf or two full of her work), but each time I get the book home and open it I feel physically ill.
I watched a relatively recent interview that she gave. I did not come away feeling any less queasy where she's concerned.
She's evidently quite comfortable with what she did...but I am not.
We were all young once, impressionable and emotional...if youth and youthful angst should excuse her. Most of us don't brutally beat our own or our friends' mothers to death.
That poor woman's life was cut short at the hands of two girls she trusted and loved. Now, years later, one of those girls (having "paid her debt to society") is fantastically successful and wealthy.
There's something wrong with this picture.
A couple of times I have taken books of hers from the library (she is such a prolific writer, and so popular, that even our little rural library has a shelf or two full of her work), but each time I get the book home and open it I feel physically ill.
I watched a relatively recent interview that she gave. I did not come away feeling any less queasy where she's concerned.
She's evidently quite comfortable with what she did...but I am not.
We were all young once, impressionable and emotional...if youth and youthful angst should excuse her. Most of us don't brutally beat our own or our friends' mothers to death.
That poor woman's life was cut short at the hands of two girls she trusted and loved. Now, years later, one of those girls (having "paid her debt to society") is fantastically successful and wealthy.
There's something wrong with this picture.
I've read all of her work. I didn't know about her past, but it was a LONG time ago and I think she's a different person now. I will continue to read her.
Wow, I didn't know about her crime either and she certainly looks a bit disconnected in the Youtube interview. But I do like her books and will continue to read them. Throughout history and at present, there have been many, many artists and writers with less than admirable characters. We'd be losing a lot of great works if we discarded everything these folks had created.
I agree that we can, to some degree, divorce the creator from the person. I'm thinking of Wagner, who was a magnificent creator of operas , but also a Nazi before his time. Leni Riefenstal(?) was just a Nazi but also a magnificent creator of films. I can dislike the artist and appreciate the art.
I love Wagner. Especially "Trustan Und Isolde." Classical music has always been my passion. For the longest time, you coule not play Wagner's music in Israel. That may have changed by now. And artur Rubinsteim. the famous concert pianist refused to perform in Germany after the holocaust.
Mod
If I am correct Leni R. not only supported the nazis but made propaganda films for them. Horrific human regardless of any talent she may have had. Think she is dead. Was about 100 and still living ... Still despised by many for her atrocious past
Damn. I didn't know. It's always safer knowing nothing about creative artists!I really enjoyed her books, glutted on them for a while, and the decide for me would be the world of the book itself - her books are not related to her crime and the protagonists have morals I can relate to - unlike many crime novels whose authors have not themselves committed murder. Trust the book. Read one and judge the book, not the author.
Mod
I really enjoyed her books, glutted on them for a while, and the decide for me would be the world of the book itself ..."
"the decide for me would be the world of the book itself"
VERY keen statement...I only wish she would have shown some remorse over the horrific crime..the fact is she seemed to have little remorse..which truly does effect my reading her books..I wish I could block out the heinous murder Perry committed..but very very difficult for me.
I haven't read anything of hers, but not for this reason.Personally I read a book, not an author's life....I still listen to The Who and Gary Glitter, despite the allegations. If one has paid the debt to society demanded, then one is entitled to earn a living...be it as plumber or author.
Of course, nobody is obliged to buy her stuff.
I love Anne Perry's books. I love how she immerses you in the period. I find it fascinating to learn about the way of life then. My husband found me several of the Monk books from the library sale and I love them. The Pitt books too. I learned of her crime after reading most of them. I did a lot of learning about the crime at the time. Some people are a lethal combination. Like Leopold and Loeb, they feed off each other and do things that they probably wouldn't otherwise. I don't excuse what they did but I do think that some young people can be rehabilitated. I think that the fact that she hasn't continued to commit crimes shows this.
All I can say is it must be nice to make a very good living writing about murder after having committed murder as a teenager. I will never support this writer by reading her books or purchasing her books. Considering she grew up a little rich girl it doesn't surprise me that the murder of someone innocent was just a temporary roadblock for her. It would befit a psychopathic personality to have murdered and then make a living writing about murder.
Mod
A little over 10 years ago, when I was in a bus station in Manhattan, I picked up "Slaves of Obsession". I began to read it at the time and thought it interesting and well-written. But, as sometimes happens to me, I allowed myself to be diverted to another book. Oh well... At some point, I intend to return back to Anne Perry. (Besides, I've bought a few other of her novels.)
I read several of her books before discovering her past made me not want to read more. I firmly believe anyone who deliberately kills another person is mentally ill, but that still doesn't excuse what was done. I have no desire to contribute to her financial well-being.And I didn't enjoy the books I read that much so it isn't a big sacrifice for me!
Okay, wow. Did not know anything about Perry's past till I read these recent posts. Now I've googled all about it and am just stunned. I love her books (have read most of them at this point) and have been an avid fan. Not sure how I feel now. Hmmmmmm.
If we stopped reading books by people who had histories we don't approve of and stopped looking at art by artists who didn't live in a way we approve of or stopped listening to music... you get the idea. I've always thought that the art and the person who produces it don't have to be mixed up. Lately, there's a big push to "know" about the lives of creative people. Does it help to know that Michaelangelo may have been gay? (spelling probably wrong) Etc. I just Don't Care.
I am fascinated by this piece of information that I was previously unaware of, and of mixed opinions about how I view her as a money maker author now.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
THE JAMES MASON COMMUNITY BOOK CLUB
Books mentioned in this topic
Slaves of Obsession (other topics)We Shall Not Sleep (other topics)
The Sheen on the Silk (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Anne Perry (other topics)Ann Rule (other topics)
