Karen Chance Fans discussion
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Touch the Dark
The Cassie Books
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Touch the Dark (Cassandra Palmer #1)
Thanks, Lannister. Now I need to read FK again. I've only read it a couple of times. Very cool! I love Marlowe's method acting in the party scene.
When I think about it more, he might do it in The Gauntlet too. On it being a first level skill, I think maybe I just surmised that and it's not actually confirmed in the text, though I need to reread the relevant passages to be sure. But what else could it be?I think the scene in FK is only a couple of lines and very easy to overlook. It's just my obsession with Marlowe. you know?! :D
No, are you obsessed with Marlowe? Who would have guessed?
Excusing the first level master powers, just plain raw power...I think Cleo and Mircea would be pretty well matched. Though I think she'd win overall, I think he'd put up quite a fight.I think Mircea plays down his mental powers and only used and reveals them when he has too. Like with Dory. Obviously he was powerful enough to not only get on the senate, but keep his seat, and be chief negotiator. Obviously partly due to his mental powers...I love me some Mircea talk!! All day every day!!
M&M not so sure about that, doesn't Cleo have 1500 yrs on him? However if this was a family effort I can see why she would nervous, *whoops nearly walked into a spoiler*
Aileen wrote: "Excusing the first level master powers, just plain raw power...I think Cleo and Mircea would be pretty well matched."This is one of those things that's incredibly hard to judge!
Obviously Her Snakeyness is significantly older than Mircea and I always presumed that she would have acquired more raw power just through her age alone. For instance, Dory comments on how incredibly powerful Anthony is, and she's obviously used to Mircea's power level (I'm assuming here that Cleo & Anthony are broadly similar in power levels.)
However, Mircea has his mental abilities and I don't think these can be easily dismissed, even when you're talking about a powerful consul. KC did a Q&A one time when she talked about Rasputin challenging for the Senate and how Mircea simply wasn't worried (compared to everyone else) and this was because of his mentalist 'ace in the hole'. If Mircea can befuddle (for want of a better word!) the consul before she overwhelms him with raw power, I think Mircea could win. I imagine a consul would have a certain immunity to mental powers, but if Mircea could overcome that, my money's on him.
I would love to see this theory tested in the books!
Started what seems to be my Palmer reading schedule. Every 4 years I re-read the books and get caught up. It's so fun that even after re-reading it I can get sucked in so fast!
Glad you're enjoying your reread, Shera! Do you think your impressions of Touch the Dark have changed since you first read it? Or your opinions on some of the characters?
So far it amazes me how Pritkin annoyed the shit out of me, and now he's one of my faves. And how sexy Mircea becomes, because I read it back when I was 16 and I remember how I thought he was more of a father figure.
Also, I can see how people had a hard time with book 1. YOu really have to pay attention. (Though complaints about the world and if humans know about vampires was clearly covered.)
It's also picking up on "famous vampires". For some reason in my first and second reads it totally skipped my mind that the Consul was (view spoiler) Totally cool.
Finished it up a bit ago and it's just as cray-cray fun as I remembered it. It did have it's skippy moments that I had forgotten.
Though I didn't notice last time that before the time line change Louis-Cesare had become a vampire because (view spoiler) Which I find weird becasue Mircea was changed by a gypsy curse as well.
Just Random thought.
I'm doing another reread and even though I've read/skimmed Touch the Dark a few times, it seems in the past I was too focused on other questions of things I found more interesting than others that I almost completely looked them over.Like when Billy first gave Cassie the info about Rasputin and he asked her remember the Russian guy Tony had business dealings with that used to run half the rackets in Moscow? So when Cassie lived there that implies that though she may not have actually met him, she's heard of him while she was there. Though it doesn't explain how far back Tony and Rasputin's dealings go and I doubt Tony would be forthcoming about anything that might of been really going on with them. Seems a little lame Rasputin started a mess just because he didn't get a seat on the NA senate and second and the enforcer because Mei Ling did. But I'll have to keep on with my reread, because it seems I've forgotten a lot.
Cassie saw her parents car accident on her 14th birthday? That's an odd time, and the only vision she got was after the car blew and of Jimmy the rats convo with Tony that it was done and he was picking up Cassie from the babysitters before the police got there. The whole thing with her parents seems odd. Then there is Laura who was Cassie's childhood playmate who was buried in the back by the barn because Tony killed her family (and her) when they wouldn't sell their house, Cassie said Laura disappeared after she helped Cassie run away, and later it was because there wasn't any energy around to survive off of.
It was also slightly mentioned about Christina the 180 year old vamp who looked and acted around the age of 6 who was at Tony's. I never thought about what the vamps take or rules were of turning children? Unless this was just a piece of odd info KC tossed in to give more detail into Cassie's loneliness and solitude having no one around to play with.
So could Rasputin and Tony's association be part of why Mircea was there for a year and focusing instead on the Cassie tidbit was more of a distraction for us readers? And Tony went to war losing 30 of his vamps with another master, which Cassie mentions is usually dangerous because the senate doesn't allow that sort of attention, but it seems too much should of gotten Tony in trouble for breaking all the rules yet he never was. He couldn't of been savvy enough to outsmart the senate completely and Mircea to boot, so what's the deal? Was Mircea actually protecting the turd in some way, for some reason? Tony seemed to think of himself as untouchable, having a few outcasted mages on the circles wanted list, slaughtering whole families, going to war with other vamps and no one has said anything to him?
It was also convenient timing that when the time came to bust Tony on tax evasion he was no one to be found, when he killed Cassie's governess he left her a note saying his instincts told him something was going to happen, but how he did know it was going to happen that specific day?
Wow, awesome observations.
Indeed! Nice little treasures of info you dug up :) I agree with the Tony thing, even Mircea commented it was an unusual move, so maybe he knows something they don't. And although I originally thought he was hiding in Faerie (maybe it was implied somewhere- I don't think I came up with it myself, lol) KC has recently said that he wasn't giving Sal orders from Faerie... so... big mysteries. I also hope the next books will reveal more about Cassie's parents (it's high time she sorted that out) and the whole anti-Senate scheme that's going on in the war.
Sarah emailed everyone about the re-read earlier today and I hope a few of you will join in.I have to confess that I've started early. I'm going to be on holiday for some of the time and wanted to get a head start.
Haven't a whole lot to say so far, but just wanted to post about a couple of things that struck me before I forget them. Before I start, I just reread Kristin's comment (no. 413) above. There are some really great observations there and excellent points for discussion, and I highly suggest everyone read it again.
So, a few things...
Firstly, Cassie discovers that Tomas, with whom she's been living for six months, is actually vamp. Cassie's shocked because she believed she'd always know a vamp. But here's my question: why didn't Billy Joe spot that Tomas was vamp? Cassie says at one point that BJ had never liked Tomas, so they'd obviously been around each other. BJ seems to spot other vamps just fine, and he knows more about the fey than Cassie does, so he's obviously knowledgeable about supernaturals. Is Tomas's ability to shield his vampyness so powerful that even a ghost perceives him as human? Or did KC screw up?
Kristin mentions Mircea's long visit to Tony and we KNOW this is important. I dug out KC's Q & A where she mentions this, just to refresh everyone's memory:
I really liked Masks and felt like it gave me a much better sense of Mircea’s character. I don’t want to spoiler those who haven’t read it, but given his history with the Consul, where is her paranoia about his loyalty coming from? Yes, he’s powerful, but it sounds like he’s proven himself and his value to her many times.Now I'd call that a big, fat hint!
But it’s a double-edged sword, isn’t it? Someone powerful enough to be a major asset is also powerful enough to be a major threat. And the consul hasn’t stayed in control this long by ignoring threats. Plus, there’s the burning question Mircea either doesn’t answer or answers in such a way that isn’t convincing: why was he at Tony’s for a year? He has charmed first level masters who hate the senate in a week, yet he needed a year with this child? Why?
He said it was because he wanted to ensure that Cassie would be on the senate’s side if she was to grow up and inherit the pythian power, which sounds good on the surface. But then again . . . a year? A year away from his court, a year of putting up with Tony, a year in a run-down farmhouse outside Philly? And a year in which he never got around to mentioning that he had found a possible pythia until Marlowe discovered it himself. Why a whole year? And why the secrecy?
It bothers her, and it bothers Marlowe, because Mircea is not the kind of man to do something for no reason. But she doesn’t believe his reason here, or doesn’t think that’s all there is to it, and that’s a problem. That is potentially a big problem considering that Mircea has a very powerful family, has a gift for making allies, has mental abilities that she doesn’t know the full extent of, has a close tie to one of her greatest rivals (Ming-de) and now . . . he also has a pythia. Who is loyal to him, and not to her.
Wouldn’t you be worried?
This is the book where Cassie muses most about Mircea's visit, though nothing startling is jumping out at me so far. Does anyone have any theories what's this about? We learn early on TtD that Tony's involved with all sorts of illicit activities. Was Mircea there to find out about these, and he presumably failed since Tony kept doing what he was doing? Even Cassie said that Tony was smart and valued his neck, and she found it hard to believe the risks he was taking. What does Tony know that we don't??
And finally, the other point Kristin brings up (really everyone should just reply to Kristin's comment!) is how Tony knows the FBI bust is going down and skips town. Is there a mundane answer to this, like Tony has an FBI informer on his payroll, or could there be some other reason, like Myra (or someone like her) told him?
Finally, sorry for jumping the gun on the re-read. Don't worry about commenting until you've done your own reread, if you don't want to. It's just that, if I don't mention these things now, I'll end up forgetting them. :)
Mod
I'll probably start this weekend.
Yay! Started yesterday with the hope the group would do a reread. Love the books!
So this year long visit of Mircea's is bugging me. I can across a little thing in the text that I'd overlooked before, but it might be relevant?Cassie's broken out of MAGIC and headed to Dante's because Billy told her Jimmy the Rat was there, though being held as a prisoner who's about to be sent into the boxing ring. Billy says...
"Jimmy's scheduled to be up next, and they got him matched against a werewolf. I think it's one of that pack Tony took on a few years ago."That happened in Chapter 6, then later on in Chapter 9, back at MAGIC they're punishing the people involved in the attack on Cassie. Mircea fed from a were, then Cassie comments:
I winced. Great. Tony had ordered their alpha killed to encourage them to move out of his territory, and Jimmy had done the deed. So any member of that pack was required to kill him on sight or die trying."
"I thought you didn't like were blood," I said, trying for what passed for normal conversation at the courts. Mircea had been present when Tony had the alpha executed, but had declined the honour of draining him.So Mircea was there when Tony took on and defeated the werewolves. To be honest, I'm kinda stumped to figure out how this might all tie in with the 'Big Picture'. I only mention it because it comes up twice in the book in two separate places and obviously it's something of (I guess) some importance that happened during Mircea's visit, and (presumably) with his consent? Also, some weres at least seem to be on the other side during the war, and Jimmy tells Cassie & crew that there's a new order coming.
I know I'm clutching at straws a little, but just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else had some good ideas!
Ok I just started my re-read (after having to sellotape some pages together! I've used it so much it's already started falling apart!!) and there's a blink-once-and-you'll-miss-it sentence that I've always kind of ignored as a throwaway fact but I have my Supreme Suspicious Spectacles on and I'm gonna throw a wild theory out there. Forgive me, as always, if I've theorised this before. I have a memory like a sieve. Anyway the line is 'he'd [Tony] had a psychic once who became a vamp and was completely psi blind afterwards.' We know Cassie's dad could qualify as a psychic (he does see ghosts & has similar gifts to Cassie). Is it possible Tony turned him in the hopes of keeping him loyal but he lost his gifts instead? (And if he did turn him could he still get stuck in a paperweight post-mortem??) I've forgotten a lot of stuff about Cassie's parents so my apologies if this theory is so unlikely there was no point to it. Otherwise!! Which vamp do you guys think was the former psychic? Is he dead? Still alive? Is he still with Tony? Or is he with one of Mircea's gang now?
Is he even important or am I just grasping at straws?
I didn't get that impression, but anything is possible. Lol.That's part of the challenge of reading KC in my opinion - you never know which random sentence of the gazillion extra world-building tidbits ends up being relevant later in some "there was a hint" plot twist!
KC claimed that MD (or DM? can't remember) had a hint regarding future plot developments, but for the life of me I couldn't imagine what she could have meant. :D
Cassie's father is so weird that frankly nothing would surprise me .... but there's a couple of things against it. Pretty sure Cassie said vamps don't leave ghosts, so he couldn't be trapped in the paperweight. Also, Mircea knew him as human and any time Cassie has met him, he's been human (though, of course, he could have been turned after Cassie was born). Never say never, but I'm not sure if this is likely.Can't think if the psi-blind vamp gets mentioned again, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he pops up again in a future book. He would actually make quite a good character choice for explaining some of the stuff Cassie's father can do.
KC said there were Easter Eggs hidden in the books and she's dropped strong hints that there's more to Drac's story, but I don't know if that'll be only in the Dory books.
But to go back to the TtD reread, pay attention to that scene at MAGIC where Mircea is demonstrating vamp feeding to Pritkin and he takes some blood from Cassie. I'm convinced that's the geis waking up right there. I'm not sure if Billy breaking the energy lock thing earlier on had anything to do with it, though the energies are obviously the same. It's not just Cassie's reaction, it's Mircea's too. He seems puzzled, like he didn't expect to feel what he was feeling.
When you guys read the scene, bear the geis in mind, and tell me if you agree? (It's near the end of Chapter 9).
I feel dense, but I have never understood the block that Mircea had on Cassie's power. He didn't need extra power and couldn't use it himself anyway. It isn't usable by a vamp......right? Did he cap it/dam it up to keep others from knowing how powerful she was, as a safety measure?
It reminds me of the way he built a barrier in Dory's mind without telling her. As usual, I can't even tell exactly what he did, let alone why he did.
It is a nugget of knowledge that floats around with no relevance to the storyline. I hope someone has some simple explanation, because that is all I could follow at the moment.
It reminds me of the way he built a barrier in Dory's mind without telling her. As usual, I can't even tell exactly what he did, let alone why he did.
It is a nugget of knowledge that floats around with no relevance to the storyline. I hope someone has some simple explanation, because that is all I could follow at the moment.
It just dawned on me that Casanova is less than a level three master, because Tony was his master. No wonder the poor thing whines a lot. He has to deal with the Pythia, Pritin/Merlin, the terrible trio of demi-goddeses, the entire NA Senate, and he's a puny level four or less. And I forgot the Demon Lord Rosier always interfering.
I have sympathy for him now. He just wants to own a huge casino on the Las Vegas strip. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?
I have sympathy for him now. He just wants to own a huge casino on the Las Vegas strip. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?
Nancy wrote: "I have never understood the block that Mircea had on Cassie's power. He didn't need extra power and couldn't use it himself anyway. It isn't usable by a vamp......right? Did he cap it/dam it up to keep others from knowing how powerful she was, as a safety measure?"I have a feeling it explains somewhere why he did it, but I may have hallucinated that. I don't believe Mircea's ever had access to the power stored. I kinda thought it was all just building up inside Cassie for about a dozen years, until Billy cracked it open. Obviously this is her pre-Pythia days, so we're not talking about vast amounts of energy. Poor Cassie. Between Mircea syphoning off energy, and Billy Joe feeding, so wonder she's always frazzled. It must be like having a permanent dose of the flu that leaves you constantly exhausted.
I have a feeling KC talked about this in a Q&A. I will search.
EDIT: Here we go....
In Touch the Dark, Cassie in Chapter 5 is having her energy ”drained into a sort of metaphysical holding pot, and warded it with some of his own so she couldn’t access it until he released her”. Who did this? Which vamp is Billy referring to? Why did it suddenly bust now and not before?I knew I'd read something about it somewhere!
Mircea tried to put a lock down on Cassie’s power, because although she didn’t know she could shift at this point, he did. The Pythian power was already leaking to her, and the senate didn’t want her using her new abilities to elude them. Of course, they didn’t count on Billy, who broke through the barrier when he tried to feed, and got the rush of his life!
So it's just Mircea being his sneaky, controlling self, as usual! :P What do you make of all the "You are mine, Cassandra" comments that we get? He's quite a possessive little bugger, isn't he?
Also, I'll post again later, but I'm at the bit where Mircea talks about his visit to Tony and how he thought he might be dealing with a future Pythia. It's interesting in light of previous revelations about Mircea's Pythian Interest.
Oh, one other question about the energy ward thingie.I had always assumed that Mircea put this ward in place when Cassie was 11. But from KC's Q&A, does that mean the Pythian power was leaking to her even then? Mircea hadn't laid eyes on her from she was 11 until, what, a few hours or a day at most before this scene occurs? Cassie surely couldn't have accumulated that much energy to give BJ "the rush of his life" in such a short period of time. I guess Agnes might have begun to lose control of the power even a dozen years ago, but it seems very prescient of Mircea to do this.
I don't think this ward is directly tied to the geis, and it might just be coincidence that the geis woke up around this time (if that feeding was in fact the start of it.) But seriously, how many spells did Mircea put on Cassie during his visit? We've got this energy ward thing, the geis and I think there was a tracker spell too, so that he knew where she was (even though he credited Marlowe's intelligence network for that). Naughty, controlling Mircea!!
@Nancy I love Casanova! Bless him he just wants a quiet life flirting with chicks and owning a casino and he's never going to get that with Cassie around XDOk so my 'Roger was turned into a vamp' theory was quickly debunked like a few pages after, it read 'Tony had insisted, after his resident telepath was turned and lost HER powers...' meaning this person was a woman. And telepathic at that! I'm not one to be so paranoid but that's the second time she's been mentioned in this book. Could she pop up again some time in the future?? I'm really suspicious now.
@Lanni I'm almost at the part where you think the Geis was waking up. But the part before where Billy broke through Mircea's wards was super, super suspicious. I still can't figure out why he was, in Billy's words 'leeching strength' off Cassie. To hide it from Tony? To control Cassie? I just don't know.
I just reached a part that really made me laugh for the umpteenth time '"Be silent Tomas! You have done enough damage tonight. I will deal with this." Louis-César seemed behind on the action, but I wasn't about to take the time to get him up to speed.
"Shut up," I told him, and the expression of incredulity that passed over his face would have been funny in other circumstances.'
SHE TELLS LC TO SHUT UP WHILE IN TOMAS'S BODY AND LC HAS NO IDEA IT ISN'T TOMAS THAT SAYS IT. I just. The comedic perfection.
I wrote this before you posted the Q&A answer Lanni, ooops! Wow that is really dodgy Mircea. Talk about overdoing it on the control... yeeesh. Haven't gotten to the barrage of 'you're mine's yet but there's something to look forward to... (ick). I'm just laughing at all the situational comedy right now XD JIMMY THE HALF SATYR WERE-RAT
LOL, I loved LC being told to shut up! I imagined his smug expression turning to astonishment. I can't wait for LC and Tomas to catch up with each other again.HEY! **sound the incoming crackpot theory alert** Maybe Dorina falls for TOMAS! How utterly epic would that be LMAO! I want this!! :D
Huh, I missed the reference to the telepath. I'm suspicious of everything and maybe she will pop up again. It would be a nice bit of foreshadowing if she did.
On Casanova, LOL, he just wants to get laid! And I don't even think it was his demon half that was the driving force behind this. I've grown a little fonder of him as the series progressed, despite his whingeing. I don't think he's always like that. Him & Cassie are like Marlowe & Dory. They just rub each other the wrong way.
Lannister wrote: 'Him and Cassie are like Marlowe and Dory' This is true! Marlowe and Casanova both have that kind of 'reluctantly helping the heroine' thing going on while frequently keeping up the bickering. It makes for great comedic chemistry in both partnerships! They're like... brotps.
Anyway I got to the bit where Mircea is feeding off Cassie and I think you're right that its the Geis waking up, because its really looking like something happened that Mircea didn't expect as he 'adjusted his collar in an almost nervous gesture'. This gesture? Coming from Mircea? I think on anybody else it'd be downright panic lol. I have another small theory that it may also be because he's noticed that his ward on Cassie's power is no longer there, and his reaction is because 1. How the fuck did that happen? and 2. Cassie's power is no longer under his control. Also 3. There's no way he could put the ward back on her again, as I'm assuming that the last time he did that she was a small child who had no idea what he was doing, and was therefore easier to dupe.
Oh poor Mircea, I'm being so hard on him. I love him really! But only in the Dory series where I can enjoy him as a father. Fatherhood is so lovely on him :)
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe he put a ward on Cassie's power to protect her from other people's notice? If she came into her powers too young then she could have been at risk of being monopolised by others for her power, rather than coming into her power when she's older and able to make decisions for herself.
I've started my reread as well, crazy how much I've forgotten since it's been 8 years since I last read this one, and almost two years since even the last book. I forgot Pritkin was in the series this early, it's interesting reading about him back then with the perspective on how things are now between he and Cassie.Regarding Cassie's ward, did Mircea ask the circle to place it, since Pritkin mentioned it was their most powerful ward? I feel like I've never read the book before, lol.
Duca wrote: "maybe he put a ward on Cassie's power to protect her from other people's notice? If she came into her powers too young then she could have been at risk of being monopolised by others for her power, rather than coming into her power when she's older and able to make decisions for herself. "I think this makes a lot of sense. I had no idea Cassie might be able to touch the Pythian power when she was that young, but Mircea obviously knew (or guessed) better, and he'd want her to lie low until she was ready for it.
Lindsey wrote: "I've started my reread as well, crazy how much I've forgotten since it's been 8 years since I last read this one, and almost two years since even the last book. I forgot Pritkin was in the series t..."
Hey Lindsey! :)
Yeah, eight years is a long time. Doubt I'd remember much either. Pritkin is a totally different character in the first book or two, compared to what he becomes. I still have a hard time accepting how dumb he is about vamps. I know that demons are his speciality, but you'd think he'd at least know the basics!
About Cassie's ward, I'm assuming you're meaning the pentagram ward on her back? Her mother gave that to her. It's supposed to belong to the Pythia, or the Pythia's heir, but when Cassie's mother ran off from the Pythian Court, she kept it then passed it onto Cassie when she was a young child.
I found the exchange below slightly hilarious (for all the wrong reasons!) Mircea is explaining that he wants Cassie to take him back to Carcassonne to rescue Radu before he goes insane (I've snipped the non-essential bits)..."I have thought of killing him many times to spare him, but I cannot. He is all I have...."Cassie is wise and Mircea is a liar!
"I'm sorry, Mircea." I resisted the impulse to go to him, to stroke his messy hair and comfort him. It was too soon for that. Years of experience had taught me to find out the whole story before offering sympathy.
We also get this from Mircea...
So perhaps you can appreciate what it means to me that only Radu remains of all my kinAnd this from Cassie...
Despite having every reason to do so, Mircea had not lied. He was right; I could forgive almost anything but that.Hahahaha! Fireworks are going to fly!
Do you all think when KC wrote this that she perhaps hadn't created Dory at that point (it is the first book after all, and she possibly wrote this part years before it was finally published). Basically, are we supposed to just gloss over this blatant lie from Mircea, or do you think Cassie will recall this comment (perhaps in the next book!) and Mircea will be in the absolute poop?
Another comment that interested me ... Cassie persuades Mircea to tell her what happened to her father. Mircea says (of Roger's refusal to give Cassie to Tony) ...
"[Tony] could not leave Roger alive and save face, but he did not want his death to deprive him of your father's gift."Wait, what? I hadn't really thought of Roger as being sentient or 'awake' in the paperweight (well, I hadn't really thought about it at all until now) but I didn't think Tony could still use his powers in any way. However, Mircea explains further...
[Tony] preferred to keep him confined as a perpetual punishment and a warning to others, even though he had discovered that Roger could not command ghosts now that he was one.So do Roger and Tony have conversations or what? Cassie was obviously familiar with the paperweight, but she didn't seem to be aware of her father's spirit residing within it, so maybe it's 'tuned' to Tony? I hadn't really thought of there being any communication between Tony and Roger, but there must be something if Tony knows Roger can't command ghosts any more (even if Roger is lying about this, that's not really the point. It's the fact that there is communication between them.) I hadn't considered this at all.
Whar? Roger lie to Tony? How did that occur to you?
Interesting catch. It would be analogous to Billie's being confined in Cassie's locket to a bare subsistence existence.
Cassie often used the threat of leaving the locket to molder in some old lady's jewel box, far away from the gambling and carousing dens that Billy liked to haunt, to get him to do whatever she needed him to do for her. Only with the extra power she gave him could he escape from the locket.
Interesting catch. It would be analogous to Billie's being confined in Cassie's locket to a bare subsistence existence.
Cassie often used the threat of leaving the locket to molder in some old lady's jewel box, far away from the gambling and carousing dens that Billy liked to haunt, to get him to do whatever she needed him to do for her. Only with the extra power she gave him could he escape from the locket.
Another thought on this.....this is not like the sensory deprivation boxes that Mircea, Vlad, and Radu were kept in. Maybe Roger's conversations with Tony were the only contact he had with another person. Perhaps the battle of wits kept him sane in his confinement.
Just as Cassie was the only one who could see and hear Billy, she might have been able to speak with Roger, too. Did she know as a child that her father's soul was in the paperweight? And Artemis's soul is in there, somehow welded to Roger's soul. That is why and how the oubouros spell has been maintained, I think.
That is the reason that Tony kept the globe with him at all times. It was more than a sadistic warning to others to beware of crossing Tony.
I wonder how Mircea knew all this. A by-product of his year in Pennsylvania I assume.
Anyway, that seems to be the reason for Cassie's intuitive leap that Tony had the paperweight with him in Faerie.....she thought it was sadism on Tony's part. She doesn't seem to realize that Roger is 'alive' in a sense.
Now, I don't know what to think about KC's hint that Tony (and by extension, Rasputin, Myra and the other acolytes) are NOT in Faerie.
It is difficult to confine a comment to what we know from the book we are currently re-reading, since Cassie gains info a little bit at a time, through the course of the books.
I am amazed that Mircea knew so much in the first book and, also, that he gave that much info to Cassie.
Just as Cassie was the only one who could see and hear Billy, she might have been able to speak with Roger, too. Did she know as a child that her father's soul was in the paperweight? And Artemis's soul is in there, somehow welded to Roger's soul. That is why and how the oubouros spell has been maintained, I think.
That is the reason that Tony kept the globe with him at all times. It was more than a sadistic warning to others to beware of crossing Tony.
I wonder how Mircea knew all this. A by-product of his year in Pennsylvania I assume.
Anyway, that seems to be the reason for Cassie's intuitive leap that Tony had the paperweight with him in Faerie.....she thought it was sadism on Tony's part. She doesn't seem to realize that Roger is 'alive' in a sense.
Now, I don't know what to think about KC's hint that Tony (and by extension, Rasputin, Myra and the other acolytes) are NOT in Faerie.
It is difficult to confine a comment to what we know from the book we are currently re-reading, since Cassie gains info a little bit at a time, through the course of the books.
I am amazed that Mircea knew so much in the first book and, also, that he gave that much info to Cassie.
Cassie didn't know anything about her father's spirit until Mircea told her in TtD, but she seemed to be familiar with the paperweight, because she was able to describe it to Jonas when they went looking in TtS. I assumed she'd seen it when she was a child. It's certainly possible that she never actually touched it, and maybe you have to lay hands on it to communicate with Roger? If Tony knew that, then he'd probably take steps to ensure Cassie never touched it. But then Tony doesn't know about Cassie's abilities with ghosts, so I dunno. It could be that the spell is only tied to Tony. Mircea said he had a mage look into breaking the spell, but the mage said he couldn't do it (Mircea suggests if Cassie became Pythia, she could sweet-talk the Circle into doing it).It's the fact that Tony was still in some sort of contact with Roger that surprised me. I guess I assumed (to the extent that I'd ever thought about it) that Roger was in some sort of stasis and basically incommunicado, but it seems that's not so. Cassie can speak to Billy because of her affinity with ghosts, but Tony doesn't have that ability so it's not really the same thing. I like to think that Roger having Artemis there too means that he's not really alone, though how it all works, I have no idea. I mean, surely Tony doesn't know Artemis is in there?
The whole thing about where Tony is now is super interesting. It seems that he definitely was in Faerie at some point, but it's impossible to say where he might be. My guess is somewhere in Russia or thereabouts. Some territory that Rasputin controls. I assume Russia would fall under the domain of the European Senate? I hope Anthony kicks Raspy's butt!
Also, your final comment about Mircea knowing so much ... LOL, maybe a Pythia told him! :D
KC has a new set of questions on hercwebsite. It explains the ward that Mircea put on Cassie's power. Hmmm.......
Huh. So Mircea only put the ward on Cassie a short time before. I guess I was misunderstanding then, though it's not that clear from the text. There was a bucketload of power only because Mircea put it there, rather than it accumulating slowly from Cassie.I'm glad it's cleared up, though. It did seem weird to me that Mircea would be so knowledgable as to ward Cassie at age 11 (though it didn't stop him putting the geis on her!) It's interesting to get more info on the 'life energy' magic and how it affects the likes of Artemis.
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Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Mircea's Moderatrix
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To get things going, here are some questions to start a discussion.
Is this the first time you're re-reading the book?
Do you remember your feelings when you read it the first time? Were you blown away or was it an okay read but made you curious enough to continue with the series?
How do you think your current knowledge will influence your feelings about the book? I remember that I hated Pritkin in this book. Of course, knowing how the story progresses I'm sure I won't have these feelings during a re-read.
Is there anything that caught your attention that you didn't "see" the first time you read the book?
Is this the first time you're re-reading the book?Nope! I've read the series at least 4 times now and listen to them on audio book while I sew just as many.
Do you remember your feelings when you read it the first time? Were you blown away or was it an okay read but made you curious enough to continue with the series?
I remember picking it up because of either the author recommendation on the cover or a "recommended reading" thing on Barnes & Noble and because it already had 3 or 4 books in the series so I figured it would take me a while to get through (it did not). The first book intrigued me. I really wanted to learn more about this universe and these characters. I wanted answers! Seven books later I still want some of those answers! It wasn't until book 3 that I was full on obsessed with the series rather than just interested.
How do you think your current knowledge will influence your feelings about the book?
I look for hidden hints to the future now. Tears of Apollo, bam right here. Characters I initially liked, Mircea, I don't like much anymore so that changes how I view him. I don't remember feeling much for Pritkin either way during book 1. He really wasn't my focus until book 2 made him a bigger character. But looking back I can see his inner conflict regarding Cassie's human/non-human status.
Is there anything that caught your attention that you didn't "see" the first time you read the book?
Undoubtedly but it's been so long since my initial read through that it's hard to say.
I started the series right after either EtN or CbS came out. So the first 3 books at least were definitely a blur in my initial read through. In subsequent read-throughs I've been able to parse out what happens where, but initially it was one really epic train ride. One of the reasons I picked this series up was the main character interested me. She was a clairvoyant who lived with vampires rather than a vampire herself (this was before I realized I actually don't like vamp characters for the most part). It seemed like a nice change of pace from the usual UF. She wasn't all powerful, she made mistakes, but she was kind and loyal and always did what she thought was right. Cassie is young and female, but still manages to hold her own against the powerful males (and females) in her life. I can respect that.
Is this the first time you're re-reading the book?- Yes
Do you remember your feelings when you read it the first time? Were you blown away or was it an okay read but made you curious enough to continue with the series?
- I was completely blown away!! I couldn't wait to read more.
How do you think your current knowledge will influence your feelings about the book? I remember that I hated Pritkin in this book. Of course, knowing how the story progresses I'm sure I won't have these feelings during a re-read.
- I'm enjoying it just as much but I am noticing little timey wimey clues I didn't pick up on the first time.
Is there anything that caught your attention that you didn't "see" the first time you read the book?
- I was extra watchful of Mircea this time. I wanted to see if he'd give any clue to the geis.
Mod
It's not KC's vamps in particular, to be honest, her's are better than most. It's just most vampires in fiction (well where else would they be) are selfish, self-serving moody creatures that do little but prey on humans. They see humans as food, only protected like you protect your food supply so that you don't starve. They suck the life and humanity out of the human characters but literally and figuratively. I think my transition into vampire dislike started with the Anita Blake books. Before those I was really into the Anne Rice vampires and other vampire stories. But as I watched the kick-ass Anita vampire hunter slowly lose all of her personal morals and turn into a vampire sex machine, they really started losing their appeal. Don't even get me started on the Twilight vampires. Part of it too is the creature type is so over done. The good part of the Cassie books is KC brings in other creature types, the fey, weres, mages, the coven, etc. That said I do love Fred, Marco, Rico, and Cassanova. All four of them break out of the vampire stereotype in some way though. And they are all amusing in their own ways.
Mod
Is this the first time you're re-reading the book?
- God no! I think I've read the entire series so far 4 or 5 times. And love it every single time!
Do you remember your feelings when you read it the first time? Were you blown away or was it an okay read but made you curious enough to continue with the series?
- I think I stumbled upon it as a rec on amazon once upon a time. I remember I liked it a lot, the snarky sarcasm from Cassie is just like my own humor and internal voice, so it hit bang on. Of course I kept reading and by book 3 I was absolutely in love with the series.
How do you think your current knowledge will influence your feelings about the book? I remember that I hated Pritkin in this book. Of course, knowing how the story progresses I'm sure I won't have these feelings during a re-read.
- It definitely changes how I feel reading the first book; the first time I read it I thought Tomas was one of the main characters and I kind of liked him. Pritkin I thought was a hardheaded dick, and Mircea was just the suave sleezy vamp who'd bang everything with tits. When I read it NOW I hate Tomas and can't wait for him to go away, Pritkin is the perfect guy and Mircea is still the creepy vamp who sleeps with someone he knew as a child.
Is there anything that caught your attention that you didn't "see" the first time you read the book?
- Earlier today I read the part where Cassie was taking before the senate. The part where they pass a werewolf on the stairs I wondered why weres haven't been mentioned in the books since. I know the Cassieverse is centered around vamps and mages, but there were was at MAGIC, so wouldn't they at least have been mentioned during the devastation of MAGIC?
Eugh! I think EVERYONE had enough of vamps in the Anita Blake series when it all turned in to an orgie. And sparkling Twilight vamps... no. Just no.
But I still enjoy the Anne Rice variation though. You can't help but love Lestat.
Marco will forever be a favorite of mine <3 Especially because in my head he looks like Russell Crowe in Gladiator, just bigger ^^
Dajuan wrote: "It's just most vampires in fiction (well where else would they be) are selfish, self-serving moody creatures that do little but prey on humans. They see humans as food, only protected like you protect your food supply so that you don't starve. They suck the life and humanity out of the human characters but literally and figuratively."Interesting thoughts! I totally get your impression about the AB and Twilight 'vampires' - egads, just no, lol. I really like vampire (and other 'alien') societies in the way it reflects on us humans. There's some interesting parallels to be had whether we treat our inferior, less developed and more vulnerable food sources with any more humanity than vampires treat humans, or if our race is just moody creatures who prey upon the world around us out of self-serving needs.
For the record, I'm not trying to convert anybody, lol, just thought it would be interesting to voice my appreciation of the societies KC creates. I love how she includes a lot of ideologies in her books with matching flaws. Vampires are depicted as a collectivist, utilitarian kratocracy, which has issues of free will and a relative morality, but in turn does't have any trace of racism or sexism that is rampant in the Circle-Covens divide or human society for example. I'm not sure if KC intended to portray diverse philosophies through her characters, but it makes for an intellectually stimulating read regardless - and I'll stop philosophizing now before it gets unbearably boring, lol.
As for the actual questions, "Were you blown away or was it an okay read but made you curious enough to continue with the series?"- I had very low expectations for a cliché bumbling young adult heroine and a hot half-Spanish vampire roommate... but then a lot of awesome characters kept being introduced, and Tomas (who was being set up as 'the vampire love interest') turned out to be a scheming traitor, so that's when the series seemed to defy stereotypes and set up an interesting unique story. Oh, and the constant classical mythology undercurrent was a nice hook too.
"How do you think your current knowledge will influence your feelings about the book? I remember that I hated Pritkin in this book. Of course, knowing how the story progresses I'm sure I won't have these feelings during a re-read."
- As for Pritkin, judgment is given where judgment is due, lol - he is a major pain in TtD. The other main difference that feels somewhat strange that the problems in the first book seem so trivial in comparison to the later additions... I kinda liked the random seer premise, but the demigoddess reveal just kept escalating the conflicts throughout the series. Now it's like 'Oh, a bunch of dark mages? Only one rogue initiate? Pfft, yawn.' I'm not sure if that makes me like the new installments more, or less... hm...
"Is there anything that caught your attention that you didn't "see" the first time you read the book?"
- At first I thought Mircea was going to be cliché hot vampire, but in retrospect, he's been built up from the start to defy stereotypes too. I started to appreciate that he's a diplomat, probably one of the few male leads in the genre that aren't kickass warrior lone wolves, and he had motivations and interests that did not revolve around the heroine as so many 'support' characters end up, so it added to the defied expectations theme that made me interested in the series.
Zoltan wrote: "Dajuan wrote: "It's just most vampires in fiction (well where else would they be) are selfish, self-serving moody creatures that do little but prey on humans. They see humans as food, only protecte..."I think we're going to be good friends :) I really like how you think.
(Excuse typos, on my tablet.)
So, if anybody else has some more thoughts on the series, feel free to add them :D I'll just leave this here in case someone else would also like to share their fav picks.- What's your favourite scene in the book?
- Do you have any favourite quotes?
- Which character was the most interesting to you in this book?
For me, my fav scene/quote combo was sassy Agnes at the end: "The power has selected you. You’re it, you’re Pythia.” She grimaced. “Congrats and all that.” It just sooo wasn't what I expected the Pythia would be like, the way they talked about it earlier - and after all the smoke and mirrors around this mythical coveted position that had all sorts of requirements, it turns out Cassie was already the heir to the power all this time. Just like that, no fanfare, no ritual, she's been in for it since the start. I found that to be so disillusioning and such an anticlimactic subversion of the built-up expectations, it was so funny.
Is this the first time you're re-reading the book?God no, though it has been a while.
Do you remember your feelings when you read it the first time? Were you blown away or was it an okay read but made you curious enough to continue with the series?
I remember that I was in loooooove. Thought it was the best thing ever and immediately wanted book two. I loved Mircea and, hate to admit, but even Tomas. I loved all the historical characters she threw in.
How do you think your current knowledge will influence your feelings about the book?
I think that I will always, no matter what, be a Missie. I like Pritkin, and I know his feelings will change, but...Mircea is my number one haha. He has been since he first appeared in this book and my love for him only grew with time. But knowing what will happen to Louis-Cesar actually makes me feel better for him?? Because I was always curious about what would happen next for him. I also always thought that Tony would play a much bigger role in the coming books, and that he doesn't didn't bother me exactly, but it always made me wonder why he was introduced as what I thought would be the "Big Bad" only to be shoved off to the side in hiding and come out to play in unexpected ways.
Is there anything that caught your attention that you didn't "see" the first time you read the book?
I see that Cassie constantly looks the other way with so much of what Mircea says to her. He says one thing and she takes it in a completely different way than I think he intends. I mean, it took her FOREVER to realize that he really did love her, and was throwing himself into serious danger to protect her, not because of the Consul telling him too, not because she is "his" but because he LOVES her. And I think I (willfully) ignored that he loved her even in the first book. I think Cassie did too. I think Mircea has always seen the potential in her. Not as Pythia, but for the woman she would grow up to be if she made it to adulthood. He is a vamp. He has been a vamp for a long time. Waiting ten or twenty years for her to grow up isn't that long in his grand scheme of things. And I think he wanted to give her that chance. I think that the added bonus of her being Pythia would make her stronger and more able to survive, which is what he wanted for her. Cassie seems to think that Mircea wants her as property, but Mircea respects the Pythia, and the power that comes with it. I think that Cassie is one of the few women in Mircea's life who doesn't want him for political gain, or for what he can bring power-wise. And there is a lot that Mircea does that has more than one or two or six motives. But when he jumps into situations he knows nothing about and goes back in time with her and whatnot, I saw it as not just to save Radu, but also to make sure Cassie made it safely because he loves her and he worries about her and he KNOWS how often she gets into trouble. But he also knows her well enough to know she won't accept that and has to have ulterior motives for doing things with her.
Mircea is not like any other character and that makes him complicated and I love it. Cassie is young though, and has been burned and betrayed so often that I read what Mircea says, and then Cassie's reaction, and I want to shake her sometimes because she takes away parts that I don't think Mircea is saying to her.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Touch the Dark (other topics)Greywalker (other topics)
I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere else too that it's one of his first level skills, though off the top of my head I can't recall where, but I can look it up for you if you want.
This is why Marlowe's the coolest. He can damn near shoot laser beams from his hands!! ;)