Jane Austen discussion

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General Discussion > Though it is obvious why Lydia wants to run off with Wickham, why does Wickham run off with Lydia?

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message 1: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 1 comments I have always wondered this. Is it just lust?


message 2: by Megan, Moderator & Ardent Janeite (new)

Megan | 724 comments Mod
I have always thought Lydia did because it was a joke -la! And perhaps a one up on her sister (doing "something" that none of them had done).

With Wickham - could be getting another virgin conquest, something to do while avoiding creditors, avoiding actually doing his job with the regiment, getting back at Elizabeth for rejecting him, just being the amoral slimeball that he is?


message 3: by Dhara (new)

Dhara Mehta (tulsitree) | 23 comments Maybe he think she is rich. A quick way to get money. A family will pay through thier for a girl's reputation.


message 4: by M (new)

M (Umichgirl) | 18 comments I don't think he cared for Lydia at all, she was a diversion. He knew the family's financial situation, so he knew there was no money to be had. Very simply, Wickham is a very selfish person. He preferred to have company (regardless of the consequences) when he ran from his debtors than to be alone. Misery loves company. Lydia fed his vanity and amused him.


message 5: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments Wickham knew that the Lizzie knew Darcy. Maybe he knew Darcy would do something to save Lydia's repuation, the same as he did for his sister. Well Georgiana's didn't get as far, but you get where I'm going with this...


message 6: by Veronica (new)

Veronica Lydia was such a flighty girl who thought life shared with a soldier would fun. Little though she knew how difficult it would be with a man as Wickham. But i still can't figure out how he came by the preposterous idea of elopement, at the same time, Wickham is neither a man of character nor compunctions and i don't doubt if he lured her. Lydia for one thing didn't have the sense that her elder sibling Lizzy possessed and she was so guileless that it was easy to influence her. Her levity was i believe the sole cause for her indulgence and it would have been otherwise if she had not taken a fancy to army men.
I think he knew better than to be saddled with Lydia who could never imagine living on economy, for his matrimony in no way was freedom from the debtor's prison. If he had thought that by marrying into the family where Mr Darcy had, still the Bennetts would have proffered him only a meager pittance.
From what most of you have observed, i do agree, it might have something to do with revenge.


message 7: by Susan (new)

Susan | 106 comments Megan wrote: "I have always thought Lydia did because it was a joke -la! And perhaps a one up on her sister (doing "something" that none of them had done).

With Wickham - could be getting another virgin conque..."

I totally agree Megan. Most rakes don't seem to me very concerned over their actions-just the immediate fulfillment of their desires and the holding off of their debts for the moment. They get themselves into such a big mess that the resolution of it is completely insurmountable, so not a thought is given to it.


message 8: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum "amoral slimeball" -- a great description, Megan! I think that if Wickham thought at all about consequences, and there's great doubt about that, he probably said to himself in the great Scarlett O'Hara tradition, "I'll worry about that tomorrow." I'm sure that if England proved too small for the scope of his illegal activities, he'd just charmingly emigrate to one of the colonies and start over!


message 9: by Megan, Moderator & Ardent Janeite (new)

Megan | 724 comments Mod
Karlyne wrote: ""amoral slimeball" -- a great description, Megan! I think that if Wickham thought at all about consequences, and there's great doubt about that, he probably said to himself in the great Scarlett O'..."

Wouldn't he have been the perfect candidate to be sent to Australia when it was all convicts? He could have ended up as Prime Minister!


message 10: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum I see it! And Lydia as First Lady!


message 11: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments HAHA - I have no idea why but the image of Wickham in Australia makes me see "The Thorn Birds".


message 12: by Megan, Moderator & Ardent Janeite (new)

Megan | 724 comments Mod
Kim wrote: "HAHA - I have no idea why but the image of Wickham in Australia makes me see "The Thorn Birds"."

I am seeing a whole new bunch of fan fiction being written......


message 13: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments The Thorn Birds meets Pride and Prejudice - I like it.


message 14: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Pride and Prejudice is way better than the Thorn Birds, he may have been a rapscallion, but he was an endearing one.


message 15: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum I don't know if I think of Wickham as being endearing; I more or less wanted to whack him up side the head. And if he'd run off with my underage daughter or sister, I probably would have, scandal or no scandal!


message 16: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Oh yeah, I guess I got my books mixed up. I did see the Pride and Prejudice movie with Julie Sawahla, and he did seem creepy to me, sorry for being misinformed.


message 17: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum Robin, I don't think I've seen the Julie Sawahla version, but if they made Wickham creepy, I'd probably like it! Everytime that I re-read P&P, I want to yell to Elizabeth, "Watch out!" Now I can yell, thanks to Megan, "Watch out for that amoral slimeball!"


message 18: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments HA I think we'll all start yelling that. While we're on the subject of what versions of P&P we've seen - has anyone seen the black and white version from the 30's with Greer Garson and Laurence Olivier?


message 19: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum Yes, a long time ago; I remember being disappointed in Greer Garson's performance; she seemed too old and played Lizzie in a sort of brittle way. I think I liked Olivier, though (who wouldn't?!).


message 20: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments The whole movie was backwards! I agree with you about Greer's performance. She did seem a bit mean. I loved the suprising differences though. Lady Catherine in on it?! Darcy confiding in her to see if Lizzie loved him. And all the sisters getting boyfriends in the end. Haha - it was just so damn jolly.


message 21: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum I love jolly, so I'd better find a copy and watch it again! Isn't it funny that this version was probably made during the Depression/into WWII era? Not very happy times and yet some of the funniest feel-good movies ever were made at that time. Did you ever see "Sullivan's Travels" with Veronica Lake and Joel McCrae? As I remember it, it was a sort of commentary on why that was.


message 22: by Robin (last edited Sep 08, 2010 12:03PM) (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Yes, I saw Sullivan's Travels, it was a good movie as I recall. Veronica Lake was good in all her movies. And Karlyne the version of Pride and Prejudice is the one with Colin Firth.


message 23: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum Really!? I feel rather stupid! I love that version, but somehow I've never known the actress' name. (I don't own a copy, drat!) And I agree that Wickham was a bit slimy and creepy in it, in fact pert near the perfect amoral slimeball.


message 24: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments He even looks slimy. Like when they do close-up's I just look at him and yell ahh creep!


message 25: by Patricia (new)

Patricia Gulley We are talking about Wickham and Lydia in P&P, right?
He ran away with Lydia because he expected to be bought off, but it took too much time and marriage was the only way to save Lydia's reputation. Don't you remember the part about the uncle Gardiner putting up money as well as Darcy. Wickham married her and got his money to pay debts, return to the army and be sent Newcastle. (Remember Mrs. Bennet's funny line in the movies: "Wherever that is."
Jane Odiwe's book Lydia Bennet's Story is interesting if Lydia and Wickham interest you.
He Never Loved Her.
Patg


message 26: by Robin (last edited Sep 10, 2010 01:06PM) (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) The actress and Colin Firth were an item for a time after the making of the movie. Her last name is Ehle, or something like that. She reminded me of a young Meryl Streep, you must see the video, Colin plays Darcy in his interpretation of what Darcy would be like. This in regards to Karlyne's comment of message 23.


message 27: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum Isn't the actress who played Lydia also in the BBC "Lark Rise to Candleford"? I can't remember her name, either, but I can see her! (I've only caught just a little bit of the series)


message 28: by Danya (new)

Danya | 19 comments Good question! I too often wondered about why Wickham would run off with Lydia. Like most of the others have said, it was probably because he expected the threat of scandal would produce a financial resolution that would benefit him, although I think part of it was that he wanted to spite Lizzy (after all, she'd spoken well of Darcy to him earlier) and the best way was to choose the silliest of her sisters and try to ruin the family.


message 29: by Regine (new)

Regine It was said in the book that he ran away with her without the intention of ever marrying her. I think it was just a matter of getting her out of her corset.


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

Regine wrote: "It was said in the book that he ran away with her without the intention of ever marrying her. I think it was just a matter of getting her out of her corset."

I think so, too. He was on the run and she was willing. He couldn't hope to get money from anyone down the road, because Lizzie had rejected Darcy at this point and the Bennets were too poor. I think it was on impulse, one Wickham came to regret.


message 31: by Megan, Moderator & Ardent Janeite (new)

Megan | 724 comments Mod
Jeannette wrote: "Regine wrote: "It was said in the book that he ran away with her without the intention of ever marrying her. I think it was just a matter of getting her out of her corset."

I think so, too. He wa..."


Agreed. As they used to say when my husband was in the military - Wickham saw his target rich environment and he took his shot. As I said - amoral slimeball.


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

Yep. I don't think he was much smarter than that! :P


message 33: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum And I think the fact that Lydia was already "ruined" by the time that they were found several weeks later, must mean that Wickham wasn't looking for money to save her rep. She didn't have one to save by that time! Would he have married her without the money? Absolutely not! If Darcy hadn't kicked in with the extra, I'm sure Wickham would have laughed and either kept Lydia as long as she was amusing or just ambled off into the sunset.


message 34: by [deleted user] (new)

I think so, too, Karlyne. Her reputation was ruined as soon as they turned towards London and not Gretna Green. Probably before that....


message 35: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) So in a sense, she was sold to the highest bidder. She should have gotten her money back, or nonchalantly given it back to Darcy.


message 36: by M (new)

M (Umichgirl) | 18 comments Megan wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Regine wrote: "It was said in the book that he ran away with her without the intention of ever marrying her. I think it was just a matter of getting her out of her corset."

I t..."


I agree completely, he had no intentions with Lydia other than company. The letter Mr. Gardiner sends to Mr. Bennet once they are located says "They are not married, nor can I find that there was ever intention of being so". Money from Mr. Bennet could not have been a motive as he gave up his addresses to Lizzy because she had no money. Revenge isn't really plausible either because who was he getting revenge on? Darcy? Wickham didn't know about what was happening between Darcy and Elizabeth. He knew Elizabeth was no longer so negative about Darcy, but she hadn't betrayed anything to Wickham. He couldn't have known that Darcy would have any interest in what happened to Lydia. Like Megan said he was just an amoral slimeball.


message 37: by Robin (last edited Sep 10, 2010 07:22PM) (new)

Robin (robin1129) | 306 comments (This is me, the bookcase Robin - as opposed to the other birds out there ;) )

Robin wrote: "The actress and Colin Firth were an item for a time after the making of the movie. Her last name is Ehle, or something like that. She reminded me of a young Meryl Streep, you must see the video, C..."

Setting the record straight:

Jennifer Ehle (who played Elizabeth) and Colin Firth (Mr. Darcy of course!) were an item.

Julia Sawahla played Lydia, but I haven't checked IMDB to see who her love interests have been. ;)


message 38: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Yes, from the other ahem, Robin


message 39: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum And we have a Birdie, too. I should see if my friend Tanager wants to join us!


message 40: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) The more the merrier, but no cats.


message 41: by Robin (new)

Robin (robin1129) | 306 comments Aah, & I have 5 cats. They love me! I'm sure they'd love you too :)


message 42: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I am sure of it, just punning around, what with our name, etc.:)


message 43: by Robin (new)

Robin (robin1129) | 306 comments :)

For an unusual name, it is all of a sudden popular around here, ain't it?


message 44: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) It sure is, who let the birds out.


message 45: by Robin (new)

Robin (robin1129) | 306 comments It's a last minute fling, before heading South for Winter -?

Sonething to do with the release of all those doves for 9/11 -?

I dunno ....


message 46: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Funny, you are witty!


message 47: by Karlyne (new)

Karlyne Landrum So, we can talk about Lydia, but not Kitty?


message 48: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Yes, but I still like that Kitty.


message 49: by Susan (new)

Susan | 106 comments oh my goodness! Dorcas Lane was Lydia!?! I've never realized this. I am a devote Larkrise fan and have watched P&P too many times to count. How in the world did I miss this one? thanks, Karlyne. I will be watching the actress very differently now...


message 50: by Amalie (new)

Amalie Patricia wrote: "We are talking about Wickham and Lydia in P&P, right?
He ran away with Lydia because he expected to be bought off, but it took too much time and marriage was the only way to save Lydia's reputatio..."


I agree with you. Wickham must've thought Lydia is the perfect way to bribe. Since she has 4 more unmarried sisters to save their chances in marriages as well as reputation of the family, Wickham must had thought trapping Mr Bennet. Little he knew was Mr Bennet does not pay a whole lot of attention to his family & girls. Anyway it all worked out well for Wickham at the end somehow...


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