Victorians! discussion
Archived Group Reads 2009-10
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"Far From the Madding Crowd" Part 3: Chapters XXI-XXIX
Sarah wrote: "I certainly see what you are saying, Madge, and it may be true of many heroines in 18th century lit. However, if you must use Jane Austen's Lydia Bennet as an example, it might work more toward my ..."I used 'the 'man on a white horse/charger' figuratively but it is especially relevant to red coated Napoleonic soldiers who inhabit many books of this period, as well as to wealthier male providers. Women did not have to read books about soldiers or chivalry to be imbued with the nonsense that filled them. Troy could have been any young man in the village, or from outside but I think we have to ask ourselves why Hardy chose a soldier in a Napoleonic uniform, who was also the illegitimate son of an earl and what that meant to the plot.
I am using education in a broad way certainly but am particularly thinking of the type of education young women had at that time, which was more about entrapping a man than education as we think of it today. It was not just Mary Wollstonecraft who wrote about its deficiencies.
I agree that Bathsheba was young and inexperienced but Hardy did not just write about young and inexperienced women falling in love. There was usually a more serious underlying message and I think there is one here, although of course you are free to disagree. Tomalin writes of his books being marked 'by a fierce questioning of accepted ideas about society and by 'a gloom which grew deeper from book to book...the books are savage in their representation of human experience'. We shall see some of that later.
Hardy moved between his London club and friends but had a 'raging, wounded, inner self who chastised the value of the world he inhabited.' Although 'wounded' by his unhappy marriage 'he always admired the Bathsheba side of Emma, wonderfully displayed when, at the age of fifty-five she learnt to ride a bicycle'! She was slightly lame and couldn't ride a horse so the bike was a substitute. The horseback scene therefore wasn't reminiscent of Emma but perhaps of one of the many other women Hardy admired.
"I personally tend to shy away from bad boys because I've seen the devastation that they could wreak. Nice to look from afar but not nice to get burnt with". ; ) Truer words were never spoken! :)
Madge, you wrote"I agree that Bathsheba was young and inexperienced but Hardy did not just write about young and inexperienced women falling in love. There was usually a more serious underlying message and I think there is one here, although of course you are free to disagree. Tomalin writes of his books being marked 'by a fierce questioning of accepted ideas about society and by 'a gloom which grew deeper from book to book...the books are savage in their representation of human experience'. We shall see some of that later."
I think you misunderstand what I have stated in my comments. I have not directly stated or implied that Hardy only wrote of young inexperienced girls falling in love. Far from it. Since we are having difficulty understanding each other and I will simply move on to another topic of discussion.
I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization of her acts, her words, and the dilemmas she gets herself into. I think perhaps Hardy wants to show us that we are all creatures who hopefully learn from the errors of our ways. I would like to bring up the subject of Troy. Hardy really lays into him in a big way. "He was moderately truthful towards men, but to women he lied like a Cretan..." "Troy was full of activity, but his activities were less of a locomotive than a vegetative nature..." "...he sometimes reached the brilliant in speech, he fell below the commonplace in action..." "Treat them (women) fairly and you are a lost man."
I am wondering why Hardy in most cases,( I think) allowed a character's actions to speak for their personalities whereas with Troy he vehemently writes of this character's nature?
In Gabriel's case, I think not, Kathy. I don't think it is a foreshadowing, but more a mind speak. Gabriel is solid in who he is and realizes that time will tell. I think he is confident in who and what he is and is not wallowing in a bovine contentment. He is content and satisfied with his lot and is willing to see things through to whatever destiny has in mind.
Troy is the total opposite of Gabriel isn't he? I am not surprised that Bathsheba is charmed by the flattery although she is a little suspiscious of it too. So often in life (and literature) it seems the girl falls for the wrong man - she knows nothing about him and isn't that worldly when it comes to men but mainly, she's far more attracted to him than her other suitors. They become intimate extremely quickly and as has been said, the chapter with the "sword exercise" is really sexually charged and Bathsheba it seems having rejected others falls totally and completely for him.
Has anyone mentioned already that paragraph about "when a strong women recklessly throws away her strength she is worse than a weak women who has never had the the stength to throw away" but maybe this is equally true of a strong man? Afterall Boldwood similarly remains aloof from courtship and marriage until meeting Bathsheba.
I am quite taken with the means Hardy employs when introducing a new character to us - I mean how a character we know encounters one which we don't and we get to observe their reaction. It happens when Bathsheba gets tangled-up with Troy and when Gabriel spots Bathsheba on waggon and meets Fanny running away.
Chris, as per your suggestion I've been trying to notice the references to the colour red as I go along - I don't know if this incident is what you're after but I couldn't help but notice how Bathsheba spots Troys scarlet jacket in amongst the hills from halfway back to her house!
Marialyce wrote: "Could it be, Sarah, that Hardy's writing of this novel and its eventual outcome was a direct result of his love for Emma Gifford. I read he met her in 1870 and married her in 1874. (the same year t..."I think Hardy's personal experiences are probably found very much within the layers of his writing. So far, I have only read of his involvement with his cousin/believed niece which may be a major influence, so I can't comment further than that. I think the exploration of his person story is a very good thing for a newbie like me to do though. :}
Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization of her acts, her words, and the d..."Marialyce,
That is interesting that you bring up the detailed description of Troy. That does set him apart even more than the other characters which do evolve as we observe them within the story. And would the addition of that famous Chapter 26 also be related to Hardy wanting to make distinct the type of man this soldier was?
Kathy wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "(I put this on the wrong thread yesterday - not a Spoiler:))There are a couple of paragraphs in Chapter 22 The Great Barn and the Sheep Shearers, which I would like to share befor..."
Wow, Kathy, I have never seen such barns as these (I live in the southern U.S.). Amazing, and you have added to my visual picture while reading the novel.
Em wrote: "Troy is the total opposite of Gabriel isn't he? I am not surprised that Bathsheba is charmed by the flattery although she is a little suspiscious of it too. So often in life (and literature) it..."
He certainly is! I watched the movie last night and was particularly interested in the sword display. Actually, their visualization of it was more of a showing off for Bathsheba's sake. She sits there stunned and somewhat afraid of the display. In reality it looked silly. Troy seems to be just showing off to impress the lady especially when he spears the caterpillar from her dress. He is like a bee to honey and he works his charm like a pro.
Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization of her acts, he..."I do think so, Sarah. Actually I think that he becomes a bit more likable in that chapter. He shows some gentleness, kindness, devotion, love for another, and his character seems not so jaded as we eventually learn it to be. I wonder if all the things Hardy says about Troy are somewhat refuted in that chapter. Is shows, I think a bit of his nature that he seldom shows to those around him.
Marialyce wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization o..."Well, I believe my opinion more in-line with Hardy's, and again this is just my opinion, but I think Frank Troy is the Devil, a real snake-in-the-grass. There isn't a decent bone in his body. He only does things to advance his own cause. I think much of it based upon the serious chip on his shoulder as a result of his parentage.
A very important point to remember, Troy shows no kindness whatsoever to Fanny Robin, not one jot!
Sarah wrote: "Kathy wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "(I put this on the wrong thread yesterday - not a Spoiler:))There are a couple of paragraphs in Chapter 22 The Great Barn and the Sheep Shearers, which I would like ..."
Sarah, you are right, in my opinion, I think the addition (or, perhaps 're-insertion') of Chapter 26 was an important plotting point for Hardy. Personally, I would like to understand why the chapter was not utilized in the serial publication, and what Hardy's motivation was for adding it to the novel when it was published (and it may have been an even later edition, e.g., when he released the Wessex Editions). I can speculate...
Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "Could it be, Sarah, that Hardy's writing of this novel and its eventual outcome was a direct result of his love for Emma Gifford. I read he met her in 1870 and married her in 1874..."I absolutely must concur with your observation that many of Hardy's life experiences influenced his novels (and his poetry). I have just finished Claire Tomalin's wonderful and very readable biography of Hardy, and it was very illuminating to be sure. I am also two-thirds of the way through his nearly 1,000 poems, and it is my observation that Hardy probably tended to invest his heart rather freely among the women he met and cared for. Through the course of Tomalin's biography there is quite the laundry list of women that Hardy is smitten with. Again, this is very much in the Shelleyan vein that he admired so much. 'Love' seemed to be a rather difficult experience for him personally, and it seems he felt compelled to act when confronted with a pretty face and an intellect (much of it, truth be known, unrequited).
Another huge motivator for Hardy in his fiction and poetry was his own sense of the social conditions, justice, and the observed injustices in the world around him. I think these things bothered the hell out of him, and he was determined to poke at them through his writings.
Kathy wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "(I put this on the wrong thread yesterday - not a Spoiler:))There are a couple of paragraphs in Chapter 22 The Great Barn and the Sheep Shearers, which I would like to share befor..."
Superb links, Kathy! Thanks for sharing these with us. I loved the 'architect' Hardy describing that great barn as though it were one of those great Norman or Gothic cathedrals, and these photographs really make his point quite eloquently. Very cool!
*****************************************************Moderator Interruption
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First, let me apologize for a few things. I should have been paying more attention to the chat, as things seem to have gotten a bit heated and I was completely oblivious to them. I received a few personal messages about them now, and want to apologize to anyone who was offended.
I also want to apologize for bringing up a topic that you have all wonderfully moved past, but do feel a need to address, again due to the personal messages received.
Please note that disrespectful behavior to others will not be tolerated here. While I love the passionate discussions as much as the next avid reader, this is intended to be a place for people to feel welcome and safe in expressing their individual expressions. I know quoting the golden rule seems trite, but I'm a firm believer in it, so do act toward others as you would have them act toward you.
Next - while I never in a gajillion years expected to say this in a Victorian book group - please keep the comments appropriate as far as sexual references and the like. We don't set an age minimum for the group, and even those above a certain age may be offended if we get too explicit. If someone expresses that offense, I would certainly hope we would all respect that, and not just expect them to skim past the offensiveness.
Next - and I know this seems hypocritical considering the length of my own comments (this one included!) but please try to stay relatively focused to the topic at hand. The background information is fantastic, and is helpful to many of us, but can crowd the topics and overwell people, thereby driving them away from what is, for the most part, a truly lively, passionate, insightful, and intelligent conversation. We obviously need to use our own best judgement on what is/is not appropriate to include, but please be mindful of relevancy.
Lastly, I love how much everyone is getting into this discussion and truly appreciate the efforts of Christopher, one of our beloved members, who is putting forth so much time, energy and thought into this discussion. Your work is, as always, much appreciated.
Now - apologies for the interruption, but please, be kind. Be open. Be happy. We are here to discuss literature and books we love. Our lives bring enough stress in 'the real world' and this site should not be adding to that. It should be a warm and open environment where people don't feel belittled and trampled, particularly as I know that is nobody's intention to make another member feel that way.
Thank you all, and happy reading!
PS - I really need to read this book! I skimmed comments to find out what was going on, and the little I learned of the actual book sounds fascinating!
MadgeUK wrote: "(I put this on the wrong thread yesterday - not a Spoiler:))There are a couple of paragraphs in Chapter 22 The Great Barn and the Sheep Shearers, which I would like to share before I forget them...."
Madge, these are just fabulous links that you've provided! I simply cannot imagine how wonderful it would be to spend an evening with friends and family at wedding, or other celebration in a structure like that! I have to tell you that on my next visit to England, that southwestern England is pretty near number one. I also want to go up north and visit some of the country that Gaskell and the Brontes wrote about, but I am completely captivated with Hardy's Wessex! Thank you for sharing these links with all of us!
Paula wrote: "*****************************************************Moderator Interruption
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First, let me apologize for a few things. I should have been payi..."
Paula, thank you for your good words here!
More than anything, it is my desire that all of us participating in the discussion can simply strive to share our love for this beautiful novel and our thoughts of what Thomas Hardy was trying to tell us through his characters and plot. I'm here to learn, and everyone's opinions and observations are valued.
So, keep reading and keep sharing your thoughts. Cheers! Chris
Kathy wrote: "I agree about the descriptions of the barn..."Thanks for those lovely links Kathy. I chose the wedding scene in the barn because it illustrated the barn's structure very well and I chose the Athelhampton one because Hardy lived in Puddletown and knew it well. It too has been mentioned as the great barn in FFTMC but several old barns claim that distinction because it is good for the tourist trade:).
Kathy wrote: "Nicki wrote: "I thought it interesting to note what Hardy says of Oak in Ch. 22. He describes him as being "happy in that he was not over happy." Then later he goes on to describe Oak as having a "..."Very insightful comments Kathy - thanks! Both Gabriel and Boldwood are quite a lot older and more 'staid' than Bathsheba too, so Troy's youth and exhuberance is another factor in his favour.
Christopher wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "(I put this on the wrong thread yesterday - not a Spoiler:))There are a couple of paragraphs in Chapter 22 The Great Barn and the Sheep Shearers, which I would like to share befor..."
Thanks Chris. I was also trying to draw attention to the wonderful architectural detail and religious imagery provided by Hardy. Kathy may be right in posting that it was the 14C Cerne Abbas barn he was describing but I don't understand architecture enough to discern that. I do know that when you are in Dorset many old buildings claim a piece of Hardy!:).
I hope you get to visit England and Hardy/Bronte/Gaskell country. I am a Yorkshirewoman so know the north of England well. I just visit Hardy country for holidays because it is warmer in the south. I've just booked to go back again there next year. Perhaps you would care to join me?:)
Marialyce wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization o..."Marialyce,
I am so enjoying this discussion with you, Marialyce, so I don't mean to hammer a point, but I don't understand your interpretation of Chap 26. Troy gets angry, storms off and refuses to marry Fanny. So I don't understand your point about the chapter? I totally respect Paula's warnings about the discussion here and if we are getting too indepth in this one area, let's just skip on to something else, no problem with me. Chris may prefer that we do so as well.
I guess, Sarah, I thought the fact alone that Troy showed up for the wedding, remained waiting for what seemed like an hour seemed to me to show at least some form of human dignity. Perhaps since I tend to be an optimist at times, I was looking for Troy's silver lining behind his very dark cloud interior. I know that he ultimately is despicable. I guess I was looking for some redeeming quality in him.
I, too am enjoying our "chats". Thank you for being a reading friend.
Thanks Marialyce for explaining your viewpoint a little more. Nothing wrong with being an optimist! I hope to have lots more discussion with you.
Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more ma..."Sarah and Marialyce, carry on! You seem to be having a fine time of it too. Cheers! Chris
Kathy wrote: "I just want to throw in a comment about Hardy's focus on TIME throughout the novel. The majority of chapters begin with a statement about time - hour, day, month or season. Then there's the churc..."Superb comments and observations, Kathy! In reading the novel I had noted this too, i.e., the sense of the seasons and time. You are absolutely spot-on that this is important to the plot (and, I think, to Hardy too), and I also think that your observation about the juxtaposition of the Natural with the 'new' emerging modernity couldn't be more appropriate. Well done!
Christopher wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character developmen..."Thanks Chris, just reading today rather than commenting! Back soon.
Kathy wrote: "I just want to throw in a comment about Hardy's focus on TIME throughout the novel. The majority of chapters begin with a statement about time - hour, day, month or season. Then there's the churc..."Great analysis Kathy - thanks. I had posted about the farming seasons earlier (now moved to Background Info) and explained that Hardy matched each issue of the serialisation to part of the farming season, church festivals (Lammas etc.) and fairs. I hadn't noticed the that time or timepieces were also being used although references to the planet and stars are quite frequent, as you say .
Kathy wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "Kathy wrote: "I just want to throw in a comment about Hardy's focus on TIME throughout the novel. The majority of chapters begin with a statement about time - hour, day, month or s..."Excellent catch on the watches, Kathy! I hadn't noticed that before. I really have to wonder if it is simply a matter of Hardy making a mistake, or if it was truly intentional? To me, it seemed that Bathsheba genuinely did not want to accept Troy's watch. I tended to think that she understood its intrinsic and emotional value more than he did; of course, it must remind him of his 'situation' each time he looked at it, eh? So, maybe it was easy for him to give it up as a bauble for Bathsheba?
Kathy: Apart from Troy's watch which was rather a special heirloom, have you noticed references to other people in FFTMC having watches? I ask because watches were fairly rare in my young day amongst older people and I only saw better off men wearing fob watches. I vaguely remember seeing one of my wealthy aunts wearing a gold watch on a chain around her neck. They had rather ornate clocks though (like Boldwood's in Chapter XIV) and there were many public clocks. Ordinary working people didn't generally possess them until after WWII. I remember my mother being given her first gold plated wristwatch just after the war, to celebrate her 25th wedding anniversary and she was very thrilled with it. It is in my jewellery box now and seems a very tawdry thing in comparison with modern ones. I wonder if Everyman remembers his English grandparents having watches (Americans might have been wealthier:)).
Thanks Kathy: Yes, perhaps as George Eliot does, he is drawing attention to the technology of the age. Even so, I find it unusual that working farm folk, who are poorly paid, should possess watches. Or maybe, because they are a new invention, they became a 'fad' and everyone wanted to possess one. The Great Exhibition of 1851, which was the brainchild of Prince Albert, ushered in all kinds of new ideas and inventions so perhaps cheap watches were an offshoot of that. (I will post a couple of links to the Great Exhibition on the Background thread.)
MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks Kathy: Yes, perhaps as George Eliot does, he is drawing attention to the technology of the age. Even so, I find it unusual that working farm folk, who are poorly paid, should possess watches..."I have to tell all of you how delighted I am with the discussion so far. This last bit, with the watches and the notion of time, has simply been fascinating. It caused me to sit down again with the novel and go back and find these references myself. [Scribbling little notes in the margin next to each of them!:]
All of your discussions, and the wonderful related background information that all of you have provided (especially the links and photographs), have really made me appreciate and value my love of Thomas Hardy much more than even I imagined. Thank you, one and all! I am truly enjoying this! Cheers! Chris
Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization of her acts, her words, and the d..."Maybe Troy's character was so bad that he felt it needed a double portion ' action plus explanaiton. In case his women readers missed the point?The part that broke my heart was the speech about the soldier swooping in and stealing away his one treasure. Reminds me of the sharp difference of having chickenpox as a child, vrs. having shingles as an adult. And a man's inner need for a good name and respect, and now he is being teased as all but a cuckold.
It made me feel ill. I finally realized that ishow I treated the guys I dated, yet not understanding why they were so hurt. I had to turn 45 before I truly got it.
Marialyce wrote: "In Gabriel's case, I think not, Kathy. I don't think it is a foreshadowing, but more a mind speak. Gabriel is solid in who he is and realizes that time will tell. I think he is confident in who an..."I like that "bovine contentment". I'm from cattle country and that is what it is like - cows without a care in the world munching grass. I like you distinguished between bovine contentment and Gabriel being solid and resting easy on knowing who he was, while Bathsheba had a heart going several directions at once. I think it is funny that she is named after one of the bad women of the Bible. I've been thinking about the names: Bathsheba, Gabriel (God's head messenger angel) Cain (is this a foreshadowing of him killing off someone that means a lot to him?), Troy (who's walls were breached after they snuck in the Trojan horse - or is Troy The Trojan horse of the story) _, and Boldwood, a man who seemed to have such an even temperament as to have no temperament at all so he was solid and immovable, like wood, but then is moved by emotion, in moves that seem to him to be bold, but perhaps if they had been bolder, like Troy's, he could have swept her off her feet more easily.
Kathy wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "Kathy: Apart from Troy's watch which was rather a special heirloom, have you noticed references to other people in FFTMC having watches? I ask because watches were fairly rare in m..."I was just thinking about the watches. It may be Hardy using some amount of poetic license, without some specific research in the history of common timepieces, I don't know. Let's say watches might have been more prevalent than we have been discussing here, they may have been purchased more by common folk due to their extreme practicality. Just thinking how many household conveniences quickly caught on in all walks of life in the mid 20th century -- if the public was ready for the item, it was acquired more heartily.
And on this subject of Hardy and 'Time,' I simply must share this poem of his that even relates quite nicely, in many respects, to "Far From the Madding Crowd"--In a Eweleaze near Weatherbury
The years have gathered grayly
Since I last danced upon this leaze
With one who kindled gaily
Love's fitful ecstasies!
But despite the term as teacher,
I remain what I was then
In each essential feature
Of the fantasies of men.
Yet I note the little chisel
Of never-napping Time
Defacing wan and grizzel
The blazon of my prime.
When at night he thinks me sleeping
I feel him boring sly
Within my bones, and heaping
Quaintest pains for by-and-by.
Still, I'd go the world with Beauty,
I would laugh with her and sing,
I would shun divinest duty
To resume her worshipping.
But she'd scorn my brave endeavour,
She would not balm the breeze
By murmuring 'Thine for ever!'
As she did upon this leaze.
(1890)
This is No. 47 in the variorum edition of Thomas Hardy: The Complete Poems, edited by James Gibson, Palgrave, 2001.
And do note Hardy's use of the term "Beauty" in the poem too? Remember he has Frank Troy calling Bathsheba 'Beauty' on numerous occasions.
Thanks for that Chris - a very erotic poem. 'Beauty' is also a term of endearment in the West country, like 'love' or 'dear'. This poem apparently expressed his sense of 'being too old to interest a pretty girl'. He was only 50!Leaze is an old English word for pasture land and there is still a Eweleaze Farm in Dorset, another place for you to go:)):-
http://www.eweleaze.co.uk/gallery.htm
MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks for that Chris - a very erotic poem. 'Beauty' is also a term of endearment in the West country, like 'love' or 'dear'. This poem apparently expressed his sense of 'being too old to interest..."What an awesome link, and a beautiful place to visit. I would love to rent one of the cottages and then just spend a couple of weeks wandering the countryside (with books in my backpack to read on a hillside). I encourage all of you to look at the photos included on this website, they could all be used as illustrations throughout FFTMC. Great posting, Madge!
Thanks. Books Chris? Surely a Kindle?!:). I'll post something else about the Eweleaze area on the Background thread.
MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks. Books Chris? Surely a Kindle?!:). I'll post something else about the Eweleaze area on the Background thread."
Call me a Luddite, but I've not made the jump to a Nook or Kindle yet. While I certainly see the advantages, I love the feel, smell, and simple joy of turning a page, and penciling some odd or quirky notation in the margin or flyleaf. Yes, I am a very odd man. ;-)
Christopher wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks. Books Chris? Surely a Kindle?!:). I'll post something else about the Eweleaze area on the Background thread."
Call me a Luddite, but I've not made the jump to a Nook o..."
They are very useful when you are travelling Chris. After all, you pay for the weight you carry. I find mine very useful but of course I have 'real' books around me too.
Christopher wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "***Possible Spoilers***I guess in a way time is the enemy of all of the characters.(as it is to all of us) It, in a figurative way, betrays Troy when Bathsheba catches a look a..."
I moved it Chris.
Christopher wrote: "Well, I believe my opinion more in-line with Hardy's, and again this is just my opinion, but I think Frank Troy is the Devil, a real snake-in-the-grass. There isn't a decent bone in his body. "Oh, I think you're a wee bit hard on him! I can't find the passage exactly, but wasn't there a description that he never lied to a man and never told the truth to woman? When it comes to other men and to his trade as a soldier, he seems pretty decent. It's just his attitude toward women, which is the part of him that the story emphasizes.
And he was clearly willing to marry Fanny, which shows him not to be a total blackguard since she had neither rank nor wealth to offer, so it must have been for love and not for money or power that he was willing to marry her.
Paula wrote: "PS - I really need to read this book!"Absolutely. It's a wonderful book.
Yoby wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "I so agree with what you said, Sarah, While Bathsheba may be young and inexperienced, Hardy does bring along her character development to a more mature realization of her acts, he..."I think, Yoby, that all of us have treated people and been treated in a shameless way. It is a way of growing up and finally becoming the adult you always thought you could be. I think Mr. Hardy knew that there were things in his own life for which he felt that same sense of guilt that we all feel, and he went about trying to rectify it though his writings. You are so right too, with the concept of the names. There was I have learned, a definite motive behind the names of the characters and I think another lesson taught courtesy of Mr. Hardy. I hope you are enjoying the novel. It is well worth the time and effort involved in its reading. :)
Christopher wrote: "This last bit, with the watches and the notion of time, has simply been fascinating."And since this was a serialization, it was being read over a long period of time. In the six weeks we will be spending on the novel here, the original readers would only have read two of the I believe twelve original episodes.
The novel was published from January to December 1874, and it's interesting to see how Hardy seems to have matched the events happening in the novel with the months as they passed in the publication schedule. It starts in winter, goes through spring, and we're now in the late spring or early summer episodes.
We are clearly a divided crowd when it comes to Francis Troy. (smile)And I am thinking our leader Christopher is not odd at all for not owning a Kindle, or Nook, or Sony. I just still like turning those pages and sorting through my stacks of books too. So many other things in life are cyber these days, I am holding out too.
Probably in the future I will purchase an ereader for travel, but I am kind of in a money-saving phase right now -- most of my electronic spending goes toward my work computer.
I agree that he is the most exciting (from Bathsheba's perspective) of all three potential suitors, but he's not going to be able to save her flock of sheep from clover poisoning (like Gabriel did) or provide her with financial stability (as Boldwood, a well-off farmer could). So in my book, flashy sword dance or not, he's not much of a white knight.
I must also add that perhaps in the mind of Hardy's readers, an illegitimate, penniless soldier like Troy was not considered a good match for the independently wealthy Batsheba.
"As I said previously, we, as women, are often attracted to the bad boys of the lot and surely Troy is a bad boy."
I personally tend to shy away from bad boys because I've seen the devastation that they could wreak. Nice to look from afar but not nice to get burnt with. ; )