Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Jul 10, 2010 04:09PM
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I started this -- got distracted, unfortunately, by my own deadlines, but I was enjoying it a lot.
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A Vintage Affair definitely seemed to push some buttons. It's one of those books readers seem to either love or loathe. *g*
Josh, I spent a good part of yesterday thinking about A Vintage Affair. I actually liked being pushed into a place where I had to do some thinking about what I'd read; after all I expect it from my students!At any rate, without any spoilers, I re-read the last third of the book with Jeff's POV in mind, trying not to be so hooked into Austin's emotions. For me, personally, the strength of your writing is the emotional response I have to the characters. As I read through the story again, I had to draw on my own good and not-so-good decisions when I was in my late 20s(many more not-so-good it seems sometimes) when I was trying to find my way in relationships. I had a very different response to the book after that. I decided that it ultimately boiled down to trust on the part of both men and the strength of their belief in each other.
For the record, I was in the like the story camp. I didn't love the story, not like I loved The Dickens with Love, but I didn't loathe it, either!
Josh wrote: "Patty, I think Sean is one of the more interesting new writers to come along. I like his work a lot."And now I've got LB Gregg and Harper Fox added to my reading list. Somebody always has a new book to read!
Josh wrote: A Vintage Affair definitely seemed to push some buttons. It's one of those books readers seem to either love or loathe. *g* Uhm, yeah, I did notice that over at Wave's place. You shocked a lot of people, Mr Lanyon. *g*
I enjoyed AVA quite a bit, though the infamous scene hit on all my uncomfortable buttons. A long time ago friends and I discussed what would happen if one of us were put in that sort of situation and I honestly had no idea. From that perspective, I found Austin's responses fascinating.
Patty wrote: "Hi, Rob. Alec is 21. He'll be at Uni Melbourne for a semester. He just checked in with us this morning. His first impression..."
Ah, Patty, I hope he has a blast. What a fun adventure to be on at that age.
Patty wrote: "And now I've got LB Gregg and Harper Fox added to my reading list..."Harper Fox's Life After Joe is such an amazing book! I hope you love it, because when I hit the 'home' key after reading the last line, my first thought was, "How bloody beautiful." I'm so looking forward to her new one.
Last night I finished Amy Lane's Truth in the Dark. I'm not one for fairy tales, but that one put me through the emotional wringer a couple of times. The imagery is stunning. I highly recommend that one.
Rob wrote: Uhm, yeah, I did notice that over at Wave's place. You shoc..."Wow. Just caught up on that. The scene was uncomfortable, but was supposed to be. I'm...um, impressed by the strength of some of the reactions. Heh.
Put me in the 'loved the book' column. I even really liked Jeff, my goodness, he screwed up, but he wasn't trying to be mean, just was stupid. A very real and yes, likable character, despite being stubbornly insensitive about Austin's position. Kind of like a big friendly bull, thinking he knows the score, getting shocked and dismayed when he breaks things.
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I'm going off on a tangent here -- thinking aloud...It's not that I expect every book to be the #1 favorite with every reader, but I like pushing readers, I like occasionally making them uncomfortable, the fact is I like writing different characters and that means writing characters who are sometimes weak, foolish, annoying, just plain WRONG. I think sometimes when writers or readers say they like characters to be "different" they mean different job descriptions or hair color, but they still want the characters to be like all their other popular/favorite characters.
Of course...there's nothing wrong with liking what we like.
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Apparently so. I wonder if it's because my version of menage was not a playful, romantic, fun version but a version where someone gets hurt?
Or maybe it was just because readers don't expect to see that particular dynamic out of me.
It's not something I have a burning desire to continue to write. I just wanted to explore some possibilities in one story, but I did find the reaction fascinating.
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Isn't that the truth! I think you'll enjoy them both. I certainly do. Two very different writers but with strong, unique voices and vision.
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Exactly! Genuinely bewildered and sorry when things go so very much awry. And not having anticipated all the potential consequences. I've known a lot of bullheaded people -- male and female -- like Jeff.
Josh wrote: "Apparently so. I wonder if it's because my version of menage was not a playful, romantic, fun version but a version where someone gets hurt..."Patty mentioned how emotionally involved she gets in your books, Josh, and I'm right there too. I felt what Austin felt to the point of having to walk away from it for a while afterward. Took a shower even. Phew! Buttons pushed, man. Glad for Jeff's change, glad Austin gave him another try, wondered what Carson went through afterward, though. It was understandable that she only got one line of bewilderment, but I did wonder how it might have affected her once she realized what she'd unwittingly helped do to Austin. Maybe I was looking for her apology too. Ah, well... It was another great read that almost made me want to learn more about wines (at least to be able to pronounce the damn names). ;)
Josh wrote: "Patty, this is such a good point (leave it to a teacher). These are two young men. The choices we make at twenty are very different than the choices we make later on. We go along with things we mig..."Yes, please, continue not to write to a formula! One of the reasons I found your books is because I got tired of reading the same things over and over again.
In response to your comment about age and experience, it occurred to me that it was a wonder my husband took a chance on marrying me given the history and baggage I carry and I was 30 at the time. Like Austin and Jeff, we committed to working through the hard stuff together. I also had to factor in Jeff's background and life with his dad. I lived in the deep south for 6 years and there are some deep-seeded beliefs that are difficult to imagine. After my re-read, I was convinced that the men had to go through that gauntlet in order to arrive at the point where Austin wouldn't judge Jeff and could accept his background, and Jeff could admit to his feelings. I fully, totally believed in Jeff's sincerity. I especially liked ending the story with the comment about "This is an excellent vintage."
Rob wrote: "Patty wrote: "And now I've got LB Gregg and Harper Fox added to my reading list..."Harper Fox's Life After Joe is such an amazing book! I hope you love it, because when I hit the 'home' key after..."
Rob, I really enjoyed "Truth In the Dark" too, and I'm not one for fairy tales either. It was one of those rare books that had me both tearing up and laughing. And I thought the ending was perfect. I highly recommend it as well.
Josh, I was a bit worried about reading "A Vintage Affair" after learning about the menage scene, but I read the book last week, and liked it a lot. The menage scene was definitely a difficult scene to read because I felt so bad for Austin, but I didn't think Jeff meant any malice by it-- he was just being clueless and stupid. I really did feel Jeff was sorry for the incident afterwards. And, being from GA, it was great reading an m/m book set in the area. In fact, we had to drive past Madison on our way home from the beach the day after I read it.
BTW, I like imperfect characters who make mistakes (perfect heroes are unrealistic and a bit boring in my opinion), so I hope you continue to write "different" characters and push readers. It's one of the many things I enjoy about your books.
Josh wrote: "and that means writing characters who are sometimes weak, foolish, annoying, just plain WRONG."That is true, but for me to believe in a romantic relationship I need to see why the main character loves the love interest despite those flaws. Simplistically, the good must outweigh the bad. For me - I am aware that this is my own personality colouring my perceptions - Jeff's bad points outweighed the good. I don't think that I simply want my heroes to all be the same and can't handle flawed or in the closet characters. To make an obvious comparison, I liked Jake because I could see very clearly why Adrien loved Jake and how good it was between them - it was skillfully painted for us from book 2 onwards.
Yet somehow with AVA I just didn't understand why Austin felt he had an emotional connection with Jeff. Or put it this way, I could understand why Austin would fool himself into thinking it and why he wanted a relationship, but I still couldn't believe in it myself because I just don't recall ever feeling that this connection was illustrated through their dialogue in that Jeff showed his lovableness enough through their dialogue. Jeff fulfilling Austin's needs sexually just didn't seem enough. I don't mean because of the menage - once I got over the WTF? moment I could understand why it happened and I actually didn't hate Jeff for it. The problem is Jeff irritated me from the beginning with his wanting to have his cake and eat it personality. It's not that I felt he was unbelievable - his actions and motivations and dialogue felt very believable - but somehow I just didn't "get" what made Jeff worth persevering with. He was a good listener (though that felt partly because he just didn't want to talk about himself) and telling funny, self-deprecating stories about his job is a likeable character trait, but this didn't have much impact on me as it happened more or less "off screen". He obviously wasn't a total jerk, I could see he didn't want to hurt Austin and felt bad that he did. But in the end, for my taste he just didn't have enough positive character traits to make up for his selfishness.
I guess I just have to chalk this one down to conflicting personalities (if you can have a personality conflict with a fictional character :-/) because I know perfectly well what a great writer you are. In other words, it's not you, it's me. I want to read this again just in case I was simply having a bad day when I read it, and perhaps I'll be in the right frame of mind to appreciate Jeff. Maybe he'll grow on me.
Just so you don't think I loathed AVA - I didn't. I really loved Austin, I totally adored his scenes with his brother (an emotional connection I did believe in) and I liked Carson and Cormac. I enjoyed Cormac very much. I thought the plot thread about Austin's employment worries and relationship with his father to be fascinating and I loved how Austin thought of pracically everything in terms of wine. And of course, your prose was a sheer delight to read, as always.
I'm sorry if this post is overly critical - I have waxed more lyrical over what didn't work for me rather than what did, which isn't particularly fair. Because I did love the things that did work for me. In the end, the relationship didn't, but everything else did.
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Or maybe not, but that's okay.
Sometimes characters just don't appeal. Not that they aren't believable -- sometimes it's because they're too believable. Chemistry is a tricky thing to write and it won't always work for every reader -- it doesn't always work in real life, let alone fictional.
The idea of love at first sight (or nearly first sight) interests me, but it is a hard one to make believable. It does happen in real life, but so much of it is just physical chemistry and that may be hard to translate into writing. Especially if the love interest is flawed.
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That's great. I hope I captured the feel of the region. The armchair travel aspect is one of my favorite parts about writing.
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These are two characters and a dynamic I want to return to eventually. Partly because there would be such a learning curve in their relationship arc -- at this stage their feelings for each other aren't grounded in much more than chemistry and simpatico, and I think it would be interesting to show how that works into something more. And then Jeff being a PI and Austin's background -- with all the criminal shenanigans that take place in the wine world -- offers a lot of possibilities,
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Interesting. I'm not sure that Carson would see it as something she needed to apologize for -- in fact, probably not. She'd be sorry she was part of hurting Austin, but I think the idea that Austin was genuinely hurt by what happened would continue to puzzle her.
And of course there is a slightly uncomfortable dichotomy between playing some of it for laughs and trying to keep some of it serious. Carson is part of the comedic factor, but she does have a more serious role. I'm not sure it entirely works.
Did/does Carson understand or suspect that Jeff is gay? The sense I had when I read the menage scene was that she and Jeff had participated in menage before. Some of her bewilderment in Austin's distress was in the comment she makes about how they always like it. Carson is obviously skilled and easy. She comes across as relatively shallow and unconcerned to me; after all she was having an affair with the other guy (the one who was murdered-sorry-can't remember his name!) and then went home with Jeff.
Josh wrote: "I like pushing readers, I like occasionally making them uncomfortable, the fact is I like writing different characters and that means writing characters who are sometimes weak, foolish, annoying, just plain WRONG. I think sometimes when writers or readers say they like characters to be "different" they mean different job descriptions or hair color, but they still want the characters to be like all their other popular/favorite characters."This is exactly what I expect--what I love--about your books, Josh. I don't want to read about "perfect" men, because there are no such things. The characters I remember most are those who have challenges of some kind that make me yearn to help them or cheer them on, or, sometimes, to "smack them up top the head." That was what drew me to Riordan so much--the boy had more issues than Newsweek, but damn it if he didn't try, even if he got it wrong more often than not. So, I guess what I'm saying is, please don't stop giving us fully effed up individuals. ;)
Josh wrote: "Rob wrote: "You shocked a lot of people, Mr Lanyon. *g*"
Apparently so. I wonder if it's because my version of menage was not a playful, romantic, fun version but a version where someone gets hurt?
Or maybe it was just because readers don't expect to see that particular dynamic out of me."
Yes, to both, I think. I'm not a fan of menage, but my sense is that those who prefer to read it find it all fun and games. For Austin, the scene you wrote was clearly anything but that, so there went the 'joy'. Then there's the "Josh doesn't write menage" factor, which, apparently, is huge. Good job shaking things up! :)
As to the Carson discussion, I think she would be genuinely confused on a couple of levels. First, she clearly thinks of sex as just a feel-good activity, without the weight of emotion Austin put with it; second, I don't think she fully understood Jeff's reasons for including Austin. I don't remember the men ever touching during the scene, so she may still be unaware of Jeff's other interests. If she isn't, then she still probably doesn't understand that for some gay men, touching a woman sexually is absolutely not going to happen. Her relationship with Cormac in relation to his sexuality (or anything else, for that matter) is confusing. They seemed quite...close.
Rob, I believe that Carson and Cormac are twins. That would explain the closeness that seems unusual for siblings.I'm with you on your take on Carson. The men do touch during the scene, but I think Carson is unaware of it. I think what Carson doesn't understand, and Austin gets this completely, is that she is simply a conduit. Jeff is trying to reach Austin intimately through Carson. This is where it all went wrong for Austin because for him sex is about the emotional connection.
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Ahem. Yes, I did play very gently with one of those Southern Gothic tropes without actually coming out and saying one way or the other. It occurred to me early on that there were liable to be a lot of really dark elements in this book -- and the book was intended to be comedic and romantic -- so it was tricky. You're right, though. It was there.
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Yes to all of that. She wouldn't suddenly think that Jeff is gay, per se. Just that he shares a couple of her kinks. But if it did cross her mind that Jeff liked guys, it wouldn't trouble her either. She really is the epitome of what Jeff would like to be -- for her, sex really is just sex. She's a healthy, happy sexual animal. And she's also a genuinely kind, affectionate person. There is no harm in her -- she's not a victim in that scene, but she's also not manipulating or intending harm to anyone. Jeff is the one at fault there -- and even Jeff isn't trying to harm Austin. He wants to show Austin how it can be because if he can convince Austin to his way of thinking they can continue to have some kind of relationship together that won't threaten him too much. But even Jeff feels left out during that scene although things fall apart so quickly he doesn't have time to recognize or realize why.
Not to stop discussing Jeff (whom I haven't read yet so I'm not reading the posts) but I finally started a new book yesterday. Yay me. I've been so blah about reading which is so unlike me. I finally started All or Nothing by James Buchanan. I ADORE Nicky and Brandon and bought this right away and then because it was long I've been avoiding it which is totally stupid. But I'm about 1/3 of the way through and it's typical James and typical Nicky and Brandon, so hot my netbook started smoking and I'm getting to the mystery part now which I know will be great too. I love James' writing. I'm really trying to get to some of the larger books in my TBR and tackle them. It's my goal for the summer. I find I don't like to stop reading once I get going, but stupid things like life and work and reality intrude which is why I think I prefer shorter books. Then I don't have to stop before I reach a satisfying end, even though I KNOW I'll love the longer book. My brain is a weird creature. :-)
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Ah, I'm developing a reputation as a short story slut Josh, so not sure I'm typical, but I love them from 12 pages and up. Not all are winners and truly some seem to have gaping holes that really do need to be filled in to make sense and should have been longer, but I find most of the time a shorter length works just fine for me and being able to read a complete story in an evening leaves me feeling satisfied.
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Of course sometimes I do want to really delve into a story, emmerse myself in the characters and their lives, but sometimes a quick dip is just perfect. In fact, sometimes all I want is to get my toes wet. *g*
In fact, sometimes all I want is to get my toes wet. Rather like a nice tasty bit, a petite
Josh wrote: "It really doesn't have to be all Josh all the time. (In fact, I'm sort of uncomfortable with that!) Feel free to discuss what non-Josh work you're reading.Well, I have your last 2 Adrian books in my TBR, but I don't want to be done with them, so I'm sort of holding off, LOL.
I read a lot. I mean a LOT. I have a 2-hour commute to work on days I go into the office, so I get a lot of reading done. This morning, I just started Bone Crossed by Patricia Briggs as my "train book." My home book is the new release from Lauren Dane, Insatiable, which I'm trying to go slow with b/c I don't want it to end.
I've just read a brilliant short. "At the Diner" by Neil Plakcy. It's only 8 pages, but it captures the relationship between the lead and his Dad perfectly in short instances.I'd recommend any of his work, the Mahu books are great and there is a book of short stories taht go with them. The 2 long novels, Three Wrong Turns in the Desert and Dancing withthe Tide are both excellent too.
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Just started "Critic's Choice" one of my next Petit Morts!
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Very disciplined!
I read a lot. I mean a LOT. I have a 2-hour commute to work on days I go into the office, so I get a lot of reading done. This morning, I just started Bone Crossed by Patricia Briggs as my "train book." My home book is the new release from Lauren Dane, Insatiable, which I'm trying to go slow with b/c I don't want it to end.
Those long commutes are great for reading -- or audio books if you're the driver.
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I'd recommend any o..."
I like Neil's work a lot, Jan. I've got the first in the new LI series, but (as per usual) haven't had a chance to read it.
Josh wrote: Just started "Critic's Choice" one of my next Petit Morts!"Any idea on when the next set will be released? And will you be doing more than one story for the series?
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Any idea on when the next set will be released? And will you be doing more than one story for the series?"
Welllll, I think we're all running slightly behind this time. I'm doing two stories -- "Stranger Than Fiction" and "Critic's Choice." I'm trying to finish mine up by the first week in August -- I can't remember when we're hoping to release these...I'm going to guess we're looking at September at this point.
Josh wrote: "I'm going to guess we're looking at September at this point. "Oh, I do hope it'll be the end of September. If it's early Sept. I can see myself downloading it and reading it while on vacation. Don't think my relatives would appreciate that *g*
Josh wrote: "Jan wrote: "I've just read a brilliant short. "At the Diner" by Neil Plakcy. It's only 8 pages, but it captures the relationship between the lead and his Dad perfectly in short instances.I'd re..."
I've enjoyed both the LI novels, the first is slightly better than the second, but that's just my opinion. There are some more of his short stories available as amazon shorts, but they are not available to the UK unfortunately.
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Oh, I do hope it'll be the end of September. If it's early Sept. I can see myself downloading it and reading it while on..."
Oh yeah? Well, I hear you have an in with the publisher. *g*
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That "not available in the UK thing" is so weird to me. It's like the Region Free setting on DVDs. It's one thing if the stories/films/music are available through local outlets, but they're generally just not available at all.
Andy wrote: "Oh, I do hope it'll be the end of September. If it's early Sept. I can see myself downloading it and reading it while on..."Well, you could always read the stories aloud. :D Share the goodness.
Josh wrote: "Oh yeah? Well, I hear you have an in with the publisher. *g* "LOL, good point! Off to get the inside scoop on the release date and see if I can get it to fit my schedule *g*
Merith wrote: "Well, you could always read the stories aloud. :D Share the goodness. "LOL I might have to *g*
I just finished reading Zero at the Bone by Jane Seville. I understand the book's appeal to romance lovers in the Dear Author competition for best romance in 2009. The romance between the 2 men is strong. However, I found the end of the book slightly disconcerting in that it strongly hinted at the rough road ahead of the men, including perhaps, their love for and devotion to each other. I know the epilogue sets up for a sequel, but I would have preferred the book end on a totally up note.
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Hmm. Well, if a sequel is planned, then I can see why the decision would be to imply further bumps in the road ahead.
Now you've started me thinking about the fine art of endings...
Something that I actually get some complaints about now and then. (Though they leave me stonily unmoved.) *g*
Patty, Jane Seville is working on a sequel to Zero. She also has several shorts with the guys on her website. janesevillebooks.com, I think. Just finished both Dark Horse by Kate Sherwood and Stirring Up Trouble by ZA Maxfield. Those two couldn't have been more different, but I liked 'em both. I'm very interested in the sequel to Dark Horse (coming out 9 Aug), but kinda iffy about SUT's spin-off.
Rob wrote: "Patty, Jane Seville is working on a sequel to Zero. She also has several shorts with the guys on her website. janesevillebooks.com, I think. Just finished both Dark Horse by Kate Sherwood and Sti..."
Hi, Rob, I'm glad you commented about ZATB. I've been to Jane Seville's web site. Her shorts are interesting. A whole new dynamic with the guys.
I readily admit that I'm a sucker for the Happily Ever After (HEA) fairytale sort of ending, complete with the sigh and hug the book to my chest. With ZATB, I think it goes without saying that these 2 men have a hard road ahead of them. I accept that. however, toward the end of the book- minor spoilers for anyone who has not read the book yet- there are comments from D like, "...you are the best I've ever had.Well, I've never done it with another man before, so I don't have a comparison." Or when D is gone for a long time and Jack is uncertain whether or not he'll ever see him again, the woman who befriends him suggests that if Jack has a quickie with an anonymous someone, D will understand. Then the 21 page epilogue leads into the troubles ahead.
I know this is a hook for the readers who have fallen in love with these guys and their story- count me in!- but (gulp!) I'm so not okay with unfaithfulness/cheating. My heart would break if that happens in the next book
I may be way off. I'd be interested in the thoughts of anybody else.
Hi, Patty. I like the shorts, too, especially the one with D ending up playing with the kid. It's been a while since I read ZATB, so I'm just relying on my vague memory. I think I wasn't concerned about the woman friend trying to seduce Jack. I'm pretty sure he'll remain faithful to D--unless D "gives him a reason not to," you know how that goes. But, of course, I could be wrong. It's already happened a couple times today! I just wish the sequel would come out already. I'm not a patient man.I'm with you on the cheating thing. I absolutely hate it. That said, have you read Bareback? I have to say, that was one of the most intensely emotional reading experiences I've ever had. It totally flipped me out for a couple of weeks. But it is so worth it. I'd love to heard what you think of it.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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