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How far is too far?
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Crystal
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May 20, 2010 12:21PM
I don't know if any of you read Rob Thurman's work. Personally I read Trick of the Light and really liked and looked forward to The Grimrose Path out in September. Apparently her sales were not great and her publisher has decided not to continue this series past book#2. Rob has "encouraged" people aggressively before to buy books but her tweets from 5/14 and 5/17 were basically blaming the readers for her series not selling well and chastising some readers for buying her book and then letting friends borrow it because your cheating her out of her 48 cents per book. Do you think this is an author behaving badly or just a scared author trying to make a living?
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I think its a little of both. She is obviously struggling but to blame your sales problems on your fans is just going a little overboard I think. When a book being lent out to a friend is going to make or break you there is another serious underlying problem there.
I think that is behaving quite badly, even if she is a scared author. I also don't think attacking your potential readers is a very sensible thing to do either, as I doubt if it will encourage people to buy the book.
Seems to me that she is being counterproductive. I've never read her book, but if i had read the first one, enjoyed it and was a fan, and I knew that she was worried that her series would be cxld, I'd be recommending the book to every friend that I have. If the author though started to blame low sales on her fans, I'd be a lot less likely to read her other book or recommend either to anyone. If an author isn't appreciative of her readers, she's not going to make it in this business! Those authors that are great to their readers are the ones that have my loyalty. there are authors that might come out with a bad book or two, but because they have my loyalty, I stick with them and know that the next book will be great. but I wont stay loyal to an unappreciative author.
You know I really liked the series, but I think her attitude sucks. She even made a comment about people who will only buy her books in 2nd hand book stores because of her attitude-and she states well if i'm not writing the series anymore than you won't be able to do that anyway-I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea. I also understand that this is not the first time she has berrated her fans or educated them on how to correctly buy her book she she makes the NYT list. Who are you to tell ppl they can't share a book with a friend-someone who may never have bought your book in the first place is gaining exposure to your work and may purchase it in the future. Way to show some class and marketing skills.
Kelley Anne wrote: "Seems to me that she is being counterproductive. I've never read her book, but if i had read the first one, enjoyed it and was a fan, and I knew that she was worried that her series would be cxld,..."Nicely put Kelley Anne.
I'm usually very pro-author but I was very put off by the tone of her tweets. Bullying is not the way to get people to spend their hard earned money on your product during a recession! She writes full time, a lot of authors don't have that luxury-so suck it up and try marketing your work not insulting your fan base. I don't see many interviews or give aways for her, a lot of other authors do tons of promo-maybe she should lay the blame at her own door.
Wow. I'm not a member of twitter so I didn't see these posts. That's pretty disrespectful of her to blame her fans for sharing books. How does she even know that people were sharing books, and it wasn't just the fact that people don't like the series and weren't even interested in reading it?To be honest I read Trick of Light and it wasn't all that great. I didn't buy it, I took it out of the library and I was GLAD I didn't spend my money on it.
The fact that she's taking it out on her fans is not really making me want to ever buy something from her again. Maybe she should concentrate on doing something differently with her writing if her sales aren't doing well. It's not smart to berate the people you also want to spend money.
I would love to see her original post. Is there a way to repost it Crystal?
I would think loaning a book to someone unsure about the writer or series would be better than them not even giving it a chance at all.
Marissa wrote: "I would think loaning a book to someone unsure about the writer or series would be better than them not even giving it a chance at all."I agree! and if people borrow one book and like it, they may be more inclined to buy some of the others once they know they like the book.
What's the point in one person buying a book, hating it and never buying from that author again?
And you're right Crystal, I don't see much promoting on her end. Wow, this really pissed me off.
I have TRICK OF THE LIGHT, but haven't read it yet and this info makes me less inclined to pick it up any time soon. I've also read some of her Cal Leandros books, but I'll be sure and pass them by from now on. The series definitely isn't a favorite of mine. You want to give me shit because I loaned a copy of one of your books to a friend who would have NEVER read you otherwise? Screw you and the horse you rode in on! I'll never spend another dime on anything this woman writes, I don't care if she writes the next great Amerian novel! I spend my $$ on authors who I know appreciate it! Way to win friends and influence people there, Rob! I think I've heard it all and then something like this comes along!
This is just one of the posts I just found off of her website. It's from May 14, 2010 at 4:17 pm http://robgoodfella.livejournal.com/1...
All right. I received my royalty check (which puts the KFC worker I saw today with her polyester pants so tight I could see her thong in a better earning bracket than me.) For those who didn't check the CHIMERA contest (several entries below), I do want to be clear with this. The best analogy really is a TV show = an author. If a TV show does not get its viewers to watch, it gets cancelled. If I don't get sales/rankings, something of mine gets cancelled. Poof, it's gone.
And from this royalty check, a certain book did not do well at all...and that leads to a decision on my part, taking in my agent's advice and my publisher's advice. If there is a series you love, but you don't feel you have the time or the money or the inclination to help out the author, that's definitely your choice (and money is tight everywhere. ) But the result is...that series you loved? It will be gone. That one or two characters you thought were the best thing since sliced bread...I'm sorry. I can't write books that don't make any money at all (as opposed to the tiny amount others might make.)
The constant wah wah of readers don't owe authors anything...well, that's true. I never thought any differently. I thought, however, that if a reader liked a series and wanted to keep it around, that logically they'd *know* buying it is the only way to do that. You don't buy it, the writer can't afford to write it and the publisher has no reason to publish it. I don't think logic comes any more simple than that. Readers don't owe me squat, but I thought they knew no sales=no series and if you truly loved that series but didn't support it, I don't think you can expect any kind of different outcome.
So now to CHIMERA. It will have to stand up and try to be a series now, because I cannot financially live on one series. Can't be done at my level of the game. Only one series means I go back to my real job which leaves little room for sanity or writing. Please buy CHIMERA, please support it in the way I've seen you kick ass and take names when it comes to supporting other works. Spread the word. Buy June 1st -7th if possible, but mainly buy it. I've never had to lose characters/series before and it hurts to know I won't see them again...that *you* won't see them again when I know many of you did love them.
And this is me waving from Gilligan's Island where the Professor just got kicked off and fed to the sharks. His ratings and sales left no choice. God, I miss those characters already. They were good characters and they had a lot of love between them--a lot of love, a lot of adventure, a lot of snark. It breaks my heart to say goodbye to them. But goodbye is all that's left. I hope you can help CHIMERA not go the same way.
Wow I am in shock! Who acts like that??Ironically I have never read her and just brought Nightlife this weekend. I feel like taking it back now.
Here's another posting she made on May 17 http://robgoodfella.livejournal.com/1...To underscore the seriousness of this, I'm posting another CHIMERA excerpt *and* giving away pretty much any prize I can scrounge up. If you buy CHIMERA from ***June 1st - June 7th (so NYT will count it....they will *not* count it before June 1st), I'm giving away *****5 signed Roadkills, 5 packs of postcards/bookmarks, three cartoon Cal comic T-Shirts w/cartoon of Cal and his Half Human, Half Monster, All Attitude motto (drawing by Kaysha), a Cal T-shirt with the Nightlife print on it (it is small, a small small), and a Cal Leandros calendar (it has all the Cal and Trixa book covers in it.)*****
This is about surviving as a writer. Period. I lost my job when everyone else did. Bad economic times came and the company lost their government contract and folded--taking my healthcare with it. If I don't sell books, I don't eat. You don't watch your favorite TV show, it gets cancelled. People, I do not want to be *completely* cancelled. Z/G and T and L will be gone after September because some people just don't get that. And when you buy a book and let ten of your friends borrow it....11 people read something it took me 9 mos to write and I *still* only received 48 cents. I really hate begging for that 48 cents per book. It's pathetic and humiliating, but if I can keep my other guys alive, I'll do it. And for the people who don't like my snarky attitude, *but* like my books and proclaim they'll only buy them in used stores so I don't get a dime out of them--good luck, because if I don't write them, they won't be there.
Now the fun part: 2 more CHIMERA excerpts (a fun one as I need some fun. I desperately do.) The first shows how life in an Institute can make the outside world an odd place and the second shows a bit of Godzilla the ferret (we loves him, yes, we do.)
Dawn wrote: "Wow I am in shock! Who acts like that??Ironically I have never read her and just brought Nightlife this weekend. I feel like taking it back now."
Yeah.. there's more, read the one I just put up
This is all quite interesting. Her Cal Leandros series is fairly popular and highly regarded (I got it for Christmas and plan to start it - again, having stopped mid way through the first book the first time - next month), but that isn't a guarantee that another series will succeed. Seems like quite a significant case of sour grapes. What I find really odd is that surely those who follow her on Twitter are fans, and probably bought her books - so berating them does her no favors.
Bloody hell she is obnoxious! I don't really like author bashing I really don't but really she is basically calling all her readers stupid! I mean if her series isn't selling surely that is indicative of her writing skilld and not so much peoples reading habits
It seems like she's also threatening the fans, saying she will be taking away the Leandros series if her others don't do well. Jeeze. Maybe she really is desperate, but wow, she's being insulting.
This one is from May 10th, http://robgoodfella.livejournal.com/Okay, devoted fans (and the maniacal minions) who've been with me since the very beginning and those who joined mid-ride or recently, you know...early releases don't count on lists like NYT (and as early releases are inevitable as death and taxes unless you're JKR or LKH, I don't know why that is, but it is, and there you go.) I've made the extended list twice, but that's rather like getting to go to the party, but not getting to eat the shrimp. You can tell people that, but you can't put it on your books. And authors are rather like TV shows...TV shows have ratings; we have sales/rankings. It really is that simple. People would like to think it's not, but sorry...we're walking talking Gilligan's Islands (btw I know the most hilarious Mary Ann and Professor go to prison true story, but I digress.) So if you can buy CHIMERA June 1st - 7th, that means you sat on the couch with your popcorn, footy jammies, and did me an absolutely huge favor by not recording my ass.
There was more on that one, but I didn't feel like posting it all since it was irrelevant.
This lady is unbelievable. She should be putting the blame on her agent or whoever is in charge of her promotions. The fans are the very last people you want to get upset.
I have GOT to find her website.....surely she has one! It'll be great to tell her what I think!
Stunned speechless ...just unbelievable!
I am so taking my book back I revoke my 48 cents
Dawn wrote: "I am so taking my book back I revoke my 48 cents"lol
Wow! That's really the only thing that I can think to say at the moment. I'm just in shock at that attitude!
Yeah and just as a comparison, I wrote something in the contact section of Ilona Andrews website, and Gordon got back to me in less than 24 hrs. He was polite and seemed interested in what I had to say.I now have no interest in Rob Thurman or what she writes.
So I'm taking it she isn't going to be AOM? lol
WOW....I had some of her titles in my "wish list/tbr" file and now I have no desire to try them....I used to borrow books all the time and if I liked the author I would then buy the books myself but it saved me from buying a book and then hating it and getting pissed that I spent money on it...I will say the nice thing with the Kindle and other e-readers is the option to sample the book...although some of the samples are a bit to short I have saved myself from buying a book that I am not really interested in and also ended up with some great finds
Oh, and if the whole "borrowing" thing bothers her she probably really hates the Nook e-reader.....B&N e-books have the "lend me" feature (on most books)which I thought was a great idea and wished that Kindle would do the same.....
Danielle wrote: "So I'm taking it she isn't going to be AOM? lol"haha. That's up to everyone in the group, but if it comes to a vote then no I will not be voting for her. But other people are welcome to!
@Sarah - she probably doesn't like them.
I wonder if she was trying to be funny or sarcastic?? It just ended up sounding rude. I say that she should go apply at KFC - maybe she could get a healthcare plan + she wouldn't have to worry about food and could write on her breaks... LOL!!I dunno - she seems passionate, but part of being an adult is learning when to shut your trap. If she would have just stuck to her contests and maybe thought up some sort of creative marketing ploy WITHOUT alienating readers, she may have been successful in attempts to keep her series' alive. As it stands, I won't be buying her books. There are plenty of others on my to-read list....
Wow, I've never heard of an author ruining their books for future readers. I have no desire to even TRY her books now, coz she's got issues.
Wow this author needs some help to put down your readers like that and blame them for your book not selling.This quote from Neil Gaiman says it all and she should take it to heart!"[D:]on't ever apologize to an author for buying something in paperback, or taking it out from a library (that's what they're there for. Use your library). Don't apologize to this author for buying books second hand, or getting them from bookcrossing or borrowing a friend's copy. What's important to me is that people read the books and enjoy them, and that, at some point in there, the book was bought by someone. And that people who like things, tell other people. The most important thing is that people read... "
— Neil Gaiman
Susie wrote: "Wow this author needs some help to put down your readers like that and blame them for your book not selling.This quote from Neil Gaiman says it all and she should take it to heart!"[D:]on't ever ..."
So very true!!
Susie wrote: "Wow this author needs some help to put down your readers like that and blame them for your book not selling.This quote from Neil Gaiman says it all and she should take it to heart!"[D:]on't ever ..."
I love that quote! Maybe she should go have a talk with him.
Another thing that she said, when she referred to Early Releases being the death of an author, except of course JK Rowling and Laurell K Hamilton. SERIOUSLY? Did you just try to compare yourself to JKR? Because... there is no comparison.
@Jess- I really hate when people "gang up" on someone who might have only spoke out of turn, and I really try to play devil's advocate-but this was just beyond me. I actually really liked Trick of the Light. I'm not crazy about her Cal Leandros books, but I did like Trixa. I went out and purchased it- I have 3 children and a disabled husband don't tell me the proper way to spend my hard-earned money. I do tend to buy a lot of books, I don't think I will be buying any more of hers. She gets to stay at home and write fiction for a living-which is very hard work don't get me wrong-but that was her choice not mine. I find it very hard to believe that teenagers working at KFC make more than she does, if so then maybe it is time to find a day job. I'm very disturbed by her attitude, and this isn't an isolated incident from what I understand she did something similar when her last Cal Leandross book came out. Maybe she should take her 48 cents per book and buy some class.
Jess, I totally agree with you about Gordon and Ilona Andrews-they are probably the nicest and most down-to-earth writers that you will come across. They actually posted on their blog that they knew Magic Bleeds was being soft-released and that they didn't expect ppl to wait until the official release date to buy their book. Gordon posted that they made NYT list once and that's good enough for them. That's class!
I cannot believe that any author intends to insult book lovers who have purchase her paperbacks (new or second hand) or who have borrowed her books from libraries.I don't know this author. I've never read anything she has written, (not even her Tweets) but I have just looked her up.
Here's another perspective on what may have been going on.
There is a particularly notorious e-book pirate who is (or was) selling a collection of Rob Thurman books for $6.00 for the lot.
This pirate had an enormous mailing list built up over 4 years on EBay. Also a book list with over 11,000 novels, all stolen.
This pirate told thousands of honest readers that every book that she was selling was Public Domain, and also that anyone who purchased an ebook from this pirate had "Resell Rights", and could sell it to other people.
This was a lie. A book is not in the public domain until 70 years after the author's death.
Anyway, an unknown reader bought an electronic version of Rob Thurman's books, put it on a pirate site, and it got into the hands of this mega pirate who makes a fortune selling books that she is not entitled to sell, and pocketing everything she takes in.
It is possible that Rob heard about this, and she might have blogged about it while upset.
Here's how piracy can destroy a writer's career. One pirate can upload a copyrighted ebook to a site such as MegaUpload. Then, she can post publicly on several pirate forums that she is "sharing" this title.
Within an hour hundreds if not thousands of forum members can visit MegaUpload (which pays a commission to people who bring in a lot of traffic). Each one of those hundreds can not only download an illegal copy of the original book, but can "share" it with everyone who follows them on Facebook, on Twitter, and on 60 other social networking sites.
And, once they have downloaded that one paid-for-ebook, they can upload it to their own accounts at Rapidshare or ziddu or Scribd, or any number of file storage/sharing sites.
"Sharing" is a deceptive term. One hears it and thinks of one person recommending a book to another. Sharing can mean one person buying one book, and being responsible for thousands of people reading it without paying (or paying a pirate).
No author minds sharing within a reader's family.
I completely agree that pirating books is despicable, and I don't condone it in any way shape or form, and I'm sorry if that happened to her in the past but that's really not what she was talking about in the posts mentioned above. She clearly stated ppl buying from second hand booksellers and ppl sharing there copies of her books with 10 friends are ripping her off for her 48 cents per book. She stated some ppl just don't get it and so Trixa won't be coming back-I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea. If you look under comments on goodreads for The Grimrose Paththere is a poster who actually posted a tweet she had on her website instructing ppl on how to purchase her books-her language towards her readers is rude and derogatory IMO. In my mind this is largely a public relations business-that is a very stupid move on her part.
Wow, I just read the post under that book link you left Crystal. It was even more insulting. Jeeze. I think that she is sinking her own ship acting like this. It's disrespectful and she is obviously her own worst enemy.
Totally, I couldn't believe my eyes when I first read it.Seriously, who does that?
I wouldn't READ, let alone spend my money on ANYTHING this bitch has anything to do with. No way, no how!
Crystal wrote: "I completely agree that pirating books is despicable, and I don't condone it in any way shape or form, and I'm sorry if that happened to her in the past but that's really not what she was talking a..."Alas. How sad. In that case, I apologize for my irrelevent comment.
Rowena wrote: "Crystal wrote: "I completely agree that pirating books is despicable, and I don't condone it in any way shape or form, and I'm sorry if that happened to her in the past but that's really not what s..."I don't think your comment was entirely irrelevant, it does bring up a good point. But I do tend to agree with Melodie.
I agree with Melodie as well, there is no chance of me ever buying anything from her. She compares her wages to someone who works at KFC, but atleast she is doing something she supposedly loves which is a lot more then the KFC worker can say I imagine.
Not only that, but look how she portrays that worker:"I received my royalty check (which puts the KFC worker I saw today with her polyester pants so tight I could see her thong in a better earning bracket than me.)
Was it necessary to be mean about a woman doing her job? I'm one of those people who takes into consideration how a person treats those in service jobs when making my personal judgements about that person's character. This sort of comment is not the way to impress me. I'm sorry, but it's just uncalled for.
Sarah ~Sehrenity~ wrote: "Not only that, but look how she portrays that worker:"I received my royalty check (which puts the KFC worker I saw today with her polyester pants so tight I could see her thong in a better earn..."
That is a great point!!
Who's Your Author?
Books mentioned in this topic
The Grimrose Path (other topics)Roadkill (other topics)
Poison Study (other topics)
The Grimrose Path (other topics)
Magic Bleeds (other topics)
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