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Group Reads Discussions 2010 > "Kushiel's Dart" Joscelin

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message 1: by Lara Amber (new)

Lara Amber (laraamber) | 664 comments Okay maybe I read way too many romance novels, but I look at Joscelin and how stiff and angry he is with Phedre and all I can think is that he wants her. She's gorgeous and is probably rousing all his protective instincts.

Lara Amber


message 2: by Carolyn (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 203 comments Is this a with-spoilers or without thread?
= )

Don't want to give anything away...


message 3: by Lara Amber (new)

Lara Amber (laraamber) | 664 comments Mild spoilers? I'm only 38% of the way through.


message 4: by Carolyn (last edited May 13, 2010 12:46PM) (new)

Carolyn (seeford) | 203 comments (Spoiler-free)

I think with Joscelin I always interpreted a lot of his attitude as 'disapproving', rather than 'protective', but that's just me. After all, his Order is austere and celibate, and he's forced to deal with someone whose business is sensuality.


message 5: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) Carolyn wrote: "(Spoiler-free)

I think with Joscelin I always interpreted a lot of his attitude as 'disapproving', rather than 'protective', but that's just me. After all, his Order is austere and celibate, an..."


I have to agree. He's the oppposite of Phedre, the other extreme.


message 6: by Zen (new)

Zen (zentea) | 135 comments Joscelin seems more complicated - it feels like he's never run across anyone like Phedre in his daily life, so all he has to fall back on are the sterotypes that he has been taught. It will be interesting to see him progress as a character.


message 7: by The Romance Reviews (Carole) (last edited May 17, 2010 01:41AM) (new)

The Romance Reviews (Carole) (The_Romance_Reviews) | 6 comments Yes, he's the opposite of Phedre, and I think the author deliberately made these characters that way. Think of the conflict that will arise, not just in terms of their character but also their upbringing and well, the very essence of what they are. I love conflicts.

And I love Joscelin!!! He's one of my absolute favorite heroes. Okay, I'm gonna stop gushing.


message 8: by Linette (new)

Linette He's one of my favorite too :)


message 9: by M. (new)

M. B. I agree... total opposites. While Phedre embraces her sexuality, Joscelin has been taught to suppress those feelings with his celibacy and strict training. Add to the mix that he is attracted to Phedre... you've got major conflicts and soul searching on his part.

He is definitely one of my favorite characters in this series. Imagine being raised to lead the life of a monk (grant it a fighting monk) in the midst of such a sensual society. Then to have your chosen path tested by falling for a courtesan you are charged to protect. Not to mention, the commandment of all commandments by Elua: Love as thou wilt. The battles that Joscelin has to face internally is pretty intense.

I've read the 3 books that follow their story, and I really enjoyed it!


message 10: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) One of the things that I really liked about this series (and the series about Imariel) is the relationship between Phedre and Joscelin.


The Romance Reviews (Carole) (The_Romance_Reviews) | 6 comments Chris wrote: "One of the things that I really liked about this series (and the series about Imariel) is the relationship between Phedre and Joscelin."

Yes, me too! It's why I waded through Imriel's books! I was hoping to have more of them after Imri's books, but well, I believe the Naamah's books were set soome generations later. I heard Phedre and Joscelin were still mentioned but as historical figures.


message 12: by Luci (new)

Luci | 13 comments I lost interest quickly in the Imriel books because what kept me reading once the novelty wore off were the relationships between Phedre and the other characters. Without those relationships the stories just weren't engaging enough for me.


message 13: by Julia (new)

Julia | 957 comments Naamah's Kiss takes place about 100 years after the events of these books. Not just Phedre and Joscelin are remembered, but many of their companions and compatriots.
Naamah's Kiss (Kushiel's Legacy, #7) by Jacqueline Carey
Moirin is a true outsider to D'Angeline customs and practices, so in a way we learn differently about them than we did from the Kushiel books.


The Romance Reviews (Carole) (The_Romance_Reviews) | 6 comments Julia wrote: "Naamah's Kiss takes place about 100 years after the events of these books. Not just Phedre and Joscelin are remembered, but many of their companions and compatriots.
Moirin is a true outsider to D'Angeline customs and practices, so in a way we learn differently about them than we did from the Kushiel books. "


I think that should be interesting. But I'm still gonna wait for all three books in the trilogy to be out before I dive into it. Don't want to be left hanging...


message 15: by TinaNoir (new)

TinaNoir If this were a movie, then Joscelin would be the breakout star. I actually enjoyed his character more than Phedre. I thought Carey made Phedre a little too resourceful, intuitive and intrepid. She was almost too wonderful. But I think in Joscelin she created a great character, one that involves and absorbs the reader without overwhelming. He was a brilliant replacement for Guy, whom I also thought was really great, albeit minor, character.


message 16: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) Tina wrote: "If this were a movie, then Joscelin would be the breakout star. I actually enjoyed his character more than Phedre. I thought Carey made Phedre a little too resourceful, intuitive and intrepid. S..."

I agree. Phedre was a little too perfect. What I also like about Carey is the fact that she seemed to consider this when she wrote the second series. There is much less D'Angeline perfection in second trilogy.


The Romance Reviews (Carole) (The_Romance_Reviews) | 6 comments Tina wrote: "If this were a movie, then Joscelin would be the breakout star. I actually enjoyed his character more than Phedre. I thought Carey made Phedre a little too resourceful, intuitive and intrepid. S..."

Yay! I agree! He's my favorite!


message 18: by Minglis (last edited May 31, 2010 07:40AM) (new)

Minglis | 14 comments i liked joscelin more than phedre. like a lot of people have mentioned phedre is too perfect, joscelin is much more interesting thanks to his temperament and inexperience in his role as a cassaline brother. which creates an interesting dynamic considering he's a priest and phedre is a whore (to put it bluntly). their relationship is what got me to finally love the book. personally i found the first 300 pages of kushiel's dart a bit of a bore.

plus, he's a tough one. gotta respect that.


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