SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Group Reads Discussions 2010
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"Kushiel's Dart" Joscelin
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Is this a with-spoilers or without thread?= )
Don't want to give anything away...
Mild spoilers? I'm only 38% of the way through.
(Spoiler-free)I think with Joscelin I always interpreted a lot of his attitude as 'disapproving', rather than 'protective', but that's just me. After all, his Order is austere and celibate, and he's forced to deal with someone whose business is sensuality.
Carolyn wrote: "(Spoiler-free)I think with Joscelin I always interpreted a lot of his attitude as 'disapproving', rather than 'protective', but that's just me. After all, his Order is austere and celibate, an..."
I have to agree. He's the oppposite of Phedre, the other extreme.
Joscelin seems more complicated - it feels like he's never run across anyone like Phedre in his daily life, so all he has to fall back on are the sterotypes that he has been taught. It will be interesting to see him progress as a character.
Yes, he's the opposite of Phedre, and I think the author deliberately made these characters that way. Think of the conflict that will arise, not just in terms of their character but also their upbringing and well, the very essence of what they are. I love conflicts.And I love Joscelin!!! He's one of my absolute favorite heroes. Okay, I'm gonna stop gushing.
I agree... total opposites. While Phedre embraces her sexuality, Joscelin has been taught to suppress those feelings with his celibacy and strict training. Add to the mix that he is attracted to Phedre... you've got major conflicts and soul searching on his part. He is definitely one of my favorite characters in this series. Imagine being raised to lead the life of a monk (grant it a fighting monk) in the midst of such a sensual society. Then to have your chosen path tested by falling for a courtesan you are charged to protect. Not to mention, the commandment of all commandments by Elua: Love as thou wilt. The battles that Joscelin has to face internally is pretty intense.
I've read the 3 books that follow their story, and I really enjoyed it!
One of the things that I really liked about this series (and the series about Imariel) is the relationship between Phedre and Joscelin.
Chris wrote: "One of the things that I really liked about this series (and the series about Imariel) is the relationship between Phedre and Joscelin."Yes, me too! It's why I waded through Imriel's books! I was hoping to have more of them after Imri's books, but well, I believe the Naamah's books were set soome generations later. I heard Phedre and Joscelin were still mentioned but as historical figures.
I lost interest quickly in the Imriel books because what kept me reading once the novelty wore off were the relationships between Phedre and the other characters. Without those relationships the stories just weren't engaging enough for me.
Naamah's Kiss takes place about 100 years after the events of these books. Not just Phedre and Joscelin are remembered, but many of their companions and compatriots.
Moirin is a true outsider to D'Angeline customs and practices, so in a way we learn differently about them than we did from the Kushiel books.
Julia wrote: "Naamah's Kiss takes place about 100 years after the events of these books. Not just Phedre and Joscelin are remembered, but many of their companions and compatriots.Moirin is a true outsider to D'Angeline customs and practices, so in a way we learn differently about them than we did from the Kushiel books. "
I think that should be interesting. But I'm still gonna wait for all three books in the trilogy to be out before I dive into it. Don't want to be left hanging...
If this were a movie, then Joscelin would be the breakout star. I actually enjoyed his character more than Phedre. I thought Carey made Phedre a little too resourceful, intuitive and intrepid. She was almost too wonderful. But I think in Joscelin she created a great character, one that involves and absorbs the reader without overwhelming. He was a brilliant replacement for Guy, whom I also thought was really great, albeit minor, character.
Tina wrote: "If this were a movie, then Joscelin would be the breakout star. I actually enjoyed his character more than Phedre. I thought Carey made Phedre a little too resourceful, intuitive and intrepid. S..."I agree. Phedre was a little too perfect. What I also like about Carey is the fact that she seemed to consider this when she wrote the second series. There is much less D'Angeline perfection in second trilogy.
Tina wrote: "If this were a movie, then Joscelin would be the breakout star. I actually enjoyed his character more than Phedre. I thought Carey made Phedre a little too resourceful, intuitive and intrepid. S..."Yay! I agree! He's my favorite!
i liked joscelin more than phedre. like a lot of people have mentioned phedre is too perfect, joscelin is much more interesting thanks to his temperament and inexperience in his role as a cassaline brother. which creates an interesting dynamic considering he's a priest and phedre is a whore (to put it bluntly). their relationship is what got me to finally love the book. personally i found the first 300 pages of kushiel's dart a bit of a bore.plus, he's a tough one. gotta respect that.
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