Stephen King Fans discussion
IT Discussions
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Problems with "It"
Chris, I think that you should finish it... The ending may be weak for the actual story of IT, but it will tie together some things from the Dark Tower series. (Don't feel bad - I wasn't a huge fan of IT either.)
I'm probably not the right person to answer your question because IT is my favourite SK book, but I really think you should finish it.If not for expecting something scary but because it's one of the best depictions of childhood and the fine and often painful transition into adulthood there is.
To me it's a story of friendship and about trying to belong somewhere when there's so much against you. About sticking together and keeping true to yourself.
Two of my favourite books, all categories, are IT and The Body (both by SK) because they capture that special and almost magical time in your life when you're still young enough to play and not have a lot of responsibility, but you're old enough to start to understand about the adult world and all that awaits you.
(edited spelling)
Katarina wrote: "I'm probably not the right person to answer your question because IT is my favourite SK book, but I really think you should finish it.If not for expecting something scary but because it's one of ..."
Exactly how i felt about the book Katarina! I actually cried at the end when you realize the gravity of all of it and it ending.
I'm with the other ladies. Next to The Gunslinger books, and The Stand, IT is one of my all time favorite books. Katarina said it all so clearly, there isn't anything to add.
Thanks a ton for the replies!I appreciate the insight Katarina, I've enjoyed the whole friendship aspect of the novel, and many scenes already come to mind in which what you said was written beautifully. I guess its just Pennywise and the whole problem at hand that they are facing that bothers me the most.
I'm sure i'll end up finishing it eventually anyways, cause i'm over halfway through, I just felt disappointed that it didn't live up to the hype I thought it had...
Different strokes for different folks though they say!
Again, thanks a ton, and I hope to join in on many future discussions here, as i've been lurking for months!
Chris, It is not one of my favorites of his. Usually anything he writes that deals with kids and coming of age goes right to the top for me, but It has one scene that ruins the entire feel of the book for me. It's oneof the very few I have not read over and over. I think you should definitely finish, like you said, you're pretty invested, but it just may be a read once only for you.
Kandice wrote: "Chris, It is not one of my favorites of his. Usually anything he writes that deals with kids and coming of age goes right to the top for me, but It has one scene that ruins the entire feel of the b..."With Bev toward the end?
That would be the scene. AND...I read this before I had pre-teen childrem. Basically, when I was one myself, and I've just never gotten over it. I have a pb and a HB copy of this book. I would never deface a HB, but I have marked that entire scene out of my pb and when I re-read it with a friend last year, I just didn't even read that part.
Kandice wrote: "That would be the scene. AND...I read this before I had pre-teen childrem. Basically, when I was one myself, and I've just never gotten over it. I have a pb and a HB copy of this book. I would neve..."I don't know why but the scene seems like a dream sequence to me and therefore seems foggy if that makes any sense
Lori wrote: " Katarina said it all so clearly, there isn't anything to add."Thanks, Lori! :)
Chris wrote: "Thanks a ton for the replies!I appreciate the insight Katarina, I've enjoyed the whole friendship aspect of the novel, and many scenes already come to mind in which what you said was written beau..."
It would be very interesting to know what you thought about it after you've finished!
Just finished!Thanks a ton for advising me to finish, i'm glad I did.
I thought the ending was much better than I had anticipated, but it was depressing thinking that all the characters will soon forget about each other completely.
I still hold many of my initial feelings about the book, and I don't think i'd ever read it again, but it was still an interesting journey in itself.
Oh, and about that scene with Beverly at the end...What the HELL!!!?? Completely caught me off guard and seemed out of place.
Chris, that's the scene I have actually blacked out in my pb and will NOT read again. As much as I love King writing about kids, I don't want to read that again. I say that with the full knowledge of what that scene represents.
Anyone know if he ever addressed that scene with his readers? Maybe we ought to send him a question about it and see if he responds.
Re the famous Bev scene: Yeah, I don’t care for it either. I don’t like It very much anyway, and then this horrible scene is just all kinds of wrong.Also, we don’t even get any juicy details about Richie Tozier’s performance! ;)
i read it but only vaguely remember it..what happens with the Bev scene? hahahurry someone ease my curious child mind:P
The thing that sort of bothered me about the Beverly Incident is that, everyone had their special "powers"--Bill had his stutter, Richie had his jokes, Mike had that bird book (I think it was Mike), Stan had his inhaler, Ben had his...obesity? lol, and Bev had her--wait for it--VaJAYJAY! It just seems weak that the one female has to use her sexuality to pull the team together.
Cindydee wrote: "i read it but only vaguely remember it..what happens with the Bev scene? hahahurry someone ease my curious child mind:P"
SPOILER...
Basically near the end after IT has been ousted the first time, Beverly thinks that in order for their bond of friendship to remain intact, they all must have sex with her on the spot in the sewer.
Its's essentially an underage gang-bang with an 11 year old girl losing her virginity. It felt weird and unnecessary.
^^It was in thir underground clubhouse, wasn't it? Well, wherever it happened it was TMI.
Chris said "I still hold many of my initial feelings about the book, and I don't think i'd ever read it again, but it was still an interesting journey in itself.Oh, and about that scene with Beverly at the end...What the HELL!!!?? Completely caught me off guard and seemed out of place."
That just about sums up how I feel about 'IT' - seems to be a popular read amongst most SK fans, and I read it to see what the fuss was all about, but found it forgettable, which is usually not the case with Stevie's books. And yes, the Beverly Incident didn't seem to fit in, not to mention its inappropriateness (god thats a long word)
I seem to be the only one who had no problems with that scene. *ducks*
Ah right, I woke up this morning and it hit me, i was like I REMEMBER NOWI wasn't traumatized while reading it which was a good sign, but it didn't really belong or feel necessary in any way either.
Katarina wrote: "I seem to be the only one who had no problems with that scene. *ducks*"Mostly I just assumed it was supposed to be a way for them to rebond and connect and moved on. It was a momentary wtf really the rest of the story was too solid for me to blow it off or think it out too much.
I understood that it was about bonding and maturing all together. They shared this huge "first", but still...I didn't like it.
Kandice wrote: "I understood that it was about bonding and maturing all together. They shared this huge "first", but still...I didn't like it."Oh no argument there. I'm just saying I had to choose between glossing it over in my head and taking a long moment to think about it in my head. I preferred to move on.
I've pretty much stayed out of this discussion, and The Shining for much the same reason. Which is no one agrees with me. I have no illusions that you all are going to change your minds and agree with me now, but I just thought i'd put it out there.IMO it was a necessary means to an end. The boys were all disoriented, at a loss, and couldn't get their bearings stright. This is what she did to calm them, and get them back on track. Maybe it was a bit excessive, but she was the most mature of them all, so she did what she felt she had to do. They all came out alive and no one remembered after a while what they did in the tunnels. Only when they had to remember, as adults,and did it really matter what she did? IMO I don't think so.
Would I read IT again? Yes I would, i've read it at least 5 or 6 times. That part doesn't bother me one way or the other. If I can read about cars killing people, dogs going crazy, and vamps, surely that one part in that book can be read as well.
"Hey hey Susan Day have you killed any kids today?"
from Insomnia by Stephen King
Lori wrote: "I've pretty much stayed out of this discussion, and The Shining for much the same reason. Which is no one agrees with me. I have no illusions that you all are going to change your minds and agree w..."Bingo Lori that's exactly the point i came to when I decided to move on.
Mary wrote: "It just seems weak that the one female has to use her sexuality to pull the team together. "I think you have a valid point here. That is the one thing that would bother me about it. The fact that they all had their "faults" or quirks. Beverly's is that she's a girl.
But then one might also "question" Mike's reason for being a part of the group on the same grounds. Is it only because he's black? (Stan was the one with the bird book and Eddie the one with asthma).
But I'm not bothered about the fact that they had sex, I understood it in the same way as many of you have already mentioned. Only it didn't bother me.
Katarina wrote: "Mary wrote: "It just seems weak that the one female has to use her sexuality to pull the team together. "I think you have a valid point here. That is the one thing that would bother me about it. ..."
Actually Bev's quirk was being from a poor home that featured an abusive father and her gift seemed to be insight and not well...that. I believe they found out she was a crack shot.
With Mike the librarian and African American his character knew a ton of the town's history and in 50s America being black was enough to make you an outcast. in the Maine of that era it was even worse.
Thanks for the reply Amanda! You're absolutely right about that. I think though (and I don't mean this as criticism of SK or the book) that when King put that little group of people (The Losers Club) together, he must have thought about what types of characters he needed. What would make a good gang of "outcasts"? Well, you have a fat kid, a weak kid, a kid with a mild "handicap" (stuttering in this case), a loud-mouth kid who always gets into trouble, a Jewish kid, a black kid and a girl. One could argue that it's a bit stereotypical.
And if that was all there was to them, I'd agree. BUT! King turns these typecast kids into something else. They ALL have other qualities that are so much more important. Both to them as characters but also to the narrative.
My point is (perhaps not so obvious in my previous post) that yes, it's rather stereotypical to have a girl in that club just for the sake of having a girl. And it becomes more emphasized by the act they're performing since... you know, it probably wouldn't have happened if she wasn't there with them (can you imagine the outcry if SK had put that scene in the book WITHOUT a female character? That would have been brave indeed.)
So: like I think I've mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread. IT is Uncle Stevie's best book in my opinion, but it's still ok to pick it apart and question things. Many of you have mentioned that you've liked the book except for "The Bev Scene". That's fine! I didn't have a problem with it, but I might question why there is only one girl in The Losers Club. Or why just one black kid?
I think the reason for King to choose rather stereotypical characters (and he tends to do this in many of his books), is because he likes to put his readers in that "familiar zone" when you pretty much know from the start who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. Or who's gonna get their revenge and who will get their come-uppance.
And then when we think we're safe, when we think we have it figured out, he likes to surprise us. Sometimes a lot and sometimes just a little. Isn't that why we love him?
(edited for clarity)
One more word on the Bev scene in "IT" -- If you remember, Pennywise came after her primarily in a sexual sense. I'll never forget her father bellowing, "Bev" - come here - I need to know if you're still a virgin and I KNOW HOW TO TELL!!!!!" That's when Bev ran towards her friends, and is an extremely neat bit of foreshadowing towards the "Bev" scene. - Also, she grows up to marry an extremely abusive man -- Just like Dear Ol' Dad
Bondama wrote: "One more word on the Bev scene in "IT" -- If you remember, Pennywise came after her primarily in a sexual sense. I'll never forget her father bellowing, "Bev" - come here - I need to know if you'r..."Well if you think about it that's the thing Bev was terrified was going to happen. There was always an edge of that there and it made sense to the character. When she remembers her childhood she is furious that she forgot and let herself be trapped in a relationship with someone like that.
Yeah and in the end she gets Ben. A new slim, rich, ready to kick-ass, and still in love with her BEN.
I haven't read IT since I was a teenager in the nineties, but I do remember HATING "the Bev scene". At the time, it ruined the book for me, and became the only story where I enjoyed the movie more than the book.I think perhaps I should revisit the book now and see what I think. While I will never hate Tim Curry as Pennywise, the years have gone by and my opinion of the film has changed for the worse.
I just finished IT and what shall I say? I'm no fan of the "Bev-scene" either. I just can't imagine children their age doing it. I tried, but the visualization always ended in grown ups. Don't know why that is. The scene did not bother me, but I found it too hard ti imagine and that kind of annoyed me, because I was able to visualize almost everything and this... brought me out of the book. (It's quite hard to describe that feeling in a language which I did not grow up with)
Katniss wrote: "... brought me out of the book."Exactly. Well said, Katniss.
you know i think its supposed to have a weird dream like quality
Thanks, Mary! Amanda: I agree with you about that dream like quality, but it's nonetheless dream like in a very adult way, which, in my opinion does not fit into their age and previous behavior and thinking...
Katniss wrote: "Thanks, Mary! Amanda: I agree with you about that dream like quality, but it's nonetheless dream like in a very adult way, which, in my opinion does not fit into their age and previous behavior a..."
You know having thought about it maybe it was sort of the way you remember things from when you were a kid. That odd way we see things in our head. It's such a surreal scene and it doesn't linger in your thoughts even though you remember it happening in the story.
I do not like the Bev scene either. But then I first read IT when I was a kid. I was reading and going "Huh? What's going on? What's she doing? Oh....... Eeeew!"And when I read it again years later, I got the point of the scene, but still didn't like it. When I reread IT I usually skip that bit.
But I love IT in general, its one of my favourites and the first Stephen King book I read.
Actually I thought the scene was a powerful bond. And it wasnt about the sex but the INTIMACY shared that had the power. I thought it made perfect sense in this context and was actually moving. And I LOVE this book
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Terri!! You're one of the few people who seem to understand that "the Bev scene" was about intimacy, rather than sex. Being halfway between a child and a woman, Bev couldn't think of any other way to bring the group together and revive their "mystical" bond. When I read this, I felt enormously proud of the character of Bev for "sharing" in this most intimate of ways. And yes, it was tremendously moving. Not .... eeeew -- but oh, I understand now.
Bondama, I don't think anyone here doesn't "understand" the Bev scene. Some people just find the idea of 12 year olds engaging in sexual intercourse, no matter what the motive, to be a little off-putting.
Mary wrote: "Bondama, I don't think anyone here doesn't "understand" the Bev scene. Some people just find the idea of 12 year olds engaging in sexual intercourse, no matter what the motive, to be a little off-p..."That's it! I do get the point about intimacy, but nonetheless - I can't picture it and that's the problem with this scene for me. It interferes with the story. For me.
<---------OLD FUDDY DUDDYI "get" the intimacy aspect as well. I feel a bit silly for being so put off by their ages. I've been on a Historical Fiction kick, and girls were married at that age in the past, but, TODAY it just...I can't just look at the intimacy aspect. Sorry.
I didn't mind "the Bev scene" at all. I mean, personally, I thought it was probably far fetched. But really - we're talking about a demented, bizarre clown who lives in the sewer and prays on kids! So - far fetched is okay. LOL. It was my second favorite book of King's right behind The Stand. Actually, it was the only one I've read that scared the living crap out of me! I have to admit though that when I read "the Bev scene" I actually laughed out loud. I've read 40+ books of King's, and it was the only time I said, "Yep. This was written by a dude." It wasn't the sex itself or the fact that the whole scene was included, it was just the way it was written. I LOVED the book though.
Misty wrote: "I didn't mind "the Bev scene" at all. I mean, personally, I thought it was probably far fetched. But really - we're talking about a demented, bizarre clown who lives in the sewer and prays on kid..."It's also my second favorite next to the Stand and is one of the very few that scared me. Remember that scene with the refrigerator when it appears? Wow that was scary.
I don't know if it was high expectations or what, but I just cannot seem to get into "It" like I can any of his other books. I expected to love it, because his longer books usually appeal to me more.
I'm more than half-way done, after the rock fight, and I just don't feel as "sucked-in" to the story and characters as I ususally do.
I guess my question is, would it be worth finishing? I figure no because I heard the ending is weak compared to the story. Also, it seems like the King books I enjoy most are the ones where the middle/character build-up really appeal to me and pull me in, not necessarily the ending (The Stand).
To me, it just seems like Pennywise is gimmicky and not very scary at all. The story just seems so absurd to me, and I cant really relate to the characters at all.
I don't know why i'm making a big deal out of finishing a book, its just that i've never really given up on a fiction novel, especially a King one!
EDIT: maybe it'd help if I listed my favorite King novels.
The Stand, The Dark Tower series, Salem's Lot, Running Man, Long Walk, and a TON others, which is why it kills me to not enjoy one of his so called "best" novels.