Stephen King Fans discussion
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Problems with "It"
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André wrote: "Hey guys, just wanted to add my two cents on this scene as I've just finished this magnificent book a couple days ago! I've read through most of the comments and there's a lot of valid points on bo..."Shoot...it's not there anymore...i would love to know what King said about this story!
One final comment--I got it fromStephen Kings web page....the library had a "tunnel" to cross from the children's to the adult section. so interesting! And something I completely missed in the book!
Christy wrote: "One final comment--I got it fromStephen Kings web page....the library had a "tunnel" to cross from the children's to the adult section. so interesting! And something I completely missed in the book!"I believe that tunnel is more than one of his books. He describes libraries so many times, but I'm sure it appears another place. I know it wasn't Three Past Midnight: The Library Policeman because I just read that one, but I'm going to look for it in others. I always liked the symbolism.
Kandice wrote: "Christy wrote: "he explained that they that scene was there because what they do is meant to destroy their childhood so they can escape the grasp of the monster. i didn't feel like arguing with him..."Yes, if he's such a great writer than he could find a way to steer clear of such a disgusting scene...graphic or not...it sure is in my head. To me children having sex doesn't make the grow up fast.....it makes them troubled kinds. I guess that's one way for "some" men to think, though I have talked to plenty who don't like that scene at all either. When you have to push a translation of what the scene supposedly means....ugh. it's still yucky.
Christy wrote: "Kandice wrote: "Christy wrote: "he explained that they that scene was there because what they do is meant to destroy their childhood so they can escape the grasp of the monster. i didn't feel like ..."I'm a big fan of King's frank portrayal of intimate scenes, and IT is one of my favorite King works... but this scene bothers me a lot, for all the obvious reasons and a few maybe not so obvious. But I do have to say that I can't think of any action that Bev or anyone on the team could have taken that would have such coming of age implications, that would also be as unifying and deadly serious. Some kind of blood ritual, killing something they came across or just sharing their blood would not have done it... everyone scars themselves in some way... I don't think so. So the scene does work very well dramatically. But still... And if the roles were reversed and it was a 12-year-old boy doing this to initiate his gang of six 11 - 12-year-old serious girls before they set off on the final stages of a deadly quest, he, the readers, and the author would all be arrested.
Kandice wrote: "Christy wrote: "One final comment--I got it fromStephen Kings web page....the library had a "tunnel" to cross from the children's to the adult section. so interesting! And something I completely mi..."Let me know where you find it!
Nick wrote: "Christy wrote: "Kandice wrote: "Christy wrote: "he explained that they that scene was there because what they do is meant to destroy their childhood so they can escape the grasp of the monster. i d..."Glad to see a man comment on this!!! I agree with everything you said.
Christy wrote: "Nick wrote: "Christy wrote: "Kandice wrote: "Christy wrote: "he explained that they that scene was there because what they do is meant to destroy their childhood so they can escape the grasp of the..."Thanks, Christy. Still, I applaud King for having the guts to write a scene like this, knowing he would surely be criticised.
It hadn't occurred to me, but Nick is so right. Had the gender tables been reversed the scene would have caused more discomfort and outrage than it has. What does that say about us? O_o
Kandice wrote: "It hadn't occurred to me, but Nick is so right. Had the gender tables been reversed the scene would have caused more discomfort and outrage than it has. What does that say about us? O_o"Wow, and I thought everyone would disagree with me on that point. Okay here's what really bothers me about that scene... he dedicated this book to his children, which is wonderful and totally understandable and appropriate... except for that scene.
I think the scene fit perfectly within the context of the book but I think this book is nearly perfect. I think we get hung up on the sex part but it is really about the intimacy. Look at what all these kids had been through at this point. All of their home lives are terrible, the situation with "Pennywise" is terrifying. The time of their lives when they discover each other and tell their experiences are perfection. The reason why they have as much success as they do is because of their bond with each other. Their are other forces at work here other than just the kids. When It is damaged and retreats then the bond that holds them together starts to diminish as well. The only way to bond them together to get them out is to perform a very intimate act of love for each other. The intimacy of course doesn't last forever it only lasts long enough to get them out safely. These kids aren't just normal 11 year-old kids, they are heroes and in that time they were perfection together.
ElleEm wrote: "I think the scene fit perfectly within the context of the book but I think this book is nearly perfect. I think we get hung up on the sex part but it is really about the intimacy. Look at what all ..."You know ElleEm, I was hoping someone could come up with an explanation like yours that would put that scene in the right context. Yours works pretty well. Thanks.
I totally disagree.The book is about a loss of innocence and this scene exemplifies that. Bev is expressing her love and deep bond to the other Losers and ElleEm has put her finger on that.
A role reversal would not have worked in context as Bev is the only girl? The act unites the group and solidifies It's fear of them.
”I wasn't really thinking of the sexual aspect of it. The book dealt with childhood and adulthood --1958 and Grown Ups. The grown ups don't remember their childhood. None of us remember what we did as children--we think we do, but we don't remember it as it really happened. Intuitively, the Losers knew they had to be together again. The sexual act connected childhood and adulthood. It's another version of the glass tunnel that connects the children's library and the adult library. Times have changed since I wrote that scene and there is now more sensitivity to those issues. - Stephen KingAnd a rationalization I found online:
”There are several ceremonies that are communions throughout the book. At one point, each Loser takes a puff of Eddie's inhaler. The smokehouse. It's as if these young people are unconsciously - or consciously - searching for ways to focus their power and turn it to the White.
On page 837, Ben thinks to himself "I love Beverly Marsh and she has power over me. She loves Bill Denbrough and so he has power over her... Superman has power, except when there's Kryptonite around. Batman has power, even though he can't fly or see through walls. My mom has power over me, and her boss down in the mill has power over her. Everyone has some...The power of the silver, the power of the slugs -- where does power like that come from? Where does any power come from? How do you get it? How do you use it?"
The ceremony that they performed after the battle with It was a way for the Losers to do two things: first, leave the tunnels, regain the personas they were in the outside world, away from It; second, bond in the most intimate and primal of ways. The act of sex is the beginning of adulthood, the end of childhood. Under other circumstances, each of the boys would have shared that moment with a different girl or woman; this was an act of unity and a forging of a bond that would bring them back to Derry, as if the Turtle knew their work was incomplete there. Unknown
Even after sharing both of these, I don’t like the scene and feel it simply doesn’t belong. I’m not a good enough writer to suggest an alternative that serves the same purpose, but that’s why I can’t make a living on my imagination!
We'll see if the scene is included in the new film adaptation. I'm betting it won't.
Vheissu wrote: "We'll see if the scene is included in the new film adaptation. I'm betting it won't."They said it would be.
Miljan David wrote: "They said it would be."Fascinating. Can you direct me to the source of this announcement? I wonder how the MPAA would rate a film with such a scene in it?
I'm kind of worried for the new movie. I've watched the old one, and I am on page 400 of the book right now. It is my first book of King's, and I love it! The original movie is nothing compared to the book, so I'm curious to see what happens with the new one.
I think that Bev's relationship with the boys is imperative for her (both as a child and adult). Two of the major male figures in her life abuse her.
I'm really glad that I'm not the only one who had a problem with the whole Beverly Incident. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the book or rereading it, and I don't need to skip the scene, it just seemed like it was weird and out of place and unnecessary. Even given why it happened, doing it to take sexual agency over herself and to bond with everyone and get everybody back on track again, there remain other ways to do that without a scene like this. That said, it just surprised me and was kind of a "wtf" moment rather than actually specifically bothering me or leaving me disturbed in any way.(I realize I'm like 80 years late to the party in mentioning this but I really am just so pleased to know I'm not alone in feeling that way, because for a long time I've been literally afraid to mention it anywhere [except once when I reviewed it on my site and nobody noticed the review anyway] for fear that nobody else felt the same and I'd just get dumped on).
It remains and likely always will remain one of my favorite Stephen King books. So, I'm legit not trying to knock his writing or the book or anything!
I've heard others use this same argument and it bugs me because sex is not the ONLY thing that ruins innocence and ends childhood. I feel those that believe it does put too much importance on sex in general. Nothing will ever convince me he couldn't have come up with an alternative scene with the same result.
I'm glad we agree!