Banned Books discussion
Group Guidelines
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Thank you Kelly. Your guidelines sound very appropriate.
The guidelines are facts we all should abide by at any time - thanks for posting!
Yes, Thank you Kelly! This also corresponds to Goodreads' TOS.
Mod
Thank you for this!! I had stopped posting on forums because more often than not I would receive insulting remarks because I liked or did not like some work or another... It's a nice reminder!! =)
Jennifer, I'm sorry that's happened to you. It is not supposed to happen at Goodreads. I've been extraordinarily lucky but I know that's not true for all. I do think Goodreads is friendlier than most online forums but I don't have a huge amount of experience; I'm too addicted to this place to do much else online the last 3 years.
I appreciate the fact that you have guidelines. It is a very good idea.
Good idea and good guidelines.Good job Kelly!
Thanks. These are some good rules for our group.
Mod
Here's to many more interesting and multi-sided discussions!
That's right Kelly and I are not supressing multi-sided discussions and we believe in your freedom to say what you want to about books and banned books. We don't care for people who want to abuse this by verbally attacking others without cause. So Happy Posting :)Wes
Without diversity of thought, new ideas are challenged to bloom. It is wonderful to have a debate with someone who has a different view, opinion, idea,belief, etc. So much can come of it. So, I like you philosophy about keep the debate but ditch the berate!
Kelly wrote: "This group is against censorship but we do not condone hate speech within the forum. We want everyone to feel safe to post opinions here, so here are a few guidelines that must be followed:Trea..."
Very reasonable. Thanks for info.
Mod
Kelly wrote: "...or comments derogatory to another’s ... belief system."What denotes a comment that would be derogatory to someones belief system?
This seems like a tricky area, where one might be overly polite and not challenge an idea for fear of dissent being seen as a derogatory attack. One can be respectful of a person, but critical of their ideas. Derogatory can mean "expressive of a low-opinion", which may be suitable for ideas that are ill-formed or without evidence.
Also, phrases like "inflammatory post" seem like a close parallel to "inflammatory literature".
Isn't the point of challenging censorship that people DON'T have the right to NOT be offended?
(Philip Pullman speaking about this issue, [http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.c...])
Now, I am not recommending or saying that any discussion should devolve into ad hominems or that we should speedily try and prove Godwin's law. I just want to point out the potential hypocrisy that could come out of it. Saying that, I want to reaffirm that I think the individual should be respected.
But not necessarily all of their ideas.
Oh, and I realise you said "Keep the arguments restricted to books and ideas, don’t attack people."/, but I just wanted to emphasise that even ideas that might be precious or dear to someone should still be up for debate.
I am going to take a guess that you didn't see the incident that was the casue for this. Yes, people can have different ideas and things can be up for debate however there is a line between debating and just plain ranting. If one put curse words or slurs in their statements then those are rants. It is an unfortnate problem of Goodreads that there are people who instead of debating just what to use the site to scream hate speech.
Hate speech is also when you say everyone of a group is something when it is obvious they not and refuse to listen to any attempt of people making correction. Such as the person who this was directed at saying all Christians without recoginzing that statement included people from Quakers to Catholic.
The person was getting so hateful that other members of the group were going to quit. Fortunately since this is a side group so the hateful person was cut off and the group was able to go on.
I have seen though on the general boards disscussion just completely shut down becasue of one hateful person. A button I wear and agree with is that sticks and stones may break our bones but names will break our spirit.
Yes, one should defend free speech but, there are also common sense limits. It has often been said, that screaming fire in a crowded movie theater is not free speech. However with the recent case of the picket of military funnerls being granted free speech protection I wonder if even that standard is going to be pushed aside.
Words and ideas are precious. However people are even more so. There is also a difference between writing a book that a person can choose to read or not read and pushing you way into an conversation that people are engaged in. In the first case a person can avoid the book but, if they are already engaged in the conversation they can't until it is too late.
Yeah, I missed that particular debate, though I've seen enough of the kind to understand what you mean.I was looking for a clarification and got a very nice one. Thank you.
Mod
I was looking for a clarification and got a very nice one. Thank you."
You should be glad you did not have to witness this particular debate. It was quite nasty and any type of suggestions made to the person who instigated the name calling were met with more tirades (name calling is actually an understatement, he was quite hateful to anyone who even remotely believed in a higher power, he called me a jerk and a moron because I stated that I believed in theistic evolution). It's too bad a group like this needs guidelines, but this particular instance made it necessary.
message 24:
by
Kelly (Maybedog), Minister of Illicit Reading
(last edited Apr 10, 2014 11:56AM)
(new)
Mod
I'm going to deliberately leave it vague because there are two moderators with vastly different points of view who both respect one another's opinions, a system of warnings before any punitive action, and a group of very rational people to help us make sure it remains fair.
Thanks again for posting!
Let me guess, the problem was a poster (poseur?) called Xox?He (for convenience) has misunderstood something foundational. Confusing using expletives with defending free speech and fighting against censorship. It's... frustrating and confusing.
Mod
He (for convenience) has misunderstood something foundational. Confusing using expletives with defending free speech and fighting agai..."
You guessed right.
Thank you so much for posting up these rules Kelly!! Many people have different opinions about books or certain events, but no one should attack another person for what they believe in and what they think. It's not fair to everyone that they cannot say anything that is on their minds when a person attacks the other person's opinions.
Nice guidelines. I was not part of that particular thread conversation, but I have to say after reading it and thinking about commenting...I decided not to and almost disjoined this group.
jennbunny wrote: "Nice guidelines. I was not part of that particular thread conversation, but I have to say after reading it and thinking about commenting...I decided not to and almost disjoined this group."I have also seen that discussion and I was glad that I didn't take part in that discussion since the person was being very disrespectful towards everyone in the group.
Mod
Jennybunny, I love the word "disjoined." It's so much better than saying that someone just "left."
Kelly wrote: "Thank you everyone for your kinds words. We've actually had at least three instances that got really bad but it was the one with Xox that made me create/steal the rules. Jennybunny, I love the wo..."
Yeah, I agree Kelly that saying "disjoined" is much better than saying "left." :D
Well....you know I try to make up my own vocabulary from time to time :)
Mod
Sensible guidelines which delineate expectations within the forum. Not to be presumptuous, but perhaps a link to valid/invalid forms of argumentation would be useful for those who have not been exposed to formal logic.
Mod
No sarcasm. Just thought perhaps an article describing how to critically evaluate without personal attacks, appeals to emotion, etc. might interest some. Not trying to be snarky. Certainly not meant to be a derogatory comment on the group or its members.
Mod
In the first, a blanket value judgment, all Christians are condemned. In the second, I'm saying that a prevailing mode of thought by certain religious people hurts me personally. I'm not saying I hate them, I'm not saying that they're bad people, or that they're wrong in their interpretations of the text. I'm stating my opinion about a controversial subject without being rude to members of the group who feel differently than I do. We could then have a debate about what the bible teaches about homosexuality and various interpretations (although that's not really a topic for this group, I wouldn't stop the discussion but I might move it to a different thread if it's taken us off track).
So I don't think that I can point out a specific place where there are guidelines that fit our group. I suggest using the model, "Would I say that to my boss or teacher?" I've had great bosses who I can have in depth philosophical, political, and religious discussions with but I would never say something like, "You're an idiot if you believe that."
Does that help?
OK.I have read this thread and as a young 14-year- old-,I have one question.
Lets just say that a thread has to do with the bible.
What will happen if someone is explaining their faith.
I am trying to decipher the above reply.
Please,can someone explain it.
-Aaron
Kelly wrote: "how do I leave this group?"On the group main page under the title you can edit your membership.
trying all over again. groups still don't let me leave. I am still having issues editing my membership
Mod
I have read this thread and as a young 14-year- old-,I have one question.
Lets just say that a thread has to do with the bible.
What will happen if someone is explaining their faith.
I am tryin..."
I was inactive for several years due to family and personal reasons but I am back.
Aaron, I'm sorry this answer won't help because it's 8 years out of date, but what you said would be a perfectly fine post if it's relevant to the discussion. If not, I would probably just ask that you take it to another group since it doesn't fit this group's focus.
message 45:
by
Kelly (Maybedog), Minister of Illicit Reading
(last edited Sep 21, 2023 06:36PM)
(new)
Mod
This isn't the right thread for this. I've moved it to the thread
Questions About This Group
Treat other members courteously, as though you were a guest in their home.
Nobody has the right to abuse anyone verbally, to spam the forum, or make offensive remarks, including but not limited to posts that include racism, sexism, or comments derogatory to another’s sexuality or belief system. This includes value judgments about social groups the people in the group might belong to since insulting the group insults the people who are members of that group.
Arguments are a part of the forum experience. Opinions on this site are diverse and sometimes directly polarized. We all love reading threads where there are many opposing ideas, but any differences must be addressed with respect.
We will not tolerate when individuals go beyond these boundaries—it’s not fun to read and destroys the community atmosphere. Keep the arguments restricted to books and ideas, don’t attack people.
WARNINGS AND REPERCUSSIONS
Abuses to the above guidelines will result in an immediate warning. Continued abuses will result in a second, and final, warning and a deletion of the inflammatory post. Persistent abuse after the two warnings will result in a permanent ban from Banned Books.