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[Zack]

Sorry to hear that Leslie, hope everyone is staying safe.

[[deleted user]]

Thank you Belly and Zack :)

[Guy]

All the best, Leslie. And hope the friends and family are all safe and sound and dry.

[Ryan]

Thoughts from Australia too, Leslie. Fingers crossed for you and your family :)

[[deleted user]]

Thank you Guy and Ryan :) Still hoping for the rain to stop soon.

[Paulina]

I hope everything is good Leslie!

[Paulina]

Guys, I also have a writing dilemma. There's this book idea that I've been thinking about writing every now and then, but I'm not sure if I should. It's about a boy who comes to this country with his parents and his dad is an alcoholic and the parents get divorced. The mother meets a new man who seems to be a good father for the boy until he also becomes an alcoholic. The mother also leaves that man. The son thinks everything will be good now. Then the mother abuses her son as a result of everything. The son eventually grows up and finds happiness and has a wife and kids. Does this even sound like a good story?

This idea is inspired by several things, like crime television shows, news, and a real life person that I know. I want to write this book because I think it is a story that needs to be shared and it offers a look into how difficult life can be. The reason that I don't want to make this book is because I think the real life person would realize that this book is based on them a lot and they might get offended if I wrote this about them because they're kind of a private person. I couldn't get a straight answer from them about how they felt about a book like this. What do you think I should do?

[Paulina]

Belly wrote: "I think having the father and the new father figure both being alcoholics is a bit much (even though it might be true in real life). Also, if you can't change the details enough to not risk angerin..."

For the person I based it off of, it was actually an unfortunate coincidence for both of the father figures being that way. I've been thinking about using a different character instead and still using bits and pieces of the original inspiration, but changing a lot of the plot. I feel like this could be a really good and important story, but I feel like no matter how much I would change it, the person would still know it's about them and I feel like they would just get upset with me. It just feels like it could be a really important story to share so there's my dilemma.

[[deleted user]]

Paulina wrote: "I hope everything is good Leslie!"

Thanks, Paulina :)

I'd have to agree with Belly. Unless they give you a go signal to write a story inspired by them, you have to think of ways to change the situations in your story.

[Caitlan]

I think that, if you still really feel the urge to write it, you should go for it. Obviously, you should change names to protect people, but you could put in a simple dedication like so: "Thanks to (persons name)."

[Paulina]

Leslie wrote: "Paulina wrote: "I hope everything is good Leslie!"

Thanks, Paulina :)

I'd have to agree with Belly. Unless they give you a go signal to write a story inspired by them, you have to think of ways t..."

The person doesn't mind their story being shared, but they sort of worry that the bad characters in their story that are based off of their lives will notice it's about them and in turn it will ruin the relationships they managed to rebuilt. They kind of did a yes but no thing. So I've been thinking about severely changing the story instead and keeping the moral and the tone of the story the same, but changing the character's problems in the story to something totally different, but it still feels wrong. I guess talking about it helped me answer my own question. Maybe a teenager who has issues with bullying? I feel like that one has been done a lot. Or someone who gets kidnapped and is rescued but has to deal with the aftermath of that? I'm kind of liking the second idea a bit.

[Paulina]

Kat wrote: "I think that, if you still really feel the urge to write it, you should go for it. Obviously, you should change names to protect people, but you could put in a simple dedication like so: "Thanks to..."

I think I may just try to write a story that keeps the same morals and tone of the story similar, but it will deal with a different plot.

[Paulina]

Belly wrote: "For the person I based it off of, it was actually an unfortunate coincidence for both of the father figures being that way.

Even so, I don't think it will work well in fiction. It's so bleak that ..."

Well I had a lot of character development in mind and the two men were very different from each other and a lot of other issues also went into the story, but I see what you mean.

[Paulina]

Belly wrote: "Paulina, be careful with this "the moral." Concentrate on the story above all else when writing it. "The moral" shouldn't be something you're thinking about when writing."

Yes, I know. I think maybe I'm using the wrong word. I want the story to be realistic and to deal with a real life issue. I also want the story to feel sort of sad, but to also be uplifting, which is what I had in mind with the original story. I sort of want the reader to read the story and understand that even though life may be hard, it will be okay, that's what I meant by moral I suppose.

[Paulina]

It's the overall idea I'm going for if I were to write this story, but I think that this theme could easily change or have more added to it. I think I'm probably going to forget about this project for now, maybe I'll come back to it or maybe I won't. I'd rather finish my other novel first. I'm in the self editing and revising process and I just can't push myself to do it.

[Paulina]

I meant to say it is finished, other than the revising and editing. Sorry if I'm not making 100% sense, I haven't gone to sleep this night yet (its 10 am where I am now). I have insomnia or something I think. I've had it for years. Anyway, I've looked through the novel several times but I keep finding random typos or things that don't really belong in the story and I can't really seem to focus on it anymore. I've been working on this story for a long time and it's just the editing and revising that's taking a long time. When you edit your work, do you go after the grammar/spelling mistakes first or plot/character mistakes first? If it takes a long time to find an answer for a particular section, do you go on to the next section and come back to this one later?

[Paulina]

I usually try to fix whatever mistakes I see. I did cut a few small sections, but I mean in terms of literary rules, sometimes I'm not sure if something is written properly but its an important part to the story so I usually just leave it to fix it later. I still need to look into the books on grammar and punctuation you and a few other people suggested to me. It's more so that I lack the motivation to sit down and edit the novel because I feel like it's going to take a long time to properly make the novel free of any mistakes.

[Paulina]

Do you force yourself to edit a certain amount every day or every week or do you just wait until you feel like working on it?

[[deleted user]]

It is always more tedious to edit a story but don't be discouraged, Paulina. If you're feeling frustrated, just leave it alone for a week or more and do something else :))

[Guy]

This is why finding someone you trust to read it and help with the editing is important. Even having 'just' a second set of eyes read it will bring to yourself a different focus. Also hearing what has been written can be helpful. Is there someone you can read it to? This is the nuts and bolts of 'real' writing, what separates the novel writers from the wannabes.

[Paulina]

Leslie, I've left it alone for months at a time, which is why I really want to finish my novel. It just seems like when I try to edit, I end up not having the motivation to.

Guy, I think I have someone I can read this to or who can take a look at my actual writing.

[Paulina]

Belly wrote: "Paulina wrote: "Do you force yourself to edit a certain amount every day or every week or do you just wait until you feel like working on it?"

If you want to get it done, you should force yourself..."

It seems easier said than done to me, but I really need to work on this novel.

[Guy]

Paulina, the 'trick' of it, if you can do it, is to approach the re-write with a sense of joy and excitement. Think of it as the means by which your writing is honed, your skills improved, the tale clarified and goal accomplished. Don't think about the final goal as THE destination, because it is too far away and will depress you. Rather, look at each paragraph, each page as an opportunity to make your writing sing. That you have an end goal in mind floats above you as a kind of invisible guide. It becomes the process of writing, which is then becomes doable. The old 'a thousand mile journey is done in single steps.' Or words to that effect.

Of course, I have an unfinished novel, so you can now discount my suggestion as mere poppycock.

[Paulina]

Guy wrote: "Paulina, the 'trick' of it, if you can do it, is to approach the re-write with a sense of joy and excitement. Think of it as the means by which your writing is honed, your skills improved, the tale..."

That sounds like a good way to go about editing.

Do you write an outline or anything for your writing and if you do, how detailed is it? Do you only focus on the plot in the outline?

[[deleted user]]

I write plot outlines but I just do that to check the consistency of my story. It's not detailed, I usually write keywords and I don't rely on it that much but I'm not saying that you should do this too.

I'm not sure if this would work for you but this is what I do most of the time: I ask my friends to read what I have written and those who did are the ones who push/motivate me to finish the story. Since I can't do all things alone, I ask people to help me. As for the editing/revising, you won't see the end result if you skip the tedious part but look at it in a different perspective, like what Guy said.

[Paulina]

I tried writing an outline before, but I never finished it. I usually also write key words that summarize what happened in the scene.

Right now I guess I just have to push myself to finish editing this story. Does reading it out loud work better for you then reading it in your head?

[[deleted user]]

Yes it does.

[C. J., Cool yet firm like ice]

Also reading it out loud you can spot typos easier than if you read it in your head assuming what was in the sentences. Really works.

Now hear is something off topic. I discovered making a dessert with little money!

All I did was take a few spoonfuls of Cookies and Cream ice cream and then place into it a frosted Chocolate Fudge Pop-Tart that was toasted and voila! A ghetto Hot Fudge Sundae! (I really did make it and it was delicious!).

[[deleted user]]

Paulina wrote: "I tried writing an outline before, but I never finished it. I usually also write key words that summarize what happened in the scene.

Right now I guess I just have to push myself to finish editing..."

Some writers write a plot outline before writing a story, in my case, I write the outline before I start another chapter. Do what you think will work best for you, try to enjoy what you do (including the horrible parts harhar) because writing is supposed to be fun :) And of course, this is just my opinion.

CJ, now I'm craving for an ice cream. My little girl is celebrating her 4th birthday today. Cupcakes for everyone, lol!

[Paulina]

Thanks for the advice Leslie and CJ. I might read it out loud to myself, when it's not two in the morning haha. I started making an outline after I was finished with the novel already to make sure everything was good. I like writing a lot and I do find it fun. It's just the editing that's got me down, but it's good to know I'm not the only one who finds tedious!

Also, that sounds good CJ lol.

Leslie, happy birthday to your daughter!

[Daniel J.]

When you read out loud be sure and read with enthusiasm. A monotonous read will expose very little.

Also, try to find the joy in revision. Yes there will be times when it’ll seem like the devil’s work, but revision is where great writing comes from.

[Paulina]

I'll try reading it out loud.
How long does it take you guys to revise your work? How many times do you actually look over it before you think it's done?

[Daniel]

I'm having a hard time understanding why it would be such a problem for both father figures to suffer from the same disease. From a literary standpoint, I think I can see what Belly is saying-- in fiction, it may look forced. An objective reader may not feel as affected if they doubt the sincerity of the situation.

But that can be conquered in the story based on your storyTELLING. It's difficult for me to imagine whether or not I would find it as effective if both father figures had the same problem, or if both ended up being hazardous in different ways.

Perhaps, decide who exactly your focus is on. And whether or not the others are major, or minot characters. That I think will help in deciding what ailments you should assign to whom, and how much of their specific problems will alter the story. In other words, their problems, though significant, may be insignificant in the context of your story. At least, in the grand scheme of things.

[Guy]

Paulina, I apologize for my late return. Life is busy right now.

I do not write outlines. I have tried, and tried, because my mind knows their pragmatic use. But when I do, I get twisted into a knot, then go off the outline, and it turns into a wrestling match that is counter productive.

Alas, this makes writing something like a novel VERY HARD. Almost impossible, perhaps.

For me my writing begins with either an idea which is more or less self contained. Does that count as an outline? I don't think so, but it is a guide, like a north star.

If the idea is big enough, that will be the beginning of yet another attempted novel. If it is small enough, it will be a story, or perhaps a chapter in novel.

My writing comes mostly from detailing the characters or the setting. Most often the characters. If my characters are not interesting, I cannot write them. Then I flesh them out with details of thought and physical environment. This makes writing laborious. But also beautiful, as the act of writing is now a creative expression that may or may not become something others will read.

Revising never ends. No matter what state you take your writing, when you re-read it you will want to change it. There is a great anecdote about the poet Auden who, at a function, was asked to sign one of his books. He opened the book to the publication page, and flipped to a page, and edited one of his poems.

At some point someone, your trusted editor, family member, your own muse, just stops with 'it's good enough for now.' If you are a true perfectionist, this is bad, because you will never finish. Good enough is a balance between no more egregious grammatical errors and awkward phrasing, and having created the perfect novel. If it helps, consider that Shakespeare seems to have never stopped editing his works. I recently learned that Shakespeare appears to have written three distinctly different versions of Hamlet, for example. At least two of King Lear, and many others.

The concern of improbability in a story, as Belly and Daniel have mentioned, is a problem only if the writing isn't very good. Good writing can trump the problem of life being stranger than fiction. Or, there is a simple trick to help. Again, going back to Shakespeare, in 12th Night he deals with improbable fiction in a very straightforward way, by having one of the characters comment on the improbability of the circumstance.

Find joy in revising.

[Paulina]

Daniel wrote: "I'm having a hard time understanding why it would be such a problem for both father figures to suffer from the same disease. From a literary standpoint, I think I can see what Belly is saying-- in ..."

I was going to distinguish the two characters a lot in the story. They would both be quite different people.
I don't think I'm going to write that story anymore anyway.

[Paulina]

Guy wrote: "Paulina, I apologize for my late return. Life is busy right now.

I do not write outlines. I have tried, and tried, because my mind knows their pragmatic use. But when I do, I get twisted into a kn..."

It's okay, thanks for answering.

I wrote an outline for my novel after I finished my novel. I didn't even finish the outline. I would write it as I looked through the novel, then I would focus more on the editing instead and forget about the outline.

I've heard a lot of authors feel like their writing is never done, but the readers never even find a flaw in their work. However, I still have a few parts that I need to fix before my novel is at the stage where it's ready to be published by me. I just need to motivate myself to edit the novel.

[Edward]

I like the north star metaphor, Guy. I tend to have a mental outline that includes a north star (typically the original idea that sparked the story or the climax) with several other landmarks along the way (the turn, a random mythology point I want to expand on, jokes - particularly jokes that don't work in every circumstance). Actually written outlines depress me, but a mental outline that I constantly review helps me understand it more organically and in more dimensions that the page can provide.

However you do it, writing is fun.

[Zack]

What happened to Belly Goat? I felt a shift in the force, and upon checking the disturbance, all of his posts are missing. Frown-y face emoticon, the ship should fly flags at half mast for this sudden loss of goatliness.

[Guy]

I noticed that about an hour ago. It would seem he has been all but purged from Goodreads. I tried to PM but couldn't. Through google I found that his goodreads blog is still alive:

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/...

But his blogspot blog is (or at least was) missing when I went to it.

[[deleted user]]

Yay, his blog and google account have been deleted. I should have checked his email address :(

[Zack]

eh, not a bloggie.
maybe it was meant to be
his ghost will live on

[Zack]

i cant help but laugh at his last entry though, "apology to advanced ai." It seems ...somewhat ...familiar.

[[deleted user]]

It's weird, he just added me to his google account this morning (evening) and now it's gone. I hope he'll be back soon..

[Zack]

I guess your the straw that broke the camels back, Leslie. It's always the pretty girl that drives the sane to the depths of madness.

[Zack]

How dare you be so pretty.

[[deleted user]]

Yay, me? I don't think so.

[Zack]

Hmm, ..maybe it's the opposite ... the homely "Guy" that drives the insane to the light of clarity?

[Zack]

Either way, there needs to be a scapeGoat.

[[deleted user]]

...or his goat, wanting a new cave. Whatever it is, I just hope he's okay.

[Zack]

...I guess stalactites are a good enough reason to want to relocate.