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Heroes and Villains and Protagonists
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The kind of protagonist that is ambiguous, who perhaps does not want to save the world but is not trying to destroy it either- I prefer him as a secondary character. However, I don't mind a protagonist with flaws, doubts, etc., although I also appreciate a strong hero. :D Tough decisions, compassion, some sensitivity, etc.

Usually if s/he displays personality traits I admire and or have the same or similar values as I do. Also if the character learns from their mistakes and is visibly (to the reader that is) trying to make a change or difference within him or her self and or their immediate environment. One eg that comes to mind is Griff in Sandra Brown's Play Dirty. I really liked the guy because you saw him growing from chapter to chapter. He recognized his mistakes, didn't make excuses and only cut himself the appropriate amount of slack he deserves. Despite the inadmirable way he's led most of his life I ended up loving him for who I saw he was becoming, not who he was at the beginning of the book. Also characters who are generally compassionate (not in a goody-two shoes type of way though) can easily raise to heroic proportions in my eyes.
What about a villain?
I love a good villain. I don't like quasi villains. They have to be truly villainous, making chills run down my spine. Even in romance where you know there'd generally be an HEA, I enjoy having some level of uncertainty as to whether the protagonist will over come the evil, simply because the villain is so deliciously monstrous.
When is the main character just the protagonist, who is neither the hero or the villain?
Hmmm. Good question. I've always thought of the protagonist as the man or woman who plays the most prominent role in the novel. The one who you're supposed to cheer for, along side any "good" secondary characters that may be present. In romance that would be the hero or the heroine. The antagonist would be the opposite of this. The villain.
Would be interested to get other inputs in this regard.
Another group has a thread about villains and it got me thinking.
Someone posted that a villain helps to make a book. Do you agree with this?
Indeed. If the villain plays a significant role in the novel -- for eg in many romantic suspence -- they can't be quasi villains who you know are just there to show off the hero or heroine's prowess. They have to be really chilling characters who present a true challenge for the lead characters.
Thanks for your thoughts, ladies.
I love a good villain. I agree with you both that villain needs to be formidable and have layers. I argue that a good writer can make you have a moment of doubt where you occasionally feel sympathy for a villain. There are exceptions of course.
I think of a protagonist as the person who is leading the narrative, often the storyteller if it's 1st person. The term protagonist is what I use for a character who's not particularly heroic or villainous. I think this is mainly used (in my mind) for literary fiction, where it's about the choices that the character makes, or seeing life through their eyes. It's not a good v. evil scenario, per se.
I'll think about my hero and villain defs more and get back to you.
I love a good villain. I agree with you both that villain needs to be formidable and have layers. I argue that a good writer can make you have a moment of doubt where you occasionally feel sympathy for a villain. There are exceptions of course.
I think of a protagonist as the person who is leading the narrative, often the storyteller if it's 1st person. The term protagonist is what I use for a character who's not particularly heroic or villainous. I think this is mainly used (in my mind) for literary fiction, where it's about the choices that the character makes, or seeing life through their eyes. It's not a good v. evil scenario, per se.
I'll think about my hero and villain defs more and get back to you.
1. What makes a hero a hero in your book (I mean both male and female)?
Integrity. Courage.
Truthfulness. I love to see a hero and heroine from the inside out. I want to see the "colored" person, as in person on a coloring page that's embracing the colors that he or she is wearing. That's realness.
I like when a hero and heroine is a superhero and that hero is human.
2. What about a villain?
Bad, ringing bell shoes.
A villain can sometimes wear a heart.
3. When is the main character just the protagonist, who is neither the hero or the villain?
I will have to go with, when he or she is in the story for a little spice.
4. Another group has a thread about villains and it got me thinking.
Someone posted that a villain helps to make a book. Do you agree with this?
Yes, I think so, because in my opinion, if a villain isn't present, then the hero or heroine will not shine so bright.
A villain brings out the best in the hero and heroine. They bring life to a hero and heroine.
Integrity. Courage.
Truthfulness. I love to see a hero and heroine from the inside out. I want to see the "colored" person, as in person on a coloring page that's embracing the colors that he or she is wearing. That's realness.
I like when a hero and heroine is a superhero and that hero is human.
2. What about a villain?
Bad, ringing bell shoes.
A villain can sometimes wear a heart.
3. When is the main character just the protagonist, who is neither the hero or the villain?
I will have to go with, when he or she is in the story for a little spice.
4. Another group has a thread about villains and it got me thinking.
Someone posted that a villain helps to make a book. Do you agree with this?
Yes, I think so, because in my opinion, if a villain isn't present, then the hero or heroine will not shine so bright.
A villain brings out the best in the hero and heroine. They bring life to a hero and heroine.
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "You have a way with words, Arch. You're very poetic. "
Well thank you Danielle.
I am a poet. Besides writing stories, I write poems.
Well thank you Danielle.
I am a poet. Besides writing stories, I write poems.
message 8:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Jan 07, 2010 06:18PM)
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Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Bless you. I am a terrible poet. I admire those who are blessed with that ability."
In The Agent. Angel, will write a little something, something.
In The Agent. Angel, will write a little something, something.

I've read a few like that. They definitely made for interesting and funny stories.
Loni wrote: "I find it interesting when a hero is a bit of a villain. The type who can be a cold-blooded jerk, but the heroine has him wrapped around her finger.
I've read a few like that. They definitely ma..."
Todd Manning(Roger Howarth) fit these songs. I use to watch One Life to Live and he was one of my favorite characters. He was a bad boy with a little sugar in his cup of coffee. He had a heart.
I've read a few like that. They definitely ma..."
Todd Manning(Roger Howarth) fit these songs. I use to watch One Life to Live and he was one of my favorite characters. He was a bad boy with a little sugar in his cup of coffee. He had a heart.
message 12:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Jan 08, 2010 05:46AM)
(new)
Loni wrote: "I find it interesting when a hero is a bit of a villain. The type who can be a cold-blooded jerk, but the heroine has him wrapped around her finger.
I've read a few like that. They definitely ma..."
--Ooh, I love dark heroes/anti-heroes. Real bad-boys, not just players. I can't stand those. I like the hero that could be evil, but decides not to be. Maybe he's done some bad things, but he's reformed, well mostly. My favorites!!! If you like these kinds of heroes, you should read Anne Stuart, Loni.
Todd Manning played by Roger Howarth. Oh, how I ended up liking him. I don't care for the new Todd actor the same way.
I've read a few like that. They definitely ma..."
--Ooh, I love dark heroes/anti-heroes. Real bad-boys, not just players. I can't stand those. I like the hero that could be evil, but decides not to be. Maybe he's done some bad things, but he's reformed, well mostly. My favorites!!! If you like these kinds of heroes, you should read Anne Stuart, Loni.
Todd Manning played by Roger Howarth. Oh, how I ended up liking him. I don't care for the new Todd actor the same way.
message 13:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Jan 08, 2010 06:00AM)
(new)
Okay maybe these are simplistic definitions, but they are mine. I like genre fiction, so these don't fit the archetypes for literary fiction very well.
My definition of a hero:
*honorable
*has to have a flaw in some way to be 'real' and interesting to me
*willing to make sacrifices
*struggles to do the right thing, even though he/she may not always
*cares about others/protects those in need of protection
*crusader/rights wrongs
*has a code (may not be pure white according to others, but there are things he or she won't do)
*has an inner fortitude that shines through. Doesn't have to be Conan to be strong. Inner strength is equally important.
*has some skill or ability that distinguishes him or her in some way (it may be latent, but becomes revealed over the story)
*the person you root for, care about, cry for, want the happy ending for
*doesn't like violence, but will use it if necessary to achieve the good ends. Experiences remorse about killing to at least some degree. Less for a really bad person.
villain (for me this is a very small category)
*completely evil
*no code whatsoever (but might have one area where he has a sentimental streak or a small degree of humanity)
*formidable. (I don't agree with Paper Tigers, which are villains that are easily defeated. Those kind of villains drive me crazy. My writing teacher introduced me to the concept of paper tigers, and I'm glad he did. When I write a villain, there is a moment of uncertainty where you really think he could win. But of course, he/she doesn't. LOL.)
*has no problem using violence or killing anyone (even innocent, children, etc)
anti-hero
*my favorite kind of character. A lot of my favorite heroes are probably antiheroes
*very flawed, moreso than a true hero
*they have a code, but it doesn't mirror what society says is right or wrong
*they are teetering on the edge of oblivion-could go either way. But some significant event (love, epiphany) sends them on the path to redemption
*if it's action/adventure/romantic suspense/paranormal, they don't have an issue with killing, but they wouldn't kill a helpless person or a child (if they did in the past, they decide that they won't do that in the future).
That is my favorite storyline, hands down. The redemption of the antihero! Also I love when the villain becomes the hero.
My definition of a hero:
*honorable
*has to have a flaw in some way to be 'real' and interesting to me
*willing to make sacrifices
*struggles to do the right thing, even though he/she may not always
*cares about others/protects those in need of protection
*crusader/rights wrongs
*has a code (may not be pure white according to others, but there are things he or she won't do)
*has an inner fortitude that shines through. Doesn't have to be Conan to be strong. Inner strength is equally important.
*has some skill or ability that distinguishes him or her in some way (it may be latent, but becomes revealed over the story)
*the person you root for, care about, cry for, want the happy ending for
*doesn't like violence, but will use it if necessary to achieve the good ends. Experiences remorse about killing to at least some degree. Less for a really bad person.
villain (for me this is a very small category)
*completely evil
*no code whatsoever (but might have one area where he has a sentimental streak or a small degree of humanity)
*formidable. (I don't agree with Paper Tigers, which are villains that are easily defeated. Those kind of villains drive me crazy. My writing teacher introduced me to the concept of paper tigers, and I'm glad he did. When I write a villain, there is a moment of uncertainty where you really think he could win. But of course, he/she doesn't. LOL.)
*has no problem using violence or killing anyone (even innocent, children, etc)
anti-hero
*my favorite kind of character. A lot of my favorite heroes are probably antiheroes
*very flawed, moreso than a true hero
*they have a code, but it doesn't mirror what society says is right or wrong
*they are teetering on the edge of oblivion-could go either way. But some significant event (love, epiphany) sends them on the path to redemption
*if it's action/adventure/romantic suspense/paranormal, they don't have an issue with killing, but they wouldn't kill a helpless person or a child (if they did in the past, they decide that they won't do that in the future).
That is my favorite storyline, hands down. The redemption of the antihero! Also I love when the villain becomes the hero.
message 14:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Jan 08, 2010 06:07AM)
(new)
Some definitions from Wikipedia.org (FYI)
Hero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero
Villain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villain
Antihero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
Protagonist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagonist
Antagonist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonist
From Wiktionary.org (I didn't like the Wikipedia page for Paper Tiger)
Paper Tiger
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paper_t...
Hero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero
Villain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villain
Antihero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
Protagonist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagonist
Antagonist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonist
From Wiktionary.org (I didn't like the Wikipedia page for Paper Tiger)
Paper Tiger
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paper_t...
The scar on Todd/Roger's face made him even more appealing. Oh, and I can't forget the black clothing. True Villain style.
What about a villain?
When is the main character just the protagonist, who is neither the hero or the villain?
Another group has a thread about villains and it got me thinking.
Someone posted that a villain helps to make a book. Do you agree with this?