Cult of Anoia discussion
Jingo: Group Read
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No problem. Nobby keeps it to himself, but he is obviously the rational one of the duo. He always keeps his thoughts to himself, but he questions everyone's motives and rationale for going to war. I love it, too, that he plans to carry the Book of Om across his chest, and that he refuses to sign up because he wants to collect enough feathers for a mattress! Always the practical one.
I just started my day with the thought of taking measurements of Nobby's "saddlery regions". Great phrase!
More great Colon and Nobby on the flying carpet, where Colon is terrified and Nobby is making the most of it! And then Nobby as woman-kind's champion:
"Nobby, you're scared of heights," said Colon. "I know you're scared of heights."
"That's sexual stereotyping!"
"No it's not."
"Yes it is! [...:] It's my job to prove to you that a woman can be as good as a man!"
"[...:] You are not female Nobby!"
Beti sniffed. "That's just the sort of sexist remark I'd expect from you."
Nobby is so empathetic to the way woman are oppressed in Klatchian society and argues in their defense quite passionately! :)
"Nobby, you're scared of heights," said Colon. "I know you're scared of heights."
"That's sexual stereotyping!"
"No it's not."
"Yes it is! [...:] It's my job to prove to you that a woman can be as good as a man!"
"[...:] You are not female Nobby!"
Beti sniffed. "That's just the sort of sexist remark I'd expect from you."
Nobby is so empathetic to the way woman are oppressed in Klatchian society and argues in their defense quite passionately! :)
Finished the book -- enjoyed the ride. Interesting how the Patrician uses his brain to settle these things.
How can you read the book so quickly? I am not even half way through.
The key to Carrot is , I think, in the sentence, 'But Carrot really did believe that personal wasn't the same as important.'
In this one sentence TP defines a person who is able to think and act dispassionately.
The side issue of the 2 personal dis-organisers is wonderful as it allows the author to create some wonderful poignant moments at the end of the novel.
Do you think that maybe TP thought about changing the dynamics between Nobby and Fred when he was writing this? He gave Nobby lots of opportunities to deflate Fred (the ones mentioned earlier plus the loweroglyphs).
The footnotes about Sidney Lopsides are laugh out loud moments as is the list of food taken onto the boat (or should that be Das Boat?)
The key to Carrot is , I think, in the sentence, 'But Carrot really did believe that personal wasn't the same as important.'
In this one sentence TP defines a person who is able to think and act dispassionately.
The side issue of the 2 personal dis-organisers is wonderful as it allows the author to create some wonderful poignant moments at the end of the novel.
Do you think that maybe TP thought about changing the dynamics between Nobby and Fred when he was writing this? He gave Nobby lots of opportunities to deflate Fred (the ones mentioned earlier plus the loweroglyphs).
The footnotes about Sidney Lopsides are laugh out loud moments as is the list of food taken onto the boat (or should that be Das Boat?)
I had to finish, because I needed to start Emma this week. Plus, I got tired of reading it two pages at a time, even though Pratchett set it up just so the reader could do that. I couldn't remember what happened from the last time I read it and wanted to find out.
TP really develops several of his characters in this book. Carrot becomes the perfect foil for Vimes, who dashes off madly and full of fire. This is why he has such a hard time letting go at the end. And Nobby "becomes" Beti, exploring the point of view of the other man, even if he is a woman.
We also get to see an active side to Vetinari, an "almost" human side. He still takes the high road at the end, but it's wonderful to think of him stuck in a U-boat with Nobby and Colon eating cheese.
Das Boat is my husband's favorite movie, so we enjoy the side reference, too.
I'm looking forward to discussing the end of the book with you. I think I enjoyed the journey more than the resolution.
TP really develops several of his characters in this book. Carrot becomes the perfect foil for Vimes, who dashes off madly and full of fire. This is why he has such a hard time letting go at the end. And Nobby "becomes" Beti, exploring the point of view of the other man, even if he is a woman.
We also get to see an active side to Vetinari, an "almost" human side. He still takes the high road at the end, but it's wonderful to think of him stuck in a U-boat with Nobby and Colon eating cheese.
Das Boat is my husband's favorite movie, so we enjoy the side reference, too.
I'm looking forward to discussing the end of the book with you. I think I enjoyed the journey more than the resolution.
I have just got to the part where SV realises that 71A is a policeman and Willikins arrives on the scene (a wonderful subversion of a stereotype).
One of the themes in this section seems to be the nature of law enforcement; are the police 'thief takers' (SV) or judge, jury and executioner (71A). It is all done with the proper legal procedures as 71A had witnesses and proof but that is an interesting question to ponder on.
Slightly touched on is the legality of war (interesting to ponder with the background to Iraq and Afghanistan) and who polices the rulers but I haven't finished reading it yet.
I think that Nobby was used as a foil in this book. I don't think that Nobby has been used like this since Jingo though which is a shame.
Again, just to show how well read TP is, the city is the setting for Shelley's poem, 'Ozymandias'.
These discussions are fantastic. This is the nth time that I have read this book but I didn't really pick up on half the stuff that has been drawn out.
One of the themes in this section seems to be the nature of law enforcement; are the police 'thief takers' (SV) or judge, jury and executioner (71A). It is all done with the proper legal procedures as 71A had witnesses and proof but that is an interesting question to ponder on.
Slightly touched on is the legality of war (interesting to ponder with the background to Iraq and Afghanistan) and who polices the rulers but I haven't finished reading it yet.
I think that Nobby was used as a foil in this book. I don't think that Nobby has been used like this since Jingo though which is a shame.
Again, just to show how well read TP is, the city is the setting for Shelley's poem, 'Ozymandias'.
These discussions are fantastic. This is the nth time that I have read this book but I didn't really pick up on half the stuff that has been drawn out.
I was thinking about this when I woke up this morning. Vimes doesn't kill. He constantly struggles against the Beast within, but he always manages to subdue the rage, because it is who he is and who he wants to be. I'm thinking in particular of Night Watch, when he has the chance to kill Carcer, but sends him instead to a fair trial followed by his execution. What is TP saying about the role of law enforcement both on a local and an international level? In AM, you get sent to the Palace and then the tyrant makes sure you hang. Interesting to think that justice is carried out by someone who isn't considered to be just? What is he saying here about wars and invasions? Is he showing us how wrong war is on so many levels? He raises a lot of difficult questions hidden in this funny story.
I also like the quote "Who watches the Watchman?" Sums up his and Vimes philosophy.
I'm going to look for Shelley's poem. I'm not familiar with much ancient history, or poems about it.
I am really enjoying these book discussions, too. You see things in a certain way and then someone says "look at it from this angle" and something shows up that you didn't quite see the first few times through.
I also like the quote "Who watches the Watchman?" Sums up his and Vimes philosophy.
I'm going to look for Shelley's poem. I'm not familiar with much ancient history, or poems about it.
I am really enjoying these book discussions, too. You see things in a certain way and then someone says "look at it from this angle" and something shows up that you didn't quite see the first few times through.
What is TP saying about the role of law enforcement both on a local and an international level?
If Jingo had finished at the meeting of Vimes and Ahmed then it would have been that, in the right circumstances, might is right (as 71-hour Ahmed has a reputation to protect and a large area to police.
However, with Vetinari's 'surrender' it seems more to me that diplomacy = cleverness and both are mightier than the sword as both Lord Rust and the Prince are sidelined.
But what is a more profound ending is Fred's realisation of his racism in going to the Bunch of Grapes instead. It seems that by the end it isn't only Nobby/ Beti that has walked a mile in someone else's shoes.
If Jingo had finished at the meeting of Vimes and Ahmed then it would have been that, in the right circumstances, might is right (as 71-hour Ahmed has a reputation to protect and a large area to police.
However, with Vetinari's 'surrender' it seems more to me that diplomacy = cleverness and both are mightier than the sword as both Lord Rust and the Prince are sidelined.
But what is a more profound ending is Fred's realisation of his racism in going to the Bunch of Grapes instead. It seems that by the end it isn't only Nobby/ Beti that has walked a mile in someone else's shoes.
Yes. Fred sees things in a new way. And, I think Mr. Goriff learned something too. I think it was important that he made Fred and Nobby a big portion of curry, just the way they liked it!
Vetinari's surrender also was a symbolic way of showing that even kings and rulers are subject to the law. He overdoes it by insisting on chains, but he makes a point to the public.
TP is also sending the optimistic message that someday common interest will prevail over warfare. I think we are still a ways off.
Vetinari's surrender also was a symbolic way of showing that even kings and rulers are subject to the law. He overdoes it by insisting on chains, but he makes a point to the public.
TP is also sending the optimistic message that someday common interest will prevail over warfare. I think we are still a ways off.
Henk
I hope you will finish the book at your leisure -- I hate to think I made you hurry through it. I found the ending almost a let down after the non-stop laughs.
I hope you will finish the book at your leisure -- I hate to think I made you hurry through it. I found the ending almost a let down after the non-stop laughs.
I was also thinking that 71hr's policy of might-is-right caused him to seek out Vimes. Ahmed knew that Prince Cadram was wrong and Ahmed did what he could, but he needed Vimes to stop Cadram. Ahmed was not willing to kill Cadram and couldn't arrest him
Jeannette as you say Jingo has a pace of its own. I finished it today while working, reading and listening to the radio. The closer I get to the end of a book, the more I want to finish it.
But what about Goriff Junior? From what he said he was born in Ankh-Morpork and yet chose to remain in Klatch. It could be argued that with the new Prince, it was going to be a new Klatch but that bit does leave a note of uncertainty.
But what about Goriff Junior? From what he said he was born in Ankh-Morpork and yet chose to remain in Klatch. It could be argued that with the new Prince, it was going to be a new Klatch but that bit does leave a note of uncertainty.
I wonder if his dad just sent him off to the uncle to keep him from following in Fred and Nobby's footsteps!
What kind of job do you have where you work, read and listen to the radio?? Sounds good! lol
What kind of job do you have where you work, read and listen to the radio?? Sounds good! lol
Prince Cadram...what a name. I wonder if TP was annoyed with his computer. Also reminded me of Dilbert (American comic strip) and the corporate IT guy who was called Mordac, preventer of Information Services.
I think it sounds like a spice!
Yikes! I cant keep up! But I'll give it a try toward the middle of the month.
Please join in the discussion in February. I love Moist!
TP is like Nostradamus. Check this news story out-March 24, 2010– An island that both India and Bangladesh have claimed ownership of for years has vanished, Indian scientists say. Satellite photos indicate that the island, known as New Moore Island in India and South Talpatti Island in Bangladesh, has sunk beneath the rising sea. The tiny island has never had a permanent settlement, but thanks to the dispute, the Indian Navy has often visited, sometimes deploying security forces, reports the BBC.
“What these two countries could not achieve from years of talking has been resolved by global warming,” says one Calcutta-based professor of ocean studies. He added that water levels in the Bay of Bengal, where the island was located, have risen much faster over the past 10 years than in the 15 before that. He predicts more islands in the area will soon follow New Moore/South Talpatti’s lead.
Jim wrote: "TP is like Nostradamus. Check this news story out-
March 24, 2010– An island that both India and Bangladesh have claimed ownership of for years has vanished, Indian scientists say. Satellite ph..."
Thanks, Jim! Great story! :)
March 24, 2010– An island that both India and Bangladesh have claimed ownership of for years has vanished, Indian scientists say. Satellite ph..."
Thanks, Jim! Great story! :)
I saw that story as well, and thought of Pratchett immediately. The man really is a genius! :)
Cult of Anoia
Books mentioned in this topic
Going Postal (other topics)Jingo (other topics)
With using Nobby (who is usually just out for himself) as the voice of reason, I feel that he is urging readers to question their assumptions.
PS Sorry Jeannette I have just reread your thread and see that you make the same point about Nobby and Colon.