Cult of Anoia discussion
Jingo: Group Read
It's a quick read, I think there's hope!
Hi Barb! He really likes Jingo because it starts right out with the action and skips any philosophical musings about the Great Atuin, the universe and the meaning of life!
And it has the opening about the squids - only bettered by the opening involving the aged mayfly and the younger mayfly (but I can't remember which book that was in)
"Reaper Man" had the mayflies and the counting pines.
Shall we make Jingo our next group read??
Shall we make Jingo our next group read??
Thanks for that (I can't remember the counting pines).
Yes, I haven't read it in a while and it is always worthwhile rereading a Discworld novel
Yes, I haven't read it in a while and it is always worthwhile rereading a Discworld novel
I'm going to start Jingo. My husband is already reading all of the best bits out loud at the table, so I really want to read it! I remember it being one of Pratchett's funniest books.
I re-read all of the discworld books many, many times, so I'd love to. Jingo is a great one for Vimes to shine. We should organize a discussion afterward - I always love seeing things other people caught that I may have missed. Maybe "Funniest Moment" or "Most Veiled Extremely Clever Reference"?
Yes, good idea. I loved this book, and I read it toward the end of the Bush administration, which made it very timely.
I've started it and found another "very minor character": the curious squid.
As for "Funniest Moment": from what I remember, there will be many!
As for "Funniest Moment": from what I remember, there will be many!
I love the exchange between Sam Vimes and the prince. It is such fun to see how Vimes thinks. Pratchett did a fine job developing Vimes character. Vetinari's terrier!
Have just started reading this (am reading the 1st book of the Millenium trilogy by Larsson).
I had forgotten how good it is. The phrase multi-vital society is a lovely turn on current phraseology, the Mr. Jenkins and Sam Vimes exchange, the cubs meeting led by Carrot and the cabinet meeting after the assassination attempt are priceless.
On the more serious side the way Sam Vimes reprimands Colon off stage after the casual racism is wonderful, it highlights the tendency of people just to say things as others do.
I had forgotten how good it is. The phrase multi-vital society is a lovely turn on current phraseology, the Mr. Jenkins and Sam Vimes exchange, the cubs meeting led by Carrot and the cabinet meeting after the assassination attempt are priceless.
On the more serious side the way Sam Vimes reprimands Colon off stage after the casual racism is wonderful, it highlights the tendency of people just to say things as others do.
Yes, Vimes certainly shines in this book. I can certainly identify with a lot of what is going through his head.
I am a bit further along, so here are a few of my favorite bits:
Vetinari to Vimes, after the assassination attempt. "Do you know why I sent Captain Carrot from the room? He winces when he hears you tell a direct lie. I can't stand to see his poor face twitch all the time."
And in Leonard of Quirm's chamber: "Lord Vetinari sounded like a man straining to see a light at the end of the tunnel.....It had turned out that the end of the tunnel was on fire."
The whole conversation with Leonard was brilliant.
Mr. Spuddy Face and the Librarian. too funny!
I am a bit further along, so here are a few of my favorite bits:
Vetinari to Vimes, after the assassination attempt. "Do you know why I sent Captain Carrot from the room? He winces when he hears you tell a direct lie. I can't stand to see his poor face twitch all the time."
And in Leonard of Quirm's chamber: "Lord Vetinari sounded like a man straining to see a light at the end of the tunnel.....It had turned out that the end of the tunnel was on fire."
The whole conversation with Leonard was brilliant.
Mr. Spuddy Face and the Librarian. too funny!
And the character of Leonard is absolutely spot on. I can actually name friends of mine who are just like him, so wrapped up in things they forget about the day to day necessities.
I also like Vimes' reaction to what Vetinari tells him, Damn.
I also like Vimes' reaction to what Vetinari tells him, Damn.
And it's funny to think that maybe da Vinci was like that, a peaceful man who was good at thinking up weapons of war.
I feel that he was a man of curiosity; he was intrigued by things and wanted to find out what made things tick without thinking about the application of his inventions.
I look at his paintings (The Last Supper and Mona Lisa) and it doesn't strike me that there goes a man of violence.
I also read a biography about da Vinci (the 1st Scientist by White I think) and that formed the basis of my ideas about him.
I look at his paintings (The Last Supper and Mona Lisa) and it doesn't strike me that there goes a man of violence.
I also read a biography about da Vinci (the 1st Scientist by White I think) and that formed the basis of my ideas about him.
I have just read the part where Carrot, Angua and Vimes are in Vimes' office when they find Ossie's arrow.
The depth of the characters is amazing; with the talk of subterfuge and then linking in both Angua and Carrot with the contrasting attitudes is fantastic.
I can sense Vimes wistfulness towards Angua's attitude and his frustration at not being able to 'read' Carrot as he is able to read everyone else.
I think these characters have benefitted greatly from being developed over the years and the books.
The depth of the characters is amazing; with the talk of subterfuge and then linking in both Angua and Carrot with the contrasting attitudes is fantastic.
I can sense Vimes wistfulness towards Angua's attitude and his frustration at not being able to 'read' Carrot as he is able to read everyone else.
I think these characters have benefitted greatly from being developed over the years and the books.
"And trust no one..."
It has been interesting to see how they have matured as people. I think Pratchett has done an amazing job with the Watch. The wizards are still just characters, in a way, except for the Librarian.
It has been interesting to see how they have matured as people. I think Pratchett has done an amazing job with the Watch. The wizards are still just characters, in a way, except for the Librarian.
I think most of the wizards are just characters but there is character development for Ponder Stibbons, especially in Unseen Academicals, and Mustrum Ridcully.
I think that the intention behind the characters is different. It seems that TP has deliberately cultivated the policeman while the wizards have always appeared to be interchangeable.
I think I read, or heard, that Carrot and Angua might get married soon but this is just a really vague memory.
I think that the intention behind the characters is different. It seems that TP has deliberately cultivated the policeman while the wizards have always appeared to be interchangeable.
I think I read, or heard, that Carrot and Angua might get married soon but this is just a really vague memory.
I hadn't heard the marriage rumor, but don't hear as much in the US, maybe. I do see that Ridcully and Stibbons have been developed, as you mention, especially when you think back to pre-Ridcully days, when the Arch Chancellor was just the man in charge, liable to be assassinated at any time.
It is interesting to see how TP moves his characters. He totally dropped all of the overt references to Carrot being King of AM, but still Carrot has "something" more to him than his simple, straight-forward exterior. And Vimes has gone through a lot of changes -- still fun to see when the old copper surfaces to the top, with his thin soled boots.
It is interesting to see how TP moves his characters. He totally dropped all of the overt references to Carrot being King of AM, but still Carrot has "something" more to him than his simple, straight-forward exterior. And Vimes has gone through a lot of changes -- still fun to see when the old copper surfaces to the top, with his thin soled boots.
Even in Guards, Guards - where Vimes was an alcoholic - there was an edge of steel in him and TP has kept that 'thin-soled boots' touch in Vimes so, I think that maybe, TP had an idea that SV has going to be a key character (more so than Carrot) as he is more human (complete with his blindspots, prejudices and weaknesses).
The best policeman book is, I feel, Night Watch - that really shows a lot of Sam Vimes and Lord Vetinari.
The best policeman book is, I feel, Night Watch - that really shows a lot of Sam Vimes and Lord Vetinari.
Night Watch is the best Vimes, followed very closely by Thud! I really enjoy the last exchange in Night Watch between Sam and Vetinari. I think with that book, even Vetinari may have begun to fade a bit. He had an interesting revival in UA.
I read somewhere that Carrot was meant to be the main character, but TP changed his mind and went with Vimes.
I read somewhere that Carrot was meant to be the main character, but TP changed his mind and went with Vimes.
Which story is it where Vimes breaks into his own office just to see if he's still got the knack? I liked it; it reminded me of Inspector Clouseau except that of course Vimes really has the right stuff.
Barbm1020
Was it Night Watch where he returned the stolen property that had been put in his locker?
Jeannette
I have only read Making Money once but doesn't Lord Vetinari have a role in it - I know he features at the start but can't remember whether he just maes cameo appearances.
Was it Night Watch where he returned the stolen property that had been put in his locker?
Jeannette
I have only read Making Money once but doesn't Lord Vetinari have a role in it - I know he features at the start but can't remember whether he just maes cameo appearances.
I meant more in a sense of character development that Vimes "outshines" Vetinari beginning with Night Watch. Making Money centered on Vetinari and his overthrow via a crazed Vetinari wannabe. Great scene with all of the crazy Vetinaris in the special ward at the asylum!
Night Watch has Vimes and the stolen property, but I have to find the scene Barb is talking about. I think he comes in through the roof somehow. There is a similar scene in Making Money, which my daughter just pointed out, where Moist breaks into his own office, cuz he's going stir-crazy from boredom.
Night Watch has Vimes and the stolen property, but I have to find the scene Barb is talking about. I think he comes in through the roof somehow. There is a similar scene in Making Money, which my daughter just pointed out, where Moist breaks into his own office, cuz he's going stir-crazy from boredom.
I cannot remember that, I am going to have to reread it. All I can remember is Stanley and the mountain of letters.
Back to Jingo. On rereading it I figured out that Nobby and Colon are Laurel and Hardy; so obvious! Even down to the way they talk to each other.
What I also love is the scene with Vimes and Littlebottom where there is an embarrassed silence after being told , 'Don't tell me that the embassy is burning'.
Also, the scene with Mrs. Cake (the fortune teller) and Nobby.
What I also love is the scene with Vimes and Littlebottom where there is an embarrassed silence after being told , 'Don't tell me that the embassy is burning'.
Also, the scene with Mrs. Cake (the fortune teller) and Nobby.
Stanley and the letters are in Going Postal. Stanley has a smaller role in Making Money (which I cannot recall).
I think you are correct about Night Watch. I can't think of any other book where Vimes has to break into his own office. I am getting these books sort of mixed together.
We can put Going Postal on our to-read list. I read or listen to it every year.
I think you are correct about Night Watch. I can't think of any other book where Vimes has to break into his own office. I am getting these books sort of mixed together.
We can put Going Postal on our to-read list. I read or listen to it every year.
How about Going Postal as the next Group Read?
Good choice! But don't ask about Mrs. Cake. or things with big teeth!
Henk wrote: "Back to Jingo. On rereading it I figured out that Nobby and Colon are Laurel and Hardy; so obvious! Even down to the way they talk to each other.
What I also love is the scene with Vimes and Lit..."
Another "aha" moment! And, I hadn't connected it either, but it is definitely part of the appeal of those two.
And how funny, Nobby surrounded by "nubile" young women and none of them shouting at him! Even Mrs. Cake was fascinated by it.
I also liked Vindaloo is Klatchian for "mouth-scalding gristle for macho foreign idiots".
What I also love is the scene with Vimes and Lit..."
Another "aha" moment! And, I hadn't connected it either, but it is definitely part of the appeal of those two.
And how funny, Nobby surrounded by "nubile" young women and none of them shouting at him! Even Mrs. Cake was fascinated by it.
I also liked Vindaloo is Klatchian for "mouth-scalding gristle for macho foreign idiots".
Henk wrote: "How about Going Postal as the next Group Read?"
I'll try to get my daughter in on that discussion. I think she has Going Postal memorized!
I'll try to get my daughter in on that discussion. I think she has Going Postal memorized!
The bit where Mrs Cake goes back for the $10 dollar is the icing on the cake. It is these one-liners that he excels at in Jingo.
Another one is 'Give me your paw.' said to Nobby by Mrs Cake.
What do you think of the Lord Rust character? In British politics, I can think of various statesmen from the 80's and 90's who might be models for Lord Rust (an 'honourable' fool) but what about the American political system; is there an equivalent of a Lord Rust?
Another one is 'Give me your paw.' said to Nobby by Mrs Cake.
What do you think of the Lord Rust character? In British politics, I can think of various statesmen from the 80's and 90's who might be models for Lord Rust (an 'honourable' fool) but what about the American political system; is there an equivalent of a Lord Rust?
It's harder to say, because we don't have these rather old and venerable families that have been around for centuries fighting in wars and commanding armies (hard when the country is less than 250 yrs. old).
There are quite a few politicians who stick around forever, say like Teddy Kennedy. John McCain might fit the bill, especially after the way he mucked up the last election campaign. He certainly appeared to be an honorable fool this time. Again, it's hard to say. I'll have to think about it.
There are quite a few politicians who stick around forever, say like Teddy Kennedy. John McCain might fit the bill, especially after the way he mucked up the last election campaign. He certainly appeared to be an honorable fool this time. Again, it's hard to say. I'll have to think about it.
Henk wrote: "Back to Jingo. On rereading it I figured out that Nobby and Colon are Laurel and Hardy; so obvious! Even down to the way they talk to each other.What I also love is the scene with Vimes and Lit..."
I figured out the Laurel & Hardy connection when I watched one of the animated films. Have to go back now and see if it was Soul Music or Wyrd Sisters.
It is particularly funny that Nobby is the voice of reason in all of their discussions about foreigners. Colon even asks Nobby if he's trying to "get him going." You just don't imagine Nobby as the intelligent one in the group, especially as he asks Colon where the country of Nubilia is located.
Barbm1020
Are you reading Jingo with us? I thought maybe you could help with an answer to Henk's question regarding Lord Rust.
Are you reading Jingo with us? I thought maybe you could help with an answer to Henk's question regarding Lord Rust.
Hmm, have to get it again from the library. Going by memory right now because I read it a few months ago. But I'm trying to think about somebody recent who insisted on fighting an unnecessary war just because he could...
I'll send you an excerpt tomorrow, to give you a feel for the character. It's an interesting question.
Barbm1020
I love your message 39.
I love your message 39.
Henk wrote: "Barbm1020
I love your message 39."
Yes, but you asked for an "honorable" fool, so someone I'm thinking of doesn't qualify.
I love your message 39."
Yes, but you asked for an "honorable" fool, so someone I'm thinking of doesn't qualify.
Yes, I can give you a laundry list of fools that have run this country at one time or another! (should I laugh or cry now?)
Henk wrote: "Well you are 1/2 right"
And, he was part of a dynasty that liked to wage war in a certain area, with all of the same fools running the show.
And, he was part of a dynasty that liked to wage war in a certain area, with all of the same fools running the show.
Henk and Jeannette, I know you are right. And the answer to why people do this is always the same: follow the money. Ahh how I love the discworld where we are all in the capable hands of the all-powerful author who get us safely home at the end of the story.
Would be nice to know that Vimes was watching our backs!
When I first read this in the late 90's I equated the war between Klatch and Ankh-Morpork as being a commentary on the Falklands War of the early 80's.
Lord Rust was Margaret Thatcher (the Iron Lady). It is amazing how things change and yet stay the same.
Lord Rust was Margaret Thatcher (the Iron Lady). It is amazing how things change and yet stay the same.
I thought you might have been thinking of Thatcher. But, the Bushes were in Iraq twice, so that is mixed into it, too. Pratchett has a way of making everything topical and timeless, simultaneously.
Picking up on what has been said about Colon and Nobby. Colon is normally a bumbling jolly fat man(matching the stereotype).
However, in Jingo, I feel that perhaps TP is trying to subvert the stereotype in order to make the reader think about his/ her beliefs. That is why maybe he is using Nobby as a foil to Colon's everyman.
Also, to show that he is well read he uses a quote from the Art of War or a German General when he has Rust say 'War is just the continuation of diplomacy by other means'.
However, in Jingo, I feel that perhaps TP is trying to subvert the stereotype in order to make the reader think about his/ her beliefs. That is why maybe he is using Nobby as a foil to Colon's everyman.
Also, to show that he is well read he uses a quote from the Art of War or a German General when he has Rust say 'War is just the continuation of diplomacy by other means'.
Cult of Anoia
Books mentioned in this topic
Going Postal (other topics)Jingo (other topics)
If yes, any suggestions?