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message 2501: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments I don't understand the 'worst schools' thing.

Schools in the UK are federally mandated and run, yes? Then shouldn't all schools be on par?


message 2502: by Marc (last edited Nov 28, 2015 12:03PM) (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "I don't understand the 'worst schools' thing.

Schools in the UK are federally mandated and run, yes? Then shouldn't all schools be on par?"


should be, aren't. In the 80s there were sink schools which were little better than holding pens for keeping kids off the streets. Both labour & Conservative eduction ministers have striven to improve the across the board level of state education. Whatever you think of the policies, the constant changing has made the administration of state schools a whole lot harder.


message 2503: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Marc wrote: "Both labour & Conservative eduction ministers have striven to improve the across the board level of state education. Whatever you think of the policies, the constant changing has made the administration of state schools a whole lot harder. ..."

Changing educational and social theories don't help either to be honest.


message 2504: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments true


message 2505: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments The other issue is of course the Balance of payments issue. As a nation, the UK became very wealthy by actually manufacturing things and exporting them. The wilful destruction by Thatcher and her successors (in which I include Blair, as he wasn't really a Labour man ever) was short sighted. It has left us entirely dependant upon service industries: and neither those nor 'banking' can generate enough earnings to replace proper industry.

We have been bleeding currency for years as a result and it will in time become an even greater crisis than it is now


message 2506: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments especially when you factor in the pensions timebomb


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments The lack of manufacturing industries is very worrying. High streets reflect this too, all building societies, estate agents, insurance offices and banks. No wonder the retailers who are left have a very diminished passing trade. It's all social engineering one way or another.


message 2508: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments and betting shops Lynne! We have 2 in a very nondescript parade by our Tube station


message 2509: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Marc wrote: "especially when you factor in the pensions timebomb"

It's a problem we've been facing for some time. We're probably lucky that we've managed to attract so many immigrants because they've helped to defuse our pension timebomb a little (compared to Germany for example, and guess what, the Germans are frantically grabbing immigrants in the hope that they'll help defuse theirs)
Given the poor level of training and education a lot of our population have, it's going to take a great deal of effort to get them into gainful employment. I was talking to a lad in his late 20's who's been self employed in agriculture all his life, and he has not a lot of time for the lads he was at school with who have never held down a job
In his words, any job they are qualified to do 'isn't good enough for them,' and any job that they want, 'they're not good enough to get it.'


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments Yes I forgot betting shops, sandwich and fast food shops and charity shops. We had to go to Nottingham city centre and I needed to buy something for a meal later. I could not find a shop selling fresh food. Everything was ready meals or prebooked. I was very frustrated. We ended up going to an out of town supermarket on the way home. There used to lots of small delis and lovely food markets. Now they only cater for the young professionals who micro wave everything or eat out in the centre.


message 2511: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments And in todays news:

Health care firm owned by Malcolm Rifkind awarded health care tender even though the bid was more expensive than the current NHS cost...

Tory snouts in the trough again.


Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo) (snibborg) | 8204 comments Or our current Home Secretary's husband who is CEO of Group 4.

No chance of problems there.


message 2513: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments It's always been going on. A relation of Gordon Brown ran the haulage company that got a lot of the contracts for moving carcasses during the FMD outbreak back in 2001.
Politicians need favours to get to the top and people tend to call the favours in.
It might be to give a mate a contract, or put the spouse or friend of their backer onto the board of a well paying quango.


message 2515: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Matt is one of the greats


Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo) (snibborg) | 8204 comments He must keep loads in his back pocket just waiting for the right moment.


Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) (nosemanny) | 8590 comments Metro headline today -"Corbyn's 'free vote' puts UK on brink of war".
Telegraph - "Air strikes in days as Corbyn retreats"
i - "Corbyn's climbdown'

Yes, of course it's all his fault. Unbelievable


message 2518: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 2992 comments Yup, disgraceful journalism.


message 2519: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments Is there any other sort?


message 2520: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments well the general consensus was that if Corbyn has stuck with a three line whip and the Labour MPs had all voted against, then Cameron wouldn't have even put the issue to the vote because he wanted more cross party support.

With most opinion polls in favour of bombing Syria, I suspect that a lot of MPs are being swayed by their constituents

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/25/...


message 2521: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments I support Corbyn's stance against war. But by caving in to his MPs' calls for a free vote he can't claim to be acting out of principle & conscience any more can he? He's rather succumbed to the politics of it all over the principle


message 2522: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments The problem is that Corbyn never seems to have had to learn pragmatism. He's never really been in a situation where his opinion ever mattered all that much. He had the freedom to stand up for his beliefs because it didn't matter what he said. Others could listen to him or ignore him pretty much without consequence. He had possibly the ultimate freedom born largely of irrelevance. (Which pretty much is what we have here when you stop to think about it :-) )

Note I'm not saying his beliefs were wrong or right, I'm just saying that he, like most of the rest of us, was largely irrelevant.

Now, suddenly, his opinion matters and people will act on it and he hasn't found a way to adjust.


message 2523: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments Jim wrote: "well the general consensus was that if Corbyn has stuck with a three line whip and the Labour MPs had all voted against, then Cameron wouldn't have even put the issue to the vote because he wanted ..."

To be honest Jim, I think those opinion polls are wrong or being rigged. I don't think there is any appetite for airstrikes - hence the huge, and largely unreported, demo in London against them recently


Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo) (snibborg) | 8204 comments In the great scheme of things, Will, a demo in London, not matter how huge, is not representative of the country as a whole.

I would suggest that there is a strong appetite for bombing ISIL targets in Syria. Currently they can use the border as a safe zone - cross it and perform your attack, then return over the border in the safe knowledge that you are safe from reprisal.


message 2525: by R.M.F. (new)

R.M.F. Brown | 2124 comments As always, it'll be up to the SNP to provide the opposition to Cameron's search abroad for political legitimacy.


message 2526: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments Mirror poll suggests 78% against airstrikes, Geoff (along with Nato Generals, who of course know nothing...)

Even the Mail is not convinced.


Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo) (snibborg) | 8204 comments Will wrote: "Mirror poll suggests 78% against airstrikes, Geoff (along with Nato Generals, who of course know nothing...)

Even the Mail is not convinced."


Who conducted the poll for The Mirror, Will?


Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) (nosemanny) | 8590 comments Well no-one has asked me. Or anyone I know


message 2529: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments me neither


message 2530: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments Not sure Geoff, and my internet just started messing about. I'll look when i can


message 2531: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments The ones I found were yougov.

Interesting comment on radio 4 this morning from yougov spokesman.
Basically he said the electorate seem fickle in this and were very quick to change from one view to the other and would tend to punish those who they though got it wrong.

This will probably mean both Corbyn and Cameron are going to get a kicking, but at different times :-)

There again as Enoch Powell said, "All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure"


message 2533: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments I hear that the Banking Bill has quiet sections reducing or removing the sanctions on banks and bankers who commit offences...


message 2534: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "So this ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/..."


governments do this. I suspect that it's always happened, I also suspect that a lot of it which is effectively covering up departmental 'issues' might be the result of civil servants burying the evidence of bad advice in the avalanche they know will happen.

After all it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Moore Jo Moore and Stephen Byres who got caught.
Interest for Patti, Jo Moore apparently retrained as a teacher after resigning over the issue


message 2535: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Anyone with thoughts on the 'murcan president's speech on new gun control measures?


message 2536: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 2992 comments It's a pigeon step in the right direction.


message 2537: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Step? That implies action. All I've seen are words.


message 2538: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Oh, and weeping. Mustn't forget the weeping.


message 2539: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 2992 comments Yeah, true, I was more talking about the proposed legislation.


message 2540: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Pissing in the ocean.

It's really telling that many of my American friends arranged to see their family outside of the states this holiday, rather than flying home.

And extremely telling that many of my American friends are asking me if I can sponsor them for Canadian citizenship. I'm quite used to be asked to sponsor people but surprised by being asked by Americans.

And before anyone asks, I can't. I'd have to be resident.


message 2541: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "Anyone with thoughts on the 'murcan president's speech on new gun control measures?"

There was a throw away line on the BBC radio news about it which seemed to indicate that the legal challenges could last long past when he stops being president


message 2542: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Could?


message 2543: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "Could?"

probably will, but perhaps they'll run out of money to pay the lawyers first?


message 2544: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments The 1% won't run out, Jim.


message 2545: by David (new)

David Manuel | 1112 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "The 1% won't run out, Jim."

More like the NRA won't run out.


message 2546: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "The 1% won't run out, Jim."

what strikes me is the way Americans seem to spend their time loathing other Americans.
Individual Americans can be delightful people, but there are times I feel like unfriending the entire nation on facebook!

Not because of what any of them do, but because of their reaction to each other


Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo) (snibborg) | 8204 comments Having seen Bowling for Columbine, you begin to realise that the US and Canada have similar gun laws and a similar ratio of population to guns. The problem is the American psyche. The gun owners see everyone else as "whack jobs" and potential murderers.


message 2548: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments never seen the programme, I did see a study which compared gun ownership in various states in the US and there was no real link between gun ownership and killing, what there was was a link between urban gun ownership and killing.
But the problem is that a lot of non-gun owners see all gun owners as whack jobs and regard hunting as barbaric and see no reason for anybody to keep their guns


Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo) (snibborg) | 8204 comments From what I have seen and read, in the US it's not just the non-gun owners who consider gun owners as whack jobs. Many people buy guns because they think that other gun owners are whack jobs.

There is one scene in the film where Michael Moore is in a gun shop and asks someone how many guns he owned. The guy said a number greater than three as I remember. He asked why he was in the store and was told he was buying another. He replied that there were mad people out there. When asked who, he replied you, him, anyone.

It was interesting that the start of the documentary MM was linking shootings to the number of guns available, but as the film progressed he moved more towards the mindset of Americans.


message 2550: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments The American mindset does worry me.
Historically I'd worry about their education system as well


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