UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
General Chat - anything Goes
>
The 'Take it Outside' thread This thread will no longer be moderated ***
message 2351:
by
Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)
(new)
Nov 12, 2015 06:23AM
I think that Jeremy Clarkson said that taking his wit along to HIGNFY was like taking a knife to a tank battle.
reply
|
flag
Merton particularly has a lightning mind
But seriously the letter reveals for me the complete economic incompetence of conservatives, in believing that the sale of capital assets can compensate for the loss of current account income.That is rank stupidity, and quite typical of their economic failure.
But this isn't something that is confined to politicians. The number of company heads that down't understand the significant difference between turnover and profit is truly frightening.But to come back to your point Will. It very much depends on what you do with the money and where the sale comes from.
For example, the sale of outstanding "bad" mortgages left behind by Brown's bailout, are a good thing, so long as the money goes to reducing the deficit and therefore reducing the interest.
After 30 years of accountancy Geoff, it is clear to me that most business owners do not appreciate that turnover does not automatically generate profit and that a capital purchase or sale impacts their profitability and their cash flow in very different ways.Unfortunately, when those in immediate charge of the country's finances fail to understand that a deficit of income cannot be rebalanced (more than once, anyway!) by a sale of capital assets then that seems to me to be a crisis!
There was another Conservative fool (Tory Business minister, I think,) on Question Time last night who seemed to believe that running a low tax economy would increase the Government's income and make more money available to spend on the NHS. Joined up thinking that is not.
I think he's referring indirectly to the Laffer curvehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_...
Like all economic theories it's probably wrong in detail but not too bad if you regard it as very broad brush
There's also work done on Capital Gains tax, a paper here by the Adam Smith Institute http://www.adamsmith.org/sites/defaul...
As an aside what is interesting from that paper is how rarely anybody gets the forecast of Capital gains tax correct!
The more I see the more I'm convinced that everything is being run by blaggers. They've blagged their way into a job and now haven't a clue what they are doing. I don't just mean politics, it's every sphere of management.
Jim wrote: "I think he's referring indirectly to the Laffer curvehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_...
Like all economic theories it's probably wrong in detail but not too bad if you regard it as very ..."
I knew that that paper would be ill researched the moment i saw the words; Adam Smith Institute.. and I was right, Jim. The paper makes a huge thing about the inability to shift revenue between capital gain and income. I can tell you that a very significant part of our tax code is in fact concerned with nothing else. And it is an undispuatble fact that most of our enormous tax code has originated to deal with the creative ideas that people have to get around the initial legislation. people have spent a great deal of time down the years inventing creative ways to move revenue into the lowest possible tax band, so their arguments just don't stand up to scrutiny at all.
The Wiki article on the Laffer Curve is illuminating, Jim: the last time it was tried was in Reagan's America. The result was a much lower growth in absolute revenue (as opposed to revenue expressed as a % of GDP) than before, coupled with a significant increase in net revenue for the top 1% of the population, with much smaller increases or even reductions in earnings for the rest.
No wonder it would appeal to Conservatives, is it?
Oh I'm not trying to defend the theories, just pointing out what was probably guiding the thinking.Me, I just gave up worrying because when you're in food production at my level, governments of all shades made damn sure income tax isn't going to be a major problem.
It will be interesting to see whether Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's expose of food waste by the supermarkets has any long term effect.The programs so far have been quite shocking - I knew it wasn't good, but didn't realise quite how much of the crops were rejected for cosmetic / short notice order changes.
Will wrote: "It will be interesting to see whether Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's expose of food waste by the supermarkets has any long term effect.The programs so far have been quite shocking - I knew it wasn't good, but didn't realise quite how much of the crops were rejected for cosmetic / short notice order changes. ..."
It's been going on for thirty years that I would swear to. I've talked to people older than me who came across it back in the 1970s
But here's an article from 2012, the line that might interest you is "“The gate fee,charged for food waste deliveries, accounts for 30% of the profits."
http://www.gaj.org.uk/files/gaj/uploa...
An interesting article about retailers and food waste from 2011 http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/yorksh...
There's another one of Hugh's ideas, a good one
http://greenhousepr.co.uk/feeding-5k-...
And just came across these figuresFor a agricultural buying group I'm a member of. It's based on the costings of each dairy herd in the group.
MOPF is Margin over purchased feed. It's the milk cheque minus the feed bill, but doesn't cover rent, machinery costs, fertiliser, labour, etc etc
October 2014 12 month rolling av. MOPF £1,933/cow
October 2015 12 month rolling av. MOPF £1,622/cow
To put it in perspective we were doing MOPF above £1600 back in the 1990s.
The only way to even break even now on a dairy farm is to have more than 300 cows
Brian Blessed kicked the s**t out of Merton and Hislop on HIGNFY. Good as they are, they could not compete with the Titan that is Blessed. Classic Episode.
what? Were you at the recording then last night? Or are you talking about an aged episode?
It's not only grown crops where the supermarkets are extremely exact. Marks and Spencer used to order stockings from a local hosiery manufacturer and even if a batch was perfect but the dye was not the exact shade to within a very very small tolerance they were rejected ad hoc. Same with buttonholes, elastic and stitching on items like pyjamas. They really crack the whip over suppliers.
Marc wrote: "what? Were you at the recording then last night? Or are you talking about an aged episode?"Aged episode :P
I was going to say. If you were down in London & didn't arrange a meet up drink with me I would have been irked. Bout time we got to see what an RMF looks like
The first one's awfy like me ;)
Marc wrote: "I was going to say. If you were down in London & didn't arrange a meet up drink with me I would have been irked. Bout time we got to see what an RMF looks like"I'm still hoping my nickname for him will catch on. ;)
Marc wrote: "I was going to say. If you were down in London & didn't arrange a meet up drink with me I would have been irked. Bout time we got to see what an RMF looks like"Nothing much to see. I'm a white male in his 30s, dark brown hair, and a face that's been exposed to too much Scottish rain over the years...and numerous sporting defeats. :)
R.M.F wrote: " Nothing much to see. I'm a white male in his 30s, dark brown hair, and a face that's been exposed to too much Scottish rain over the years...and numerous sporting defeats. :) ..."I've trying to remember the song, there was a bit in it about "The lines on his face held three days of rain"
:-)
that's what I mean, I want to trace the effects of erosion by failure :-)
Marc wrote: "that's what I mean, I want to trace the effects of erosion by failure :-)"Or the failure of erosion.
Marc wrote: "and what's that Patti?"Rumph
Let's not kid ourselves. Terrorism might be distasteful, disgusting, tragic, but it is neither senseless nor irrational.The use of terror as a political weapon in modern times goes back at least to the French Revolution where it was actually state supported, but the KKK,the IRA and even the women's suffrage movement in the UK used it. (http://www.historytoday.com/fern-ridd...)
The theory and practice is well know, Mao wrote extensively on it, as did Trotsky and others.
Let us think about the messages it is sending out.
ISIS can say to the population in Syria and Iraq (the Nationalist population, ignore religious affiliation), your previous leaders grovelled to the west, look, we have reduced France to panic. We have already killed those who mocked us in its streets, now we kill as we wish.
How does this message play to an audience who start off from a position of disliking the French? (They've never met a French person, they've just been brought up on the post colonial history books)
Actions like this bring support at home, destabilise enemies abroad and weaken their will to continue the fight.
It also boosts the standing of your policies among extreme elements in the minorities within the countries where you've spread terror and serves to alienate the less extreme elements from the native population.
It's text book stuff. Has nothing really to do with religion, (but a lot to do with intensity of belief which is why the Cheka and the Red Guards were so good at it). But this intensity of belief comes as an added extra. Perfectly 'rational' and 'reasonable' military/political leaders can use terror as part of the armoury. Vo Nguyen Giap, used it against the French in Indo-China. In 1956 he admitted he felt it had been a mistake, probably because it make unifying the country afterwards difficult.
"'Cadres, in carrying out their antifeudal task, created contradictions in thee tasks of land reform and the Revolution, in some areas treating them as if they were separate activities......we indiscriminately attacked all families owning land. Many thousands were executed. We saw enemies everywhere and resorted to widespread violence and terror. In some places, in our efforts to implement land reform, we failed to respect religious freedoms and the right to worship..... we placed too much emphasis on class origins rather than political attitudes..... There were grave errors.'"
this lot have taken it on by basically embracing death and welcoming it. Throwing up our arms in incomprehension is no longer an acceptable response. If we want to show solidarity with other citizens in peril, get informed.
I blogged on it
http://sulcicollective.blogspot.co.uk...
Powerful shit, Marc.May I have your permission to post it to my Facebook page, please?
Marc wrote: "this lot have taken it on by basically embracing death and welcoming it. Throwing up our arms in incomprehension is no longer an acceptable response. If we want to show solidarity with other citi..."
Tried to comment - Blogger locked me out - lost comment.
Well written.
Patti, you are closer to some terrorists than any of us. They've arrested three men in Molenbeke, near Brussels.
I'll look at the news now.
Jim, you missed one important aspect of terrorist theory there: that the violent actions are intended to spark an extreme reaction from the State which (it is hoped) will take repressive measures (the perpetrators come from this minority group - we will crack down on the entire minority) which can then be exploited to recruit more disaffected young people within the target country to the cause who can then be perverted and exploited
Yes that's where 'freelance' or 'private enterprise' terrorism differs from the original state deployed (not state sponsored) terrorismIt's one of the things that makes it difficult to deal with. Let us take a UK example. It is probable that the considerable majority of Islamic terrorists come from a Pakistani-Bengali background (which apparently means our terrorists aren't really in the same loop as the French ones who are largely Syrian/North African.
So what does the government do.
Impose controls on the entire population? Unpopular, probably couldn't do it because the House of Lords would kick off, and even if they did they haven't enough people to enforce it or monitor traffic or whatever. Far too expensive, both financially and in the damage it does to the rule of law and policing by consent.
Impose controls on that section of the population deemed to be the greater risk?
The is more possible, but it raises the problem that those members of that population who aren't involved feel oppressed and it probably causes a drift of support to the terrorists who are proved to be 'right'
Use monitoring to try and find the real terrorists and 'take them out.' Again expensive in time and money and the risk that the information needed by those doing the monitoring will lead to a lack of policing by consent, and problems with the house of Lords etc
Use counter terror. This to an extent is what the French did in Algeria. Even for those with strong stomachs the damage it can do to the victors is not pretty.
Into this area you can bring talk of forced repatriation, often of people who are second or third generation migrants.
At the moment we're probably doing the third. It's the one which probably causes the least damage to our society.
Note that the argument is that these things cannot be defeated militarily. This is probably technically true. But on the other hand, if Daesh were defeated and crushed in Syria, it would lose kudos and by being shown to have failed it would lose the ability to recruit.
Yes, after being crushed it would probably produce a wave of terror attacks to try and show it was still in operation, but a high body count among the perpetrators and efficient police follow-up would probably reduce it to the level of the PIRA now
French counter-terror in Algeria involved them planting bombs and blaming it on their foe. It was a particularly nasty campaign on both sides
Marc wrote: "French counter-terror in Algeria involved them planting bombs and blaming it on their foe. It was a particularly nasty campaign on both sides"Add to that torture and the effective suspension of human rights
Part of the problem with the current action HMG is taking is that you cannot measure positive results. Every militant who is turned away and rejoins society in a more normalised way is a great success - but how can that be recorded and measured? Only the failures stand out.
Given the Arab psyche and the treatment of the Harkis in the past - it's no wonder that these young men are so susceptible to being radicalised via the Internet. They don't even have to go outside to receive their orders and indoctrination. Is it my imagination but Muslim women seem to be more and more submissive to their male relatives than ever. There is a correlation.
and yet many women quite rebellious in disobeying their parents to go join ISIS as soldier brides. I think the generational thing is significant. But also don't overlook the disgust with the sexualised, consumer-driven Western societies they find themselves growing up in and which they reject as hollow and seek out alternatives. This was certainly true of the Mohammad Atta who was the leader of the 9/11 bombers. As an analysis of Western culture I have some sympathy with such a view. The problem comes with their alternative remedies, such as a return to some imagined 7th century purity and simplicity (which evidently still permits electronic gadgets in order to access the internet).
Will wrote: "Part of the problem with the current action HMG is taking is that you cannot measure positive results. Every militant who is turned away and rejoins society in a more normalised way is a great succ..."I think the only measure there is is the decline or increase in the number of bombings.
In real terms it's the only one that is quantifiable.
A lot of the stuff we want to deal with is unmeasurable. How do you measure alienation? How do you weigh it against the alienation of another community?
One serious problem may be the alienation of the white working class community that might or might not have led to the vote for UKIP. Solutions have to reach out to all communities. Any solution suggested which regards the values of one community as worth less than the values of another will just produce more problems
UK Amazon Kindle Forum
Books mentioned in this topic
The Beiderbecke Affair (other topics)The Grain Market in the Roman Empire: A Social, Political and Economic Study (other topics)
The Peasants Are Revolting (other topics)
How to Lie with Statistics (other topics)
That Old Ace in the Hole (other topics)
More...
