UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
General Chat - anything Goes
>
The 'Take it Outside' thread This thread will no longer be moderated ***
message 1801:
by
Will
(new)
Sep 16, 2015 11:43PM
'The one qualification shared by many of the world's leaders is J B . Jailed by the British.' - Yes Minister.
reply
|
flag
Garibaldi was welcomed in 1864 and big crowds followed him around the country. Notts Forest play in red as a tribute to him and his volunteer army who wore red shirts by way of uniform.
The inner pedant in me is free to roam today. It ss Nottingham Forest and Notts County. Though the county ground is within the city of Nottingham and the Forest ground is just over the border in the county.
Quite right, Lynne. I was just being a lazy typist.
As a Derby fan, I could.... but I won't :-)
Interesting study on the 2015 GE on bbc news that says being left-wing didn't cost Labour the election...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics...
Key points: Voting for Labour actually harmed Labour :)
Bear with me. Basically, Lib Dem voters switching to Labour let the Tories sneak in on certain seats, as their vote held. If the voters had stuck with Lib Dems, there would have been at least 7 fewer Tory seats...
Let that sink in for a minute...
Labour staying left = no net gain, Labour trying to out Tory the Tories = people thinking we may as well go for the real McCoy and vote Tory...
The Blairites can stick that up their Khybers :)
And my favourite: fear of the SNP didn't harm Labour, as SNP gains weakened the Lib/Tory coalition and made a Labour victory more likely.
Losing in England, not Scotland, harmed Labour...
Nonsense. There is a grain of truth in what you say, but the Tory vote only held up because many of those who had initially defected to UKIP, lost their nerve at the thought of a Lab-SNP pact (given how radical the SNP are) and came back to the Tories. Meanwhile those UKIP voters who had defected from Labour stayed with UKIP. And by the way, Miliband's Labour Party was not left-wing. It was portrayed that way in the Press and flirting with a radical SNP may have given that further veneer, but fundamentally Miliband accepted the Tory economic agenda other than his idea to cap utility prices and maybe attack zero hours contracts.
The interesting part of that study was this:Their analysis suggests voters were just as likely to back Labour whether it was seen as a party on the far left, or just to the left of centre.
But they warn the economic crash of 2008 appears to have fundamentally changed voters' views on whether Labour can be trusted on the economy.
Which is what also killed the referendum - the voters didn't believe what Salmond was saying. As Clinton said - It's about the economy, stupid!
It's the old chestnut about Labour bankrupting the country and the Tories clean up the mess afterwards, which is nonsense. I remember the 1990s and the Black Wednesday fiasco, which happened on the Tories' watch.
Not to mention Ted Heath and the 3 Day Week!
I think any sensible person does not blame the crash of 2008 on the Labour government. What I blame the Labour government for was the amount of debt that they lumbered us with, caused by their continued spending. In many ways, that government was a lot like Bernie Madoff, using new borrowing to pay down earlier debt. The crash did to the government, exactly the same as it did to Madoff, it exposed the con.
By the next election the choice will be stark: Tories = debt, privatised health (and TTIP!)and no public service worth mentioning : Labour = a bit higher debt and better public services, and an NHS .A clearer choice than there has been for ages.
well labour have to establish that in people's minds then. Something Miliband failed to do. Also have to overcome mindset that Labour can't be trusted to run a capitalist economy and balance the books (relatively)
Also assumes Labour don't tear themselves apart with internal divisions, or that there isn't a coup 3 years down the line or that their donors don't pull their funds
Marc wrote: "well labour have to establish that in people's minds then. Something Miliband failed to do. Also have to overcome mindset that Labour can't be trusted to run a capitalist economy and balance the bo..."I've yet to see these books. Has anybody any idea what they look like?
no mention of any of our political parties, other than The Greens!
Oh FFS, I am getting bored of the newspapers producing more and more inanely negative facts about Jeremy Corbyn's private life.Earlier this week we were informed that he had "had a fling" with Diane Abbott. Now we are being told that he also had a "fling" with another Labour politician. This person is not named. Let's hope its Peter Tatchell.
I wish the press would just leave him alone. He will implode in his own time without any outside assistance. He is ill equipped for leadership and this will appear soon enough.
Evidently 457 is the key number. The bookies are taking bets on this being how many days he lasts. In the last election and the Scottish referendum, the bookies were spot on when the pollsters were way off.
hang on a moment then. Why not sack the professional pollsters and just have the bookies take the political pulse of the nation?
True, Geoff, but considering Corbyn's background, his Marxist influences, his 12 ex-wives or something coming out the woodwork, and the potential for comedy and disaster at every turn, don't ever say that British politics is boring :)Personally, I can't wait to see the Blairites launch another aborted coup against Corbyn. I remember the last one against Brown. Funny stuff :)
I reckon Corbyn has let out one or two stinking farts in the packed lifts over at Labour HQ during his time.Can't wait to hear about it from some disgruntled intern next week.
Marc wrote: "hang on a moment then. Why not sack the professional pollsters and just have the bookies take the political pulse of the nation?"The bookies couldn't take the drop in pay.
they could do it as a bit of moonlighting
Standing by for the Torygraph/Daily Mail headline:Jeremy Corbyn ate my hamster!!!!!
he's a vegetarian isn't he? More like "Jeremy Corbyn refused to move my cheese"
"jeremy Corbyn involved in felching scandal"
Michael Cargill wrote: "I reckon Corbyn has let out one or two stinking farts in the packed lifts over at Labour HQ during his time.Can't wait to hear about it from some disgruntled intern next week."
metaphorically I think you've summed it up. He was never a team player and has somehow ended up having to lead the team
From his point of view I think that winning has been a disaster.
Previously he could stand on the sidelines and he probably had a fair bit of influence, certainly out of proportion to his 'weight' as an MP. He could lead by example, take a 'moral' stance, rebel when his conscience was offended and by doing so he was a constant reminder to those in power in his party as to where the true heart of socialism was.
Now his position is really bad, he was to succeed or fail utterly. Unless he can produce a Labour Party that looks like it can win an election, or at least increase the share of the vote, when he slides down the slippery pole, he'll go all the way down because he's lost the niche he had. Whenever he pontificates from the sidelines folk will just shrug and say 'we tried it your way and boy did it suck.'
He might be able to do it, I genuinely don't know, I'm just awfully glad I'm not in his shoes at the moment.
probably boosted his pension though by being elevated to a Party leader?
Well, his salary has risen by £72,000 a year. And I thought I was well paid!
Well, Sturgeon has been telling everyone that the UK is living on borrowed time.I think she has realised that she's lost. Although the yes and no percentage difference has closed, it has now stalled in the No camp's favour. She is now desperately trying to keep the debate alive. Unfortunately, she is just making things worse going on like this.
If she doesn't achieve the same level of support in the Scottish elections, she's dead in the water and the only way is down.
I'm really depressed now.
Jim wrote: "Michael Cargill wrote: "I reckon Corbyn has let out one or two stinking farts in the packed lifts over at Labour HQ during his time.Can't wait to hear about it from some disgruntled intern next w..."
I hate agreeing with you :) but you're right. If Corbyn fails then the Blairites will be able to say that Britain doesn't want a left-wing labour party anymore, and they'll shift labour back to the right.
the irony being Britain doesn't really trust Labour to out-capitalist the Tories on the economy either. So either way Labour is probably done
Marc wrote: "the irony being Britain doesn't really trust Labour to out-capitalist the Tories on the economy either. So either way Labour is probably done"It was done in 1983.
R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "the irony being Britain doesn't really trust Labour to out-capitalist the Tories on the economy either. So either way Labour is probably done"It was done in 1983."
how do you figure that when Blair became the longest serving Labour PM in history? Yes it eventually showed up the contradictions within the two wings of the Labour Party, but then Thatcherism died out yet the Tories have been able to regroup & prosper
Marc wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "the irony being Britain doesn't really trust Labour to out-capitalist the Tories on the economy either. So either way Labour is probably done"It was done in 1983."
how..."
By 1997, the Tory party was that knackered, that despised by the electorate, the Krankies could have won by a landslide.
Against William Hague and IDS? Who wouldn't have won?
Now the cracks in Osborne's economic ideas start to show:Small growth in wage rates: falling rates of employment, falling productivity and one of the B O E Monetary committee has mentioned negative interest rates to stop the 'weak recovery' falling apart.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2...
Will wrote: "Against William Hague and IDS? Who wouldn't have won?"I had forgotten how bad that pair were.
There was an interesting piece in the Private Eye from a few weeks ago..'What the headlines said compared to what Corbyn actually said.'
Have you got the issue, Geoff?
I don't have it with me to quote from it.
R.M.F wrote: "Will wrote: "Against William Hague and IDS? Who wouldn't have won?"I had forgotten how bad that pair were."
no worse than Tories having to overcome Michael Foot & Neil Kinnock
Remember that the Tories had UK flags at Downing Street flown at half mast when the last of these tyrants died...http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-ne...
Her Majesty's governments have had a fine history of dining with tyrants over the years.
Indeed. Mrs T and General Pinochet come to mind.
Or Harold Wilson shaking hands with Romanian prime minister in Number 10. I'd guess that all of them, without exception, have done business with Tyrants. Think of the Soviet leaders we've flattered over the yearsPersonally I'd rather they flattered them than got indignant and sent our young men out to die deposing them
UK Amazon Kindle Forum
Books mentioned in this topic
The Beiderbecke Affair (other topics)The Grain Market in the Roman Empire: A Social, Political and Economic Study (other topics)
The Peasants Are Revolting (other topics)
How to Lie with Statistics (other topics)
That Old Ace in the Hole (other topics)
More...
