Clean Reads discussion
Books I've had to put down and why
Lora wrote: "How do you folks 'rate' sad endings? At what point does a sad ending become a depressing downer mess and at what point is it good writing? This isn't what we usually think of regarding clean reads,..."I see where youre coming from Lora. While I would still rate the book as clean if it has an unhappy ending I do like to say in my reviews whether its a HEA (or at least hopeful) for those who need to know that before investing days into a reading. I havent read a really horrible ending in a loooong time, probably the sadest ending for me was The Boy in the Striped Pajamas but honestly I don't think it could have ended any other way and still made the point and so I still think its a fabulous book/movie.
Usually it depends on how well the sadness is handled. If my favorite character dies, it's out the window. One book that I was sure would be a favorite was ruined in the last chapter when the heroine walked off a curb and was run over by a wagon. No reason at all. On the other hand, one of my favorite books, "For the Master's Sake", by Sarah Holt, did end with the death of a favorite character. But we were prepared for it by his imprisonment and trial, and even though I had hopes of a HEA, it was not believable at the time period of English history. The man was martyred for refusing to kowtow to England's accepted religion. So in a way it was also his triumph.
For the first, the heroine's death made no sense and was only a whim on the part of the author. The girl who had breathed life into the sad people around her was suddenly dead, and we didn't even see how they dealt with it. There was no lessons to be had from the story.
For the second, there was a reason for the sad story. The strong message was, "We have a future hope and they do not" and "Any injustice this heinous should be remembered as a warning to future generations." It was also based on a true story.
Lora, for me, there must be two things: the sad event must serve a purpose, and that purpose must be inspiring to me, over all. I know it sounds odd, but it's true. If a hero's sacrifice inspires me to help others, then it's good. If a character's death or circumstances or heavy emotions seem pointless, I don't like it. I am someone who needs hope, even when things don't work out as a HEA ending.
I'm simple. I'll take a totally unbelievable happy ending that came down from Mars over a sad ending that makes sense. If it ends sad, it's an auto one star and in the rubbish bin forever. I may actually hate sad endings more than expletives, asinine sex scenes, and gore. Though any of those can kill a book dead as well.
This is likely one reason I switched to romance novels. Happily ever after every time! :-)
This is likely one reason I switched to romance novels. Happily ever after every time! :-)
One of my all time favorite books is sad, but it ends on a note of hope. (Out of the Dust) I read another book, also really sad, that was good, but it ended with a feeling of desolation. I enjoyed reading it, but it left me feeling down. I won't recommend it or read it again.
So, for me, it's more than sad or happy. I enjoy experiencing many different emotions through reading. But the element of hope, as W.A. said, is huge.
Right now I am reading The Blessing Way by Tony Hillerman, which I am liking it so far. The storyline is very intriguing, but there has been some foul language, I decided to continue reading because I'm really enjoying it but then I came across something else that I found foul. A 15-year old girl starts flirting with a police detective, but the authour never let's you know if he thinks it'wrong or right because he's very ambiguous. Basically, while the girl was talking to him, she asks him a questions that was in an obvious flirtatious way, and he just casually answers it back. This really really bothers me, because I really like it this book, but this one little thing just sticks a thorn in my side.
Also, right before she started flirting with him, there was a song that was playing that could've been interpreted sexually, and then he thought what does she think about these lyrics? It was just such a strange thing to happen right before she started flirting with him. It left me feeling uncomfortable, but it made me really sad and upset too because I was really liking the book.
I read on another website that Runelords, by David Farland, was a clean read. While it is *relatively* mild on the language, the sexual references make me quite uncomfortable. The worst part, in my estimation, is that virtually all of those references are gratuitous --serving no real purpose in the story except to introduce some sexuality to the given scene. I will not allow my children to read any of the series.
Here's a link to a list of books whose content has been questioned within the past year. It gives a brief synopsis of why, including mature or profane reasons. Of course this group is against cleanliness of literature, so the thoughts are phrased in a derogatory tone, but it can still be useful to us...http://www.ila.org/BannedBooks/ALA016...
I'd like to add one that I recently read. I didn't put it down, but came very close and was disappointed with some of the content. Sabriel by Garth Nix has a couple of sexually-influenced scenes that I felt were in no way necessary and detracted from the over all storyline. I can't recommend this book to anyone for reading because of this.
I do find it ironic that I have used the ALA list to help me avoid certain kinds of books, but there it is. :)
I did find it very ironic that it stated, in one spot, that parents felt that "the R-rated material was inappropriate for teens" on a Jodi Picoult book. Like...isn't that the point of the R rating??
Jess wrote: "What is ALA list?"Hi Jess,
The ALA list is the list of books put out by the American Libraries Association. It's a list of banned books that people object to because of various forms of content- some objections of which I agree with, and others I do not. But the reason for the list is actually to offer support to those books when in fact I use the list to help me know which books I wish to avoid. If you scroll up the thread a bit you'll find Hannah's links. Be very careful, however. The books have explicit scenes which the list then repeats ad nauseum at times.
Thank you for your answer, I was not familiar with the list I might have to carefully check it out. :)
Keep in mine that some of that stuff is really bad, sure, but some is just stuff like Mark Twain, and I think I heard of Charlotte's Web being challenged. There's quite a range of books on the list!
Amanda wrote: "Laura wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I agree with you Laura. I have been thinking about starting my own list of books I have read and giving them some sort of rating so I can share that recommendation wi..."You know, another good thought is a list of clean authors.
Jessica wrote: "i am so happy to have found this group! i have to tell you that Water For Elephants is not one that should be read. I am still scarred by what I did read, it is very sexual and the swear words are..."Thanks for the warning about Water for Elephants I just downloaded it from Kindle Unlimited.I was not sure about it from the description.
This one is not a fiction novel: The Civilization of the Middle AgesI stopped because of his awful assumptions. This is a fat, exhaustively researched text and probably used in colleges. His research on the middle ages seems solid. It was his other assumptions that made me give up. He talks about each of the major religions, and he makes an insulting assumption about Jesus Christ (and women). He comments that Christ treated prostitutes with respect, and this could only be because he had intimate relations with them.
Folks, not all filth is a swear word, but filthy bad reasoning. There are so many things wrong with this I'm not sure where to start. As a believer in Christ, this threw me for a loop. And it's not the first time I've seen this bad logic.
Cathy wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Laura wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I agree with you Laura. I have been thinking about starting my own list of books I have read and giving them some sort of rating so I can share that re..."I think I saw one of those on here. Hm. Not very helpful. We could probably use a new list. :)
I had to put down The Jane Austen Marriage Manual by Kim Izzo. It was shallow and trivial and not worthy of having Jane Austen's name attached to it.
Still life with Bread Crumbs. No details (at least as far as I got) but the constant discussion of intimate situations, sexual indiscretions etc. I had to send it back to the library.
I threw away a brand new copy of Return to the Secret Garden. I was stupid and bought it based on the bookseller's recommendation. It was supposed to be a continuation of The Secret Garden, but aside from the characters and title, all it seemed to be was a story full of betrayal, and sexual appetite. What's worse is that I was a young adult at the time, and I was hoping for a return to that innocent world with some of my favorite literary characters. Lesson learned. My mantra is to check a book out from the library and try it out before thinking about buying it.
How many of us have done that? I know I have. I have learned to be extremely cautious about books trying to recapture the world of a classic book. Why can't folks make up their own, anyway?
I Was Really Enjoying This Until The F Bomb Appeared Out Of No-Where
I picked up "Noble Satyr: A Georgian Historical Ronmance" by Lucinda Brant recently. I couldn't get into it. The writing style and language turned me off. Normally I love historical romances, but this book ranks among the worst I've ever read.
I tried to read People of the Book. Within a few pages, the protagonist went to bed with a man she had just met. No explicit details, but I was having a hard time liking the protagonist because of this. A few pages further, and the book moved its little toe right up to my boundary line again, and then again. None of this was terrible. If it was not going to get any worse, I could keep going, but I decided that I didn't want to. I wasn't enjoying the book because I kept wondering about the next offense. There are too many "clean reads" out there, deserving of my time, to have to put up with "dirty toes on my boundary line."
Oh, I'd wondered about that one. I held off because I sort of sensed it went in that kind of direction. Yeah, I think I'll pass. I can find loads of wonderful books where I don't have to read with all filters on.
I had to put down The Time Traveler's wife when the language went R rated in the first few pages.
Cathy wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Laura wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I agree with you Laura. I have been thinking about starting my own list of books I have read and giving them some sort of rating so I can share that re..."Great Idea!
Brian wrote: "I just put down The Pawn by Steven James. I'm currently loving his book on how to write, "Story Trumps Structure" and was eager to try one of his thrillers. I only read the prologue and it was so g..."Brian, I just put down The Pawn the other day, too (having forgotten about reading your comment here). Same reason. That prologue was just more than I cared for. I even flipped through/skimmed the several pages to the end of the prologue and it was still going on. Didn't seem a good harbinger for the rest of the book, so I put it down and walked away. Life's too short to spend it on books that start out making me go ugh.
Brian wrote: "I just put down The Pawn by Steven James..."The Pawn was much more graphic than I anticipated as well, which surprised me coming from a Christian publisher. It's kept me from reading his other books, even though I love suspense. No language, but very gruesome at times.
I just put down Sand by Hugh Howey. I enjoyed his Wool series (which did have some language, mainly in later installments) but this one has much more. Too bad as I like the idea.
I loved the Pawn. It was gruesome, but that doesn't really bother me. Language and sex though, are big no-no's. Which is why I wish I had put down Fault in our Stars. I didn't like it as a story, for one thing. And it just didn't meet my standard of clean.
S.A. wrote: "My two latest: Esther: royal beauty by Angela Hunt, and Steelheart by Brandon Sanderson.
Esther because of poor writing and a poor focus, along with a strange obsession with eunuchs, castration, ..."
I Have Read Steelheart
Are You Sure We Read The Same Book???
Because Steelheart is Completely * Clean*
Esther because of poor writing and a poor focus, along with a strange obsession with eunuchs, castration, ..."
I Have Read Steelheart
Are You Sure We Read The Same Book???
Because Steelheart is Completely * Clean*
I Had to Put Down
Because It Has Nudity
Because It Has Nudity
I did not put this book down, but probably should have. The Orchid House. There were a few curse words and a couple of pretty mild sex scenes. But I can handle that. What I had difficulty with is the fact that the entire book is based on extra -marital affairs and how hard it is to stay with your spouse out of duty when your true love is a 17 year old girl you met inThailand during WWII. Seriously. I don't have a problem with affairs being mentioned in a book but just want to give the warning that in this story, the affair is glamourized and portrayed as true undying love. Also - don't get me started on the terrible writing! No, I did not put this book down but I should have!
The Lady Elizabeth by Alison WeirStopped reading because of extremly explicit sexual content.
I stopped listening to "And Then She Fell" by Stephanie Lauren's. Very graphic sex scene.
I stopped listening to "And Then She Fell" by Stephanie Lauren's. Very graphic sex scene.
I stopped listening to "And Then She Fell" by Stephanie Lauren's. Very graphic sex scene.
Does anyone else have the problem that they tend to read fast, especially the first time they read a book, and they get halfway wallowed into some ugly scene before they can stop their eyes and pull back? This happens to me, and one of my kids has had this happen to her. It's my own fault, for reading in gulps, but at the same time, I regret seeing those scenes that I can not then unsee. Or at least it takes time to root it out of accessible memory.
Yeah, I definitely have that problem Lora, especially when the plot is sweeping me along.
I put down Gone Girl because of the F word-- over and over again. I should know that if its in the first few pages, it's going to be throughout the whole book.
Thanks, I believe it is on my list to read. I guess I won't bother now.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets so caught up in the book that all of a sudden you just stop and think holy cow did I really just read all of that I can't believe I didn't put this down how many pages ago!
Two books that I would recommend avoiding: The Doom Brigade and Draconian Measures, both by Don Perrin and Margaret Weis. They have excessive amounts of language in them, and while I like the stories and characters, I cannot recommend them to anyone.
I haven't read any Brandon Sanderson, and now I know not to. Thanks for the heads up. I'm not LDS myself, but I've read several books by LDS members with the expectation they would be clean. I guess it would be wise not to assume they are just because they are LDS.
Clean Reads
Books mentioned in this topic
The Rose Code (other topics)The Rose Code (other topics)
Death, Taxes, and Sweet Potato Fries (other topics)
Never Too Late: From Wannabe to Wife at 62 (other topics)
Spin the Dawn (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Karen M. McManus (other topics)Kendare Blake (other topics)
William Faulkner (other topics)
Bryan Davis (other topics)
Robert Goolrick (other topics)
I suspect some of this will depend on the reader. Especially if someone has a certain experience that carries over into their reading- the reading can then either trigger depression or become a cathartic event.
I don't go looking for happy endings necessarily, but so many sad endings lack meaning or hit me over the head. Well, honestly, so do some happy endings.
What say you?