Katabasis

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

This thread is to discuss Katabasis by R.F. Kuang.

Pages: 400 pages

Length: 1 month (September)

Participants: Alina, Cordelia, Dominique, Rachael, Marie

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.

Here are some questions to help get the conversation started! Feel free to look up discussion questions specific to this book or come up with your own. Just make sure any questions that contain spoilers are under spoiler tags.
Discussion questions are not required but may be a fun way to talk about the book and get to know each other!

Prior to starting:
What prompted you to join this buddy read?
Have you read this author before? What do you think of their other books?

Mid-read:
What character or ideas do you relate to the most and why?
Do you have any favorite quotes or scenes?

After reading:
What was enjoyable or not-so-enjoyable about this book?
Did this book change your perception about anything, either within the book (character development) or in real life?

[Marie (UK)]

I am so looking forward to this book. It will be my first group read in this group. I can't start until my mobile alarm clocks (the grandchildren) have gone home on Tuesday next week but my copy has arrived hot off the press.
I have read and enjoyed other books by this author and had pre-ordered the book so the timing is just perfect for me

[Surabhi]

Hello All ! I would love to join this buddy read

[Dominique]

Welcome Marie and Surabhi!

I pre-ordered the book months ago and received it on Wednesday. Can't wait to dive into it!

[Rachael]

I'm about to start reading this! I really enjoyed Babel by the same author and am hoping this is just as good!

[Sophie]

I started the audiobook katabasis on Monday and find it harder to follow than I expected, not having read Dante. But I would love to join

[Rachael]

I have already read 10 chapters and I'm loving it so far! You can tell R.F. Kuang has done meticulous research with lots of literary references, mathematics and logic theories. My only criticism is (view spoiler)[the rivals to lovers vibe which seemed obvious to me from the main characters' first meeting (hide spoiler)]

[John]

Enjoying the novel a great deal. The literary references are a delight. The two main characters are rich and complex. The writer creates a number of very scary scenes.

[Sophie]

it reminds me of c.s. Lewis the pilgrim's regress and some other quest books, a German young adult one was called Schattenbruder shadow brother by Max Kruse

[Rachael]

I'm up to Chapter 20 now. (view spoiler)[I'm enjoying the relationship between Alice and Peter a lot and it's not bothering me anymore that I think Kuang is doing the rivals/lovers thing (hide spoiler)]

[Rachael]

Up to Chapter 24. (view spoiler)[Heartbreaking. I have to keep reading to find out what's happened to Peter. I like how much detail we have learnt about Alice and Peter's backstory. (hide spoiler)]

[Marie (UK)]

I am about to start this but it is bedtime here so tomorrow

[Marie (UK)]

I have read up to the start of chapter 4. I like the way the author is building the world set-up her characters find themselves in and the initial characterisation of the characters. (view spoiler)[ I agree with Rachael that the Hate,Hate - Love Love vibe is patently obvious.
I was really interested by "the cost" of visiting hell and the interpretation Alice has put on that. She seems to have assumed her life will be long and that she will achieve everything she wants in a narrow time window, after which life will be probably be pointless anyway. I wonder how anyone else views that cost - maybe in my 20's i would have been happy to reach middle age but now that I am approaching my 70's I want to live to see my grandchildren grow, to watch them achieve maybe their marriages and babies. My husband has a life limiting disease the treatment of which can be unpleasant but might extend his life by more than a decade and that outweighs any concerns about side effects (hide spoiler)]

I am enjoying the writing style and the defining of the attributes magicians (view spoiler)[ of having days devoted profound deep thinking and magick being the art of telling lies (hide spoiler)]

There seems to be a quirky humour underlying the narrative line

[Marie (UK)]

I am up to the start of Chapter 10. There is a lot packed into this book on many different levels. (view spoiler)[ I am getting lost in some of the mathematics but don't know of that matters. I would love to know what the author's own religious views are (hide spoiler)]

[Rachael]

I've finished. It was amazing! I was so engrossed I just couldn't stop reading. I can't wait to talk about certain bits more when you all get there.
Marie, it was interesting to read your comments about (view spoiler)[the cost of life to visit hell. You'll get an insight later into how Peter feels about that. (hide spoiler)]
Also, I feel like I want to reread Babel now.

[Marie (UK)]

I am at the half way point. There is such a lot to this book, philosophy / literature/ Maths are very evident. However there are things going on under the surface (view spoiler)[ Is the author examining the human psyche and emotional angst? What makes one person the eternal optimist and the next, the very opposite (hide spoiler)]

I have loads of burning questions about this book. I feel like I will have to read it again to fully flesh these out or even attempt to answer them.

Mid-read:
What character or ideas do you relate to the most and why?
Do you have any favorite quotes or scenes?

I am not sure I relate more to either of Alice and Peter
(view spoiler)[ I have loads of quotes and questions
"the constant managing of despair" can anyone live in that sort of state? How would you manage that?
"define the good" I would suggest this is very difficult to do
I loved the idea of "book sniffing" in the desire level of the book

I cannot make my mind up as to what is the most important concept in the book - is it religion / philosophy /books and knowledge or actions. (hide spoiler)]

I am astounded at the complexity of RF Kuang's narrative. I find some of it very difficult to unpack. Whilst I am enjoying the book I think how the author brings all the threads together will affect the rating I give.

I read that there is already a TV series in the pipeline and I think it will transfer well to the screen

[Marie (UK)]

Sophie wrote: "I started the audiobook katabasis on Monday and find it harder to follow than I expected, not having read Dante. But I would love to join"

I think the audiobook would be a very difficult listen because of the complexity of the narrative.

Do you read a lot of audio editions Sophie? Where / when do you listen?

I do listen to audio but find it has to be a less demanding read than this book. I listen mainly in the car so some days may only get half hour snippets - more on longer journeys. I sometimes listen when doing my kitchen clean which can take a while.

[Rachael]

What character or ideas do you relate to the most and why? (view spoiler)[Sometimes I relate to both main characters; other times I don't. For example, I didn't get why Alice was so defensive and accepting of Grimes' behaviour but it does make sense as you read on. (hide spoiler)]
Do you have any favorite quotes or scenes? My favourite scene is around chapter 23. (view spoiler)[I mentioned in an earlier comment it was heartbreaking but I just liked how Peter and Alice finally properly talked to each other. The sacrifice is memorable. (hide spoiler)]

[Marie (UK)]

I didnt get to read at all yesterday was out in the morning and had a flare up of gall bladder problem just waiting to see doctor - will get back to it when I can

[Sophie]

picked up the audiobook again, a lot of my reading now is done by audio (only British I neither can stand pure American nor my native German on Audio) and a lot of the time I find it easier to follow complex themes on audio than in writing it's like a lecture. yesterday I looked at the print edition and decided it does not help at the moment. What is the meaning of the three maps though?

[Sophie]

Morag Sims does a beautiful shifting towards RP sophisticated US accent for Alice

[Rachael]

Sophie wrote: "What is the meaning of the three maps though?
I don't think this counts as a spoiler as it does mention a journey to hell in the book description on here but I'll keep it vague.
The three maps are how certain characters visualise their trip through hell.

[Alina]

Whoa already so much traffic in this thread!
I was on vacation until yesterday and when I arrived in my hometown I went straight to the bookstore to pick up my copy!

I just finished Babel a week ago and really enjoyed it.
Hopefully it´ll be the same with Katabasis - I´ll start today. I haven´t read Dante so I hope I can still follow.

Also R.F: Kuang will have a tour-stop only an hour from me in two weeks time and I´m still debating if I should go.

[Marie (UK)]

I have finished it has been a slow latter half as I haven' been at all well. I thoroughly enjoyed the book there were some complicated sections and I am not sure I have them all in straight in my head. I think - like other books by this author this will be one you can re-read and find something new in
It appears to me (view spoiler)[ that none of the characters have particularly good self esteem. Although I said at the beginning that I wasn't convinced by the love / hate trop between Alica and Peter I think it served a purpose. I don't think either of them would have got through the journey without the need to help the other as they didnt' feel themselves important enough (hide spoiler)]
I thought the chapters (view spoiler)[where you hear the backstory for Alice and Peter are really important (hide spoiler)]
But i think the whole book is much more that the narrative line or the characterisation. There is so much that you can turn into a question to ask yourself. For Instance (view spoiler)[ what if you lost the one talent for which you are known - in this case Magick - what would your talent be and how would you deal with the absence of it?
What effect do you think being unable to forget anything would have on you? I am not thinking of facts but what about past events that hurt you etc? I am a believer in what is past is past and you cannot change it- you need to let it fade into the background even if you never forget it there has to be a change on it's affect on you.

On Page 331 Alice feels as if " someone has last granted her a place to land" Oh how we all need that (hide spoiler)]

I would love to know so much more about the author. What are her own religious beliefs and philosophies on life are just a start

End of book questions
What was enjoyable or not-so-enjoyable about this book?
For the most part I enjoyed this book it was pacy and full of action. I did struggle with some of the complexities and did need a dictionary for some of the words - who even knew what the word Katabasis meant before they started?

Did this book change your perception about anything, either within the book (character development) or in real life?

Whether it changed my view about anything is debatable - I am a committed Christian - I believe in Heaven and Hell - not necessarily in the way described here, but I can accept that it is one way of looking at it However it has made me think about how some of the deadly sins might be evident in life and there is so much to ponder over in the writing.

[Sophie]

Finished yesterday. In another thread I am reading the Tenant of wildfell hall and found it interesting to compare Anne Brontes ideas of afterlife to katabasis. There is a discussion among lovers, who cannot meet: she: we will meet in heaven he: but not as we are now it gives me little consolation to think I shall next behold you as desembodied spirit or an altered being with a frame perfect gloroius but not like this.

later he says can you contemplate with delight this prospect of losing me in this sea of glory?

I found this very challenging in comparison to Kuangs seas of shades. And the victorian newspapers did not like it either: they insisted on hell.

[Janine]

I got my library hold in sooner than expected, so I'm going to tag onto this if that's ok! Hoping to start this weekend. I read Babel in July as a buddy read and enjoyed it, so I decided to give this a go.

[Dominique]

Finished.

(view spoiler)[ It was interesting the way she portrayed hell in the book. Loved the Pov's of both of them as to why they both went to hell to retrieve Grimes. Her to get fame and recognition and was willing to do anything and Peter admitting that he didn't give the right instructions for revenge was a great way to really know who the real Peter was.

I did have to look up some names to clearly understand them but I think that's what she wanted to make us dig into the interpretation of hell. (hide spoiler)]

[Janine]

I've made it about half way through and am enjoying it. I agree with Rachael (view spoiler)[that there was a very strong rivals to lovers vibe right from the start. I don't feel the need for that (and maybe it won't come to fruition) but I still like both characters and am fascinated by their backstories and what's going on with them. (hide spoiler)]

I hadn't realised this one was partially set at Cambridge, like Bable was at Oxford. I wish there was more of that because I know Cambridge so well and love seeing references to things I know!

[Sophie]

Janine wrote: "I've made it about half way through and am enjoying it. I agree with Rachael [spoilers removed]

I hadn't realised this one was partially set at Cambridge, like Bable was at Oxford. I wish there wa..."

I realised, that I do not know Cambridge at all, and the difference it makes, that in the Oxford books I always have some orientation

[Janine]

I think familiarity with the location does make a small difference - it's fun to have that spark of recognition, and like you said orient yourself a bit. I'm sure it doesn't detract massively not knowing, but a fun bonus if you do!

I've finished! There was a little bit where my interest slowed down somewhat (view spoiler)[after chapter 24. I was devastated by Peter's sacrifice, but then I felt pretty certain that by the end there'd be some loophole to bring him back! I found having only Alice, without Peter to bounce off, was a bit slower. I didn't gel with Gradus or find his dynamic with Alice that interesting. I sort of felt like I was just waiting for her to find the loophole that brings Peter back, as she did! (hide spoiler)]

Overall I enjoyed this quite a bit. The pacing varied and there were some moments I was completely hooked, others where my mind wandered a bit, but I always wanted to get to the end and have the mysteries resolved. I liked Alice and Peter and almost wish we got even more of their backstories. I liked the addition of Peter's (view spoiler)[chronic illness (hide spoiler)] and thought it was done well.