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♡»» Are They/Them Pronouns Grammatically Correct to Use For One Person?
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
(last edited Oct 07, 2025 04:55PM)
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Also, what are everyone's opinions on neopronouns?
Hey, now I'll finally post!Appeal to Authority (Unqualified Authority)
“Credible educational sources use they/them… My math, ELA, and biology curriculum…”
The argument appeals to curriculums as ultimate authorities on grammar. But educational materials aren’t linguistic authorities — language authorities are major style guides (Chicago, APA, MLA, Oxford English Dictionary, etc.), not textbooks. Even those guides describe language usage, not dictate it universally. So citing “curriculums” is an appeal to authority that doesn’t directly prove the truth of the claim.
Equivocation Fallacy
“They/them can be used for one person… so it must also apply to chosen pronouns for gender identity.”
The argument shifts between two different meanings of singular they:
Traditional grammatical they for unknown gender (e.g., “Someone left their book”).
Modern identity-based they for known individuals who identify as nonbinary. These are not identical usages, and conflating them is a textbook equivocation — the same word used in different senses to imply the same rule applies.
Ad Hominem (Attacking the Source)
“Christian homeschool curriculums are NOT scientifically based and obviously biased.”
Instead of evaluating the grammatical argument, it discredits the source by labeling it “biased” and “not scientific. Whether a source is religious or not doesn’t automatically make its linguistic reasoning invalid. That’s an ad hominem — attacking who says something instead of what they say.
Appeal to Popularity (Ad Populum)
“Even my ELA curriculum explicitly says this… and secular curriculums say it’s correct.”
This assumes that because many curriculums or institutions say something, it must be true. But majority acceptance ≠ logical proof. Grammar shifts culturally, and correctness depends on convention, not vote count.
if a person picked something up for me, and i can’t see their face/ tell if they’re a guy or girl, i’d say ‘they picked it up.’ that’s seems logical, no?
Also, when has this EVER been used historically in the past?!?! It's never been in ANY grammar, school book, ANYTHING until twenty years ago, when it became "popular".
uh people use it in conversation? it’s kind of awkward to drop ‘he/she’ in the middle of a casual conversation, so many people just say they instead. lemme find some more stuff.
it’s been used many times in history and literature to refer to only one person. the likes of shakespeare and jane austen have used it in their books/ scripts, ofc, not in the context of non-binary/ gender neutral identities, since they weren’t widely accepted/ understood back then, but they were still used. https://las.illinois.edu/news/2020-01...
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Appeal to Authority (Unqualified Authority)
“Credible educational sources use they/them… My math, ELA, and biology curriculum…”
The argument appeals to curriculums as..."
Hello!
First, my question about the curriculums wasn't my main argument on this topic, it was just a question I had for whoever wanted to respond. But thanks for replying to that!
I wasn't using my curricula as a source, just pointing out that credible, secular, science-based textbooks supported this.
I'm not understanding your second point, I'm sorry.
A Christian curriculum supports a specific religion and religious group, and will have content targeted towards that specific community that will appeal to their beliefs. Any religiously-based curricula will have bias towards those religious beliefs and that community.
Fair.
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Actually, the first recorded use of they/them pronouns for a singular person was all the way back in 1375, and has been used throughout history since! Here's an Oxford Dictionary article about that: https://www.oed.com/discover/a-brief-...
Could you give a source for the claim that it's never been in "ANY" school curriculum or book since recently?
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Yes, it's regularly used in conversation, often without even realizing it.
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Yes!
siera ᯓ★ (nari’s vers.) (s.ia) wrote: "uh people use it in conversation? it’s kind of awkward to drop ‘he/she’ in the middle of a casual conversation, so many people just say they instead. lemme find some more stuff."Oh yeah, totally. That's perfectly fine. What I'm saying is that you just don't use that on yourself, because it's not grammatically correct. It hasn't been used until 20 years ago, and no other grammar, schools, or curriculm have used it until it became "popular"
Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "Hey, now I'll finally post!Appeal to Authority (Unqualified Authority)
“Credible educational sources use they/them… My math, ELA, and biology curriculum…”
The argument appeals t..."
Well then, they aren't credible, because that's not what the science books taught in the early two thousand!
Just because it's religious doesn't mean it's wrong. And actually, that's not true to say that only Christian curricula use that, because once again!... only been used for 20 years.
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Could you elaborate on/give a source for it being grammatically incorrect?
If it's correct to use it for a person whose gender you don't know, why is it not correct to use it for yourself (if you're nonbinary/genderqueer)?
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Appeal to Authority (Unqualified Authority)
“Credible educational sources use they/them… My math, ELA, and biology curriculum…”
T..."
Comparing it to past times doesn't make it less credible, times change, society changes and science and English advance. But okay, again I wasn't using it as a source it was just a prompt and is certainly not my main debate.
I didn't say it was wrong. I said it could contain bias. And once again, it has not only been used for 20 years.
Well, yeah, when you don't know if the person is a man or a woman, you say them, until you find out. That doesn't make the person a "them"The source you gave quotes, as its argument "Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
That's talking about multiple people right there.
And yes, people used it to conceal gender back then, but not as a way they identified! Much of this article is taken very much out of context.
It also literally says that a professor wrote that a singular they is unsupported by historical record.
the argument against using "they" as a singular pronoun primarily rests on traditional grammatical rules. according to the associated press stylebook, which is a widely-used guide in journalistic writing, singular "they" is still considered nontraditional, urging writers to use "he or she" for clarity when referencing individuals (associated press, 2019).moreover, the chicago manual of style acknowledges the evolving use of singular "they," but it highlights that using "he or she" remains a more grammatically sound choice for maintaining clarity in cases where the gender of the individual is known (chicago manual of style, 17th edition).
linguist and grammar expert, merriam-webster, states that while singular "they" is gaining acceptance, it traditionally applies to situations where gender is not specific. thus, when specific gender is known, "he or she" is still the grammatically accurate option (merriam-webster, 2020).
traditional grammar textbooks, like "grammar for english language teachers" by martin parrott, indicate that pronouns should agree in number with their antecedents. since "they" is inherently plural, using it for a single individual disrupts this agreement and can create confusion (parrott, 2010).
while the usage of singular "they" is becoming increasingly accepted in some contexts, traditional grammar rules advocate for "he or she" when referencing an individual, thus providing better clarity and adherence to grammatical standards.
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
(last edited Oct 07, 2025 06:20PM)
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The source you gave quotes, as its argument "Each man hur..."
"That doesn't make the person a 'them'" -
Why not though? What if they are a nonbinary person and using she/her or he/him pronouns makes them extremely uncomfortable and does not represent the person they are?
No, "each" in that context is referring to the each individual separately, if they were talking about all of them together it would have said "The men all hurried" or something.
I don't understand what you mean? Nonbinary people have always existed.
You asked for an article like something from Oxford Dictionary supporting my point, I gave it. Could you please give sources supporting your points?
maya ۶ৎ⋆. wrote: "the argument against using "they" as a singular pronoun primarily rests on traditional grammatical rules. according to the associated press stylebook, which is a widely-used guide in journalistic w..."Is it alright if you could share the sites you are getting this information?
Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "Well, yeah, when you don't know if the person is a man or a woman, you say them, until you find out. That doesn't make the person a "them"The source you gave quotes, as its argume..."
Well then, their lying to themselves because they can't change who they are sexually, and gender doesn't exist. It's the propaganda of the liberals telling them they aren't what they are, confusing them horribly. Someone doesn't NEED to be a girl when they're actually a boy.
And also, you've never addressed how this is such a new thing. It wasn't the 'norm' back then, and it shouldn't be now, because moral truths have stood through all of history as right. That is not a moral truth because it's suddenly popular now.
＊*•̩•̩̩*˚ M0onj3lly ˚*•̩̩•̩*˚＊ wrote: "maya ۶ৎ⋆. wrote: "the argument against using "they" as a singular pronoun primarily rests on traditional grammatical rules. according to the associated press stylebook, which is a widely-used guide..."sure! my sources cited here are mostly physical textbooks, but you can also find information on www.merriam-webster.com
textbook sources:
- Martin Parrott's Grammar for English Language Teachers (2010 Edition)
- The Chicago Manual of Style (CMOS) (17th Edition)
- Associated Press (AP) Stylebook (2019 or later editions)
hope this helps !!
✨Ruthie wrote: "Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "Well, yeah, when you don't know if the person is a man or a woman, you say them, until you find out. That doesn't make the person a "them"The source you gave ..."
What do you mean 'suddenly popular now', and also 'moral truth'?
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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The source you gave ..."
They are not lying to themselves, non-binary people exist. They are not trying to change their biology, and gender does exist, it is a matter of brain structure, social structure, and self-expression. It's not propaganda and it's not a strictly liberal thing, I know conservative or former conservative people who have discovered genderqueer identities.
Ruthie, please provide a source that it's just a new thing. Because it's not. It's become more socially accepted in the west in the past ~20 years but genderqueer identities have existed for thousands of years. PLEASE answer my other questions and provide sources, otherwise this is not a productive debate
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "Well, yeah, when you don't know if the person is a man or a woman, you say them, until you find out. That doesn't make the person a "them"The ..."
Agreed, there is no actual information being given.
Mod
Here are some sources that may benefit you to read, they explain what gender is!
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/cam...
https://www.who.int/health-topics/gen...
https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/48642.html
Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "Also please explain what you mean by moral truth. Those are contradictory, morals are personal and "truth" implies a solid unchanging fact, an opinion cannot in itself be a "truth"."yes !!! this !!
Mod
The source you gave ..."
Would you please cite and link unbiased sources that back up your claim of gender and they/them use being a modern language?
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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- Your claim that " It's never been in ANY grammar, school book, ANYTHING until twenty years ago"
- Your claim that nonbinary people do not exist and are lying to themselves
- Your claim that gender does not exist (what's your personal definition of gender, by the way?)
- Your claim that they/them pronouns and gender have only existed for the past 20 years
I'm not willing to continue this debate until you clarify and back up your claims.
Thanks!
Personally GENDER is just for grammar and a social construct, SEX is the biological term for a persons genitals and brain chemistry, and also a term humans created.(this is my own view!!!)
Why has it become more socially accepted?? Please give an example of how these identities have existed for thousands of years. Also, context matters.
This source doesn't really support the truth, but it shows how new it is.
https://escholarship.org/uc/item/0pp2...
What it does not show:
That they/them usage for known individuals is yet universal or old in every region or demographic.
That all style guides / educational materials have adopted it.
That there has been no opposition or error in usage (the study shows misgendering, disfluency, etc.).
the terms "gender" and "sex" often get mixed up, but they refer to different concepts. sex typically refers to the biological differences between males and females, including genitalia and genetic differences, while gender is more about the roles, behaviors, and identities that society associates with being male or female. according to the american psychological association, sex is defined as "the biological aspects of being male or female," and gender is "the roles, behaviors, and activities that a given society considers appropriate for men and women" (source: https://www.apa.org/topics/gender).genderqueer identities, which don't fit strictly into the binary of male or female, have existed for a long time in various cultures. however, it's only in recent years that society has started to recognize and normalize these identities. for example, historical records show that some indigenous cultures had specific gender roles outside the binary, like the two-spirit identity, which has been acknowledged for centuries (source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...). today, as more people learn about and understand these identities, the conversation around gender has expanded significantly, illustrating that the way we view gender is evolving.
it's important to respect people's identities and understand the distinction between gender and sex as society continues to change, and i say this as a conservative teen. i have nothing against transgender/nonbinary/etc. etc. people, and i will treat them as i would anyone else, but i will not be forced to address them with pronouns that do not fit their sex assigned at birth.
It is soooo uncommon to find it in historical works. It's not like it was used all the time. Which is my point: they/them is not a way to identify yourself, because it's not grammatically correct, hirtory has RARELY, EVER used it, and it's just popular rn.Others who "think" their they/them are simply very confused, because there's not a 'gender' to label yourself. Your sex is who you are: Male or Female. There is no in between.
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If you can’t find not one viable source that supports your claims, how do you still think it’s the truth?
but they’re not exactly forcing you, they’d just prefer it, and it’d make them more comfortable. it’s just respectful to refer to them as what they want to be called, isn’t it? even if it doesn’t align with you?
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Barnette ⋆˙⟡ *semi-hiatus for weekend*, Creator, Head Moderator
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Ruthie as a mod I’m going to say that you are being very disrespectful towards genderqueer people. We are not discussing that here and it is not okay to invalidate them, please stop.
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I posted proof that gender exists
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“but i will not be forced to address them with pronouns that do not fit their sex assigned at birth.”
Do you believe you shouldn’t have to call people by their preferred pronouns? Because they differ from your beliefs?
Do you believe that you personally have that right to disrespect someone in that way?
Not trying to come off aggressive, I’m genuinely asking why and if you think you have the right to do that.
siera ᯓ★ (nari’s vers.) (s.ia) wrote: "but they’re not exactly forcing you, they’d just prefer it, and it’d make them more comfortable. it’s just respectful to refer to them as what they want to be called, isn’t it? even if it doesn’t a..."i know what you mean, yeah. what i'm trying to say is if someone ever forces me i won't (if that person just prefers it, that's another thing and i don't really mind at all), and i'm quite stubborn with my beliefs and ideals (got my dad to thank for that) so i won't say something that i personally do not align with. i just like to mind my own business so i won't ever go out of my way to hurt someone's feelings if he or she identifies with they/them pronouns
Tessie wrote: "Ruthie as a mod I’m going to say that you are being very disrespectful towards genderqueer people. We are not discussing that here and it is not okay to invalidate them, please stop."^^^^^ this !!
✨Ruthie wrote: "It is soooo uncommon to find it in historical works. It's not like it was used all the time. Which is my point: they/them is not a way to identify yourself, because it's not grammatically correct, ..."I'm not gonna argue about the grammatical stuff, cuz I don't really care, BUT:
Science proves that gender is a spectrum and that gender diverse individuals exist You're objectively wrong here, friend.
Tessie wrote: "@Maya“but i will not be forced to address them with pronouns that do not fit their sex assigned at birth.”
Do you believe you shouldn’t have to call people by their preferred pronouns? Because th..."
of course, i understand! if using certain pronouns is considered disrespectful, i recognize that there may not be much i can do about that. however, i acknowledge that people who identify with those pronouns exist, even if i choose not to address them by those pronouns. i apologize if i come across as rude or disrespectful; that is not my intention!
Yes, I agree, I will not be forced to call someone something they are not. I do not believe that and moral truth does not permit me. As said, you may find sources that show proof they/them existed, but how many times is this mentioned? It wasn't common practice, it wasn't the norm, it's not common history. I will repeat myself again, This is only popular now since that last 20 years
You're being disrespectful towards my beliefs, and all of human history. That's not part of the debate. Please don't use your emotions to rule this. As a person with equal rights, I'm allowed to say what is needed in this debate, just as you are.
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“but i will not be forced to address them with pronouns that do not fit their sex assigned at birth.”
Do you believe you shouldn’t have to call people by their preferred prono..."
I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying I think is what’s happened, sorry 😭
Are you saying that if someone is disrespectful about using their pronouns or trying to force you to, you may not use them as almost a form of rebellion? Sorry I’m confused 😭😭
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As said, you may find sources that show proof they/them existe..."
If you think it’s okay to misgender people, I might call you sir. It’s my freedom of speech.
No Ruthie. I’m not saying your beliefs don’t exist, I’m saying you are being disrespectful by denying others EXISTENCE.
You have no right to deny their existence.
Yes you keep repeating yourself, but you give no proof, so no one believes you.
Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.) wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "It is soooo uncommon to find it in historical works. It's not like it was used all the time. Which is my point: they/them is not a way to identify yourself, because it's not grammat..."Please give me some completely unbiased sources for that.
Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.) wrote: "✨Ruthie wrote: "It is soooo uncommon to find it in historical works. It's not like it was used all the time. Which is my point: they/them is not a way to identify yourself, because it's not grammat..."Please give me some completely unbiased sources for that.
✨Ruthie wrote: "Yes, I agree, I will not be forced to call someone something they are not. I do not believe that and moral truth does not permit me. As said, you may find sources that show proof they/them existe..."
Me when I play the victim. I fear that no one here (Of my knowledge) has been disrespectful, but you.
How come it's only the Christian homeschooling curriculums that I've seen that say they/them pronouns are not correct for one person, and they use "he or she" every single time they don't know the person's gender? That's also grammatically correct but it's just so much simpler to say "they". And Christian homeschool curriculums (at least most of them) are NOT scientifically based and if it's a religious curriculum then it's obviously biased.
So why are scientific educational curriculums saying this is correct, and biased religious ones are saying it's not, and which is true?