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Sylvia's Lovers by Elizabeth Gaskell 1: chapters 1-14 (hosted by Claudia)
Like Peter, I liked the phrase "until people breathed more water than air". One of my favorite things about reading is when a passage or phrase makes me stop reading for the beauty or cleverness of it and I re-read it a few times to appreciate it. Writers amaze me.The passage about Daniel essentially bossing his wife around made me chuckle. It made me think of my father-in-law, who, in his own mind, is an expert on everything. He likes to comment on tasks others are doing. He means well, though, and I love him all the same.
Peter, I loved your analogy of Philip representing the dull grey cloak and Kinraid the red.
i enjoyed the picture of Daniel as the fish out of water in the domestic environment of his own house and the way Gaskell wrote to solve this problem for everyone else involved in the situation. She knows people and she's a clever writer. While I also found that the use of dialect slowed down my reading a bit, I do think it adds to the authentic feeling of the people, their situation, and the book itself. And I think it's slowly getting easier to understand.
Indeed there were a few clever passages here, and this shows how well Mrs Gaskell knows people!Let's move on to the next chapter!
Chapter 6 – The Sailor’s funeralSylvia leaves her parents and Mr Donkin and hurries to Molly Corney's to find out more about the events on the Good Fortune and Kinraid's condition.
Moss Brow is not far from Haytersbank. The farm and the family are a perfect contrast to the tidiness and cleanliness of Robson's farm. The Corneys have ten children, which also means more cattle and flocks to breed for their sustenance but consequently less time to attend to the details. It all seems chaotic, but Mrs Corney is more welcoming than Bell Robson. She is also more talkative and less formal than Bell.
Sylvia finds Molly in the orchard - where many apples lie unpicked. She enquires about Charley Kinraid's welfare and the likelihood of his recovery. Her questions and her blushing arouse Molly's suspicions, so she turns the conversation to her red cloak. Both speculate about the possibility of finding some design ideas in the town, where many people will be gathering for the sailor's funeral. Sylvia is looking forward to next Sunday.
On Sunday, everyone goes up the 190 steps to St Nicholas, the church near the abbey. The church tower is a landmark for seafarers and climbing the steps is a real pilgrimage. The vicar is uneasy and has mixed feelings about the death of young Darley, a sailor returning home after a long campaign in the hostile Arctic, shot by press-gangs during the violent action with the recruiting agents. Darley is the son of the vicar's gardener, which adds to the difficulties. In addition, the captain of HMS Aurora has written to the vicar, who now feels trapped between the laws of God and the laws of war. Dr Wilson has a dim view of enemies, be they Dissenters or French. In any case, his sermon fails to convey empathy and comfort to the bereaved, but the prayers, litanies and traditional rituals do provide some solace.
Molly and Sylvia, who cries over the poor sailor’s death, meet Charley Kinraid, convalescing and visibly exhausted, being brought in by two friends to attend his comrade's funeral. The two girls go up to greet Charley and exchange a few words with him. While Sylvia is talking to him, visibly impressed by him - even white and tired, he is a handsome young man -. Philip joins them, obviously a little upset by his cousin's dialogue with Charley Kinraid. Is Sylvia experiencing the first thrill of love?
The chapter ends on a slight, nevertheless obvious note of Philip’s jealousy.
A very rich chapterMany pictures or scenes stand out in this very dense chapter: Moss Brow so different from Haytersbank, "the dying daylight [becoming] more and more crimson through the blackening trees". (what a beautiful autumn sunset description, may perhaps be symbolically interpreted), the steps uphill to the church, black ribbons of crape, a thick crowd gathering in silence, then the heartbreakingly rising wailings behind Sylvia during young Darley's burial, the bereaved parents' emotions soothed by "This is the Lord's doing..." Sylvia's first encounter with Charley Kinraid the hero, Philip's protective (or jealous?) omnipresence at her side.
I selected just one particularly striking passage, which may sound ominous but also relatable (we may have experienced this in our real lives), when Sylvia is back from Moss Brow:
"...Sylvia had noted the watching not three minutes before, and many a time in her after life, when no one cared much for her out-goings and in-comings, the straight, upright figure of her mother, fronting the setting sun, but searching through its blinding rays for a sight of her child, rose up like a sudden-seen picture, the remembrance of which smote Sylvia to the heart with a sense of a lost blessing, not duly valued while possessed."
Charley Kinraid a hero in flesh and bloodUntil now, we knew Charley Kinraid only from hearsay. Now Sylvia is meeting him for the first time, so do we.
Charley brings together the main ingredients that make him a hero.
He is a sailor in far away seas, countries known only vicariously to most inhabitants of Monkshaven and its rural communities.
He is a chief harpooner on whaling ships in a hostile environment, facing dangers (icebergs, whales). He is in the foreground, daring, skilled, courageous, but also rewarded in terms of salary.
He is absent from his home most of the time, as whaling campaigns are long. Besides, has he a home, or are the vast oceans his true home?
He is popular among his ship comrades, praised even by sailors who do not directly know him. He is much esteemed by his captain, but also eagerly waited for and adulated by his relatives.
He is handsome, tall, a complexion tanned by the sea breeze, has a deep gaze, dark eyes and bright white teeth. He seems to socialize easily.
In the recent action onboard the Good Fortune, he very nearly faced death but, although still weak and pale, which is added value in his role as a wounded hero, has good hope of recovery. The future is open for him.
Whitby’s 199 stepsThe Whitby 199 steps (also known as The Church Stairs and Jacob's Ladder), is a stone structure between the Old Town and St Mary’s Church. The 199 (190 at the end of the 18th century) steps have been recorded since at least 1370, and until the 1770s, were made of wood. The flight of steps was viewed as a measure of the Christian determination of pilgrims up to Whitby Abbey (and later, the church), and have also served as a tourist attraction. They are also mentioned in Dracula, by Bram Stoker.
In Europe, there are several instances of many steps leading to a church or a sanctuary on a hill, to which pilgrims converge. It is biblical (Psalm 121:1-4), spiritual or traditional (Catholic ): such churches you have to climb to are dedicated to St. Mary, e.g.in Whitby, in Le Puy en Velay and Our Lady of Rocamadour, France, or some others in Southern Germany and Austria.
Faith, traditions, ritualsAlone the climbing up the 190 stairs to the church and graveyard has a highly symbolic significance. A large crowd of inhabitants is joining: seamen, ship crews, farmers, shopkeepers, employees but also shipowners and town gentlefolks. A panoramic view from the steps shows the ships in the harbour bearing their flags on half-mast, while there is no white sail to be seen far away on the wide sea horizon.
Even Sylvia, while walking up the church stairs, is now beyond her red cloak project, and finds Molly's chatting futile.
Silence is reigning as words are powerless in front of the bereavement of parents and siblings after Darley's violent death.
Even the vicar's sermon, even in his own opinion - how to preach before parents who have lost their first-born son?- fails to deliver a message of comfort, but the rituals, psalms and litanies do. They all come from times immemorial and connect those present, even unconsciously, to the preceding generations and to God. Mr Darley is unspeakably soothed by a verse from Psalm 118: "This is the Lord's doing. It is marvellous in our eyes." (Psalm 118:23.
Indeed the church on the high cliff is a beacon in the evening light right now, as it has been for centuries, and the church and the stairs have been a landscape mark for the sailors through thick and thin. The very stones of the church and the the headstones in the churchyard resonate with prayers and litanies, silent sorrows and quiet moments of meditation before the headstones erected for those who never came back from fishing or whaling campaigns - wonderfully evoked by Elizabeth Gaskell - and thanksgiving hymns sung by community after tempests and rough times. These are words and lyrics and tunes even the less educated people have made their own especially in seamen communities, most attached to traditions, and to them it all makes sense. (I am writing from experience in Brittany in seaside communities, where a model ship hangs in every church).
All these litanies, psalms and prayers are a symbol of the everlasting repetition of human experience, a flowing and ebbing tide.
The dynamics of this dense chapter take us to Moss Brow and back, then uphill to the churchyard where Sylvia is very emotional and meeting Kinraid for the first time under Philip's jealous eyes. Do not hesitate to post your thoughts on these powerful pages until Monday 14 April, Chapter 7!
This is I think one of the most interesting chapters I have read by Gaskell, or anyone, really. I think the author aspires to give us a sense of yhe metaphysical, to produce in us an awe or reverence and I think she succeeded with me. I would feel guilty trying to break the chapter down on only one short read and instead prefer to admire the writing and to try and hold the feeling I experienced reading it. I am curious what feelings you all felt in while reading. This sense of awe I mention is an appreciation for the artfulness of the writing combined with feelings nurtured by what is being written which started with the description of the orchard and Sylvia and Molly's meeting, on through the steps, the service, to the actual burial, the appearance of Kincaid, and Gaskell's building and cycling of ideas and emotions throughout which produced a sense of cartharsis as poignant as in any tragedy, puctuated by the line that begins, " And now all was over; the rattle of the gravel on the coffin;..."
Claudia wrote: "Faith, traditions, ritualsAlone the climbing up the 190 stairs to the church and graveyard has a highly symbolic significance. A large crowd of inhabitants is joining: seamen, ship crews, farmers..."
Yes. This was indeed a dense chapter. We are beginning to see how Gaskell is crafting her story. Kinraid is a man of action, a man of the outdoors, a man who lives his phrase ‘honour bright.’ Even though he is still very weak, he attends the funeral of a shipmate. His mere presence speaks of strength, power, and honour.
Gaskell’s description of the setting in the church, the service, and then the burial ceremony feels authentic to me. No doubt this is partially due to her own Unitarian faith and the fact her husband was a Unitarian minister. Just imagine how often she was a part of a burial service and internment.
Gaskell’s style in this chapter has a feeling of her quiet confidence. The conflict between humankind’s law and Christ’s law play out very effectively in this chapter.
And a confession … I had totally forgot about Ophelia’s speech in ‘Hamlet’ where she mentions the rosemary sprigs. Ah yes, the rosemary plant is an emblem of eternity.
And as for Philip. As noted he has the last sentence of the chapter to himself. He kept ‘close by [Sylvia's] side. A conflict appears to be brewing.
Sam wrote: I think the author aspires to give us a sense of the metaphysical, to produce in us an awe or reverence and I think she succeeded with me. I would feel guilty trying to break the chapter down on only one short read and instead prefer to admire the writing and to try and hold the feeling I experienced reading it.Yes she succeeded with me too! You described very well your feelings while reading this chapter. I appreciate this chapter even more on my third read. This chapter is just perfect!
Great points, thanks Peter!I did not know about rosemary as an emblem of eternity.
Thanks for mentioning the notion of honour - very much valued in the Royal Navy and in other navies, and also in the merchant navy. It is another world with its rules and codes, traditions and also superstitions. Former politician and writer Philippe de Villiers always speaks of panache, talking about Charette who was first a Navy officer and then a Vendée leader! Let's see if Kinraid (red) corresponds to that.
As said already, this chapter was a delight. It's becoming quite the abundance of misunderstandings about relationships:
Sylvia thinks Molly is in love with Charley
Molly thinks Sylvia is in love with Philip
Philip thinks Sylvia is in love with Charley
Charley thinks Sylvia is in love with Darley
There's a possible scenario of Sylvia being in love with someone on the ship. She seemed anxious about something that day. However, I'm not sure whether to think it was for a "someone" or just the excitement of a ship coming into port.
And all because of cover-up explanations to avoid a truth or the interpretation of looks that appear to be one thing when they are another.
Peter, I hadn't heard of the significance of rosemary at a funeral. I was going to look it up but you've explained it. Thank you.
This chapter is full of misunderstandings or possible misinterpretaions, isn't it. Petra, Thanks for enumerating all of the potential couplings we have so far! It's going to be interesting to see this play out.I was also struck by the Vicar's internal struggle over how to present the funeral service-caught between crown and town. Would he have been observed at such a local level during a funeral? Were the politics of the time so fraught that this death might potentially lead to problems if the wrong words were said. I can't imagine a Vicar not offering the right sentiments to the family of the dead man.
All of your reflections are wonderful! You've all added much to my read of this chapter. I feel that I don't have much to add to the conversation, except that this has been my favorite chapter so far. We got another hint of humor when Donkin sarcastically explained to Sylvia that he and Daniel "settled many puzzles" and goes on to say that "it's been a loss to Government as they hannot been here for profiting by our wisdom. We've done away wi' taxes and press-gangs, and many a plague, and beaten t' French..." Just put them in charge, right?I was moved by the vicar, the procession up the stairs, the idea of Charlie attending the funeral as wounded and sick as he was, and the description of the day, with the older folk and their "pensive, dreamy eyes" that were "weaning themselves away from the earth , which probably many may never see dressed in her summer glory again" and that it seemed to "be a time for gathering up human forces to encounter the coming severity, as well as a storing up the produce of harvest for the needs of winter."
Petra: Great analysis of misunderstandings as they appear to be up to now.Sue: The captain of the Aurora had written to the vicar who was "the oldest magistrate" in town an "explanatory and exculpatory letter" about Darley's death. He had "resisted the orders of an officer in his Majesty's service", the captain wrote. In wartime every opinion is closely watched, so that I guess it makes the writing of a sermon even more difficult, and no wonder if the minister ended up concocting a standard preaching, carefully avoiding the shadow of an accusation against authorities.
Mod
Initially built in 1520, The Prospect of Whitby still stands today on the River Thames in Wapping - London! The pub had a notorious past and was known as 'the Devil's Tavern' through its association with thieves and smugglers. Its name was changed to 'The Prospect of Whitby' in 1777.
Since London is at the other end of the country from Whitby, it gives us an idea of how Whitby was viewed by others in previous centuries.
Interesting to see how and why Whitby was (also) famous! Thank you very much, Jean!
I'm a tic late but will get reading! Looks great!
Welcome Yasmine!Now moving on to the following chapter...
Chapter 7 – Tête à tête – The WillThis chapter, as the title suggests, consists of two parts.
First, Philip intends to walk Sylvia back to Haytersbank and visit his aunt and uncle as usual on Sundays, and drop Molly Corney off at the crossroads to Moss Brow.
Sylvia is still affected by her encounter with Charley Kinraid and expresses her concern for him. Philip seems unable to hide a touch of jealousy. He even bites hard when he hints at some gossip he has heard in town about Charley. During the action aboard the Good Fortune, Kinraid is said to have shot and killed press gang agents and could be arrested if the press gang learn that he is still alive. Philip is uneasy about the matter of forceful recruitment and the sailors’ resistance as he is evolving in a Quaker environment. However, the press gangs are staying away from Monkshaven for the time being, as the Navy is aware that the people of the small town are on edge.
Molly is clearly upset by Philip's words about her cousin. She does not like Philip Hepburn very much.
Meanwhile, Hester Rose joins them. She was sitting with Darley's sister, who is bed-ridden and unable to attend her brother's funeral. She is now on her way home to the lower part of Monkshaven. Philip confirms that she and her mother are Quakers, as well as William Coulson, his colleague. Molly, who is fond of gossip, wonders if William is in love with Hester, and makes a joke on Sylvia’s red cloak becoming inappropriate if she becomes a Quaker herself.
Still, Sylvia is more thoughtful than before: she has come to the funeral to spot modeling suggestions for her red cloak but has been caught up in almost eschatological meditations on life and death and the necessity of changing her behaviour right away. She was also impressed by Hester's kindness to Darley's sister.
Having left Molly at the crossroads to her parents' farm, Philip and Sylvia, now engaged in “a tête à tête walk”, discuss Philip's plan to teach Sylvia to read and write. Sylvia does not see the need for this and is even annoyed. She tries to find several pretexts not to accept Philip’s plan and suggests that he could teach Molly's little sister instead, who needs some basic reading and spelling. Philip insists that his Aunt Bell has asked him to teach Sylvia. Sylvia finds another objection: reading and writing in the dark winter evenings require candlelight, and her mother objects to her extravagant use of candles. Philip would then bring his own candles so as not to waste Bell's. Sylvia would much rather be learning geography – finding the Arctic and Groenland on a map, so that Philip put this forward as a decisive argument. Admitting that she must be nice, Sylvia puts her hand in Philip’s but cannot take it away as he holds it tightly.
When they arrive at the farmhouse, they find Bell alone, reading her Bible chapter until the daylight runs out. Although she does not show her satisfaction at seeing her daughter walking hand in hand with her nephew, she is secretly pleased and hopeful.
At the same time, Hester Rose arrives home in the centre of Monkshaven.
Her mother, Alice Rose, has dictated her will to William Coulson, the other clerk in Foster's shop and a tenant in the same house as Philip Hepburn. We learn about Alice's few possessions and her testamentary dispositions, but we also see how she keeps her home clean and tidy. We learn that she is a cousin of John and Jeremiah Foster. She does not want to alarm her daughter, and the writing of the will is left unfinished when Hester arrives. She would very much like Hester to marry William, whom she seems to trust very much. William is indeed secretly in love with Hester, is “favoured by Alice Rose, though not by her daughter”.
The funeral of young Darley is much commented. Alice, returning from the Sunday meeting, happened to see Charley Kinraid and has her own impression of him. Charley is already known to William Coulson. Indeed, his sister, now deceased, had an affair (platonically, I suppose) with the harpooner – known as the best specksioneer of the whole coastal area - in Newcastle.
Unfortunately, Charley met another young girl and left William's sister, who eventually fell sick and died of grief.
The three have their tea, after having silently said graces, in absence of Philip who returns after 9 pm, the curfew time imposed by Alice.
Charley Kinraid behind the façade We are now confronted with some doubts on Charley Kinraid, which gradually cast a shadow of suspicion on him.
Philip, whose judgement may be biased, tells Sylvia and Molly that Charley must “make himself scarce” now, as he is said to have killed press-gang agents during the recent action. He has not been arrested as he was “kicked aside and left for dead”.
Mrs Alice Rose is even more judgmental on Kinraid. She has seen him “yon sailor as, they said, used violence and murder”, and issues a moralizing and definitive judgment “He has had a warning fra’ the Lord”. Do not we forget that early Quakerism was more influenced by Puritanism. Moreover a kind of Pharisaism may be seen in Alice’s own Weltanschauung and words. Still, she – as does Hester - does not assert with certainty that Kinraid killed someone, as the phrase “They said” comes up repeatedly.
William Coulson is more specific. His sister back in Newcastle had indeed a relationship with Charley but was left by the handsome sailor who preferred another girl. This broke her heart, and she died. William, who had kept quiet so far, is now “roused to energetic curiosity” and has no doubt “he shot down yon sailors” and will be punished for this and William’s sister’s fate in the other world. William insists twice “he is a bad man yon”.
Hester opposes a more cautious, neutral, even positive, view on Kinraid. She does not seem to condemn before knowing the whole situation. She mentions that ailing Betsy Darley told her that her brother met with Kinraid in Newcastle, and that Charley was "such a friend to her brother as never was" and "sent her word" that he would visit her as soon as he feels better.
Sylvia’s judgement is mixed with the sudden emergence of amourous desire with an underlying and unconscious transgressive fascination for the hero. Still she harbours “a multitude of tangled thoughts” and “a wonder if the specksioneer had really killed a man, an idea which made her shudder; yet in the awful fascination about it, her imagination was compelled to dwell on the tall, gaunt figure…”while “wonders and fancies were whirling about in Sylvia’s brain…”
A well-constructed chapterIndeed, we are not only seeing two parts, symmetrical not in length but in construction, featuring two different actions, but we are also introduced to two very different worlds: a rural background and a microcosm of Friends.
Philip Hepburn belongs to both worlds: he is Bell’s nephew and Sylvia’s cousin and undeclared suitor, but also a tenant at Mrs Rose’s and secretly favoured by Hester. He may be most probably described as a “Seeker”, who is investigating the Quaker way. He enjoys reading Alice’s book of sermons – we may infer these are George Fox’s preachings or some other early Quakers’ sermons. Philip has adopted much of the Friends’ simplicity, equality of tone and prudence, but he is caught between two different Weltanschauungen especially in the current wartimes. He advocates respect of laws, even of the necessity of impressment, necessary to the well-being and protection of society against the enemy. Yet the Quaker way advocates non-violence and opposition to wars.
Both worlds here have their narrowness and modest economy in common. Many domestic details and descriptions of the environment confirm this, and much textual evidence is available. Silence, things left unsaid, usances and deep-rooted habits are their common frame – either in Alice’s dwelling, where work and prayer or pious readings, or in Haytersbank where agriculture and seasons inexorably govern all.
Sylvia, whose red cloak, not yet sewn, is repeatedly mentioned, may be a free electron against these narrow backgrounds. She aspires to a wider horizon, as her imagination is now fired by Kinraid’s heroics. Yet, as a woman in the Georgian era, she may access far away adventures only vicariously.
We also noticed that Hester appears shortly in the first part of the chapter and arrived home in the second part. (Cleverly done in terms of narrative). She seems to be affectionately interested in Philip, and blushes easily whenever he addresses her. According to general gossiping (embodied by Molly), which proves true in the second part of the chapter, William Coulson loves Hester, but his love is most probably unrequited. Hester's discreet figure runs like a barely noticeable scarlet thread throughout the whole chapter.
On Women’s educationIn this chapter, we are seeing some instances of illiteracy, or poor literacy, in rural classes: Sylvia cannot read nor write, Alice Rose needs help to write her will, but can read her Bible, while Mrs Robson has a certain command of reading, yet she was reading aloud to herself from her Bible. Philip Hepburn and William Coulson, both employees, prove to be the only ones educated among the lower-class characters we have met so far.
A blog article below may allow us to take stock of the state of education in the 18th century in all of Europe. Indeed, girls in rural families had no access to schools. Yet religious orders or societies were the first to provide them with a holistic education in convents. It was more about being “accomplished” than scholarly educated.
Mary Wollstonecraft’s A Vindication of the Rights of Woman (1792) eloquently argued for the need to provide women with a decent education and even advocated co-education:
“If marriage be the cement of society, mankind should all be educated after the same model, or the intercourse of the sexes will never deserve the name of fellowship, nor will women ever fulfil the peculiar duties of their sex, till they become enlightened citizens, till they become free by being enable to earn their own subsistence, independent of men.”
https://worldhistory.biz/modern-histo...
Another dense chapter! We are gradually getting acquainted with two possible lovers of Sylvia's, an existing one and a new one. We are also getting a glimpse into unrequited love stories in the background.Up to you all!
Chapter 8 to be read and discussed on Tuesday 15 April
Claudia wrote: "A well-constructed chapterIndeed, we are not only seeing two parts, symmetrical not in length but in construction, featuring two different actions, but we are also introduced to two very differen..."
Yes. Through the first chapters there has been a lingering feel of a place that is both isolated and very closeted. Religion, rural manners, traditions and beliefs, the feel of a place set apart from the rest of the world. This chapter nudges these impressions towards the reader. There is some irony that as some of the townsmen go to an unworldly place like Greenland the town itself has the feel of being unworldly.
As for Sylvia, well, Kinraid has now created a bit of a dilemma. Philip is the representative of the solid base of the town, at least on the surface, while Kinraid may be a swashbuckling hero, but is he also a murderer?
I’m puzzling over why Gaskell has made Sylvia illiterate. No doubt in those times many females would be illiterate but why mention it?
Peter wrote I’m puzzling over why Gaskell has made Sylvia illiterate. No doubt in those times many females would be illiterate but why mention it?Perhaps she wanted to create a pretext for Philip to show up regularly, not only on Sundays, and hometeach Sylvia and perhaps act as a Pygmalion.
I also suppose that Mrs Gaskell as a Unitarian minister's wife and Unitarian herself was concerned with social care and educational tasks.
She was very active in Manchester in such programs and participated in many teaching actions with her daughter Meta during the Cotton Famine when the looms stood still during the American Civil War.
This was another rich chapter and we see Sylvia’s curiosity for asking questions. She doesn’t seem to be shy about it - here she’s questioning Hester about the relations of the dead soldier and Hester seems a bit shy at first. Sylvia’s introspection about the Friends and death while at the funeral showed that she has a side to her that might or could be unselfish. But for now she is still thinking of self.I’ve noticed that Sylvia obviously is in love with Charley Kinraid and dislikes Phillip. On a similar note, Willam Coulson is in love with Hester who appears to have a liking for Phillip. I wonder how these will turn out?
Great point Lori on Sylvia's curiosity and attitude at the funeral.Unlike Hester, who is "carrying one another's burdens"(I have just come across Galatians 6:2), and seeing "that of God" in everyone, including perhaps in Kinraid, Sylvia is indeed self-centred. Darley's burial and Kinraid's first appearance have shaken her little tidy and organised world.
Hester is an interesting character I did not quite notice on my first read!
I see Hester and Sylvia as contrasts to one another. They are of a similar age and circumstance, they are only daughters in homes with no sons, both have suitors they would rather not have, and both have a hankering for a man who either is oblivious to them or doesn't know them at all, and sadly both mothers favor the unwanted suitor. How each of them handles this, and the final outcome, will be interesting.Hester, I think, is a more serious and practical woman, while Sylvia is a little spoiled and flighty. Hester works for her living and Sylvia is indulged by her parents and will be 100% dependent upon getting a husband. I think Sylvia has good impulses---she would like to be a good girl, but can she be, while Hester seems to be good in and of herself? I keep thinking of Tess of the d'urbervilles. In fact, this has a flavor of Hardy to me, even in the descriptive passages, even though Gaskell's writing seldom echoes his for me.
Thanks to Claudia and everyone else, who are adding depth to my reading and understanding. You are seeing things and connections long before I do!
Thank you Sara "I think Sylvia has good impulses---she would like to be a good girl, but can she be, while Hester seems to be good in and of herself?" Yes, Hester seems to have an instinct to being helpful and kind.Great parallels and perfect analysis of the common points and differences between the two girls. Indeed Hester is working for her living while Sylvia is, in a way, spoilt. However she participates actively in the common work in the farm, where nobody is idle (it cannot work otherwise).
Chapter 8 – Attraction and RepulsionThis chapter takes place two weeks after the sailor’s funeral.
The narrator gives us some interesting facts about life in the countryside and on the isolated farms around Monkshaven. The weather is now much colder, and farmers are experiencing seasonal difficulties in feeding their herd and flock. As a result, cows presently not expecting calves are slaughtered and horses are left underfed and too weak to pull carts in bad weather. There are many tasks to be completed before the harshness of winter sets in. Traditionally, pigs are killed at the second frost, as the ice does not melt too quickly and allows the meat to keep for some time.
So the Robsons slaughtered their pig and Mrs Robson made preserves and sausages. Traditionally too, and because they do not keep for long, the sausages are shared with the neighbours. Mrs Robson suggests taking sausages (prepared after a 500 year old traditional Cumberland recipe) to the Corney’s and sharing them with their convalescing relative, Charley Kinraid, who is staying with them.
Sylvia is on her toes when she hears this, and secretly hopes that Daniel takes her along to Moss Brow. She wants to cover the sausages in a basket with a napkin from her mother’s drawers, but Bell insists that an ordinary clean cloth will do. Yet she secretively picks up some late blooming flowers and puts them between the folds of the napkin.
When Daniel Robson suggests she goes with him, so that she can chat with Molly, Sylvia is overjoyed. The young girl is now wearing her red cloak and looks like Little Red Riding Hood carrying her basket. She walks silently, as her father is not talkative, which suits her well right now, so that she can quietly and daydreamingly await her meeting with Charley. When they are meeting, not many words are spoken, but Sylvia is clearly smitten with the young man who greets her kindly. He is feeling much better and ready to confront press-gangs again. He is intended to go and visit his family near Newcastle.
Daniel Robson is delighted with his brief conversation with Kinraid. He invites him to visit at Haytersbank so they can talk about Kinraid’s voyages and Daniel’s memories of his own whaling experiences.
When Mr Robson and his daughter return home, they are greeted by a silently angry Bell, who tells them that Philip has just been here to Sylvia’s first lesson and has therefore come all the way for nothing. Philip is expected back the following day. Sylvia hopes that Kinraid will not be visiting then, as she does not want to be seen learning to read and write in his presence, which she feels would degrade her.
Philip Hepburn turns up as expected, but Charley does not visit that day. Sylvia is relieved but at the same time annoyed by Philip’s presence and bored by his lessons. He seems to be doing his best. Mrs Robson urges her daughter to be more cooperative. Nevertheless, Sylvia’s bad temper is obvious, as are her mood swings when the lesson is over. When Philip reads some newspaper articles to his uncle, Sylvia falls asleep. This leads to an awkward situation when Daniel jokingly recounts his experience years earlier of a young man kissing a girl who had fallen asleep involuntarily.
LiteracyAccording to some sources, the literacy rate had increased during the 18th century. Many philosophers were concerned with the education of boys and girls: John Locke, Mary Wollstonecraft and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, to name but a few.
Literacy was measured by people's ability to sign their name or just their initials, but in the 18th century it was defined by their ability to read and understand newspapers, the Bible or a printed book. Some estimates suggested that 60% of the male population could read, while only 40% of women could read fluently. These rates varied greatly according to social class and urban or rural area. Boys were gradually sent to boarding schools, while girls were still taught at home, or not at all. In urban areas, merchants and drapers were among those who could read books.
We meet some interesting examples of different levels of literacy: Philip and William can read their Bible and sermon books and write for work. William is hired by Alice because he can write reasonably well.
The different protagonists' attitudes to literacy are also interesting. Bell has "a great respect for learning, which she never acquired" and which she wants her daughter to acquire. She wants her daughter to succeed and to erase her own frustrations. We also learn that Bell's grandmother and mother were more educated than she was, while her own father did not consider it necessary for her to learn to read and write, hence her incomplete literacy. Sylvia seems, at least for the moment, to be completely disinterested in learning. Learning would also mean giving up her free and wild nature and becoming someone else, more artificial, as is Philip when he reads aloud. She does not want Kinraid to see her learning - and making mistakes. She feels it might make her look inferior, but I guess she also lacks motivation because of her aversion for Philip. She would perhaps learn more efficiently if Kinraid were her teacher.
Daniel Robson has a peculiar attitude to reading. He has no desire to learn more and is content to rely on someone else to read for him. He is interested in the newspaper’s accounts of “the war then raging”. Of the characters we now know, he has the highest level of dialect phrases and pronunciations. In short, he seems to be sticking to his own ways and oral culture. We also see that Philip's lessons are scheduled for early autumn/winter evenings when Foster's shop is closed and Philip is available earlier, while there is less outdoor farm work to be done at Haytersbank. We understand nevertheless that Philip’s hometeaching is also a pretext to be near Sylvia.
AbednegoPhilip’s choice of an example word beginning with “A” may seem to be abstract to us. But it must be understood in the context of Philip's biblical background and in the context of the 18th century. Protestant countries in Europe were generally more literate than Catholic areas because Protestant populations read the Bible at home. It was often the only book they owned and read regularly. Apart from Philip being a “Seeker” among Quakers, he supposes that Sylvia will be able to read her Bible as Mrs Robson, his aunt, does.
Abednego is a Jewish young man in exile in Babylon in the Book of Daniel. It means "servant of Nebo" in Akkadian, Nebo being the Babylonian god of wisdom. Abednego is the Babylonian name given to Azariah, cast into a blazing furnace with his two companions Shadrach and Meshach, but saved from harm by God, as told in the Book of Daniel.
A pastoral chapter in two parts. The first one sounds like a fairly tale with Little Red Riding Hood. Who is the wolf? I noticed that most of the plot up to now is set in a late afternoon light and in evening, even nightly atmosphere. The "long monotonous roll of the distant waves", myriads of stars, northern lights, the sea ditty hummed a little out of tune by Daniel...Thank you for your comments above - very helpful to all! And also for your future comments.
We will read and comment Chapter 9 on Thursday 17 April!
I was also taken by the Little Red Riding Hood analogy and wondered which of these young men (or someone yet to come) might be the wolf. The scarlet cloak carries a hint of wantonness, while the image of Little Red Riding Hood is one of innocence. Sylvia is preening before these young men, which can be dangerous in the end.
Sara wrote: "I was also taken by the Little Red Riding Hood analogy and wondered which of these young men (or someone yet to come) might be the wolf. The scarlet cloak carries a hint of wantonness, while the im..."I agree with you, Sara! Still the "function" of Little Red Riding Hood also reveals a passage from innocence to adulthood, in terms of sexuality. Mrs Gaskell was most probably conscious of this, but being a decent lady in the Victorian era, she could not say it bluntly. She used some images in her novels as in North and South, some metaphors and allusions in Ruth and even here.
Indeed, the floodgates of interpretation (as Peter wrote) burst open, but Bruno Bettelheim corroborates this in his book The Uses of Enchantment: The Meaning and Importance of Fairy Tales, saying that the red colour is linked to sexuality and passion... Let's see what is coming then.
In Ruth (have you read it?) I can clearly see a wolf!
Sylvia's defiance toward Philip and inadvertently toward learning is a bit frustrating. It’s also sad that her mother was not able to be educated having a mother and grandmother who were. They must have been greatly saddened by this decision made by Mrs. Robson’s father. Thank you, Claudia for clarifying the differing attitudes towards illiteracy at this time. Education is certainly something we take for granted today.As has been mentioned already, I’m very curious to know what backstory prevents Sylvia’s kindness toward Phillip? Phillip must also be wowed by Sylvia’s beauty to put up with the way she treats him. Wasn’t it interesting that he didn’t cover up the reason he brought candles to Mrs. Robson? He told her the truth about Sylvia’s trying to get out of her lessons.
An interesting chapter and like the many other comments the reference to little red riding hood really jumped off the page at me. Surely it must mean, suggest or foreshadow something. I need to ponder on this some more.I found it very interesting how Gaskell constructed the plot line in this chapter. As winter makes its way to the town, and the harvest, the livestock, the homes and the people all begin to prepare for the coming of winter and more darkness Sylvia heats up the proceedings in her life as well as her family and Philip. Candles seem to play a role in the coming of winter’s darkness, and Sylvia’s defiance of learning to read might suggest something as well. Will she be unable to learn to read, or also be unable to ‘read’ peoples’ hearts motivations and intentions?
Sylvia’s defiance of learning to read might suggest something as well. Will she be unable to learn to read, or also be unable to ‘read’ peoples’ hearts motivations and intentions?Excellent question, Peter!
Claudia - I have read Ruth and Gaskell can definitely paint a wolf!Lori - Phillip isn't very savvy, is he? If he wants Sylvia to warm to him, he needs to be a little more aware of how he treats her. I shook my head at the candle blunder.
Peter - I also love that question!
I just want to say how much I'm enjoying this novel, Claudia's summaries and extra information, and everyone's comments. It took me a little while to get into Gaskell's style, but I am really appreciating her slow development of place and people. Only eight chapters in, and I feel that I have a good understanding of each of the main characters. I look forward to further character development of Sylvia's "lovers".
Nice to see you again Shirley and earlier Kathleen! I am happy to know that you enjoy this novel and the group comments. Indeed the first volume seems to be developing slowly - it was also my feeling when I read the novel for the first time.
Yes Shirley, after a few chapters we feel as if we were there, observing the main characters in their background (farm, shop, small port city) and the intricacies of their lives and feelings, some failing communication between them (we experienced this in Mary Barton too, against a rough historical background where danger is lurking.
I really enjoyed these last two chapters. As already mentioned, the reference to Red Riding Hood is intriguing. There's some sort of danger ahead for Sylvia, it would seem.
Claudia, thank you for the extra information you provide each reading day. Wonderul information.
I’m a little stunned at how obvious Glaskell is in her dislike of, shall we say, the peasants. She makes direct reference to the “lower class”, or “lad of this class” and the “poorer class”, in a very negative, superior, way.
Claudia.....I posted the last comment before finishing.....I especially appreciated the information on Abednego. That's a new story to me. And fits into our story quite well, I think. Trying times ahead.
I’m interested to see what happens with Sylvia’s obvious interest in Kinraid before he leaves for home. I feel like her flushed face must be obvious to everyone around her since it’s so fully revealed to me. What if she happens to be alone with him as she frequently seems to be with Philip? So many reasons to keep reading. Gaskell knows how to keep her readers engaged.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Nanette and Her Lovers: A Tale of Normandy (other topics)Mary Barton: A Tale of Manchester Life (other topics)
Cranford (other topics)
Ruth (other topics)
North and South (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Thomas Hardy (other topics)Elizabeth Gaskell (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Edgar Allan Poe (other topics)
Charles Perrault (other topics)
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There is indeed a real humour in spite of all: "...leaving Kinraid for dead, as wasn't dead, and Darley for dead, as was dead, an' t' captain and master's mate as were too old for work…"