Reading the 20th Century discussion
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The Peepshow
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The Peepshow: The Murders at 10 Rillington Place by Kate Summerscale (February 2025)
Nigeyb wrote: "KS goes into a bit of detail about Ludovic Kennedy’s take and how that became the received version of the story in the popular imagination particularly his being an abortionist, and v fussy and off..."Does she explain why she disagrees?
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She just presents her findings and lets the reader make up their own mind
I found it interesting how the case became part of the argument for abolishing the death penalty and making abortion legal. It seems to me this understandably changed the narrative. Whether this is really what happened is now unknowable
What she does very well is present all the evidence which is often completely contradictory. We’ll never know what really happened or why.
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So I don't think anyone can be said to present 'all' the evidence, whatever the topic. But I was disappointed that re-writing this story today when so much has already been told about it (even if I didn't know it!) that KS showed so little curiosity about the questions raised.
We do, for example, know more about violence against women - it's, arguably, one of the most prominent issues currently under discussion. But this wasn't framed in relation to that. KS was very conscious of examples of racism but the underlying violent misogyny wasn't really dealt with in any substantive way.
She doesn't even mention Ludovic Kennedy until the end, and doesn't comment on other presentations of the Christie story. Re-opening a case like this, it might have been helpful to have had a preface saying these are the ways this story has been told before but I have a different angle and why.
But maybe we're being academic here about a book which isn't intended to be. I think non-fiction brings out my most critical side because it's about evidence, constructing an argument and marshalling the material. I'm quite disconcerted to find that there is far more that has been said about Christie's medical pretensions and abortion activities than I found in this book - and that destroys its credibility.
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KS doesn't mention that, she suggests a link back to his experience of being gassed in WW1 which made him lose the ability to speak for a while. Hmm!
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https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles..."
Thanks, that's the kind of more objective and analytical review I was looking for. I'm haunted by the final minutes of Beryl's life.
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Me too
For me this is just a history, not a re-examination of the case, or an attempt to find new angles on Christie and his motives. This probably accounts for why I found it a more satisfactory read. Either way I agree it leaves more questions than answers.
I notice Susan rated this one five stars and her review is more in line with my own response....
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
That said I do also understand your qualms and reaction RC
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RC's mention of the smog reminded me of a book I read about this which also ties in the Christie murders: Death in the Air: The True Story of a Serial Killer, the Great London Smog, and the Strangling of a City
A real-life thriller in the vein of The Devil in the White City, Kate Winkler Dawson's debut, Death in the Air, is a gripping, historical narrative of a serial killer, an environmental disaster, and an iconic city struggling to regain its footing.
In winter 1952, London automobiles and thousands of coal-burning hearths belched particulate matter into the air. But the smog that descended on December fifth of 1952 was different; it was a type that held the city hostage for five long days. Mass transit ground to a halt, criminals roamed the streets, and 12,000 people died. That same month, there was another killer at large in London: John Reginald Christie, who murdered at least six women. In a braided narrative that draws on extensive interviews, never-before-published material, and archival research, Dawson captivatingly recounts the intersecting stories of the these two killers and their longstanding impact on modern history.
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The casting/acting is excellent: Tim Roth as Christie with Samantha Morton and Jodie Comer as Ethel and Beryl respectively, and someone I didn't know as poor Tim who comes over as one of the victims - I flinched at his end.
The production almost made it into a haunted/possessed house story as it lingered over the claustrophobic and grubby interiors.
Has anyone else seen it?
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Roman Clodia wrote: "I watched the 2016 series '10 Rillington Place' last night which is on iplayer - so creepy! The casting/acting is excellent: Tim Roth as Christie with Samantha Morton and Jodie Comer as Ethel and..."
Yes, but a while ago, may be brave and watch it again. Although the world being what it is 'Amandaland' more my speed atm. I get what you mean about the house, I wasn't as keen on that, there were large numbers of similar houses at the time, part of the rationale for the mass demolitions during the 'slum clearances' of the mid-1960s. The downside being that whole communities were broken up and rehoused across multiple new housing estates.
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The two hangings made me flinch both times so be warned! And I had a strong emotional reaction to Tim Evans which I didn't have in the book. The whole thing is obviously grim but completely gripping TV.
I see this is now available in Kindle here for £1.99. A bit late!update: I missed Susan's post 3 days earlier!
A bit late? The book won't be released in the States until May!
Barbara wrote: "A bit late? The book won't be released in the States until May!"I imagine that's partly because it's assumed the case will have more resonance with British audiences, and positive reactions/reviews here will be useful for promoting it in the US.
Barbara wrote: "A bit late? The book won't be released in the States until May!"Sorry Barbara. I just meant that most of us had bought it at the higher price.
These different release dates are annoying!
Ben wrote: "Barbara wrote: "A bit late? The book won't be released in the States until May!"Sorry Barbara. I just meant that most of us had bought it at the higher price.
These different release dates are a..."
Perhaps Brits are more used to deferred gratification? Titles by Americans or reissued/translations from American publishers can take months to appear here - some never do!
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The world’s awash with remarkable culture and all anyone can do is scratch the surface
I'm not really bothered by having to wait. I was really just teasing Ben for saying "a bit late." I was thinking he meant he was late to the party rather than that the sale price was too late for those who'd paid full price. It would be nice if kindle release dates were the same wherever you are.
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Got me wondering about the competition
The Women’s Prize for Nonfiction 2025 longlist is as follows:
Anne Applebaum Autocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World
Eleanor Barraclough Embers of the Hands: Hidden Histories of the Viking Age
Helen Castor The Eagle and the Hart: The Tragedy of Richard II and Henry IV
Neneh Cherry A Thousand Threads
Rachel Clarke The Story of A Heart
Chloe Dalton Raising Hare
Jenni Fagan Ootlin
Lulu Miller Why Fish Don’t Exist: A Story of Loss, Love and the Hidden Order of Life
Clare Mulley Agent Zo: The Untold Stories of Fearless WW2 Resistance Fighter Elżbieta Zawacka
Rebecca Nagle By the Fire We Carry: The Generations-Long Fight for Justice on Native Land
Sue Prideaux Wild Thing: A Life of Paul Gauguin
Helen Scales What the Wild Sea Can Be: The Future of the World's Ocean
Kate Summerscale The Peepshow: The Murders at 10 Rillington Place
Harriet Wistrich Sister in Law: Fighting for Justice in a System Designed by Men
Alexis Wright Tracker
Yuan Yang Private Revolutions: Coming of Age in a New China
Nigeyb wrote: "OoohGot me wondering about the competition
The Women’s Prize for Nonfiction 2025 longlist is as follows:
Anne Applebaum Autocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World
Eleanor Barra..."
Quite an ecletic selection! I'm tempted by the Applebaum although I wasn't overly impressed by Gulag: A History or Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe 1944-1956 although probably unfairly she's a little further to to the right than me - centre right not far/dodgy right. Also loved 7 Seconds so good to see Neneh Cherry get some recognition. The others all sound worthy although I didn't enjoy what I've tried of Fagan's fiction.
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Got me wondering about the competition"
Thanks Nigey - I'm going to post for neatness on our prizes thread.
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I'm tempted by the Alexis Wright Tracker and the Helen Castor The Eagle and the Hart: The Tragedy of Richard II and Henry IV.
I tend to find Appelbaum a bit of a slog but may pick that up from the library at some point.
Roman Clodia wrote: "I've read Private Revolutions: Four Women Face China's New Social Order - a bit dry in places but worth a read if you're interested in women's lives and China. I'm tempted by the..."
She's not my fave either and, in any case, in terms of Musk & Trump's current playbook critiques of Nick Land's notion of Dark Enlightenment and its influence on Thiel, Vance etc, and articles on right-wing accelerationism - not e/acc btw but in its broader sense - probably more useful.
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Roman Clodia wrote: "Yes, shocking how quickly the context and terms of reference of 'autocracy' have changed since that book was written."I know, I remember too when versions of Warwick's left-wing accelerationism and Bastani's luxury communism were all the rage and influencing Corbyn. Who would have thought a right-wing version would have taken off in America and now be central to various presidential policies - as well as another iteration for alt-right, ultra-conservative Christian groups!
Roman Clodia wrote: "I'll be very interested in Ben's take on the legal process. No-one bothered by conflict of interest that a daily tabloid is involved in paying for the defence? The rule that you can only be tried for one murder at a time? "With respect to the second question, I suppose if they were entirely separate crimes trying them together would be unwieldy, but that's more a matter of efficient management of court time than an absolute rule. Multiple charges are often tried together, as are multiple murders.
The first question seems to me more a matter of journalistic ethics than legal rules. Anyone can pay for a defendant's legal fees. The important issue from the legal perspective is that the solicitor and the barrister owe their ethical obligations (determine legal strategy for the benefit of the client, confidentiality and zealous representation within the law) to their client, not to the person paying the bills.
We all know about the questionable ethics of British journalism in modern times, and this book discloses practices that are even worse than those that were exposed in relation to Diana, Milly Dowler and the various cases brought against News of the World and The Sun.
I'm pausing on my reading at around 35%. I might continue a bit later on to the end of the trial, which naturally interests me, but after going through the picture of early fifties London, the world of the prostitutes and the racism, I'm not sure what will sustain me for the rest of the book.And there are stronger competing calls for my attention: two other books, Bellefleur and the next volume of Proust, plus Wilt on High for some comic relief and my flailing and failing attempts to understand the ins and outs of the end of civilisation as I knew it in my country of birth.
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Ben wrote: "I'm pausing on my reading at around 35%. I might continue a bit later on to the end of the trial, which naturally interests me, but after going through the picture of early fifties London, the worl..."Sorry about that Ben, I see Bernie Sanders is creating a resistance network as are a number of progressive governors such as Pritzker in Illinois, Newsom in California, Hochul in NY, also see progressive lawyers have formed an association to fight back. And see action.org and others listing protest events. So all is not lost, and see the family values crowd are clashing with the pronatalists, and other cracks emerging. Although Carla Sands... guess the special relationship is well and truly over. I watched Pritzker's speech online and thought he was great - plus he's a billionaire from a business family so hard to paint as a weird lefty.
I agree, all is not lost, and we have not yet crossed the line between illegality and a coup, between a horrorshow and a nightmare, between a constitutionally suspect theory of government and a tyranny. Strange that there has been so little public reaction to the power grab. The polls still show the same solid support for 47 (44%, a statistically insignificant drop of 1%) he has had since the election.
Ben wrote: "I agree, all is not lost, and we have not yet crossed the line between illegality and a coup, between a horrorshow and a nightmare, between a constitutionally suspect theory of government and a tyr..."Well if the nightmare comes around we won't necessarily have to experience it. Yarvin who's apparently been such a major influence on Thiel, Musk and Vance advocates locking up anyone who resists the takeover. However, he believes "genocide is inhumane" so proposes locking dissidents away - "waxed into cells like bees" - but equipped with VR sets so they don't go "insane". I suppose it's a variation on psychiatric methods used on those who resisted during the last years of the Soviet Union! If Trump wins out, I suppose it'll be prison cells in El Salvador - the American version of Siberia.
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That's exactly what I was thinking until I saw Bernie Sanders' piece in yesterday's Guardian. I was going to ask you if there had been more protest and organisation in the US that hadn't been reported here: where are the Obamas, for example?
I guess we can't underestimate the effects of the media echo chamber and the overturning of objective facts.
It's clearly not the time to criticize Sanders who is clearly sincere and well-meaning but I did think his suggestion that people write in protest to their representatives was kind of missing the point if they're Trump supporters - hasn't the concept of representation been one of the casualties if one is a blue voter in a red state?
I also wonder what the effect is of Trump's embracing of Putin against Ukraine and most of Europe, given the American traditional horror of 'communism'.
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Or Guantanamo Bay?
Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "If Trump wins out, I suppose it'll be prison cells in El Salvador - the American version of Siberia."Or Guantanamo Bay?"
I thought Guantanamo was set aside for immigrants? The deal he wants to make with El Salvador would include provisions for imprisoning US citizens. It would also involve paying a fee for that provision - which presumably opens up the possibility of kickbacks.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Ben wrote: "Strange that there has been so little public reaction to the power grab."That's exactly what I was thinking until I saw Bernie Sanders' piece in yesterday's Guardian. I was going to a..."
There are reports of protests and pushbacks but they're not always being reported by largescale news providers. I've had to do a fair bit of digging to get a sense of what's actually going on. And even then reports are scattered across numerous sites.
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Btw, I've seen a sudden influx of votes for my review of Philip Roth's The Plot Against America. While it's set in 1940 when an openly fascist president is in the White House, just look at those quotations: www.goodreads.com/review/show/3092867711
Roman Clodia wrote: "Ben wrote: "Strange that there has been so little public reaction to the power grab."That's exactly what I was thinking until I saw Bernie Sanders' piece in yesterday's Guardian. I was going to a..."
But yes, I've been wondering why people like Michelle Obama aren't speaking out. I've seen footage of a couple of Republicans senators speaking out against Russia but that's it. I think 'wokeness' is the new enemy. So we're probably considered worse than Russia - Starmer's been referred to more than once as far-left/Stalinist partly because of our pro-Choice laws etc The ones Vance was obliquely referring to during his Munich speech and comments about repressing religious views following on from that. But the stats on pro-Choice groups here show that the majority of Christians including Catholics in the UK are pro-Choice - they just differ in their notions of what's an acceptable time limit.
But we seem to skew left in areas where the US skews right. Government reports on incel culture/groupings here, for example,, show that the majority of UK incels are left not right wing in their overall views.
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Roman Clodia wrote: "It's all depressingly indicative of how irrational things have become and the ineffectual nature of logical, rational discourse: that Keir Starmer is 'Stalinist' while Trump is making Putin his ally."Exactly very difficult to counter that kind of claim in a soundbite/TikTok vid. But since Trump seems to have gotten away with claims that Ukraine started the war with Russia and that their leader's a dictator hard to know what to expect. Did you see the Newsnight segment where Carla Sands claimed that we imprison more people for speaking their minds than Russia? The clip's partway down the page, it's been reported more widely but this was the first article that came up that included the clip:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/new...
I imagine tracks back to Musk/X and claims that rioters/Tommy Robinson etc falsely imprisoned.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Yes, it's always about the financial deal, isn't it - Gaza, Ukrainian minerals, joint investment opportunities with Russia...Btw, I've seen a sudden influx of votes for my review of Philip Roth's..."
I'm not a huge Roth fan but that one is very powerful, and yes horribly apt. Renewed popularity may partly be spurred by speeches like Gov Pritzker's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1kh0...
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Actually, I look at all the threads in group.
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Nigeyb wrote: "I don't mind. I have a marginal preference for staying broadly on topic. Politics is probably most appropriate in the Midnight Bell but... it's no biggie. I just skim the posts. As mentioned I have..."Sorry Nigey what R. C. said!
Reading the 20th Century
Books mentioned in this topic
The Plot Against America (other topics)Private Revolutions: Four Women Face China's New Social Order (other topics)
Private Revolutions: Four Women Face China's New Social Order (other topics)
Tracker (other topics)
The Eagle and the Hart: The Tragedy of Richard II and Henry IV (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Sam Selvon (other topics)Hallie Rubenhold (other topics)
Hallie Rubenhold (other topics)
Kate Summerscale (other topics)
In defence of KS, surely all she can really do is to chronicle her research findings. Ultimately no one can definitively know why a serial killer is, or becomes, a serial killer...."
Not at all, don't often find myself defending hetero men, but just sounds a bit as if she leans towards reinforcing dated stereotypes i.e. if quiet/"meek" and not aggressively and/or overtly macho then must secretly be harbouring murderous desires! Experiencing ED, being reserved or quiet, doesn't necessarily have any impact on sexual behaviours, and if it did is surely just as likely to result in taking on a submissive role as it is to lead to violent sadism?