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Nicholas Nickleby
Nicholas Nickleby - Group Read 6
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Nicholas Nickleby: Chapters 49 - 65
Here is a youtube post of a scene from the production I watched if you want to compare your DVD version. You'll note that it starts off static but there is a little camera movement and medium close-ups too. https://www.google.com/search?q=the+l...
Wel,l I went from loving the eerie foreboding atmosphere of the previous chapter to being equally invested in this chapter of a complete opposite emotional picture. Very heartwarming and like many others was completely charmed by Tim & Miss La Creevy's scenes.I did have an eye-rolling moment and chuckle in the opening with Mrs. Nickleby when she says at the end of her discussion of Miss La Creevy We never see ourselves- never do and never did- and I suppose we never shall. Is this a completely ironic statement or did she actually admit to some insight into herself?!
I am so thrilled to have Miss La Creevy and Tim Linkinwater decide to tie the knot. They are quite perfect together and this is one of the sweetest chapters! Interesting how they quite overshadow the younger couples. And, there is little more to say about the Cheerybles, except that Charles is another charming character, who always makes me wish to smile.
My favorite section of this chapter has to be that of Tim and Miss LaCreevy on the window seat. I never would have thought Tim would be such a smooth talker but indeed he was. And he worked his magic on her with his smart shoes and fine words. They seem a perfect couple.
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But doesn't this just show how skilful Charles Dickens is, to be able to manipulate our responses 2 centuries later, and how accurately he sums up human nature. Mainly we love this scene because we want the best for these two, who have been so engaging to read about, and always honourable and helpful to everyone they meet. Plus he writes it in such a droll way, with such an eye to detail that it makes us smile again 😊
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Sam - How true that Nichola's naivety comes across across as dim-wittedness sometimes! Is he having a gentle joke with her? Would he glance across at someone else in the room in a knowing way? Are we that someone else? I'm never quite sure, but I have noticed a difference from his earlier attitude.
At the beginning of the novel he was protective of his mother, but impatient with her and quick to show his annoyance. Kate had to mediate. Now he is calmer, and I see that as another aspect of his growth (however slight that growth may be).
Oh by the way, the link goes to lot of clips from shows where Roger Rees was interviewed, plus a few extracts. It's probably at my end though, as I understand that US licensing laws changed a while ago so that some are no longer able to be shown here. No matter though - I'm sure you're right that it is basically the same production, but with different editing 😊
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Nicholas yearns to see John Browdie again. John had been so kind to him, and Nicholas wants to share all his good news. Unable to put down the events in a letter, he decides to make a hasty surprise visit to the Browdies.
Thus it is that between seven and eight o’clock one evening, he and Kate are walking to the booking-office at the Saracen’s Head, to reserve a place for Nicholas on the next morning’s coach to Greta Bridge in Yorkshire. However they have been absorbed in chatting together so happily, that they get lost in the labyrinth of streets which lies between Seven Dials and Soho.
There is nobody around, and the wretched shops are closed, but there is a gleam of light coming from a cellar. Nicholas starts down the steps to ask for directions, but pauses when he hears a woman’s scolding voice:
“ ‘You nasty, idle, vicious, good-for-nothing brute,’ cried the woman, stamping on the ground, ‘why don’t you turn the mangle?’
‘So I am, my life and soul!’ replied the man’s voice. ‘I am always turning. I am perpetually turning, like a demd old horse in a demnition mill. My life is one demd horrid grind!’“
Kate recognises the voice immediately, and whispers to Nicholas that it is Mr. Mantalini. He is no longer elegant, fascinating and dashing, but standing:
“amidst clothes-baskets and clothes, stripped up to his shirt-sleeves, but wearing still an old patched pair of pantaloons of superlative make, a once brilliant waistcoat, and moustache and whiskers as of yore, but lacking their lustrous dye”
with his harridan of a wife screeching at him. Mr Mantalini is working away at the mangle as if his life depends on it.
“The Downfall of Mantalini” - Harry Furniss - 1910
Mrs. Mantalini screams at her husband, saying that he is not to be trusted. She had paid his bail for him to be let out of prison, and he still breaks her heart by gallivanting around. Her husband tries to appease her:
“I will be a good boy … I will never be naughty again; I beg its little pardon … He has gone to the demnition bow-wows. It will have pity? It will not scratch and claw, but pet and comfort? Oh, demmit!’” and promises not to do it again.
“Reduced Circumstances of Mr. Mantalini” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - September 1839
Nicholas interrupts to ask for directions to Piccadilly. When Mr. Mantalini sees Kate, he instantly hides under a counterpane on the bed and kicks his feet. When he pokes his nose out to see what is going on, his wife throws a heavy clothes basket at him, (thereby demonstrating that she has a very good aim). Nicholas and Kate take the opportunity to hurry away.
The next morning Nicholas begins his journey, and as he passes places on the route, he remembers his trip to Dotheboys Hall with Squeers. He dozes, and on waking, his present journey does not feel real:
“he could hardly believe but that all which had since happened had been a dream, and that they were still plodding wearily on towards London, with the world before them.”
As they pass through Stamford and Grantham, and the inn where he had heard the story of Baron of Grogzwig, it all looks so familiar that Nicholas could almost believe that he is sitting outside the coach again, with Squeers and the boys, and that he can heard their voices. But drowsily, he falls asleep and dreams of Madeline.
On arriving at Gretna Bridge, Nicholas stays overnight at the inn, and makes enquiries about John Browdie the next morning. Everyone knows where the family live, and a little boy takes him there. Impatient to see his friend, Nicholas raps loudly on the door with his stick. “What’s the matter now?” a voice says. “Is the town on fire? You’re making noise enough for it!”
John Browdie himself opens the door wide, and expostulates delightedly:
“By God it’s the godfather! Tilly, it’s Mr Nickleby. Give us your hand, man. Come in, come in, down beside the fire and take a sup of that. Don’t say a word until you’ve drunk it all. Up with it man. Darn, but I’m right glad to see you.”
So saying, John drags Nicholas into the kitchen, and virtually forces him to drink about a quarter of a pint of spirits, standing : “with a broad grin of welcome overspreading his great red face like a jolly giant.”
“I might have known that nobody else would knock on the door like you,” he jokes. “That was the knock you used at the schoolmaster’s door was it?”
and John laughs, and says, but what about the schoolmaster? “They were talking about it down town, but none of them seemed to understand it, like.”
Nicholas explains that Squeers has been sentenced to be transported for seven years for possession of a stolen will, and he still has yet to be sentenced for conspiracy.
“Whew,” John cries, “A conspiracy? Something in the gunpowder plot way? Eh? Something in the Guy Fawkes line?”
Nicholas says he will explain it later, but that it was to do with his school [i.e. not a plot to overthrow the government!] John readily agrees:
“That’s right. Explain it after breakfast, not now, because you’re hungry, and so am I, and Tilly must be in on explanations, for she says that’s a mutual confidence. By God that’s a rum [cheeky] start, a mutual confidence!”
Mrs Browdie enters wearing a very smart cap, and proceeds to load the table with vast amounts of food, which they do justice to very well.Nicholas now tells the Browdies everything that has happened:
“and never was there a story which awakened so many emotions in the breasts of two eager listeners. At one time, honest John groaned in sympathy, and at another roared with joy; at one time he vowed to go up to London on purpose to get a sight of the brothers Cheeryble; and, at another, swore that Tim Linkinwater should receive such a ham by coach, and carriage free, as mortal knife had never carved.”
When Nicholas tells them all about Madeline, and how they both insist that the Browdies must come to London to see them - and that to tell them his good fortune and assure them of his friendship was the only reason he had come to Yorkshire, Tilly is overcome. John holds out for a little longer, but is soon unashamedly blubbering too.
“I’ll tell you what though” says John, ”If this news about him [Squeers] has reached the school today, the old woman won’t have a bone left in her body, nor Fanny neither … I don’t know what those lads might do. When the news first got about that the schoolmaster was in trouble, some fathers and mothers took their young chaps away. If those that are left get to know what’s coming to them, there will be such a revolution and rebellion. Darn - I think they go daft and spill blood like water.”
John Brodie is so worried that he decides to ride straight over there. As he arrives at Dotheboys Hall and ties his horse to a gate, he can hear a riot going on inside. Wackford had been used to kicking, pinching and pulling the boys’ hair while his father was away. Now the boys are making a din and climbing on the benches. They duck young Wackford’s head in the bowl before making Mrs Squeers take her own brimstone and treacle:
“Mrs. Squeers gets a dose of her own medicine” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875
“The success of this first achievement prompted the malicious crowd, whose faces were clustered together in every variety of lank and half-starved ugliness, to further acts of outrage …
“The Breaking-up of Dotheboys Hall” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - October 1839
when John Browdie, bursting open the door with a vigorous kick, rushed to the rescue. The shouts, screams, groans, hoots, and clapping of hands, suddenly ceased, and a dead silence ensued.“
John Browdie stops the boys from attacking Mrs. Squeers, young Wackford, and Fanny. The boys shout that they are going to run away, because Squeers is in prison. He encourages the boys to give three cheers, like men, and run away, but tells them to stop hurting the women.
“Such a cheer arose as the walls of Dotheboys Hall had never echoed before, and were destined never to respond to again. When the sound had died away, the school was empty; and of the busy noisy crowd which had peopled it but five minutes before, not one remained.”
Fanny now accuses John of encouraging the boys to leave. John Browdie says he is glad that Squeers is in prison. However, he warns her not to be so proud as to shun her friends, for they can help her get away from the place. So saying, John mounts his horse and speeds back home.
For some time a rumour goes around that the Browdies give food and money to the boys. John always denies it, but with such a grin on his face that everyone suspects the rumour is true. Some of the children don’t adapt well, because the school had been the only home they knew, and some miss the other children.
“One had a dead bird in a little cage; he had wandered nearly twenty miles, and when his poor favourite died, lost courage, and lay down beside him. Another was discovered in a yard hard by the school, sleeping with a dog, who bit at those who came to remove him, and licked the sleeping child’s pale face.”
Some boys were taken back, but eventually Dotheboys Hall is no more:
“its last breaking-up began to be forgotten by the neighbours, or to be only spoken of as among the things that had been.”
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Just to note, there is a lot of John Browdie’s dialect in this one, so I have paraphrased his remarks in the first section, putting them in inverted commas - as per the convention - but not using italics, so that you can see that it is not how Charles Dickens wrote it. By the second half I have just summarised the text without using his speech, but if there is any dialect which mystifies you, please ask! It is very idiosyncratic … a mixture of Yorkshire and Geordie with the odd bit of West Country. 🤔
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One had a dead bird in a little cage; he had wandered nearly twenty miles, and when his poor favourite died, lost courage, and lay down beside him
It symbolises the experience all the boys had at Dotheboys; trapped, with little or no food, and no freedom. But it also very cleverly reminds me of Tim Linkinwater’s caged and blind bird who cannot fly, but is happy, loved and well cared for. So we are (or at least I am) left with a positive image.
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I liked the illustrations too: the Charles Stanley Reinhart one reminded me of William Hogarth (whose cartoons we've come across in the 18th century novels Charles Dickens liked) and have you noticed that Hablot Knight Browne made two for this one chapter alone? (He usually made two for each installment).
Over to you!
Thank you SO much for translating the dialect, Jean! I was stumped at a few phrases, and you've made all the difference for me.I just love the illustrations of Mantalini's and Mrs. Squeers' comeuppance!
I think my favorite quote is the one you shared, Jean, about Nicholas looking back on his journey: “he could hardly believe but that all which had since happened had been a dream, and that they were still plodding wearily on towards London, with the world before them.”
Now I'm going to break from the schedule and read the end, because I will be gone for the next few days and will miss our finale. :-( I'll be back to read everyone's thoughts later in the week.
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(I'm quite proud of myself for sticking to reading just one chapter a day too, albeit necessarily a little ahead to prepare some posts in advance).
I liked this chapter because of the fall of the house of Dotheboys!We are reminded of the poor caged birds in David Copperfield: (view spoiler)
Even though John and Nicholas don't have similar backgrounds, John always steps in and is a good friend to Nicholas when he is needed. I love his good spirits and hearty laugh!I felt so sorry for the younger boys who were leaving the school because the little ones had no idea how to get home, or even if they had a home. Dickens paints a heartbreaking picture when he tells about the dog protecting the tired little boy who probably has no energy or money to make his way home. It seemed that the Browdies helped out the children, although they would not take any credit for their generosity.
The Dotheboys boys are free...but free for what? Most of them were uncared for and don't have homes, so there is a true sadness there. I imagined them leaving this book and jumping right into Oliver Twist where they would be welcomed to join Fagan's troop.John Browdie is a marvelous character but I was glad he arrived after the boys had given Mrs. Squeers a taste of her own medicine.
Sara wrote: "John Browdie is a marvelous character but I was glad he arrived after the boys had given Mrs. Squeers a taste of her own medicine.."Ah, wonderful pun, Sarah!! I hadn't connected that, but I'm sure Dickens intended it.
John Browdie is such a nice man, how honorable of him to offer help to Fanny Squeers.
My joy at the downfall of Dotheboys was dashed when I realized the dilemma of many of the boys especially the youngest among them. Although John Browdie took care of some by feeding them, they still have nowhere to go or people to care for them. The boy who lay down beside is bird who had died in the cage, just heartbreaking!I loved that the boys made Mrs. Squeers swallow the treacle. Just desserts!
Bionic Jean wrote: "My favourite quotation is a poignant detail:One had a dead bird in a little cage; he had wandered nearly twenty miles, and when his poor favourite died, lost courage, and lay down beside him
It ..."
Yes indeed. You are right Jean. Birds and birdcages perform an important role in this novel. The symbol of birds and cages is also present with Madeline. In chapter 46 Browne’s illustration ‘Nicholas makes his first visit to Mr Bray’ a birdcage is seen above Madeline on the wall as the door is opened by Nicholas. Browne subtly suggests that Nicholas, who holds the door open, could be he way Madeline could escape from her father. The idea of linking Madeline and Nicholas to the concept of escape is again seen in the.Browne illustration ‘The Crisis of the Project and its Result’ that accompanies chapter 54. Again, the birdcage is located above Madeline who has just fainted. Nicholas hovers over Madeline and is standing between her and her oppressors. He is protecting her.
Browne was a master of placing iconography/symbols in his illustrations.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Sam - How true that Nichola's naivety comes across across as dim-wittedness sometimes! Is he having a gentle joke with her? Would he glance across at someone else in the room in a knowing way? Are we that someone else? I'm never quite sure, but I have noticed a difference from his earlier attitude. ..."My feeling is Dickens is definitely sharing a wink with his readers of the time and would like to think that he might have been looking into the future and winking at us as well.
Again, how I marvel at what I would call the instinctual??? insight of Dickens in the subtle structuring that he is employing in this and other works. I feel the choice of John Browdie as centerpiece of this next to last chapter is brilliant, when considering the numerous potential options he had. By using Browdie with his broad comedic appeal , Dickens is able to clean our palates of the leftover thoughts regarding Ralph's suicide, while also distracting us from the heavy thought-provoking themes raised by the way the author resolved Raph's conflict with Nicholas. These thoughts that might be lingering in the reader are completely dispersed by Browdie's swaggering, carefree, toxic-male approach to life, and can't help but make us laugh. He is the perfect master of ceremonies to host the tidying up of details regarding the school and threads from that part of the novel. We have in this discussion as well as past discussions talked of what Dickens planned or didn't plan as this novel developed, and I wonder if that question is somewhat moot, because no matter how he got there, Dickens has managed to pulli it all together and IMO, it totally works!!!. One could probably write an essay arguing that in the construction of the novel, Browdie's character was added specifically so he could be featured in this chapter to quickly bring the novel from the serious to the comic. That argument might be wrong, but there is supporting evidence, and I suggest that it is because of such qualities that Dickens' works are classic and so readable today.
There was a television show in the U.S. called MacGyver whose hero when faced with a problem would improvise a solution from ordinary materials at hand. Dickens is MacGyver-like in his ability to extract from his previously written material, solutions that make it seem they were intentionally planned originally.
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It's clear there will be much suffering, but my main thought is that Charles Dickens wanted us to look at the overall picture i.e. that with the downfall of Dotheboys Hall, and the transportation of Squeers (preventing him from starting up another school), there will be no future suffering. Still thinking within the context of the novel, I don't think any boy would end up with Fagin (or his real life inspiration, Ikey Solomon) as he is 250 miles away. Cities such as Manchester might be a possibility, and they could end up in the cotton mills of Lancashire, scrambling under the machinery, or doing that sort of job children were forced into. Some might likely end up thieving for food. But really lucky ones could just end up being taken on, to do work in local farms. Then there are those who have been collected by their parents. So I think (and hope) some would come through it all. 🤔
Plus of course it goes without saying really, that Charles Dickens thought we would accept their fictitious sacrifice, to enable the widespread reaction and condemnation of such schools in the real world afterwards. And we can see in this second Preface, that the popularity of the book effected exactly that .😊
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Claudia - Yes indeed, that's another good one, and the classic one I think of is Miss Flite in Bleak House
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Not the character per se, but it's quite possible that that is the reason John Browdie was brought back to the action at that point. 😊
Remember that we do know for certain that Charles Dickens wanted to give John Browdie a positive role, because of what he said in the preface. He wanted to honour such an upright man (in real life) and I suspect that a face-off between him and Squeers - i.e. a simulation of the two real life antagonists - would have been the ideal dramatically. But it's far better to transport Squeers.
This use of someone who seems relatively minor, to be involved in major changes in the action (John helped Nicholas too, when he had no money) reminds me of later, when in David Copperfield Charles Dickens completely changed his intended storyline for (view spoiler). The real life original recognised herself, and was so upset - even threatening to sue him - that Charles Dickens made her have a heroic contribution to the story - just like he has done with John Browdie. 😊
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Madeline marries Nicholas after her period of mourning has ended, and Kate marries Frank the same day. Tim Linkinwater and Miss La Creevy were asked to make a third couple, but decline and marry two or three weeks later, without having told anyone.
Nicholas invests his wife’s inheritance into the Cheeryble Brothers’ business, where Frank is already a partner. It is not long before the business become “Cheerbyle and Nickleby”, and “Mrs. Nickleby’s prophetic anticipations were realised at last.”
When the Cheeryble brothers retire, Tim accepts a share in the house and still works just as hard, but will not be a partner. The new Mrs Linkinwater moves into his old lodgings, Tim and his wife are generally considered to be the happiest of comfortably married couples.
Ralph Nickleby had died without making a will, so in English Law his money should have gone to his family. But they could not bear the thought of growing rich with money accumulated in such a way, so:
“They made no claim to his wealth; and the riches for which he had toiled all his days, and burdened his soul with so many evil deeds, were swept at last into the coffers of the state, and no man was the better or the happier for them.”
Arthur Gride has a good lawyer, who makes use of a legal loophole so that he is acquitted of being in possession of a stolen will. However, it is to do him no good in the long run, as one night several years later, he was to be murdered by robbers, who had heard of his tremendous wealth.
Mrs. Sliderskew is transported shortly after Mr. Squeers, and dies abroad. Brooker dies, having repented. Mulberry Hawk lives the high life abroad for some years, and is admired, but when he returns to England he is thrown into debtor’s prison “and there perished miserably, as such high spirits generally do.”
Nicholas, now rich because of Madeline’s inheritance and his share of the business, buys his father’s house and expands it to meet the needs of his growing family. Kate lives nearby with her husband and children of her own, one of whom looks just like her. Mrs. Nickleby divides her time between the two families. She never really forgives Miss La Creevy for marrying, and it takes her a long time to be sociable with Mrs. Linkinwater.
“There was one grey-haired, quiet, harmless gentleman, who, winter and summer, lived in a little cottage hard by Nicholas’s house, and, when he was not there, assumed the superintendence of affairs. His chief pleasure and delight was in the children, with whom he was a child himself, and master of the revels.”
This is Newman Noggs, now living in a cottage by Nicholas’s home. He loves the children, and they love him dearly.
“The little people could do nothing without dear Newman Noggs” - Fred Barnard - 1875
The children often place flowers on Smike’s grave, and reflect on the sad life of their cousin.
“The Children at Their Cousin’s Grave” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - October 1839
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Charles Dickens's Celebration
I mentioned earlier that Charles Dickens actually finished writing Nicholas Nickleby on 20th September 1839. You can therefore tell how close to publication he wrote from Hablot Knight Browne’s illustration for this installment: October 1839.
On 5th October, a dinner to celebrate the completion of Nicholas Nickleby was held (remember it had been 19 months’ reading for the original readers, not 3, as we have taken!) at the Albion in Aldersgate St., at which his publishers Chapman and Hall presented him with Daniel Maclise’s portrait.
This is the portrait which heads the very first thread. Here it is again:
. It may also be in your edition of Nicholas Nickleby, as it is generally known as “The Nickleby Portrait”. Many readers at the time commented on how like Nicholas, the young man in the portrait was, particularly in his expression. It now hangs in the National Portrait Gallery, London.
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I think the character I am most pleased about here is Newman Noggs, and Fred Barnard’s drawing of him is lovely.
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“Dick, the blackbird, was removed from the counting-house and promoted to a warm corner in the common sitting-room” 🥰
I’m really looking forward to hearing your final thoughts!
I like how the last paragraph in the book is devoted to Smike since he seems to represent innocence and goodness like the young children. It's unfortunate that he never knew that he was a Nickleby cousin so he could have truly felt part of a family and experienced a cousin's loving relationship with Kate.Dickens has been a wonderful storyteller in this novel, and it was such an enjoyable read.
Jean, you have really outdone yourself with all your fascinating explanations! Thank you for all your effort!
Connie wrote: "Dickens has been a wonderful storyteller in this novel, and it was such an enjoyable read.Jean, you have really outdone yourself with all your fascinating explanations! Thank you for all your effort!"
Connie those are also my sentiments exactly!
For anyone who's interested, my review of Nicholas Nickleby is here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... .
If Mrs Nickleby was so jealous of Miss LaCreevy's marriage to Tim Linkinwater, perhaps she should have gone back and re-acquainted herself with Mr Zucchini-Tosser who was so smitten with her, LOL!
It was definitely a great reading experience! I very much enjoyed this novel through thick and thin, thanks to Jean's wonderful hosting. Jean's comprehensive summaries and background knowledge helped make Nicholas Nickleby even more enjoyable, while everyone's comments were really thought-provoking!
A double wedding is such an appropriate ending for this expansive, dramatic story. Shakespeare often ended his comedies with multiple weddings. Its a great way to end a play and since this novel has all the hallmarks of "dramatic Dickens" that felt right to me. Also, so fitting that Tim and Miss La Creevy had a smaller, more modest wedding. Grand wedding celebrations are events for the young, who are filled with the possibilities of the future and starting their families. Weddings for middle aged couples who are settling down together are special but should be more modest. But here I fear I'm beginning to sound judgemental like Mrs. Nickleby, and I don't want that! So, I think I'll stop now before I get myself into word smithing trouble.
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Great observation Bridget! And although some of us might know someone a bit like Mrs Nickleby in real life, I don't think I know anyone on GR who fits! 😂 But isn't it typical of both Tim Linkinwater and the former Miss La Creevy that they would move aside, so as to let others shine? And also to allow the young people to have their special day - even though as you say it was special for them too! (Perhaps even more so, as they are older and neither has been married before. We know Tim Linkinwater had been disappointed in love in the past, and presumably Miss La Creevy imagined her prospects at her time of life were small.) l can't imagine Mrs Nickleby giving way so gracefully, whether or not her new husband used vegetable marrows as projectiles in their courtship, Paul.😆
What a wonderful and satisfying ending. Like a Shakespearean comedy, we end with happiness and weddings. While this novel may have initially seemed to be hastily written in some of the earlier chapters Dickens gives his readers a very well planned finale.If we go back to the end of chapter 58 one more time we read in the last paragraph that as Smike dies he said he saw ‘beautiful gardens … which stretched out before him, and were filled with figures of men, women, and many children, all with light upon their faces; then whispered that it was Eden — and so died.’
We have looked at this paragraph in another context just recently. In this instance Smike’s words carry the reader forward to the end paragraph of the novel where ‘fresh flowers wreathed by infant hands rest upon the stone [and where] eyes filled with tears, [and voices] spoke low and softly’ of their poor dead cousin.’ Smike rests in an Eden tended to by his relatives. Hablot Browne’s illustration ‘The Shadow at their cousin’s grave’ further assures us that Smike has found his eternal home.
Jean, you have an excellent memory. My fascination with Dickens's use of birds in his novels continues and yet I fear my thoughts will never see the light of day. Hopefully, during a study of ‘American Notes’ however, I will be able to provide some insights to our mutual friend Mr Dickens's journey through Canada.
It has been a pleasure to learn so much from every member of The Dickensians. Thank you.
Merry Christmas from Toronto, Canada.
Peter
There is so much left to say... i will try and add one more post to summarize my thoughts but let me first join in appreciation and thanks to the other members who have helped make this so enjoyable for me with the many posts of varied opinions that offer so much to the overall experience. I tried to trim my comments so as not to bore and fell out of rhythm a few times and had to play catvh up but this has been an enjoyable and memorable five star read because of everyone here. There is no way to praise or thank Jean enough for her contribution, dedication, encouragement, and patience. I think she makes us all more attentive readers and I think she manages to bridge our differences drawing the group around her. So that said, thanks Jean.
I will add something tomorrow pertaining to the novel but best wishes to all for now from South Carolina, U.S.
How I love the way Dickens wraps up his stories so satisfactorily! In Chapter 63, I love that Dickens gave Mr. Linkinwater and Miss La Creevy one of the sweetest romances written, despite the fact they both knew they were considered too old for all that. And if Mrs. Nickleby doesn't like it, then as Paul said, she needs to go back and find Mr. Zucchini-Tosser. LOLIn Chapter 64, I'm sure Dickens must have heard or sensed that his audience wanted one last chance to laugh at Mr. Mantalini. And he gave it to them! I know I loved it!
As others have said, I thought it was so tragic that Dickens did not give happy endings to all of the boys escaping from Dotheboys Hall. The two examples he gave were just beyond sad and tragic! But I think we addressed this before, and it was felt that Dickens was showing real life, and that the work of caring for disadvantaged youths was far from over. If that was Dickens' aim, it certainly worked for me!
In Chapter 65, where Dickens informs the reader that Ralph Nickleby's estate went into state coffers, and as you pointed out, Jean, "no man was the better or the happier for them". What struck me here is I wondered if Dickens was trying to forestall any charitable foundation being established in Nickleby's name, where he would be praised for "his good works." That was the impression I was left with.
And what a sweet ending for Newman Noggs, being surrounded by a family that truly loves and appreciates him. 🥰
Jean ~ Thank you so much for the lengthy explanation about Madame de La Rue (message 234), and the terrible effects each had on the other. Although he helped her, I think he was close to losing himself in his own inner battles. I wonder how much of his nightly "running aways" was running from his past as a poor boy in a blacking factory and the fear of failure and returning to the poor house. I really feel this episode would uncover so much about him!
And thank you, Jean, and all my fellow Dickensians for once again providing such an incredible reading experience! I love the comprehensive summaries, "the little mores", the invaluable illustrations, the reading pace, the ability to absorb and discuss, and semi-recreating the experiences of Dickens' audience. I love it!
Dickens never disappoints me at the end. I always know exactly what has happened to everyone and can easily envision the future all three of our married couples can expect. In fact, the two young couples will profit much from having the older example in front of them. I love all the observations regarding Smike. A lesser author would have felt he had finished with him.
Jean--words are inadequate to say how much you add to the experience of reading Dickens. The labor you put into the task is apparent and so much appreciated. I cannot think of a more generous person, for you share your knowledge, your laughter, your time and your thoughts with us daily. And, you bring out the best in all of us! Thank you!
So much has already been said that I also feel. This was a great group reading. I’m very glad I decided to read NN again—I knew it would be different with the Dickensians, with the discussion and Jean’s masterful preparation. To be honest, it was even better than I had anticipated and I enjoyed this reading even more than my first. It’s a 5 star one now. Thanks to all for the interesting input. Jean, once again thanks for your guidance and education along the way.
I want to add my thanks to Jean for the incredible work she has put into this read.
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We all gain from reading together, I think...
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If indeed Ralph's name had been passed on by default as some kind of benefactor that would have been dreadful indeed - and it also could be an explanation of why Nicholas did not accept the inheritance. All through we had the impression that the Cheeryble brothers did their work in a low-key fashion - if not actually anonymously. Remember when they were so keen to "pretend" that Madeline's work was in great demand, so they could give her money?
Nicholas will feel like this too, and shy away from any honour to himself coming from his good works. It came to me in a flash that this is yet another aspect of Charles Dickens himself. Many years later, in his will he was to expressly forbid any statue or monument being made to him, after his death.
I'm pleased my post on Mme de La Rue was useful. I reread the chapter about her in Fred Kaplan's book, to make sure I had remembered correctly, as well as part of John Forster's. I am sure you are right about Charles Dickens's own early memories feeding into this too.
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The thread for The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain is LINK HERE and will be open in a couple of days - don't miss it! Petra's reads are always deservedly popular 🤩
Please feel free to share more thoughts on Nicholas Nickleby as a whole, and I look forward to reading them, as well as those from readers who are making their way towards this point in their own time.
Thank you so much, everyone! 😁
This group and especially Jean has propelled me forward with much enjoyment in reading these classics, and often for the first time. Dickens seems to never fail to deliver on social justice issues, evil vs, good, as well as pathos, joy, irony, humor & of course love. NN did not disappoint.And happy to discover a book with many of Dickens' ghost stories including our next read at the library. I am at the ready.
Jean~. I have a question about reading John Forster's The Life of Charles Dickens. I have had it in my bookcase for a couple of years but have not read it for fear of reading spoilers from books I haven't read yet (I have read 8 of his novels and several short stories). What is your advice? Skip the chapters dealing with the novels I haven't read yet, or go ahead and read them all, knowing I probably won't remember the spoilers anyway? LOLAlso, I plan to read Little Dorrit next year and follow the Dickensians! discussion threads. There were so many references to this novel while reading Nicholas Nickleby that I felt I NEEDED to read it before reading another Dickens novel.
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It's always tricky with a biography, isn't it? What we did for our group read was to put alerts to spoilers in the first post, for each of the 3 volumes. I think this worked well, at least in the first one LINK HERE.
Because John Forster had so much input, especially for the later novels, I think you'll find the parts dealing with a novel you have read particularly interesting, as he goes into great detail. But the analysis is only a small part overall. It's the sort of book you can read in stages too, and come back to after a break.
Thank you SO much for the re-link to the Side Reads, Jean! I don't know why I didn't think to check there. That is going to be tremendously helpful in knowing what chapters to look out for spoilers. I can't wait to get started. Our discussions have been showing me that I would get so much more out of the novels if I understood Dickens better.I may go ahead and start in January and read along with the discussion thread to make sure I get as much out of my reading Forster's biography as I can.
Again, thank you, for all of the help you so freely share!
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Nicholas Nickleby (other topics)New Grub Street (other topics)
What the Dickens?!: Distinctly Dickensian Words and How to Use Them (other topics)
Little Women (other topics)
The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
G.K. Chesterton (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
George Gissing (other topics)
Anthony Trollope (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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I also meant to add that I also really like that quotation picked out by Kathleen and Kelly. How could Miss La Creevy resist? 🥰
It also occurred to me that portrait of Kate by William Powell Frith which Peter located, would fit very well with today's chapter, too. Here is wiki on the artist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...
You might recognise the one called "The Crossing Sweeper" from our read of Bleak House, and there are a couple of other Dickensian ones too.