I'll never, ever ever, start reading another unfinished series! How about you?

[Cherie]

Here's something I don't understand - if the outline of the series needs to be done before the books are contracted what could possibly be the drama behind the third kingkiller book?

I honestly have started to feel, having spent some time reading his blog and watching his interaction with online communities, that whatever his personal struggles are [I know he's struggling in some way] he's made himself incapacitated with regard to finishing this series. He gets defensive. He writes a separate book rather than finish. It seems like he's afraid to finish the trilogy.

I get that - and feel badly for him - but I won't walk around saying 'it's a gift that's not ready to be given' [from a previous interview link here] He's spending a large amount of time on many other projects. There's a reason - I call it fear, it might be something else - but if you vaguely know where the trilogy is going and run in circles, scream and shout, instead of finishing something like this - it's not a justifiable choice in my opinion.

I think it's a very different issue than coming back to a series that had some resolution after decades. Tad Williams is back to his original series - after many many years - but i felt like the stories were done after that last one - happy to try the new - but it's not the same and stopping mid-series.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Tnkw01 wrote: "idiffer wrote: "A quote from J.C Keely's 2007 review of game of thrones.
But first a link, because the man is a genius.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show......"

I think he's right to avoid the things he thinks he'll actively dislike. And I think it's also fair to the author. Why would you want someone to read your book(s) when you know they are going in with a chip?

[Tnkw01]

MrsJoseph wrote: "Tnkw01 wrote: "idiffer wrote: "A quote from J.C Keely's 2007 review of game of thrones.
But first a link, because the man is a genius.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show......"

I completely agree with that for the average reader. However, even though I respect J.C Keely greatly and really think he has really wonderful reviews, his opinion might influence someone else to not read something that they might really love. Maybe, just say something like, "haven't read it and don't have an opinion" instead of putting in a "To Avoid" category. So with that being said, it's just my opinion and it's his blog and if that's what he wants to put on it who am I to disagree.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Mark wrote: "I immortalized(ish) this thread in a blog post ."

Hmmm. Interesting points. I see what you are saying BUT the fact is that people have to make decisions.

While it is unfair, I guess, for a certain amount of books to be sold in order for a series to continue...

...it is also unfair to expect readers to hold out for completion. Over and over and over and over and over again.

I mean, let's be honest: Are there ANY non-series SSF books anymore? ALL of yall write series. Which means that you are all asking everyone to wait all the time.

It's gets really old, really fast.

Then you add in the neverfinished series + the neverending series and I start getting series burnout.

There are so many series out right now - in progress/unfinished - that I've stopped reading my favorite author's primary series (she has 3 others I'm current in (see my series frustrated face). But I still BUY those books/that author because she is CONSISTENT.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Tnkw01 wrote: "I completely agree with that for the average reader. However, even though I respect J.C Keely greatly and really think he has really wonderful reviews, his opinion might influence someone else to not read something that they might really love. Maybe, just say something like, "haven't read it and don't have an opinion" instead of putting in a "To Avoid" category. So with that being said, it's just my opinion and it's his blog and if that's what he wants to put on it who am I to disagree. "

Nope. I don't agree. The reason people gravitate to Keely is BECAUSE he's cut and dried honest. He's avoiding that information for the stated reasons. There's no reason to NOT say what he's said unless he's lying. He hasn't read it but he DOES have an opinion.

Due to the rise of the reader review and Self Publishing, the average reader has become so tied in to what promoters feel readers SHOULD do that no one really thinks about what readers DO: read and make judgement calls.

Everyone calls on the reader-reviewer to "be nice" and to "think about the author" and let's not forget that "other people might be influenced."

But that's totally the point. Books are inanimate and don't have feelings and I'm not thinking about the author - cause a book is NOT an author: I'm thinking about the book - and I am deliberately TRYING to influence other people.

[Jason]

I have followed this thread with interest and there are some valid points on both sides. I share the frustration of many in waiting for the latest instalment of a beloved series, particularly when the author seems be doing a lot of side projects rather than GETTING ON WITH IT!
However, to say that you'll never start a series until its complete is going too far. If everyone took that attitude, it would kill our genre. Publishers simply wouldn't continue with a series if its first book didn't sell.
In an ideal world, of course, my favourite authors would write their books as fast as i read them! Alas, this is not an ideal world.
I'm afraid its the nature of the beast- you want a complex, intricate, deeply immersive world packed with interesting characters? Well it takes time and if you don't get in at the start, they probably won't exist at all. What a tragic situation that would be

[Tnkw01]

These are all very good points. Again, who am I to disagree. We all have our opinions and we should all respect them. Besides, I don't really let anyone influence me anyway. If I want to read something, then I will (I'm kind of stubborn like that) ; ) and sometimes I give bad ratings and reviews myself even if I'm in the minority. Again, these are just my opinions.

[Tnkw01]

Oh, and this is a great discussion. We need more like this.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Jason wrote: "I have followed this thread with interest and there are some valid points on both sides. I share the frustration of many in waiting for the latest instalment of a beloved series, particularly when ..."

I disagree.

I think that if readers put their foots down and say STOP IT with the never ending series, authors will STOP with the never ending series.

I mean, the never ending series thing is new - this isn't how books were back in the day. And NEVER did all of the authors take eleventy-million years to finish up their series (when they wrote them). Look at (my favorite) Andre Norton: she finished ALL her series. All. She even closed the door in her most popular series prior her death. [The series allowed for doors between other worlds and hers and she literally shut those doors.]

I'm not saying that I don't want series books, but I am saying ENOUGH with a million of them and damn it! Finish the series up!

Personally, I feel that the authors writing never ending series is what brought us here. My husband loves a good GrimDark - he won't touch Malazan with a 10 ft pole. Nor will he even pretend to be interested in GRRM's ASoIaF - though he watches A Game of Thrones.

I feel that never starting unfinished series is self protection.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Tnkw01 wrote: "These are all very good points. Again, who am I to disagree. We all have our opinions and we should all respect them. Besides, I don't really let anyone influence me anyway. If I want to read somet..."

Truth.

I hear BS everyday on GR about Romance books - but I loves them and I read them by the barrel. From my cold, dead hands only.

[Jim]

I don't object to never ending series since I'm never sure what will wind up that way. I really don't like those that don't have books that are fairly self-contained & I detest those that constantly end in cliff-hangers.

Tom Swift, the Hardy Boys & others introduced me to never ending series early, but they could be read in any order without losing anything. I never really got into either one, though.

Modesitt's Recluce series has been increasing for a couple of decades pretty well. While not every book stands alone completely, they tend to only have a few books that depend on each other too closely. Fine with me. I've reread most of them, some several times.

My biggest disappointment was with Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series. The books start off with a neat world & a great kick-ass heroine. They need to be read in order & the first 10 or so are good enough that I was looking for more, but then the series changes its character entirely. Less & less is resolved in each book until I couldn't even stand skimming them to see what would happen with the couple of characters I was interested in.

I let Hamilton & others know by not buying the book new. I gave a used one the review it deserves, until I quit bothering to read them. I've also been complaining about it for years in groups like these. That seems to have had about the same weight as spitting in a rainstorm, but what else can a reader do? Such is life.

[Tnkw01]

MrsJoseph wrote: "Tnkw01 wrote: "These are all very good points. Again, who am I to disagree. We all have our opinions and we should all respect them. Besides, I don't really let anyone influence me anyway. If I wan..."

LOL, I can appreciate this!!

[Tnkw01]

Jim wrote: "I don't object to never ending series since I'm never sure what will wind up that way. I really don't like those that don't have books that are fairly self-contained & I detest those that constantl..."

I usually don't mind reading the first book of a series. I know pretty quick if I'm going to continue though. There are some that straddle the fence and those usually fall to the not read side though sometimes I give the second book a chance.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

I've been thinking about this thread and think I may have found what is irritating me.

When I was a young reader (ha!), series books were treats. It was haarrrd to find a GOOD fantasy/SF book. But when you found one...you knew you hit the jackpot if it was also part of a trilogy.

That's the majority of the series books I had access to - trilogies. Even books that were part of a universe were written as parts of (mostly) trilogies and duologies. There were a few that were not - but a lot of those books were written as trilogies but broken up by the publisher (see Pawn of Prophecy - this is book 1 of a 5 book series but the series was written as a trilogy).

Now, everything is a series. Far from being excited, most of the time my heart sinks a bit when I run into a series... and that might be because I've been stuck in series hell for quite some time now. Unfinished series, neverending series, series that are TV shows before the damn books are finished.

I've tried to stay true to my authors who give me what I'm looking for. Which is why I own every book Ilona Andrews has written - read or not - and why Mercedes Lackey often gets a pass for me (she does NOT keep character sketches or something so her characters change backgrounds basis her plot needs).

I do want to say that all this fussing is my personal thing, however. I will never look down on your reading of as many series as you see fit. As long as you like it, I love it. ;-)

I like these conversations because I can't get them IRL but I don't want someone to feel judged. It's all just a good argument.

And (of course) all fussing should be taken with a grain of salt as my book buying habits are quite out of control. To the point that I should be ashamed. I really should.

[idiffer]

@MrsJoseph
Yeah, I'm not too fond of series either. A character arc or a plotline doesn't need 15 books. It just starts repeating after a while and I get bored. From reviews, I gathered that nowadays an author writes a trilogy just for the heck of it (or money?), and I hear the words "second book syndrome" alot. I'm more lenient towards trilogies, though. I do get tired after after the first or second book, but I usually finish the series + many plots do warrant three books. Like Red Rising.

Speaking of... What is his next project after red rising's success? Yup, a series set 20(?) years later in the same universe. And this brings me to another point: maybe the authors who write long series are just lazy? I mean for your next installment you don't have to invent new geography, politics, magic systems, etc. All the groundwork is already laid. And if this is indeed the case, I can't respect such authors.

Replying to a point in Mark Lawrences blogpost:
If you're living in a non english speaking country and you like reading foreign series and you don't know english... you're pretty much fucked. In Russia it's hopeless to rally the masses to support the industry by your wallet - it won't change our love of free shit. If a publisher finishes translating a series less famous than Twilight or Harry Potter, I can only guess it's out of the kindness of the CEO's heart. The first book, Prince of thorns, had 3000 printed copies. The third and last one - 1700. Not much bucks to be made it seems.
The only reason japanese light novels are doing so great here is because there are no ebooks sold of them and ppl are too lazy to scan the printed versions.

[Jim]

MrsJoseph wrote: "...And (of course) all fussing should be taken with a grain of salt as my book buying habits are quite out of control. To the point that I should be ashamed. I really should. "

I think this speaks for most of us.
;)

[Tnkw01]

Jim wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "...And (of course) all fussing should be taken with a grain of salt as my book buying habits are quite out of control. To the point that I should be ashamed. I really should. "

I..."

Hear, Hear!