Fantasy Book Club discussion
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I'll never, ever ever, start reading another unfinished series! How about you?
Bruce wrote: "I have had too many waiting experiences. I site two of my favorite authors: Jack Vance, "Dying Earth," series. First book published 1950, #4 in 1984. L. Sprague de Camp, "Unbeheaded King," series. First book published 1950(?). Last volume 1990(?)."To be fair, the Dying Earth books aren't a series in the Game of Thrones/Malazan sense -- they're four relatively standalone books (although 3 is a direct sequel to 2) that happen to share the same setting.
I think my personal record is Glen Cook's Dread Empire series -- An Ill Fate Marshalling came out in 1988 (although I didn't read it until maybe 1990 or 1991) and ended on a HUGE cliffhanger, and the next (& final) book, A Path to Coldness of Heart, didn't come out until 2012.
Extenuating circumstances, though -- some "fan" apparently stole the original version of the almost-complete manuscript; and Dread Empire sales were so low relative to his Black Company and Garrett, P.I. books that it didn't make sense to try to reconstruct it until Night Shade made a deal with him in the late 2000s.
I've gone back & forth on this over the years. When the Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant were being released, I waited until White Gold Wielder was available before reading either of the previous two volumes. These days, I've decided life is too short not to read unfinished series, if the books that are available intrigue me. I'll read what's out there, move on to other things, and if/when a sequel is released, I'll add it to my queue as time permits.
Mili wrote: "Xetws wrote: "Mili wrote: "Im also frustratingly waiting on Doors of Stone..Meanwhile Brandon Sanderson has a lot of unfinished series which I'm eager to start. But I don't want to have too many op..."Won't go to work on the day it's published!
Don't have time to read all posts, sorry.But on topic - I don't mind starting new and unfinished series as long as I'm sure they'll be finished (And translated. It's trully an issue - often series don't get translated all the way).
I've started around ... a dozen of series at the moment. I just jump through them, I don't need to finish them asap.
I've been complaining a lot about Kingkiller Chronicles and Patrick Rothfuss's attitude towards his readers about news from his next book.Well, my whole opinion is not changed, but who thinks like me, probably should read this:
http://spigana.spektore.lv/2015/04/22...
I respectfully disagree, I love waiting and anticipating new books to come out! I reallllllly wish I had nt become tool cool for Harry Potter after book 4 though. I went through a long dark age in which I missed the entire movie and book hype train. that really saddens me :(
There's little more exciting than discovering a finished series that you really enjoy. That said, you can generally see if an author will be reliable or not for finishing in a timely manner. While it can be manageable to remember what's going on for a bit, eventually one does forget. I noticed that Attwood did recaps in her The MaddAddam Trilogy: Oryx and Crake; The Year of the Flood; MaddAddam. I was generally okay with Rothfuss until he published The Slow Regard of Silent Things. It was terribly pretentious and not good writing in any respect. That's when I had to admit that it's all gone to his head and THAT is why he doesn't respect the reader. I immediately unsubscribed from all his media and returned the book.
Heather wrote: "There's little more exciting than discovering a finished series that you really enjoy. That said, you can generally see if an author will be reliable or not for finishing in a timely manner. While ..."Oh, is Slow Regard that bad?
So, you won't be reading book three?
Matt wrote: "I respectfully disagree, I love waiting and anticipating new books to come out! I reallllllly wish I had nt become tool cool for Harry Potter after book 4 though. I went through a long dark age in ..."
Glad to be disagreed with ;-)
You either love it or hate it, generally speaking. Here is why it made me angry - in the forward and afterward he is extremely overt in his assertion that this book is only for the special snowflakes of the world. Meaning - if you don't like this - you are not special and don't "get it." That is the height of pretension but also shows a real lack of confidence. If you really thought it was good - you wouldn't need to guilt people into liking it. Books are supposed to be subjective. No one should feel like anything is a must like - even if it's literary cannon. So my question to those that liked the book is - did you really or did you feel like you were supposed to? Never let someone guilt you into liking something. You're just as valued as a reader in my view.
Heather wrote: "You either love it or hate it, generally speaking. Here is why it made me angry - in the forward and afterward he is extremely overt in his assertion that this book is only for the special snowflak..."I have just become your fan!
I really really liked Slow Regard. I generally skip forwards and afterwards so I didn't know anything about his opinion on it until someone else commented on it. When I went back and read them it made me like Rothfuss less but didn't impact my enjoyment of the story. I have started reading read less unfinished series unless they are group reads. I have 60 something series that I started reading and haven't finished. About half are ongoing series so I can always find something else to read.
That being said I would love it if Rothfuss and Martin would finish their series as they are a cut above the rest IMO and I would love to see how their stories end.
I don't know if this is relevant to discussion, but I listened to the author read the book. He read it in a - reading to a kid - voice. There is a lot of repetitive phrases ("but no") and clunky alliteration in this story, which always is bad news for audio books. I've also had friends who liked it said they read it in very small portions, which maybe would increase enjoyment. So if you want to check it out, definitely don't do audio book and read in small portions.
I really want to be on board with Rothfuss as we are from the same city!
I personally have been so frustrated in this vein that I will no longer start unfinished series either. Dresden is painful to wait for but at least he's producing with some regularity. And they're my favorites to listen to in the universe so I make an exception here.
Wheel of Time became so wordy that he lost me for the reasons others have mentioned - but I was busy making little people anyway so I wandered - it's done now, I've got them but haven't gotten past my stopping place yet - I'm sort of dreading the journey which is a shame. But this one was the first to make me feel aggravated about it.
Rothfuss - sigh - I read the first and liked it - but won't even read the second, as I know I'll have to start over again when it's done. As for the 'tude, well, I don't like it. I think resenting people for wanting to hear the end of your story is a little primadonna-ish - but it's not my place to judge - just my reaction. I avoid reading about him because it's such a turn off.
Same. I refuse to touch an abandoned series. No point reading it.
I like patrick Rothfuss and am willing to wait for good stuff.I enjoyed reading The Slow Regard of Silent things. It was so different from his main series that I didn't have any issues with it.
I just kept thinking the poor thing needed some Psychiatric he;p and medication
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I enjoyed reading The Slow Regard of Silent things. It was so different from his main series that I didn't have any issues with it.
..."
OK, I agree with what you said about Patrick Rothfuss, but come on. Are we going to have to wait 5 to 10 years for the final book (if it's a trilogy). How about splitting the last book into two books and release the first one like say.....tomorrow. Sorry for the rant but I would really like to get on with the story.
I dont even feel bad because the issue with GRR Martin was a LOT worse. After 5 years, he finally published A Feast for Crows, saying that it had gotten too big, so he was putting half the viewpoints in one book, and half in another to be published shortly...Of course, we found out it wasn't written at all, he was having horrible writers block, etc, etc, and the 2nd part did not get published for 6 more years! its already been almost 5 years since then, so we can see it will be a VERY long time before it is finished :(
This is a dilemma I've never understood. I'm involved in several series right now, many o f them are ongoing like: Gentlemen Bastards, Kingkiller, Stormlight (and basically every other Sanderson series), Temeraire, and others and I've never found myself tapping my foot for the next book. This has nothing to do with dislike. Those I named are also some of my favorite reads. I just don't feel like I'm awaiting the payout of some investment, as some have put it. I enjoy each book for its own sake and happily reread each book without concern for the conclusion of the series. I am certainly pleased when I have more books in a series to read, but I don't understand the importance of having an official ending by the author.
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Dustin in some ways what you say is true but (I am only speaking for myself when I say this) I sometimes forget some important elements of the storyline when I have to wait so long. I have such a large list of other books I want to get to that it's not practical for me to go back and re-read the series. This is especially true when they are massive tomes. With that being said, it's like Christmas in some ways waiting for a book. Hence, the impatience. ; )
It's pretty awesome to find a great series that's already completed, I won't lie. I'm so glad Malazan was done by the time I got to it so I only had to wait as long as I wanted. Having said that, I don't avoid unfinished series. If I did, I would have missed out on a lot of great stuff.
In defending Rothfuss, I will say that it's pretty sad seeing how the guy can't make a post on FB or a review on GR without at least one person trashing him for not finishing his series. Like the guy can't have other things going on in his life. Has two kids, runs a charity, goes to events, etc. I love his books and desperately want to read the last but I don't feel he "owes" his readers anything. Feel that's a pretty selfish view to have.
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I always promise myself I won't start an unfinished series again, but then I end up doing it anyway, lol.Currently I am busy with:
The Stormlight Archive
Demon Cycle
Fitz & the Fool
The Lightbringer
Song of Ice and Fire
As to those that feel writers don't "owe" readers anything, well this from Brandon Sanderson when asked what keeps him going (motivates him):
"What keeps me going? This has changed over the years. At first, it was a desire to prove myself, and to make a living doing this thing I love. Eventually, it has transitioned into a feeling of obligation to the readers mixed with a desire to see these stories in my head told"
A writer that (at least seemingly) respects and cares about his readers.
While it can be exasperating waiting for a series to finish, it doesn't stop me from reading unfinished works. Hell I just started The Kingslayer Chronicles last year. I often take a while to make my way through a series anyway. I rarely read one entry into a series right after reading a previous anyway. Though I will say waiting for A Song of Ice and Fire has frustrated me (especially because I feel a decline in quality with the last two entries) I don't specifically blame Martin, you can only force the creative process so much.With that said, there's nothing like a good stand alone book, or even two or three book series. Knowing there is an end is a comforting feeling.
I don't mind reading series that haven't been finished yet. I don't start on book 1 and then go all out until I finish a series. I read different series at different times, So while I'm waiting on a new book to come out I have other books in other series to read.
I can't wait to read a good book simply because the series is not yet complete. You end up waiting anyways, and book series take a long time to be published in their entirety. For instance, the Harry Potter series took a decade to be fully released, and Game of Thrones came out in 1996; twenty years and its still going.
What about series with planned release dates that are 6 months apart? Would you then?
I call it the “Jordan rule” which states - never start a series until the entire series is released lest you get screwed like Robert Jordan screwed us all.There is plenty to read - I’ll wait until the entire series is released.
Different for everyone, that’s just how I do it.
Even if the author commits to the intervals with dates and titles? ;)
Callum wrote: "I can't wait to read a good book simply because the series is not yet complete. You end up waiting anyways, and book series take a long time to be published in their entirety. For instance, the Har..."I agree. Actually, it's often half the fun. We started reading the Harry Potter series shortly after it came out. I'd preorder the next from Amazon & it would arrive on the door step with everyone drooling to read it. Since I bought it & am the fastest reader, I usually got first crack at it, but if I was busy, one of the kids was especially good, or the wife was especially low, letting one of them go first was the perfect gift.
We started reading Eddings' Belgariad series about the time the boys were born & finished it up shortly after the girl was. A lot of memories along with a fair amount of rereading since it had been so long.
I think it's worse when an author takes too long to finish a series because their writing style & even views on the subject change so much. The first 3 books in GoT were big, but moved right along. The last 2 didn't seem to move much at all. He got wordy.
Philip José Farmer wrote the first few books of his World of Tiers series in 1965 - 67. The next came out in 1970 & another followed in 1977. They weren't bad, but weren't as satisfying. Then over a decade when by before the last 2 came out in the early 90s & his style had completely changed. One was just awful, the other completely unsatisfying.
Gordon R. Dickson's Dorsai series started in 1960 & the last book was published in 2007, 5 or so years after he died. He kept it together better than Farmer, but it still wasn't the same.
People change over time & that affects the writing. A lot of times, the elements that I treasure in a series often seem to get lost as the author matures.
While I enjoy reading a whole series together, I won't wait for an author to finish the entire series to read it. I don't have the willpower...LOLI agree that it gets frustrating waiting for the next book, especially if it's a year or more, but I prefer that the author take the time they need to make the book great. I don't want to be disappointed by a book that was rushed. The disappointment is compounded when I loved the first book, and the second was obviously a race to the publishing deadline.
I think Neil Gaiman said it best, though:http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05...
Originally this post was called "George Martin is not your Bitch"...he must have gotten some crap for that....lol
It boils down to really, its our problem if a book isnt out when we'd like to read it. So I understand why some people just wouldnt get started!
Maggie wrote: "I think Neil Gaiman said it best, though:http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05...
Originally this post was called "George Martin is not your Bitch"...he must have gotten som..."
I read this when it came out.
So, GRRM isn't my bitch - but I'm also not his. I only buy series books from authors i can trust. Ilona Andrews. K.B. Wagers, John Scalzi - Even Mercedes Lackey. But GRRM? (and authors like him) He can't be trusted.
I've been hit with series books that end on cliff hangers and that are never finished. I'm done.
I consider myself blessed in this regard. I was never obsessed with fictional stories to the point where I'd reread a book a gazillion times or be mortified that the next installment of a series will come out in 2-3 years. I'll feel sad for five minutes then pick up another book. More often than not I actually NEED a break from a series.
If I think the book is worth it, I can wait.Though I am not sure if starting Stormlight Archive was such a good idea because even if Sanderson still writes fast and regularly, the end is in many years and I will probably forget a lot of the plot.
The only book I am really waiting for is the 2nd book of another series written by Sanderson. Now four years since first book was released.
Otherwise I am lucky I am not invested into other ongoing series. I really enjoyed the two first books of the Enderverse but the other books aren't really good. I read the Name of the Wind but didn't find it very satisfying so I am delaying reading book 2 until book 3 is announced... or maybe I will first wait for the reviews of book 3.
It can be fun to read a new book as the same time than lot of people and then to recommend it.
idiffer wrote: "I was never obsessed with fictional stories to the point where I'd reread a book a gazillion times or be mortified that the next installment of a series will come out in 2-3 years. I'll feel sad for five minutes then pick up another book. "I think I'm like this myself. There are plenty of books out there, so I'll just read whatever book that interests me at the moment and don't think too much about unpublished installments.
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Tnkw01 wrote: "I'm a little disappointed with Patrick Rothfuss because the first two books in the Kingkiller series seemed to have come out relatively closer together. Then I realized that with th..."I used to be a little impatient waiting for Winds of Winter and Doors of Stone, but the more I thought about it I realized I'd rather wait a long time for a finished product that the author is happy with-rather than get something that's rushed and unrefined. And when we do finally get them, the wait should be well worth it (hopefully). And as others have said, there's so much out there to fill in while we wait. Plus it's nice to have something big to look forward to, there's nothing like experiencing a good book for the first time :).
I've been reading too long and I'm too old to play those games, lol.Jean Auel, for example. IDK...I think it took her over 30+ years to finish her series. I stopped reading her in HIGH SCHOOL. She just finished it up about 2 years ago... but I ain't tellin' y'all how long I've been out of HS.
So, there are close to 1 Million books traditionally published on a yearly basis in the US alone. My TBR is bigger than I. In fact, my TBR has been dubbed Mt. TBR and it's a bitch to climb because I've reached SABLE*. I have found that - even without GRRM, Gaiman, Rothfuss, etc - I'm getting some excellent reads.
So, I never feel like "Oh, waiting forever for a good book is worth it!" I always feel like, "If you finish it up before I die, I'll take a gander and see if I like."
There are just too many great authors with great stories to tell - and who write at a pace that allows them to finish before they croak.
*SABLE: Stash Acquired Beyond Life Expectancy
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Jean Auel, for example. IDK...I think it took her over 30+ years to finish her series. I stopped reading her in HIGH SCHOOL. Sh..."
Mrs. Joseph this was eloquently written. Hard to argue with it.
MrsJoseph wrote: "I've been reading too long and I'm too old to play those games, lol.Jean Auel, for example. IDK...I think it took her over 30+ years to finish her series. I stopped reading her in HIGH SCHOOL. Sh..."
SABLE, haha, I love that- I am well on my way to that.
Alice wrote: "Tnkw01 wrote: "I'm a little disappointed with Patrick Rothfuss because the first two books in the Kingkiller series seemed to have come out relatively closer together. Then I realiz..."My problem is that there are so many good books to read and I can't support an author who takes years to write his books when I have to reread the series if I want to remember that first book...
Kevin wrote: "Alice wrote: "Tnkw01 wrote: "I'm a little disappointed with Patrick Rothfuss because the first two books in the Kingkiller series seemed to have come out relatively closer together...."Yeah, especially if it's been 5+ years. I usually reread books regardless (if they're good), especially the very long detailed series, because I'll miss certain things or just forget, but I love jumping back into other worlds. At this point I've come to terms with waiting, I think I just love reading too much to really get mad at an author. Every author has their process for writing, and it's not my place to really hound them- maybe I'm too nice, (if I was a writer it would probably take me ages to finish a book, I would be too concerned about giving the reader a half-assed story-I would go through every detail to make sure it doesn't completely suck). I say that now tho, if I end up having to wait 20 years for Doors of Stone I might start getting impatient again.
Mark wrote: "I immortalized(ish) this thread in a blog post ."Wow, an author sighting. I was just talking about prince of thorns like an hour ago. Btw, thank you for making it only 3 books.
A quote from J.C Keely's 2007 review of game of thrones.But first a link, because the man is a genius.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Don't know if this is true now, but here is what he had to say about fantasy series:
However, there is one thing Martin has done that no other author has been able to do: kill the longrunning High Fantasy series. According to some friends of mine in publishing (and some on-the-nose remarks by Caleb Carr in an NPR interview on his own foray into fantasy), Martin's inability to deliver a book on time, combined with his strained relationship with his publisher means that literary agents are no longer accepting manuscripts for high fantasy series--even from recognized authors. Apparently, Martin is so bad at plot structure that he actually pre-emptively ruined books by other authors. Perhaps it is true what they say about silver linings . . .
Mark wrote: "I immortalized(ish) this thread in a blog post ."The blog post says: "The phenomenon of series being dumped by publishers is much more common in the translation market where the overheads of translating say Prince of Thorns into Spanish mean that each book is more of a financial gamble for the publisher."
This is also true here in Indonesia. There are plenty of unfinished translations of fantasy series here.
Femmy wrote: "Mark wrote: "I immortalized(ish) this thread in a blog post ."The blog post says: "The phenomenon of series being dumped by publishers is much more common in the translation market where the over..."
I think the Broken Empire trilogy is one of them. In some countries it soars and in some it sinks.
Whether it is the quality of the translation, local tastes, marketing, or some other factor I don't know. My second trilogy is coming out in Portugal, my third trilogy is coming out in France, while Spain only got Prince of Thorns. You can step from Portugal or France into Spain...
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But first a link, because the man is a genius.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Don'..."
While J.C. Keely writes some great reviews I have a problem with someone who avoids books because of "what he has heard" or "what the author says". Give them a chance. I believe Keely should at least read the The Way of Kings before dismissing Brandon Sanderson for silly, irrelevant reasons. Everyone is entitled to there opinion because everyone has different tastes but don't let someone else tell you what you tastes should be.
Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Red Rising (other topics)Pawn of Prophecy (other topics)
The Way of Kings (other topics)
A Game of Thrones (other topics)
A Feast for Crows (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Laurell K. Hamilton (other topics)Brandon Sanderson (other topics)
Patrick Rothfuss (other topics)
Patrick Rothfuss (other topics)
Patrick Rothfuss (other topics)
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I get that.
It's very atypical (to my mind) for a fantasy series, and, while I loved it, a number of my friends never made it past the first book.
And the structure is somethwat offputting, too.(Books 1 +3 are one arc, 2 + 4 are another, and then the third arc and merging begins in Book 5, though I foind you're best off reading them int he order they were published.)