No one buys books, the state of the publishing industry

[Hank, Hankenstein's Modster]

We have several publishers lurking around in this group and this probably is not news to them but I found some of the numbers eye-opening and how the publishing houses are similar to venture capitalists. A somewhat long read but, here you are.

https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-bu...

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I only skimmed part of the article… but it sorta seems to me like they are all saying “we spend all our money on celebrity advances” and then also saying that even Justin Timberlake doesn’t sell that well..like Celebrity status doesn’t guarantee book sales.

So like… let’s stop publishing celebrity memoirs? 😂

Invest more money on advertising for other books?! Come up with better ways to advertise books? We all know what TikTok does for certain kinds of books, what is the dollar level investment of a TikTok ad/campaign? I can’t imagine it’s that high.

It seems ridiculous to me that their entire strategy is to buy books with a pre-existing audience, and/or rely on author’s name/fame level to sell their books for them. Just to cover the cost of publishing other books they market minimally and cross their fingers one of them is the next 50 Shades of Gray.

ETA: I’ve never sold a book in my life, so what do I know, just seems like times are changing and if they are relying on authors with built in audiences when the cost of self publishing is relatively cheap and becoming less stigmatized, publishing houses are bound to die out sooner or later if they don’t change their methods.

[[deleted user]]

There is also another major factor at play here: the ready availability of reading material online, for free. Before the Internet, people who wanted information about specific subjects, like news, scientific discoveries, documentaries about the World and its people, technology, or wanted to read works of fiction (sci-fi, romance, drama, action, etc.) had no choice but either buy books, magazines or newspapers. Now, you can find everything online, or can buy ebooks online from Amazon or other electronic publishers. Furthermore, if you are after educational, technical or scientific information, you will have the latest and most update info at once for free, online. Books as receptacles of the latest knowledge are simply obsolescent, unless you talk about school/college teaching books. The kind of printed books which may survive in the long term are things like school books (again), picture books (photography, nature, etc.) or frequently used travel books (touristic guides, bibles, prayer books, map books and the like). As for fiction works and recent scientific/technical findings manuals, the future is clearly either ebooks or the Internet. I predict that most publishing houses will switch to an electronic format rather than paper in the coming decades.

[Hank, Hankenstein's Modster]

It does seem weird to me that they are all looking for the home run. One of the stats

"The DOJ’s lawyer collected data on 58,000 titles published in a year and discovered that 90 percent of them sold fewer than 2,000 copies and 50 percent sold less than a dozen copies. "

Seems to support your point Sarah, maybe putting a bit more effort into those lesser selling books could make some small profits.

[Stephen]

Sarah wrote: "I only skimmed part of the article… but it sorta seems to me like they are all saying “we spend all our money on celebrity advances” and then also saying that even Justin Timberlake doesn’t sell th..."

Timberlake apparently sold only about 100,000 copies.

[Brett]

FWIW, a lot of political, ghost-written books are bought in bulk by the super rich so that they make bestseller lists.

[Leonie]

Hank wrote: "We have several publishers lurking around in this group and this probably is not news to them but I found some of the numbers eye-opening and how the publishing houses are similar to venture capita..."

Wow...

It actually sounds like celebrity publishing could be the death knell of the trad publishing industry (if only they could see it) and so switching to:

1. Taking a punt on newer authors (who would potentially then become backlist authors)

2. Looking for originality

3. Smaller, but more frequent advances for people who might actually earn them out with a bit of publicity assistance

Might save them. But what would we readers know?

[DivaDiane]

I was thinking exactly the same thing as Sarah and agree with Meredith. I’d be interested in the stats for the SpecFic Market specifically. I bet it looks ways different.

Do any of you read those celebrity memoirs? I will read one occasionally, case in point, I’ve listened to memoirs by Kate Mulgrew, Leonard Nimoy, William Shatner, and Carrie Fisher. I also have several actually on my shelves that I got at used book stores, but, while they are fun, I’m sure I could live without them.

[Anna]

I've only ever paid money for exactly one memoir type book and I could've lived without that one, too. I have listened to a couple more from "free" sources (library, subscription service, podcast, etc.) because I like listening to a person narrating their own story. I've listened to some by people I don't even know, just because they happened to be available when I was looking for an audiobook :D Would I rather see that publishing money go towards fiction or other types of non-fiction? Absolutely.

[Raucous]

I've started a few that my partner has gotten, but I never get more than 10% or so into them before I've read enough. I don't think that I've ever purchased one myself - not even for the few celebrities that I personally know.

[Becky]

I enjoy memoirs, celebrity variety included. I’m listening to one right now actually (Making It So: A Memoir). But I 100% agree that they shouldn’t be given astronomical advances for them and that money should be invested elsewhere.

That being said, I don’t buy books anymore at all, with the exception of my Audible subscription, which I justify by the fact that it’s steeply discounted off retail, and I use it for cases where I absolutely cannot find the book free from any library.

Personally, if publishers did their own subscription service, I would be tempted. I like KU in theory, but it rarely has much I want to read. Now I know why!

[Stephen]

I read the odd rock star memoir, mainly by writers/performers I used to like. X-Ray: The Unauthorized Autobiography was good on the madness of that kind of celebrity in the ‘60s.

Most if not all of us in here are untypical, passionate readers. I still buy books all the time, while desperately trying to make some impact on the TBR backlog.

[CBRetriever]

Becky wrote: "Personally, if publishers did their own subscription service, I would be tempted. I like KU in theory, but it rarely has much I want to read. Now I know why!"

that's been pretty obvious for years and is why I don't subscribe to KU. However, I like Amazon's publishing arm, AmazonCrossings, for their commitment to translating and publishing books by authors from other countries. like

The Hangman's Daughter by Oliver Pötzsch and the rest of the series
Viveca Sten's mystery books
Leena Lehtolainen's mystery/thriller books

they're now the number one publisher of works translated into English

[Becky]

CBRetriever wrote: "Becky wrote: "Personally, if publishers did their own subscription service, I would be tempted. I like KU in theory, but it rarely has much I want to read. Now I know why!"

that's been pretty obvious for years and is why I don't subscribe to KU."

I don't follow publishing, and almost never spend any time browsing or digging through the KU offerings, so it wasn't obvious to me.

I've used KU on and off for a few years now (usually when they offer me a free trial period), but usually only use it for books I find via GR that indicate it's free via KU. Goodreads is my source for finding books I'm interested in, and then I determine where they are available from there. I've just observed that the vast majority are not available via KU. Coincidentally, I saw an ad on youtube last night for a movie adaptation, and when I looked it up on GR, I found that it is on KU. Go figure.

[Michelle]

DivaDiane wrote: "I was thinking exactly the same thing as Sarah and agree with Meredith. I’d be interested in the stats for the SpecFic Market specifically. I bet it looks ways different.

Do any of you read those..."

I've only read memoirs from William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Debbie Harry and Phil Collins. I'm not much of a memoir person.

[Ryan]

Hank wrote: "It does seem weird to me that they are all looking for the home run. One of the stats

"The DOJ’s lawyer collected data on 58,000 titles published in a year and discovered that 90 percent of them ..."

Someone hasn't read Blockbusters: Why Big Hits - and Big Risks - are the Future of the Entertainment Business by Elberse, Anita (2014) Paperback :) It's pretty dated now and The Trial: The DOJ's Suit to Block Penguin Random House's Acquisition of Simon & Schuster no doubt has more recent data about the industries struggles but I like Blockbusters for how it shows this strategy is common across numerous entertainment industries including music, Hollywood, and sports.

A justification that Blockbusters makes for this decision is that most people don't read that many books or watch that many movies. And if you're only going to engage with ten or less books/movies/whatever a year then chances are you're going to pick the ones with the most buzz. The fear of missing out playing a role there.

NBC Universal, who were the highest rated TV network back in 2007, tried going against this strategy and dropped to fourth place in all metrics by 2010. Heads rolled.

I'd be interested in reading The Trial for more recent (and relevant to my interests) data but they need to release an ebook and drop the price considerably.

Interesting (to me) excerpts from Blockbusters

(view spoiler)[
Take the music industry. According to Nielsen, which collects recorded-music sales information, of the eight million unique digital tracks sold in 2011 (the large majority for $0.99 or $1.29 through the iTunes Store), 94 percent—7.5 million tracks—sold fewer than one hundred units, and an astonishing 32 percent sold only one copy. Yes, that’s right: of all the tracks that sold at least one copy, about a third sold exactly one copy. (One has to wonder how many of those songs were purchased by the artists themselves, just to test the technology, or perhaps by their moms out of a sense of loyalty.) (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[In the book-publishing industry, Amanda Hocking made a similar choice. Described as “the darling of the self-publishing industry,” the Minnesota native started writing when she was seventeen. Eight years later, in 2010, while working full-time in an $18,000-a-year job, she began selling her young-adult paranormal and dystopian novels online. She undertook this effort without the help of a traditional publisher; instead, she worked directly with retailers such as Amazon and Barnes & Noble’s BN.com. By 2011, she had seven books on USA Today’s bestsellers list and had sold over a million copies of her books, priced between $0.99 and $2.99. Held up as an example of an author who had shrewdly circumvented the established publishing industry and promoted her novels via social media and blogs, she became only the second self-published author to sell more than a million e-books through Amazon’s Kindle Store. And yet, that same year, she shopped a new four-book paranormal series, Watersong, to major publishers, eventually signing with St. Martin’s Press, an imprint of major publisher Macmillan. Why? Hocking’s explanation boils down to a desire to have St. Martin’s carry out the kinds of channel functions that publishers traditionally perform, thus allowing her to focus on what she enjoys doing. “I want to be a writer,” she wrote in her blog not long after the deal was announced. “I do not want to spend 40 hours a week handling e-mails, formatting covers, finding editors, etc. Right now, being me is a full-time corporation.” She added: “I don’t think people really grasp how much work I do. I think there is this very big misconception that I was like, ‘Hey, paranormal is pretty hot right now,’ and then I spent a weekend smashing out some words, threw it up online, and woke up the next day with a million dollars in my bank account.… This is literally years of work you’re seeing. And hours and hours of work each day. The amount of time and energy I put into marketing is exhausting. I am continuously overwhelmed by the amount of work I have to do that isn’t writing a book. I hardly have time to write anymore, which sucks and terrifies me.” Self-publishing is “easier to get into but harder to maintain,” she wrote. “It may be easier to self-publish than it is to traditionally publish, but in all honesty, it’s harder to be a best seller self-publishing than it is with a house.” (hide spoiler)]

[Ryan]

Allison and I have spoken many times about the publishing industries struggles, though it's often me complaining about how it doesn't cater to my tastes or that people, myself included, don't actually know how to sell books. I'd love to talk with people in the industry (who aren't authors) to learn more.

[Kateb]

Michel wrote: "There is also another major factor at play here: the ready availability of reading material online, for free. Before the Internet, people who wanted information about specific subjects, like news, ..."

I am in my 70's , so when i first started reading and could afford things i bought paper books. move forward until kindle came out. I had to buy the ebooks or borrow from the library, I was always suspicious of ebooks , what if technology moved on and all those ebooks I bought no longer could be read. I decided to reduce my 900 book personal library to ones I really valued. So down to 400.
Then my uncle of 96 found he was having problems remembering how to access his kindle. aaahhhhhh. So I will keep my paper books and maybe buy those books I enjoy re reading . after all he is having trouble with his laptop now as well and I have to remote access it to put books on his kindle
Maybe there is a place for paper books ha ha ha

[Michelle]

My eyesight has deteriorated over time, (I'm in my mid-fifties), so I switched to ebooks because they're easier to read. I can change the font, backlighting, coloring and font size. But if I really love an ebook, I always buy the physical copy. I have a home library of 2200 or so books that my son will inherit when I'm gone. He's the only one of our kids and grandchildren that shares the same bookish tastes as mine. I can't be the only consumer that buys a title twice since it's in two separate formats.

[Kateb]

nope, you are not the only one. I have all my paper books as ebooks. Then again i congratulate you on a son that loves your type of books. My hubby is dyslexic , every one of our children and grandchildren are also dyslexic and dont really enjoy reading. They will use audio books only. I have a nephew who has expressed some interest, sighhhhh

[Michelle]

Kateb wrote: "nope, you are not the only one. I have all my paper books as ebooks. Then again i congratulate you on a son that loves your type of books. My hubby is dyslexic , every one of our children and grand..."

Oh, that's a bummer, Kateb!! But here in one conversational thread are two consumers that purchase two versions of the same book. The publishers are making money out the wazoo!

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Michelle wrote: "Kateb wrote: "nope, you are not the only one. I have all my paper books as ebooks. Then again i congratulate you on a son that loves your type of books. My hubby is dyslexic , every one of our chil..."

Three! Although most of the time when I buy a book I already own it’s because I’ve forgotten I own it. lol.

But I agree with what Stephen said, this group doesn’t really count as the buyers publishers are referring to.. I guess in order to profit they have to appeal to the “every-person.”

[Michelle]

Sarah, I've done that, too 😂 You know we have a lot of books when we buy something we already have!

[Raucous]

Michelle wrote: "Sarah, I've done that, too 😂 You know we have a lot of books when we buy something we already have!"

When my partner and I combined libraries we found many, many duplicates. I guess that it was meant to be...

Now that we're both in our 70s we almost exclusively read eBooks as well. At least I understand better now the attraction of the racks of "large print" books that I used to see in big box bookstores. I'm very glad that we're not limited to those and also that the state library system has such a robust ebook and audiobook lending program.

[CBRetriever]

Raucous wrote: "At least I understand better now the attraction of the racks of "large print" books that I used to see in big box bookstores. I'm very glad that we're not limited to those"

I remember my grandmother had trouble finding any large print books back in the 60s and 70s. Kindle and other digital formats have opened up the world of books again for older people.

[Leonie]

I rarely read a memoir, and nowadays I do tend to read eBooks, but I do also buy paperbacks or hardbacks of things I love.

Interestingly, both our kids prefer paper books to eBooks. (They're late twenties/early thirties.)

[AndrewP]

Brett wrote: "FWIW, a lot of political, ghost-written books are bought in bulk by the super rich so that they make bestseller lists."

I believe political parties also buy these books in bulk at a discount, pump up sales, then sell them at rallies and conventions for a profit. Most of them end up in the bargain bins at discount stores.

[Brett]

@AndrewP - I see them in Goodwill all the time.

[Cheryl]

Brett wrote: "FWIW, a lot of political, ghost-written books are bought in bulk by the super rich so that they make bestseller lists."
Eww. Sounds like a conspiracy theory, but also sounds awfully plausible.

[Cheryl]

After I read the response thread to this I finally read the original article. I wrote a response, then saw that I needed to subscribe to post it. Well, just in case anyone is interested, this is what I wrote:

1. The most "dedicated readers" don't buy very many books. We couldn't afford to. We use libraries. Always have.
2. Look at the reports of the number of people who rate each title on Goodreads. There are a lot of titles that have just several thousands of writers (and of course there are a lot of people who don't use Goodreads to rate books).
3. Any statistic given above must mention what it's measuring. Early in the article it says something like 98% don't sell even 1K. But does that include the ones not published by the Big Five? Late in the article it says that the publishers are scared of Kindle Unlimited... which is where the indies get published, no? It appears that they're comparing apples to oranges.
3b. Comparing print books to ebooks is another apples to oranges. Be wary of several of the statistics above.
4. A lot of dedicated readers still don't like to read digital books.
5. Libraries are like free Netflix. And they have books in all formats, and movies, and music. Our taxes pay the publishers (and staff, utilities, etc.).

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

Rick has posted a response to this article here:

Yes, People do buy books

[David]

Cheryl wrote: "After I read the response thread to this I finally read the original article. I wrote a response, then saw that I needed to subscribe to post it. Well, just in case anyone is interested, this is wh..."

Not sure how many books you qualify for "dedicated reader" but I am always reading a least one book. I, for one, always buy my books. I am fortunate to have the means, but I like to have the books to reread or peruse (even in e-form). Buying a book puts a few shekels in the hands of authors I like.

[Cheryl]

Well, I read over a thousand books a year. But no, I have no idea what the definition in the article is... so, another undefined term means another weakness in the argument.

[David]

Cheryl wrote: "Well, I read over a thousand books a year. But no, I have no idea what the definition in the article is... so, another undefined term means another weakness in the argument."

"Three books a day every day," he said bemusedly.

[CBRetriever]

dedicated reader here who reads from 200-300 books per year who does not use a library. I read daily for at least an hour and usually more.

I want to keep my books and I re-read frequently so I've segued into buying ebooks and can easily carry my 2734 Kindle books and 1057 ebooks from other sources in one hand. So, a lot of dedicated readers do like ebooks and audiobooks

[Beth]

Michelle wrote: "But here in one conversational thread are two consumers that purchase two versions of the same book."

I have a very small number of books in three formats: paper, ebook, and audio. A larger number in two formats. And a much, much larger number in just one.

I'm sure that the Blockbuster book that Ryan mentioned talks about this, that corporations rely on their stock numbers consistently going up. There are only so many ways that can happen. Selling a lot of a small number of movies, books, etc entails paying fewer creators.

Social and other digital media has diffused the per-entertainer audience attention on movie stars and other "traditional" celebrities. Maybe that's why some memoirs aren't selling as much.

[Kateb]

i read 2 to 3 books a day. I use the library to source new authors, then if i like the book i often buy it. Since i use a kindle a lot then I buy an ebook, but often will also buy a paper book . It seems the stats on this article are a bit skewed
BUt what about the 300 books a relative left me of all the old science and fantasy authors. i am slowly going through them and some of the older books are fantastic. eg DUNE was written years ago.

[[deleted user]]

People still read often enough, but I believe that they do a lot of their reading on the Internet. The Internet has the advantage on printed books that it is constantly updating the information it contains, while what a book says may become obsolete within years. Books on astronomy are a good example of that. Of course, fictional stories are another matter and survive better as printed books.

[CBRetriever]

Kateb wrote: "BUt what about the 300 books a relative left me of all the old science and fantasy authors. i am slowly going through them and some of the older books are fantastic. eg DUNE was written years ago."

I love a lot of the older books myself, but then I was reading adult books by age 9 (this would have been 1960-61), so I did read a lot of them. My mother even arranged with the library to let me have the privilege of checking out adult books.

[Kateb]

we seem so similar. i was reading adult books at that age ( i was born 1950) and my mother organised for me to be allowed into the adult library. My first sci fi was a new author called Issac Asimov

i wonder if anyone counts magazines as well as books , I get a few science journals and IT books as well as reading fiction

[CBRetriever]

Kateb wrote: "we seem so similar. i was reading adult books at that age ( i was born 1950) and my mother organised for me to be allowed into the adult library. My first sci fi was a new author called Issac Asimo..."

1951 here. I count non-fiction books and I've used cookbooks in challenges where a hardcopy book was specified. I'd pick one that had a lot of filler/anecdotes between the recipes.

[Kateb]

mmmm you beat me there i dont cook, my hubby does most of it, i sometimes cook a steak and chips

i worked full time for 44 years, had 4 children in that time, My hubby decided that his share of housework would be cooking and grocery shopping.

now we have retired he still takes over these chores, but insists i do lots of other things ha ha ha

my kids always check who is cooking before they come for dinner. But all my kids are great cooks, must have been my influence

[Glenn]

I don't think we're buying less books. We are, however, buying less books from mainstream publishers. Independent authors, like myself, have found and fostered our own audience online and we're taking a huge portion of the market. Funny to see this only briefly mentioned towards the end of the article.
Independent media in all forms is on the rise, and the bigger companies are feeling the pinch.
Consumers, on the other hand, are getting more choices on how to use their dollar.

[Cheryl]

Glenn, that's a good summary of an important point, thanks.

[Shomeret]

I am buying more books lately, and they are from the bookstore I pass on the way back from a library. They have titles that interest me in the window, and I buy them. They are usually non-fiction, but not celebrity memoirs. I don't read celebrity memoirs.

[CBRetriever]

good rebuttal to this article in Slate Magazine today:

https://slate.com/culture/2024/04/boo...

[[deleted user]]

CBRetriever wrote: "good rebuttal to this article in Slate Magazine today:

https://slate.com/culture/2024/04/boo..."

An interesting read.

[Ryan]

Why do you buy specific books and what does the publishing industry do to positively influence how you spend your money?

[Becky]

Ryan wrote: "Why do you buy specific books and what does the publishing industry do to positively influence how you spend your money?"

I will only buy digital books new these days, and only when I really want them, AND they are not available free via the library or "free" through KU, or some other method.

I only buy NEW physical books as gifts for other people (usually my nephew).

I used to buy physical "shelf trophies" of the books I really loved, and still read them on my kindle - but I would say 80% of the physical books I have ever bought are used from used book stores or thrift stores, 10% are "New" remainder stock from overstock stores like Ollies, and 10% actual new books from retail stores.

And since I'm downsizing my library, I'm actually selling a lot of my physical library on PangoBooks, so I won't be buying new physical books except in very rare cases.

As far as what publishers can do to positively influence me - publish books I want to read and make them available in all formats, to libraries in particular.

[[deleted user]]

I buy specific books, mostly about history, technology and the military, as ready-to-use reference books I can use when doing research for a new novel I am planning to write. Since most of the action in my novels happen in the past (both recent and ancient), having the latest available knowledge is not as critical for my research, since the most updated info can be gained from the Internet for free. Having a readily available map or bio info from places and persons from the past is for me the main reason to keep a well-padded library of printed books.