Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
FORBIDDEN HISTORY OF THE BIBLE
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The GNOSTIC Dead Sea Scrolls (and the Nag Hammadi)

Just think, there were probably thousands of Gnostic texts in the Alexandrian Library alone.
I think this is a good book about the Dead Sea Scrolls for an overview/layman's point of view: The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception

I personally also think it's very likely that the 'ruling elite' of the day would have held on to good copies of any 'true religion' type texts.
-Which could easily play a part into the history of secret societies where 'secret religion' is often at their very heart- such as 33rd degree Freemasonry and its ancient Egypt connection for example.
Did 'The Hidden Elite' give the world a watered down bullshit version of a religion/spiritual truth they kept for themselves?
After all, we know Jesus only told people parables, keeping his inner secrets for his disciples, whom he taught to perform miracles such as healing and raising the dead. Perhaps ancient lost texts were nothing more than instruction books of the day.

I personally also think it's very likely that the 'ruling elite' of the day would have held on to good copies of any 'true religion' type texts ..."
Well there are theories that the most classified section of the Vatican archives has all the lost religious texts...texts that would end their religion if released...
But Krishna's theory could also be true: Theosis at its most advanced levels could lead to superhuman powers and maybe the masses couldn't handle that.
And yeah, I also think we the common people got given a BS watered down version of religion/spiritual truths.
It's also interesting to me that some of the terms Masons use, and some of their rituals, are said to be extremely similar to the Gnositic rituals and protocols for Theosis.

"These twelve (his disciples) Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, (...) 'Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils..."
(Matthew 10:8)

This is why his nickname is Mad Harry...


The Dead Sea Scrolls

The Dead Sea Scrolls

The Dead Sea Scriptures

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible




Of more interest, I think, are the texts from Nag Hammadi. That's a bit of a gnostic treasure trove and sheds a very different light on early Christian beliefs.

Of more interest, I thin..."
Hi Robert, Even though I forgot to specify the Nag Hammadi, I was including them in the whole picture.
So I'm glad you mentioned the Nag Hammadi.
Also, even if 40% of the Dead Sea Scrolls are close matches to the known canonical texts, that still leaves about 600 other texts which are not...and those other texts present a much deeper and complex faith that has previously been known (in my opinion).

One example of this is polytheistic religions like in Egypt. The esoteric understanding is that all the gods were really aspects of the one god. The common people didn't make that distinction. They prayed to one god for rain or a good harvest or whatever and another to have a healthy childbirth, etc.
At some point, the esoteric parts started getting repressed. That came into full flower when Christianity achieved power in the Roman Empire but it started earlier. I suspect it was because there was a crossover between the mysteries and political activism, much like Freemasonry and similar groups. Rome would have been threatened by groups like the Sicarii who were hiding amongst the Nazorites and other mystery groups.

A nice summing up well put, Jim. :)


I'd guess you're at least very close to the truth with that summary.

The Gnostic Gospels is a landmark study of the long-buried roots of Christianity, a work of luminous scholarship and wide popular appeal. First published in 1979 to critical acclaim, winning the National Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award, The Gnostic Gospels has continued to grow in reputation and influence over the past two decades. It is now widely recognized as one of the most brilliant and accessible histories of early Christian spirituality published in our time.
In 1945 an Egyptian peasant unearthed what proved to be the Gnostic Gospels, thirteen papyrus volumes that expounded a radically different view of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ from that of the New Testament. In this spellbinding book, renowned religious scholar Elaine Pagels elucidates the mysteries and meanings of these sacred texts both in the world of the first Christians and in the context of Christianity today.
With insight and passion, Pagels explores a remarkable range of recently discovered gospels, including the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, to show how a variety of “Christianities” emerged at a time of extraordinary spiritual upheaval. Some Christians questioned the need for clergy and church doctrine, and taught that the divine could be discovered through spiritual search. Many others, like Buddhists and Hindus, sought enlightenment — and access to God — within. Such explorations raised questions: Was the resurrection to be understood symbolically and not literally? Was God to be envisioned only in masculine form, or feminine as well? Was martyrdom a necessary — or worthy — expression of faith? These early Christians dared to ask questions that orthodox Christians later suppressed — and their explorations led to profoundly different visions of Jesus and his message.
Brilliant, provocative, and stunning in its implications, The Gnostic Gospels is a radical, eloquent reconsideration of the origins of the Christian faith.






Yes, I've had conversations with some Christian theologians and they call these works "the works of heretics" and imply they have no value whatsoever...

Was the first thing that came to mind!"
Trust you to automatically think of that! ;)

New Dead Sea Scrolls Fragments Found in Judean Desert http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/1....

Basing much of Not in His Image on the Nag Hammadi and other Gnostic writings, John Lamb Lash explains how a little-known messianic sect propelled itself into a dominant world power, systematically wiping out the great Gnostic spiritual teachers, the Druid priests, and the shamanistic healers of Europe and North Africa. They burned libraries and destroyed temples in an attempt to silence the ancient truth-tellers and keep their own secrets. But as Lash reveals, when the truth is the planet Earth it cannot be hidden or destroyed.
Not in His Image delves deeply into the shadows of ancient Gnostic writings to reconstruct the story early Christians tried to scrub from the pages of history, exploring the richness of the ancient European Pagan spirituality--the Pagan Mysteries, the Great Goddess, Gnosis, the myths of Sophia and Gaia--and chronicles the annihilation of this Pagan European culture at the hands of Christianity.
Long before the birth of Christianity, monotheism was an anomaly; Europe and the Near East flourished under the divine guidance of Sophia, the ancient goddess of wisdom. The Earth was the embodiment of Sophia and thus sacred to the people who sought fulfillment in her presence. This ancient philosophy was threatening to the emerging salvation-based creed of Christianity that was based on patriarchal dominion over the Earth and lauded personal suffering as a path to the afterlife. As Derrick Jensen points out in the afterword, in Lash's hands Jesus Christ emerges as the agent provocateur of the ruling classes.


A Crisis of Faith ( The battle of beliefs between the Christian Church and Gnosticism).
Religious history in the Western world has been dominated by the power and doctrinal discipline of the Catholic Church. But, argues Tony Sunderland in his new book, we are not solely products of this tradition, nor of that of its Protestant challengers. Lost in the footnotes of history is the story of the Church’s fascinating heretical counterpart, Gnosticism.
The Gnostics were brutally persecuted and their ideas were suppressed. But their teachings were powerful enough to linger on in the collective unconscious of succeeding generations and to re-emerge in the most unexpected places. From symbols on the American one-dollar bill to the ideals of the 1960s counterculture, from heavy metal music to twenty-first century technological innovations, various facets of Gnostic thought continue to offer us a way to interpret the meaning of our lives. As Sunderland traces the battle between the orthodox and heretical traditions of Christianity, his thorough research and ability to make counterintuitive connections reveal to us a struggle that continues to rage beneath the surface of contemporary life.

p.s. You can follow Tony on his author page here: Tony Sunderland

This issue of the Rosicrucian Digest presents a compendium of materials that provide a solid introduction to the most important aspects of Gnosticism.


New Dead Sea Scroll cave found near Qumran, but scrolls are gone http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-dead...
"Empty storage jars and a scrap of parchment unearthed in dig carried out by Hebrew U, IAA at site apparently looted in the 1940s"

I get the impression that it’s mostly non-Christians who read stuff about the origins of Christianity and the Gnostic texts; which is a bit odd really, because if you want to know more about your beloved Christ, reading the gospels of Judas and Mary etc. will give you a much better idea of what Jesus’ teachings actually were. It’s like saying you’re a massive fan of the Rolling Stones, but you’ve only ever listened to the Greatest Hits and have never heard albums like Sticky Fingers. But I guess most Christians don’t read things like the Nag Hammadi texts and the Dead Sea Scrolls simply because they weren’t included in the Bible (and they bizarrely think the Bible is the actual word of God) which is pretty crazy when we know it was the Council of Nicea and the later Church who decided how to edit the Bible – and from the vast amount of contradictions included in the text, they really could have done with a better proofreader.
Anyway, I digress. I’m not a Christian man myself, but I am spiritual and I’ve always been fascinated by religions/their origins, and more importantly: the gods and spiritual beliefs that came long before the more popular ones like ol’ J.C, such as Osiris and Mithras (both of whom most certainly inspired many of the things we attribute to Christ, but I digress even further).
So, I very much enjoyed reading Tony Sunderland’s book which focuses on the Gnostic beliefs. To be honest, I knew much of what was on offer, but it was still enjoyable to go over such things again; and if you’re new to reading about Gnosticism and the origins of Christianity and the Holy Bible, then you could do much worse than reading this very informative and extremely well written book.
Sunderland has a way of writing that makes possibly complicated things easy to understand, whilst still keeping it within the realms of well-researched academia, where it’s clear that Sunderland has studied this stuff long and hard and knows what he’s talking about. So if you want to learn about Gnosticism, then you should definitely check out this great read.





Gnosticism is what I resonate most with...At least in the Western or Christian-Judaic sphere.


Some view Gnosticism as more pessimistic. They see Gnosticism saying that the world was created by a malevolent force or one that is actively trying to keep us deluded by materialism. Otherwise, the goals and many of the methods are the same.

But gentlemen...if you were baptised in the Catholic faith then we all may well be burned at the stake!
Maybe I've watched too many episodes of the Handmaids tale. Under his eye.

The problem I have with the system is that it has "secrets". It is exclusive non inclusive. As much as I am convinced that Paul really created the Catholic tradition, he did not exclude.
Take this quote from Thomas :These are the hidden words that the living Jesus spoke, and that Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down. And He said: "Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death."
Secrets don't help the people, they are designed to give power to a selected elite. However, well worth studying.

John the Baptist is very underrated and has been buried or overlooked after the Romans rewrote Jesus to be God on Earth instead of a man who advanced by unknown methods...Poor John didn't stand a chance as it's hard to compete against a Godman :)
There are some passages in the Bible and/or Gnostic texts which paint John as equal to Jesus, albeit ambiguously -- so there seem to be traces of the original story and characters before things like sensationalism, cultish thinking, anti-Semitism and other silly things were written into the New Testament (or erased) by the Roman Empire.
So I definitely believe the Mandaeans (as well as the Manichaeans of Persia to a lesser degree) hold many ancient truths and their (translated) text I read tallies with out-of-body experiences I had as a teen (seems to be describing identical altered states of consciousness...and methods to become aware beyond the physical body ala modern remote viewing).
And by the way Tony, the Mandaeans have a big community here in Western Sydney, NSW, and do weekly Gnostic bathing rituals on the banks of the Nepean River near Penrith: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mandaeans-k... )
Anyway, for whatever it's worth, I lean toward the theory that John the Baptist's obsession with water/baptisms was not just a spiritual thing but a scientific one too. As our crude modern science S-L-O-W-L-Y catches up with the Ancients, we are seeing a lot of discoveries around water and how it can be a conduit and carrier and receiver...The research into water of Japanese scientific researcher Masaru Emoto may connect into all this. His book the The Hidden Messages in Water is worth a read. Although if you don't resonate with Emoto, you can read other scientists who are beginning to find out all sorts of crazy things about water and how it has intricate memory and how water can transmit things that have been totally removed from it...
The ancient science of the Early Yehidah faith communities (Nazarenes, Gnostics etc) is the missing link in all this analysis. That's my opinion...according to what I've researched...But more importantly, according to those I've known and learnt from who have studied the Gnostics their entire lives and gained rare knowledge in doing so... I think these early Qumran faith communities held scientific knowledge of advanced methods and technologies... Inherited from whoever built the Pyramids and the like...A residue, but kept within very secretive sects like the The Essenes... And that Jesus and John were not just talking about spiritual purification but also physical/biological transformation involving their secret science...They were aware of the need to have hygiene of the body, the need to have the right diet (including light-enducing foods for the brain), the right physical exercises (like Tai Chi and Yoga), as well as scientific technologies/methods that our modern science is yet to conceive of... Jesus, in particular, was not in my opinion speaking of JUST eternal ethereal life, but also eternal physical life...
To reduce those early Nazarene/Qumran communities to just religion or spirituality or philosophy is not the right way to go about considering this part of history in my assessment. We need to also consider they were advanced scientifically...
I posted this summary before of my research and what I've personally been told from far greater minds than mine, but including again here in case anyone wants to consider these ideas:
I suspect for all we have gained in this era (internet, universal education, human rights etc) we have lost much.
The Library of Alexandria is one example. The pyramids of Egypt and Latin America are other examples. Scientists and historians of our era don't have a clue about such things and can merely guess. But the Biblical era, and the pre-Biblical era (Judaism's inception), are still connected to whatever these advanced ancient eras were about. All had not been lost by that point, I sense...Even if much of it was passed down orally.
I believe we have lost much ancient technology and ancient wisdom about the Universe (things that we are just starting to rediscover now through quantum physics and other mediums). I believe certain technologies of the ancients are mentioned throughout the Bible, especially the Old Testament. I believe the Essenes, which Jesus is said to have been a part of, still had ancient secrets and perhaps even ancient technologies.
I don't think The Way (the name for early Christianity before heretics like Paul and the Romans hijacked it) was just a spiritual path, but also a scientific one. Scientific practices to further oneself spiritually - things like making the brain a receiver and conduit to the Universe. A scientific "theosis" (a transformative process to unify with God or become alike with God). One example was advanced hygiene practices for the body and mind (for as the old saying goes, cleanliness is next to Godliness). Another example was ancient spiritual theosis food within Judaic mystery schools which remained a secret. Not normal food as we know it, but rather "Food of the Gods" that came from the pre-Flood Biblical ancestors and ancient Yehidah faith communities. These scientific-spiritual practices allowed for near immortal life spans and the ingesting of theosis food kept these adepts disease free and more intuitive and connecting to things greater than them...This theosis food, which completely energized all physical organs and etheric chakras and the overall aura of each consumer, was widely available in the (earlier) Yehidah faith communities of Babylonian era but only the Nazareth/Qumran community had the recipes and food processing technologies and the "proprietary" process for the theosis food around the time of Christ and a century or so after. After sometime in the 2nd Century A.D., the advanced theosis food became only for royals and priests of the Vatican in similar fashion to "saving the most life enhancing methods" for royal bloodline families in ancient Egypt.
The Way was therefore originally a complete system to enlightenment it was not just a "sit and meditate" or "kneel and pray" path - rather it was physical (health and Chi-enhancing body movements), emotional, mental (brain optimization) and of course spiritual/psychic. 99% of that has been lost in modern Christianity. As per this Jesus quote in Matthew 24:5: “For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." Christianity post the Council of Nicea (325AD) is in many ways the antithesis of Christ and The Way. Does not matter if Jesus lived or not (that's confusing the message with the messenger) - all that matters is the message of the original Nazarene sects of which the Essenes were one. It's the same message and life path as the Eastern mystery schools and the most advanced Yogic groups of ancient India.
In short, we have lost much "underground knowledge" for various reasons like floods, comet/meteor strikes and other natural disasters, suppression and control (e.g. secret societies of the elite hoarding crucial information), and also things simply getting lost over time and buried forever. I believe the history of humanity is cyclical and our civilization now is not necessarily the zenith or apex of human history. In fact, I tend to think we are at a low ebb in many ways and trying to catch up to our ancient ancestors, without realizing it...
Then there is the analogy that native peoples, who many also call
"simple people", living in their traditional state, seem to have far greater understanding of the universe and dare I say it God (however we define that). They have greater intuition and perhaps that comes to being more connected to nature.
And the people of the Biblical era were also more connected to nature and so perhaps living out under the stars and living with animals made them more connected to the humanity's "greater reality".

Books mentioned in this topic
The Wisdom of the Knowing Ones: Gnosticism: The Key to Esoteric Christianity (other topics)The Wisdom of the Knowing Ones: Gnosticism: The Key to Esoteric Christianity (other topics)
Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (other topics)
The Gnostic Notebook: Volume Two: On the Secrets of James and Thomas (other topics)
The Gnostic Notebook: Volume Three: On Plato, the Fourth Dimension, and the Lost Philosophy (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Anthony Peake (other topics)Linda Stasi (other topics)
Tony Sunderland (other topics)
Masaru Emoto (other topics)
Tony Sunderland (other topics)
More...
Some say the Dead Sea Scrolls (which were written from around 400BC to 300AD) can provide many of the missing links in three monotheistic Abrahamic faith systems and they also can enlighten curious Christians, Jews and Muslims.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in the Qumran Cave system, in the ancient location “Khirbet Qumran” (in the modern day West Bank near the Dead Sea), in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Here is the Wikipedia page for these amazing cave findings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea...
These hotly debated ancient religious or spiritual or Gnostic (depending on your interpretation of them) texts possibly challenge all the organized religions of the Middle East and history as we know it. The reason for this is these texts are likely to have never been edited (unlike the Bible we have today) and are original scrolls that were not associated with the Roman (New Testament) revisionists or the earlier revisions of the Old Testament by other groups.
The Sadduceans, the Nazarenes and the Essenes (a mysterious Jewish sect) were operating in the Qumran community at the time the Dead Sea Scrolls were written. Some researchers say these groups were the intellectual powerhouses of the day and very advanced – and probably holding “underground knowledge” for that era. Jesus Christ is said to have been part of the Qumran Nazarene community and perhaps their spiritual figurehead.
Many have said the Dead Sea Scrolls are Gnostic. And Gnosticism may have been the original faith that inspired, or devolved, into Christianity.
It appears that Christianity is essentially an offshoot of the Sadduceans, the Nazarenes and the Essenes (which itself is an offshoot of the more ancient Melchizedek faith). I have also read works about the Dead Sea Scrolls by a couple of historical reseachers who call the writers of these ancient texts to be of the "ancient Melchizedek Sadducean Essene Nazarene faith communities".
An objective study of the Dead Sea Scrolls appears to reveal the original (Qumran) faith of early Christianity and possibly the roots of Rabbinical Judaism as well as Islam. As the scrolls' references to the resurrection and the Lord etc contradict the modern Bible, that also seems to confirm the longstanding theories that the faith was contaminated and corrupted by the Romans in later centuries.
I happen to believe, at this stage of my research at least, that if we could return to the ancient (Gnostic) faith doctrines of the Qumran we’d have much higher teachings to follow. These spiritual teachings (many of which have been lost during the course of history) were hijacked and altered by the organized religions of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Bestselling sci-fi author Arthur C. Clarke predicted that the spiritual faith of the future would be Christianity-Judaism-Islam. For those who hate religion this probably sounds like “same-old, same-old, yawn”, but I think what Clarke was actually saying was not about organized religions but rather that the world needs to rediscover the true roots of these religions. The ancient spirituality of the Gnostic Sadduceans, Nazarenes and Essenes that spawned all three monotheistic faiths.
The Qumran community considered and called themselves the Sons of Light and stood in opposition to the Sons of Darkness. The Sons of Light practiced “Théōsis” (cleansing body and mind to unite with God) so they could fulfil the ancient spiritual path of allowing “more light” to enter oneself and thereby gaining more wisdom. The Qumran Sons of Light sought purity, sanctity, and harmony, while the Sons of Darkness (who in Gnostic terminology may have also been known as Archons) sought destruction, chaos and degeneracy.
Upon hearing all three monotheistic Abrahamic faith systems descend from Qumran Nazareth, many may rightly ask: how could Judaism also descend from the Qumran Community given how old Judaism is? But according to this overall theory, Judaism of today is basically “retro Judaism” and a version of the faith that split from early Christianity (which was closely aligned) between about 100-200 AD. Also, the Qumran site and the interconnected spiritual faith communities in surrounding areas were actually developed in the biblical Old Testament period…
Qumran is also said to have been the original Bible publishing house (pre-dating Jerusalem’s publishing works). The Qumran library distributed texts of their early scriptures across the entire Sadducean world faith community, which is said to have been quite large at that time. It was basically the equivalent of a modern publishing and distribution house. The original Qumran community was therefore the ancestral spiritual literary matriarch of the later Jerusalem church.
And the Dead Sea Scrolls are surviving texts of this community’s publishing and distribution networks…