Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
FORBIDDEN HISTORY OF THE BIBLE
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The GNOSTIC Dead Sea Scrolls (and the Nag Hammadi)
Jim wrote: "James, you raise an important point. Separating religion from science or anything else is a very recent development. It really only took hold during the enlightenment. Most languages don't even hav..."Yeah, and I seem to recall you posting ages ago that you tend to believe things we modern people view as fanciful or superstitious, like Feng Shui or astrology, are probably residue of ancient technologies...And now that we have lost the advanced science that inspired those methodologies, those practices look meaningless and devoid of any truth...But that perhaps they were legit sciences many, many centuries ago.
So I think that school of thought also ties in with the neat separations or divisions you refer to.
Might be worth a lookie...The Secret Initiation of Jesus at Qumran: The Essene Mysteries of John the Baptist
a video from the author on his latest book Black Holes in the Dead Sea Scrolls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GCE...
Nick wrote: "James thanks, looks like a good read"No worries. The history of the Gnostics, and those interrelated to them, sure is a fascinating rabbit hole. I hope in time this thread/group will attract more and more researchers and greater minds to enlighten us.
Hey guys, my podcast chat with author and researcher Tony Sunderland goes in depth on Gnosticism and tries to get to the bottom of who the Gnostics were exactly...UNDERGROUND KNOWLEDGE Podcast #2: Tony Sunderland (Gnosticism vs. Christianity) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGf5O...
David wrote: "listened to again. Very nice job."Thanks Dave, and thanks also for emailing me the following which I'm posting here in group:
Linda Stasi is a media personality, and a columnist for the New York
Daily News. She spoke about her newest novel, a religious thriller
called the Book of Judas, which is fueled by the startling information
found in the Gospel of Judas that features conversations between Jesus
and Judas. Thought to be written in the 2nd century AD by Gnostic
Christians, the only known copy has been carbon dated to be between
1,700 and 1,800 years old, and first surfaced in the 1970s, she cited.
In the Gospel, Jesus tells Judas that human life originated from the
Sirius star system, and Stasi suspects that Jesus himself may have been
an ET from there.
Another interesting revelation from the Judas Gospel is that Judas did
not betray Jesus but was actually his closest friend and advisor. I
believe "we've been sold a bill a goods," that perhaps stemmed from the
other apostles being jealous of Judas, and thus created the story of
betrayal. Further, she continued, the thirty pieces of silver said to be
his payment for the betrayal was a small amount, and Judas was serving
as the treasurer of Jesus' group and wouldn't have been swayed by such a
paltry sum. Stasi also talked about the intrigue over the missing pages
from the Judas Gospel, which some suspect may reveal the secret of the
resurrection, and how this knowledge might be converted into a powerful
weapon if it fell into the wrong hands.
her webpage: http://www.lindastasi.com/
A really good 10 min summary of the Gnostics' beliefs...What Did Gnostic Christians Believe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuvk2...
Mysterious Origins/ Knights Templar & Gnosticism https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...James Wasserman is a longtime student of the occult and a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis since 1976. In the latter half, he talked about the Knights Templar, gnosticism, the Crusades, and how history sheds light on the modern conflict between Islam and the West. Formed around 1,000 years ago, the Knights Templar began as a monastic Catholic military order but experienced Gnostic illuminations (mystical knowledge) and were sometimes considered heretical by the Church, though they played an active role in the Crusades. They had contact and treaties with a number of esoteric and spiritual groups around the Holy Land such as the Assassins, and the Cathars, he recounted.
The Cathars, a French group of Christian mystics, totally rejected materialism and were considered the most heretical, Wasserman continued. The Assassins, a Muslim group, targeted enemies' leaders rather than soldiers or civilians, and were quite humane in their own way, he remarked. One of the Assassins' leaders totally overturned Sharia or Muslim law, but was killed two years later. At the time of the Crusades, the Muslim world was more sophisticated than European civilization. The current war between the West and Islam is based on a false dichotomy, since they share common roots, Wasserman observed.
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...
This looks like an intriguing little number...The Alternative Trinity: Gnostic Heresy in Marlowe, Milton, and Blake
The Trinity of orthodox Christianity is harmonious. The Trinity for Blake is, conspicuously, not a happy family: the Father and the Son do not get on. It might be thought that so cumbersome a notion is inconceivable before the rise of Romanticism but the Ophite Gnostics of the second century AD appear to have thought that God the Father was a jealous tyrant because he forbade Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge and that the serpent, who led the way to the Tree of Knowledge, was really Christ. This book explores the possibility of an underground "perennial heresy," linking the Ophites to Blake. The "alternative Trinity" is intermittently visible in Marlowe's Doctor Faustus and even in Milton's Paradise Lost. Blake's notorious detection of a pro-Satan anti-poem, latent in this "theologically patriarchal" epic is less capricious, better grounded historically and philosophically, than is commonly realized.
TechGnosis: Myth, Magic & Mysticism in the Age of InformationThe gap between the technological mentality and the mystical outlook may not be as great as it seems. Erik Davis looks at modern information technology--and much previous technology--to reveal how much of it has roots in spiritual attitudes. Furthermore, he explores how those who embrace each new technological advance often do so with designs and expectations stemming from religious sensibilities. In doing so, Davis both compares and contrasts the scientific attitude that we can know reality technologically and the Gnostic idea of developing ultimate understanding. Although organized into reasonable chapters, there's a strong stream-of-consciousness component to Davis's writing. His expositions may run, for example, from information theory to the nebulous nature of Gnosticism to the philosophical problem of evil-all in just a few pages. It's as if there are so many connections to make that Davis's prose has to run back and forth across time and space drawing the lines. But the result, rather than being chaotic, is a lively interplay of wide-ranging ideas. His style is equally lively and generally engaging--if sometimes straying into the hip. In the end, he succeeds in showing the spiritual side of what some may see as cold, technological thought.
I've always thought the Druze are an interesting Gnostic sect...Especially as some scholars say the original Biblical texts contained references to reincarnation which were edited out or lost over time or mistranslated or whatever...And the Druze believe in reincarnation which to my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) makes them the only Middle Eastern/Abrahamic faith that believes in reincarnation...Druze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
The Druze (/druːz/;[16] Arabic: درزي darzī or durzī, plural دروز durūz; Hebrew: דרוזי drūzī plural דרוזים, druzim) are an esoteric ethnoreligious group[17] originating in Western Asia who self-identify as unitarians (Al-Muwaḥḥidūn/Muwahhidun).[18] Jethro of Midian is considered an ancestor of all people from Druze Mountain, who revere him as their spiritual founder and chief prophet.[19][20][21][22][23]
The Druze faith is a monotheistic and Abrahamic religion based on the teachings of high Islamic figures like Hamza ibn-'Ali ibn-Ahmad and Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, and Greek philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle.[24][25] The Epistles of Wisdom is the foundational text of the Druze faith.[26] The Druze faith incorporates elements of Islam's Ismailism,[27] Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Pythagoreanism, Hinduism,[28][29] and other philosophies and beliefs, creating a distinct and secretive theology known to interpret esoterically religious scriptures, and to highlight the role of the mind and truthfulness.[18][29] The Druze follow theophany, and believe in reincarnation or the transmigration of the soul.[30] At the end of the cycle of rebirth, which is achieved through successive reincarnations, the soul is united with the Cosmic Mind (al-ʿAql al-kullī).[31]
Although dwarfed by other, larger communities, the Druze community played an important role in shaping the history of the Levant, and continues to play a large political role there. As a religious minority in every country they live in, they have frequently experienced persecution, except in Lebanon and Israel where Druze judges, parliamentarians, diplomats, and doctors occupy the highest echelons of society. Even though the faith originally developed out of Ismaili Islam, Druze are not considered Muslims, although Al Azhar of Egypt recognizes them as one of the Islamic sects akin to Shiite Muslims.[32][33][34][35] Fatimid Caliph Ali az-Zahir, whose father al-Hakim is a key figure in the Druze faith, was particularly harsh, causing the death of many Druze in Antioch, Aleppo, and northern Syria. Persecution flared up during the rule of the Mamluks and Ottomans.[36] Most recently, Druze were targeted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and Al-Qaeda[37] in order to cleanse Syria and neighboring countries of non-Islamic influence.[38]
The Druze faith is one of the major religious groups in the Levant, with between 800,000 and a million adherents. They are found primarily in Syria, Lebanon and Israel, with small communities in Jordan and outside Southwestern Asia. The oldest and most densely-populated Druze communities exist in Mount Lebanon and in the south of Syria around Jabal al-Druze (literally the "Mountain of the Druzes").[39] The Druze's social customs differ markedly from those of Muslims or Christians, and they are known to form close-knit, cohesive communities which do not fully allow non-Druze in, though they themselves integrate fully in their adopted homelands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
Scholars Have Found a Rare Copy of Heretical Writings on Jesus And His 'Brother' https://www.sciencealert.com/greek-fi...This didn't make it into the Bible.
MIKE MCRAE 1 DEC 2017
Near what is today the Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi, some 1,400 years or so ago, somebody buried a whole bunch of documents in a jar.
It's now been revealed that fragments of one of those manuscripts are somewhat different to the others in this hidden library. For one thing, they're written in Greek rather than Coptic. But a strange sequence of dots also hints at a more didactic purpose.
The Nag Hammadi library consists of 52 texts spread through 13 leather-bound vellum codices that were discovered back in 1945 by local farmers looking for fertiliser.
Traced back to anywhere between the 2nd and 6th century CE, they are of a heretical tradition described as Gnosticism – an early, rather mystical form of Christianity.
Like so many Gnostic records, most of the documents are written in Coptic, a traditional language written and spoken in Egypt for many centuries.
Earlier this year, religious studies researchers at The University of Texas at Austin discovered one was different to most of the others – it was a copy of an existing piece scribed in Greek.
"To say that we were excited once we realised what we'd found is an understatement," says Geoffrey Smith, a scholar of Biblical Greek and Christian origins.
"We never suspected that Greek fragments of the First Apocalypse of James survived from antiquity. But there they were, right in front of us."
The manuscript is famous for describing a conversation between Jesus and James, who he refers to as frequently 'my brother'. Before we get too excited about proof of siblings, he does make it clear that James is "not my brother materially".
Nonetheless, the document is technically heretical, not being included in the Christian canon as a bonafide gospel by Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, who led discussions in the 4th century on what scriptures to include in the New Testament.
"The text supplements the biblical account of Jesus's life and ministry by allowing us access to conversations that purportedly took place between Jesus and his brother, James – secret teachings that allowed James to be a good teacher after Jesus's death," says Smith.
Being written in Greek isn't the only thing that makes it stand out.
"The scribe has divided most of the text into syllables by using mid-dots," says Brent Landau, a lecturer in Religious Studies at the University of Texas.
"Such divisions are very uncommon in ancient manuscripts, but they do show up frequently in manuscripts that were used in educational contexts."
In other words, this version of the text was a teaching tool, probably modelling Greek for students. Most example texts are small sections of known texts – having a complete translation of the First Apocalypse of James could reflect the teacher's love of the account.
The Nag Hammadi library holds immense importance for the understanding of Gnostic culture.
No doubt this more unusual sample will add colourful detail to our impression of the development of Christianity in the first few centuries.
The discovery was announced at the Society of Biblical Literature Annual Meeting in Boston in November.
I love learning more about The Dead Sea Scrolls. A great fiction book that also makes note of their existence is PROOF. The author work tirelessly researching the scrolls and since then, I've needed to learn more about them. :)
The Way:The name which was widely used for the believers, and is most unknown to Christians today would be the title “The Way”. Probably originating from Christ Himself, who called Himself “The Way”(Joh 14:6), this name was used widely in the Book of Acts. The below verses prove that they were known more widely as “the Way”, than the “Christians”, especially as Paul introduces himself as a follower of “the Way” to the Governor, and not as a “Christian”(Acts 24:14), even though they were known as “Christians” by Acts 11:26.
Act 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
Act 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.
Act 19:23 About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way.
Act 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Act 24:22 But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way, put them off, saying, “When Lysias the tribune comes down, I will decide your case.”
Kinda thin and no new information, nice production values, though.I can only imagine the video was for people who had never heard of Gnosticism but even then, it didn't say much.
Lately, I’ve been doing a bunch of reading and re-reading on Gospel of Thomas. I’m fascinated by the “secret teachings of Jesus”. I’m also intrigued by the notion that this particular book could be the bridge between Christianity and Hinduism/Buddhism-at least from my perspective. The idea of finding the kingdom of god within and being disturbed by finding the truth speaks volumes to me about exoteric offerings of churches versus esoteric internal understanding of “spirituality”. Lately, I’ve been practicing Zen Buddhism(about a year). The more I read and practice, the more I see the connection between Christianity of Thomas and Buddhist thought. The truth, at least my own truth, is disturbing because it implicated everything I’ve been taught and everyone that taught it to me....I’m discovering, on a daily basis, that non-dualism is the message....We are all part of the greater universe and each other and that in of itself is the kingdom of heaven. We choose heaven or hell right here and now and with each other...knowing there isn’t a “Valhalla” style heaven waiting for us kinda sucks, but also knowing that each moment we live is a miracle is pretty awesome too. We are lowercase gods....we create our own realities, we decide how we live, love, eat, walk, sleep, interact, inter-be, work, etc....not some outside force! I could be way off, but this is my and others interpretation on secret meaning of Jesus. Only one gnostic interpretation among many, but thought I would share my journey to finding Zen from Catholicism and it is all thanks to reading the Gnostics first!
B. wrote: " I could be way off, but this is my and others interpretation on secret meaning of Jesus..."Nope, I think you've pretty much got it. Agree with all you say/imply.
The Romans, with their cultish offshoot religion of Christianity (cute name considering it probably didn't have much relation to Christ's message), separated God from we The People, made it something "out there" and distant and something exclusive to their organized religion...Even tho Jesus said "the kingdom of heaven is within"...Go Figure!
Judaism must be factored into all this as well, as Gnosticism and Judaism are not mutually exclusive (many researchers either conveniently or accidentally forget the Jews in this equation)...Especially relevant in my opinion with the Romans being as anti-Semitic as Nazis (and doing various Holocaust-style genocides amounting to millions of Jews dead)...And there's no way the official religion of Rome was ever going to be a Jewish one...But The Way (name for first followers of the Christ life path/philosophy in early decades AD) was becoming so popular that Rome needed to do something about it...so their answer was to take it over and repackage it to their liking in the 4th Century AD (Council of Nicea etc). I don't think any of this mystery can be understood without studying Judaism as much as Christianity...
I did a podcast on this titled Gnosticism vs Christianity with religious scholar Tony Sunderland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGf5O...
Hopefully Tony can post more on this subject.
p.s. That doesn't mean I don't think there are not some fantastic Christians (especially the ones more Biblically-inspired, rather than blind followers of the religious leaders on Earth like the Pope or institutions like the Vatican).
Yes! Agreed James. I’ve been discussing/debating a lot of those same points with friends lately. Great post, thanks for your insights.
It seems that Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Hermetism, and Kabbala use spatial metaphors for the separation of God/Mind and the material world with various stages in between. In Kabbala, it expressed in the Tree of Life with each of the sephira representing some distinct part of reality.I don't think much of those concepts from an epistemological standpoint but they would be incredibly useful for a magician or shaman. I see those concepts as an imposed hierarchy that's useful for getting a handle on the other side/world/universe.
Aleister Crowley used to say that doing certain things would produce certain effects but he warned his students not to attribute any reality of philosophical validity to their experiences.
Jim, interesting point. Would you consider Chakras falling under the same category? It’s interesting because I started with Gnosticism and what blown away by much of what I was reading....I then started reading into Kaballah, neoPlatonism, hermeticism, Sufism, mystic Christianity, Hinduism and eventually led me to Zen. I actually joined a Sangha, purchased my own Zafu and incense bowl and got to “work” on deepening my practice of Zen. What I love about Zen is that it is the antithesis of structure....sure, form is emptiness and emptiness is form and my Roshi says that much of the ritual performed in ceremony is simply the framework of a house, what you do or do not put in the empty house is up to you-this is what I love about Buddhism, Zen in particular-you are immediately a Buddha and not a Buddha at the same time. Your realization is fluid-some days I have a deep sense of “buddhahood” during zazen and other days I feel like a shlub. With Zen, the mysticism is replaced with realism....fervor and zeal are replaced by equanimity and mere humanity- the biggest lesson I’ve learned is that Zen is about becoming more human...that is all. I feel like Gnosticism to some degree believes that “knowing” God is knowing yourself, knowing your humanity. Again, just my thoughts after much research and thinking. Thanks for everyone’s thoughts-I learn and unlearn daily and for that I am thankful 😉
Activating certain chakras produces certain effects. Does that make them real? I have to fall back on Crowley and approach the topic skeptically.I used to practice Qigong and long form Tai Chi. I was convinced at the time that Chi is a real thing. I certainly can't explain it in a materialist paradigm. Does that make it less real? Again, I could say doing certain exercises produces certain effects.
I'm not sure we can really know the ultimate nature of reality. I have thought about it for enough years that I have ideas. I may never know, however, if those ideas are right.
Eastern religions and practices seem to have either the goal of becoming nothing or becoming one with everything. I sometimes wonder if those are the same thing.
The Egyptian Origins of Gnosticism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv98m...Published on Oct 19, 2018
Most assume the Jewish, Zoroastrian, and Greek origins of Gnosticism. However, by overlooking that the Gnostics were the direct carriers of older mysteries from Egypt, we miss the essence of their teachings. In many ways, these teachings go against all western theology. Perhaps Gnosis is primarily the ability to awaken a primordial serpent that humans have forgotten.
3,500 BC guys n gals...Godfather of Gnosticism?A Brief Overview of Zoroastrianism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiGDM...
This kinda relates to Gnosticism in my opinion, as the Gnostics seem to be less about buildings, organizations and more about teachings...Remember, the Bible Never Mentions A Building Called ‘Church’ https://relevantmagazine.com/god/reme...
The Church was never meant to be a place.
The Church was meant to control and generate wealth
James, great article-thank you for sharing. I found the author of the article shares a viewpoint of mine-Gnosis is finding out that god lives within us....to me this is why I believe that Zen/Buddhism and Gnosticism are saying very similar things-everything you need for liberation is within, not without. I truly think Gnosticism is a natural bridge between eastern and western religious beliefs systems.
It’s also interesting that I came to find so much peace and understanding in Zen, but I only got there by first studying the Gnostics! Zen is certainly known to blend elements of Taoism and Buddhism; it does not have any dualistic concepts like some Gnosticism does, but many elements like illusion, the root of suffering, searching within ones self, etc are very similar.
I like Hancock, but his is off the shelf and way out in left field.
Meet the Mandeans, the last living Gnostic people...Save the Gnostics - The New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/op...
The Mandeans are the only surviving Gnostics from antiquity, cousins of the people who produced the Nag Hammadi writings like the Gospel of Thomas, a work that sheds invaluable light on the many ways in which Jesus was perceived in the early Christian period. The Mandeans have their own language (Mandaic, a form of Aramaic close to the dialect of the Babylonian Talmud), an impressive body of literature, and a treasury of cultural and religious traditions amassed over two millennia of living in the southern marshes of present-day Iraq and Iran.
James, I own that one and love it. It’s fairly expansive as it includes most, if not all, gnostic texts and related info. Great reference tool.A book that I dearly love because it was one of the first books that got me interested in this subject is The Secret History if the Gnostics by Andrew Phillip Smith
https://www.amazon.com/Secret-History...
This a damn good read.
The Pleroma or Zero Point Field: Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNKiS...The ancient Gnostics claimed that there existed an ultimate and idealized reality called the Pleroma, the primordial consciousness that permeated and perhaps sustained all of existence. Beyond that, it also was the roadmap in the sensible world that could grant sentient forms its supernal information, teach one the ways of eternity...also called Gnosis or perhaps Total Recall. New science reveals that the Pleroma is not just the philosophical musings of bygone heretics but an active force that can be tapped into in order to access infinite power and knowledge. In essence, the Pleroma or Zero Point Field has the potential of granting the promise of The Gnostics: to become divine while still in the flesh.
Guest: Anthony Peake, author of Is There Life After Death? The Extraordinary Science Of What Happens When We Die: Why Science Is Taking The Idea Of An Afterlife Seriously
Reuters: A new generation takes up the hunt for Dead Sea Scrolls https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ar...
The mystery deepens! Thanks for the link James.
Anyone considered links between Hinduism and Gnosticism?Hinduism: Why So Many Gods? Why Do They Have Many Arms? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twx7Q...
Playlist: Teachings of the Hindu Gods Gnostic Teachings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9zD...
James, that’s been my supposition all along that the Gnostics are a bridge between dharma “religions” and Christianity! I’m looking forward to reading the articles.
*watching videos(sorry I thought they were articles at first)
Intriguing paradoxical title for a book...a "successful failure"...could the failure part be because Gnosticism was essentially edited out of the Bible by the Romans? (I'm oversimplifying obviously, but just wondering if Gnosticism is the missing link?)Christianity: A Successful Failure
Awesome rec! I’m finally reading the Gospel of Thimas the Younger by Gary T McDonald and I’m at the scene of Saul’s conversion when he becomes Paul...this scene is powerful in this Gnovel(gnostic novel....sorry for the dad joke) because it shows that Saul and other people started essentiallyplaying the game telephone on the story of Jesus-one person heard from another heard from another and eventually it was warped by Paul, a very charismatic man, into what would become the Christianity we know today, all while those that actually knew what was going on kept silent for fear of retribution. This reminds me of the old parable of the guru who chained a stray cat to his altar so it wouldn’t bother the people in the ashram from meditating...he ended up adopting the pet and chaining the cat to the altar daily so it wouldn’t bother the followers...after the guru died, his followers continued to care for the cat in the same way. After the cat died, the followers of his followers insisted they get a new cat and chain it to the altar because it was obviously an important aspect of what the guru taught...they even manipulated scriptures to fit this narrative and the cat remained a massive part of that sect belief henceforth.
B. wrote: "Awesome rec! I’m finally reading the Gospel of Thimas the Younger by Gary T McDonald and I’m at the scene of Saul’s conversion when he becomes Paul...this scene is powerful in this Gnovel(gnostic n..."That parable of the guru who chained a stray cat to his altar is, I suspect, a very good analogy for what went down with Gnosticism and Early Christianity and eventually the Romanized (edited) version.
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Wisdom of the Knowing Ones: Gnosticism: The Key to Esoteric Christianity (other topics)The Wisdom of the Knowing Ones: Gnosticism: The Key to Esoteric Christianity (other topics)
Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan (other topics)
The Gnostic Notebook: Volume Two: On the Secrets of James and Thomas (other topics)
The Gnostic Notebook: Volume Three: On Plato, the Fourth Dimension, and the Lost Philosophy (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Anthony Peake (other topics)Linda Stasi (other topics)
Tony Sunderland (other topics)
Masaru Emoto (other topics)
Tony Sunderland (other topics)
More...
While I am aware of this, I find it easy to forget it. Habits of thought are tough to work around.