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Groovy Lee
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message 1: by Groovy (last edited Mar 22, 2015 08:24PM) (new)

Groovy Lee I could use some more advice. Here's my dilemma: I just sent off another book for reviewing. As I was looking at my list of reviewers I sent this particular book to, I noticed that out of the eight people, only two have written a review.

The dates range back from Oct. to Dec. 2014. They all but promised to give a review. I haven't gone broke sending out free copies, but it does add up.

Do I just forget about it? What did you do when you didn't receive your expected review?

Thanks to everyone in advance for their advice.


message 2: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments I agree with Victoria, move on and cut your losses. Last year I sent free copies out to maybe a dozen potential reviewers and I think I got like 2 reviews out of it. Unless you write the persons name down with an e-mail address and keep track it's really hard to do anything about reviews you never got.


message 3: by Victoria (last edited Mar 22, 2015 09:07PM) (new)

Victoria Zigler (toriz) | 2898 comments Honestly? There's nothing you can do about it, except be glad you got the reviews you did get.

I had the same thing happen; I gave away 20 copies of one of my books in exchange for reviews, which were meant to be posted on both Goodreads and Smashwords (with the option of posting elsewhere if people could do so; Barnes & Noble carry my books and allow you to leave reviews without having to buy copies, for example). Only half the people reviewed it at all, and only half of those did it on more than just Goodreads.

After a few months had passed since the reviewing deadline, I posted a message on the threads where I was giving away copies, reminding people about doing reviews, and thanking those who had done them already. It achieved nothing. So, I asked an author friend - who's also moderator of one of the groups I was giving away copies on - what I should do, and asked if he could do something to prompt them to follow the rules and leave reviews. He told me there wasn't anything I could do, nor anything he could do for me, and that - while he was sorry it had happened - the only help he could give me was to tell me to be grateful I'd had that many people do reviews, since he'd had times he'd given copies away and gotten no reviews at all.

The problem is... While giving away free copies of your books in exchange for reviews can potentially gain you new readers, who will - hopefully - buy future books. Many people see it as just an opportunity to grab free books, and may not even read them, let alone review them and buy others. Unfortunately, you have no way to know which will happen until you've given the person a copy.


message 4: by C.J. (new)

C.J. Heath (CJHeath) Though I didn't ask for reviews, I ran a Kindle giveaway for the ebook version of one of my books and managed to give away 4,000 copies. I expected a some of those people to leave reviews but I think I accrued two. I mentioned this to another author who told me a large amount of people who take free books tend to add them to their "to read" list; seeing as some of those on Goodreads who have my book in their "to read" list have thousands of books there, I guess I could be waiting a long time :-/
Now? I don't have a large amount of reviews for either of my books but I'm content that they are genuine readers and so far have been gentle ;-)
My opinion for your situation is the same response I gave myself, chalk it up to experience and keep on writing.


message 5: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments @Groovy

If you sent the books to a ranked top reviewers there is a good chance that the reviewers overlooked your book. I am a top reviewer and I have 41 in queue. And, yes, I too have overlooked books. It happens. Like everybody else I have a job, a house, a yard, laundry, 2 cats and who knows what else to take care of. Reviewers are human and occasionally they get overwhelmed with work.

The best way to go is, to write the reviewer a nice email and ask "Obviously you have a lot of books on your nightstand. Do you already know when you'll get to my book? Can I answer any questions about my book?" That way you open the door for the reviewer to say, "Actually, your book will be next."

If, you sent copies to any readers, unfortunately, you cannot expect the same professionalism. If interested, I have penned a book about this topic, which is on giveaway right now.

Re: Kindle giveaways, you are lucky if you did not catch any negative reviews. Lots of people pull books "judging by the cover": very often they do not read the blurbs, and then write "1 star - not what I expected" or similar stuff, which does not help anybody.

Good luck with your inquiries.


message 6: by Loni (new)

Loni Engledow (lonisue75) | 5 comments Send them a short text and ask. I find I don't get some of the ones that I requested to review. They have gone to my junk file making me believe I have got some that have been deleted. I try to put people who are expecting a quick review in a special folder. I know I would like a reminder instead if having my author lot upset. You all do such hard work on your novels and you need recommendations. I wish I could do what you do. I dabble in a little poetry, but that's about it. I belong to two book clubs and teach school so it is easy to get behind. We don't mean to and like I said I'd rather a nice simple inquiry to make sure they did get it and are planning on reading and reviewing
:-) Loni Sue


message 7: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Stuart | 108 comments I did a "Free" promotion that resulted in a good number of downloads, but no reviews... or if there were any they appeared a long time afterwards and could have been from sales.

I've just completed a Countdown, during which I held the price at 99c. That brought a sales surge, but whether it will result in reviews remains to be seen.

I've come to the conclusion that promotions like that only really work if you have other books so, if your interest readers with free or cheap, there's something else for them to buy, otherwise they simply forget you.

I've never tried offering free books "in exchange for an honest review"; legally that has to be declared on Amazon and, if I see it, I ignore the review. Unfairly it seems since no way does in guarantee 5 stars but that's the way I saw it, until now. I wonder if other readers do?

My conclusion is that all we can do is keep writing, keep publicising, and cross fingers, pray, or whatever you, personally, think brings you luck.


message 8: by Antara (new)

Antara Mann | 23 comments @Gisela
Thanks so much for your insights for Amazon top reviewers. Will try out your strategy for sure :)


message 9: by Glenn (new)

Glenn Conley (gecizzle) | 3 comments Well first of all, don't spend money on sending your books to a reviewer. Send them a pdf or mobi copy of your book as an email attachment. Never gift from amazon, as they will see that as a paid review, and remove it most of the time.

As for waiting for a review to be posted, some of us get overwhelmed with submissions. Right now, I have over 100 books from authors requesting reviews.

So sometimes it does take some time to get to your book, but other times, your reviewer may have just forgot about you. Or maybe they just didn't like the book, and didn't want to post a bad review.


message 10: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee I understand, everyone. Thank you so much for the wealth of advice you sent me, it really helped. I just want to say, you guys are the greatest, and I mean it.

I see that reviewers are at times overwhelmed with authors asking for reviews, then there are those that just want a free book, and lastly, those that just didn't like it (still I would have appreciated a note stating that)

One reviewer told me he'd love to review my work, but it wouldn't be until Oct. until he could read it. I'm thinking by then, he'd long forgotten it.

What I don't understand is, why offer to review a book if you're inundated with others? That's not fair to the authors who are trying to get their work noticed.

Glenn, I didn't know Amazon removed paid reviews from gifted books! You'd think despite where it came from, it would help with the sales, and that's to their advantage.

Anyway, thanks, everyone.


message 11: by Victoria (new)

Victoria Zigler (toriz) | 2898 comments I agree about the not agreeing to do it if you have a lot of others waiting thing.

I review books on at least a semi-regular basis, but I never agree to review a book if I've got more than a handful waiting to be reviewed, and the only time I've ended up with more than 3 books I promised to review was when I signed up to review a couple, then some authors I review for regularly got in touch... I went from no books to review to 6 of them within 24 hours. But I then didn't agree to do any others until I'd finished reviewing those books, and made reading and reviewing them my priority.


message 12: by John (new)

John Rachel (johndrachel) | 170 comments Two out of eight? You're doing great!

Try twelve out of over two hundred. People like getting free books. Some are sincere but don't find the time to keep up their end of the bargain. Some may not like a book and stop reading it. Whatever. Life if full of disappointments. I expect disappointment, so I'm never disappointed.


message 13: by R.A. (new)

R.A. White (rawhite) | 361 comments I prefer to give out free ebook files instead of hard copies so I don't actually lose anything if the person doesn't review. You might avoid sending physical books in the future, or only send book two to people who reviewed book one so you know they're at least pretty likely to follow through.


message 14: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee John, that's a good rule to live by in the literary world--expect disappointment.

R.A., that's a good idea, thanks.


message 15: by [deleted user] (last edited Mar 29, 2015 06:29AM) (new)

You might consider joining a few Goodreads groups that have a free for review program. I have found that in most groups, the moderators are very conscientious of making sure that if someone takes a book, they actually review it. If they don't, they are no longer allowed to participate.

IndiGo has a street team of reviewers and we require that anyone who takes a book, agrees to review it in 2 - 3 weeks. I keep careful track of who I sent the books to and follow up on them if they have not written a review in the allotted time. You rarely get 100% participation. I've had a reviewer get sick and one who just couldn't get into the book enough to finish it, etc..

But if you take the time to put together a list of reviewers that you know are reliable, or you use a review service (not the same as paying for reviews), then you'll have better luck than just sending your book to random people.

We're currently offering to host authors books and make them available to our team at no cost to the author. Send me a pm if you're interested and I'll send you the details.


message 16: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Kaplan | 140 comments My feeling on this is that there might have been a few reasons that they didn't give the review you were hoping for:

1. Haven't gotten to it--often reviewers will work on a huge stack of books.
2. Didn't like the book enough to leave a review. I know when I review if I would give the book a 1 or 2 star review I will not review it but will instead send the author a note explaining what I thought was missing.
3. Forgot
4. Are jerks.
5. personal issues
6. never received the book

in every case you really have to move on. You can look into the idea of getting in touch with the person and say something like "I'm assuming you didn't like the book much, do you think you could point out a few things I need to work on?" Being humble and asking for help is a big positive. Never ever, ever be confrontational.

And when you do get reviews on Goodreads, in my opinion it's not bad form to ask them if they'll replicate it on Amazon or wherever you want it. Just be polite.

I also did use a press release review service. They didn't buy me reviews, but they built a press package and sent it out to a large list of reputable reviewers they know and if one of those reviewers expressed interest, the service told me where to send copies. In some cases it was just ebooks so the service sent them on.


message 17: by BR (new)

BR Kingsolver (brkingsolver) | 36 comments @Sarah I've never tried offering free books "in exchange for an honest review"; legally that has to be declared on Amazon and, if I see it, I ignore the review. Unfairly it seems since no way does in guarantee 5 stars but that's the way I saw it, until now. I wonder if other readers do?

I see this posted more and more, and it's evident that readers don't understand the rules. By FTC regulation, the disclaimer needs to be posted on any book review that is published anywhere. And since many (most?) reviewers don't go out and buy the books they review, this will occur on most reviews.

I don't mail hard copies to reviewers. I only send ebooks to those who respond to my review request. It takes time to read reviewers' policies and formulate a request according to their guidelines, and about 70% never respond. 20% say no thanks, and about 90% of those who say they will review it do.

That last percentage falls off significantly for reviewers contacted on Goodreads. I just keep track of who takes a book and I never hear from them again.


message 18: by Jim (last edited Mar 29, 2015 10:45AM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1227 comments Groovy,

So many authors routinely give their work away for free, many readers have adopted a personal philosophy of "why pay anything for something you can get for nothing." Some join literary websites for the sole purpose of seeking and taking advantage of every opportunity to get a free book. The only thing you can do to avoid being taken advantage of is to cease the practice of giving your books away for free.

There are far more effective marketing tools:
Website - Designed and maintained to promote a specific work and its author.

Personal Appearances - Literary festivals and conventions, public libraries, book clubs, and book stores.

Push Cards, Book Marks, Business Cards - Designed to promote a specific work and its author.

Active Participation in Literary Websites - Not just in the self-promotion threads. Allow members get to know you as a person and fellow avid reader.

Blog - Technically well written, interesting, and consistently maintained.

Interviews - Published in well-established literary magazines, websites, and blogs.


message 19: by Paganalexandria (last edited Mar 29, 2015 12:04PM) (new)

Paganalexandria I just spoke about this in another group from the readers perspective. I've been guilty of this a time or two. In both cases I just hated the books, didn't want to lie, but didn't want to leave a 1 or 2 star review out of politeness. I stopped telling writers, about not liking their book, and not wanting to leave the review because of an author's bad reaction previously. Nowadays I'm really picky about what ARCs to accept because of this. I refuse to pimp out horrible books just to be nice. I'm also no longer going to spend valuable reading time on books that can't be counted toward the annual book challenge because my real rating would be seen as rude. This is part of 2015 reading resolutions because I honestly hated a lot of books read last year due to participating in too many BOTM, and accepting way too many ARCs. I'm not implying your book is bad mind you, just another perspective to think about. I feel like in these situations the reader can be in a catch-22.


message 20: by Jim (last edited Mar 30, 2015 10:59AM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1227 comments Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "I just spoke about this in another group from the readers perspective. I've been guilty of this a time or two. In both cases I just hated the books, didn't want to lie, but didn't want to leave a 1..."

Paganalexandria,

Your experiences and the impact they have had upon your decisions pertaining to reviewing books are enlightening. Thank you for sharing.

I believe that some authors do not realize that the vast majority of readers never post a rating or review. Those that do, wish to share their subjective opinion of a book with other readers, not the author. I am sure that you are not the only one who has been subjected to an author's tirade because you had the audacity to indicate that you did not enjoy their book for whatever reasons.

Literary websites, including Goodreads, recommend that authors not contact readers directly for any reason. It is considered unprofessional and, in some cases, the person contacted feels intimidated or imposed upon.

I personally have posted ratings and reviews for 124 books on Goodreads; all written by traditionally published authors. None have ever contacted me, whether the review was positive, negative, or indifferent. So I presume that the obsession over reviews and the practice of contacting readers is limited to some self-published and independent authors. It is a shame that many professional and talented indies and SPA's are sometimes penalized for the actions of a few.


message 21: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Jim wrote: "So I presume that the obsession over reviews and the practice of contacting readers is limited to self-published and independent authors. "

Better stated as limited to some self-published or independent authors.


message 22: by Dwayne (new)

Dwayne Fry | 349 comments R.F.G. wrote: "Better stated as limited to some self-published or independent authors."

Now, R.F.G., you know all of us have nothing better to do but froth at the mouth and track down anyone that dares give our precious stories anything less than six stars. I am sitting outside the home of someone right now that dared give me a four star review, long needle poised over a voodoo doll of their likeness.

Or whatever it is that us "obsessed" independent authors do.

*snarl*


message 23: by Jim (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1227 comments R.F.G. wrote: "Jim wrote: "So I presume that the obsession over reviews and the practice of contacting readers is limited to self-published and independent authors. "

Better stated as limited to some self-publis..."


R.F.G,

You are absolutely correct. I have edited the original post accordingly. Your input is appreciated. Some of my best ideas have come from others.

Thank you.


message 24: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Dwayne wrote: "Now, R.F.G., you know all of us have nothing better to do but froth at the mouth and track down anyone that dares give our precious stories anything less than six stars. I am sitting outside the home of someone right now that dared give me a four star review, long needle poised over a voodoo doll of their likeness.

Or whatever it is that us "obsessed" independent authors do.

*snarl*"


Dwayne,

I remember a short email discourse I had a few years back with Anne Rice, though I seriously doubt she remembers me. Nice person, and I think she's been in voodoo territory a bit as well.

Must be how some of those traditional authors gain fans, sticking long-needles into miniature effigies.

As a rule, I'll give an e-copy to anyone who contacts me directly, and since I'm looking toward the future I can hook a reader up with a direct access link to an inexpensive print version of my work as well.

As far as looking up readers to contact, I don't have the flipping time for that. My tiny demon daughter is working on 17 months of age, I have books to write, or format and do the typography on, and reviews really don't mean that much to me -- I know I can write.

I may not be traditionally published, but I'm certainly not vanity / subsidy published, and I feel no need to push something on those who don't already profess an interest in my work.

Odd, you haven't offered me free stuff, then again my main reading time is on the porcelain throne before Her Grace gets too demanding, so it would be quite a while to get through anything longer than it takes to hear the thundering horde of one coming down the hall.

I guess we'd best remain quietly obsessed and independent.

Back to prepping my next release, I hate final edits.


message 25: by Dwayne (new)

Dwayne Fry | 349 comments R.F.G. wrote: "I guess we'd best remain quietly obsessed and independent."

Too much else requires my attention, too, to worry about readers. Some will love my work, some will hate it, some will find it "okay". I'm fine with all of that.

Perhaps if I only wrote one thing and one thing only I would have more time to obsess over readers, but my obsession when it comes to writing is my writing. I am obsessed with the next story and the next. I don't want to stop.

I put free stuff out there from time to time. I think I have something going free tomorrow. But, no, I generally do not offer anything free to individuals. Some traditional writers would be all too quick to demonize me for doing such a dastardly thing, I'm sure.

I'm not a fan of editing, either. This is why I have several things going at once. I can go back and forth from editing to working on a rough draft. It helps to keep me sane.


message 26: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Dwayne wrote: "Too much else requires my attention, too, to worry about readers. Some will love my work, some will hate it, some will find it "okay". I'm fine with all of that..."

I think I have roughly two dozen projects at various stages; some ready to release, others ready for copyright registration, others from concept to final chapter(s) stages. I also have stinky diapers to change, a demonically intelligent tiny pupil to teach, retirement to not plan for (since I will never be able to actually retire), an upcoming move to plan for, and so on ad nauseum amen.

If my child(ren) grow up to enjoy and appreciate my writing, anything else is icing. I tend to obsess over not dying before I get enough of what I'm here for done, the rest is extraneous at best.

Guess I need to get that suspense-horror-how-to up to speed, but it's working on time to eat and put someone to bed before we smell sulfuric fumes at Her anger -- peace out people.


message 27: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments Jim wrote: "Groovy,

So many authors routinely give their work away for free, many readers have adopted a personal philosophy of "why pay anything for something you can get for nothing." Some join literary web..."


@Jim, I could not agree more with you. Readers have to know you are serious. In the "olden days" authors published short essays for free in newspapers (I guess that has been replaced by blogs) but they NEVER gave away FREE books (other than ARCs to book reviewers) and that is exactly the situation, that needs to be restored.

Besides, I have figured out that the fastest way to get bad reviews is, to give away free books. I have read hundreds of reviews, which say "could not get into it", "thought it would be something else", etc... that's only because these reviewers had no stake in the book, not even 99 cents.

Anybody, who pays whatever amount, will first read the blurb and then try to read the book and not put it away after a few pages.

I have taken all my books out of KDP Select, and it's all good. I published a book 6 weeks ago - it has 38 reviews, and another one 2 weeks ago, it has 8 reviews.

Authors have to stand up and simply stop giving books away for free. Nobody else gives his work away, no electrician, no plumber, no movie extra, whose work may be to stand on a street corner and hold a newspaper...


message 28: by Christine (new)

Christine Hayton (ccmhayton) | 324 comments Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "I just spoke about this in another group from the readers perspective. I've been guilty of this a time or two. In both cases I just hated the books, didn't want to lie, but didn't want to leave a 1..."

I understand completely and stopped playing the game long ago. I review books I have selected and paid for myself. I read at my own pace. I review them honestly and sometimes they are 1 or 2 star books, but I find since I took control of what I'm reading and buy only what interests me, I run into fewer "Bad" books.

My reviews are always honest and I would never NOT review to avoid author harassment. I've had that delightful experience as well. I try to buy based on suggestions from friends and that seems to eliminate the chances of reading poor quality books.


message 29: by W.E. (new)

W.E. Lawrence | 21 comments Gisela wrote: "Jim wrote: "Groovy,

So many authors routinely give their work away for free, many readers have adopted a personal philosophy of "why pay anything for something you can get for nothing." Some join ..."


Here, here!


message 30: by Theresa (new)

Theresa (theresa99) | 535 comments Dwayne wrote: "Now, R.F.G., you know all of us have nothing better to do but froth at the mouth and track down anyone that dares give our precious stories anything less than six stars.I am sitting outside the home of someone right now that dared give me a four star review, long needle poised over a voodoo doll of their likeness.
Or whatever it is that us "obsessed" independent authors do. ..."


Oh wow, I wondered what we "obsessed" independent authors do with our time. I am glad you were able to clarify that!

In all seriousness though, I know it stings something fierce when someone does not like our work, but it is like any other job, you have to be professional about it.

I know when I had one of my first less than stellar reviews, I had a knee-jerk reaction of anger and self-doubt, but I took a few days and cooled down and then thanked the reviewer for their time and effort.

Creativity is very personal and not everyone is going to like everything. I have learned that as I have gone through the process.


message 31: by C.J. (last edited Mar 29, 2015 11:41PM) (new)

C.J. Heath (CJHeath) After acquiring nothing but 5* reviews, I received a three star for one of my books and was initially hurt by it but subsequently took the reviewers points on board, thanked them, re-edited the work and also considered their comments when writing the sequel. It's made me a better writer and that reviewer is now a friend who gets an advance copy of my work so I can try to match their high standards :-D

Having said that, I've since had another three star (for a different book) on Goodreads where the comments were all praise and I can't discern why they gave me a three. I'm not going to worry over it as it's nothing I can change. Accepting that there will be negative reviews has to be part of an author's lot.


message 32: by Dwayne (new)

Dwayne Fry | 349 comments Theresa wrote: "In all seriousness though, I know it stings something fierce when someone does not like our work, but it is like any other job, you have to be professional about it."

Yes and no. Yes, I agree, we should try to remain professional if and when our darling little stories don't stir something in the reader and they're not falling all over themselves to shower us with the five star reviews we deserve. If they cannot see the genius in our words, it's on them, not us, but we need to remain calm and cool and put the sharp and pointy things away.

But, no, it's not really like any other job. Not like many other jobs. Writing is an art form. It is subjective. If I fail to impress clients, coworkers or superiors at my other job, it's probably because I'm neglecting someone, passed the wrong meds, etc. With writing, it does not matter how wonderful our stories are. The reader is coming in with expectations for the story and if we don't deliver, they won't be satisfied. And some readers can be awfully picky. Like the child that won't eat because the Brussels sprouts look like little alien brains and are too squishy, some readers won't read a story if the spacing is wrong, if the first word of the paragraph is not indented enough, if the chapters are too long or the book is too short.

I find it is best not to worry too much about the readers I didn't make happy. I focus on the positive reviews and ask myself how I can keep reaching for people like that.


message 33: by Bonnie (new)

Bonnie Ferrante (bonnieferrante) Would anyone like to participate in a triad picture book review? (Amazon frowns on and sometimes deletes direct review swaps.) Author A would review Author B. Author B would review Author C. Author C would review Author A


message 34: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee Okay,

All of you have talked me into it. I'm not going to give anymore free books away for reviews. I've long stopped the KDP select free giveaway because I felt it wasn't fair to the ones that paid. Also, thousands of my books were given away, and I read where the readers admit they never get a chance to read the books because they swiped up so many free ones, I mean, come on!

I'm going to try other methods that were offered, although I thought you had to be a bestseller before any magazine would think of interviewing you. They don't do self-published unknowns.

I'll just contact the reliable reviewers who have already agreed to review my future work. It's like I said before, 99% of my reviews and ratings are from those that bought my books. Those that got it for the "receive a free copy for a review" didn't bother in most cases--like in J.D.'s list in message 17, they're either number 2 or 4.

So, in the future, if a reader BOUGHT the book and wants to give a review good or bad, fine, I'll appreciate it. If not, that's fine, too. But it won't be because it was free.

Thanks, everyone. You have helped me tremendously. I hope other authors with this kind of worry will come here and read the good advice given:)


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

This thread has been as Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating!" I have learned more about what the current book review game is for indie authors in a few trips to this well of information than I could ever have imagined. Bravo all!


message 36: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Charles wrote: "This thread has been as Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating!" I have learned more about what the current book review game is for indie authors in a few trips to this well of information than I could ..."

As long as someone learns from collective experience, nothing is really wasted.

And as Dwayne stated, writing (as an art) isn't like most other professions. I've seen lousy doctors practicing the art of medicine, and if they were employed based on reviews of their job performance many of them would be and should be unemployed.


message 37: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee Charles wrote: "This thread has been as Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating!" I have learned more about what the current book review game is for indie authors in a few trips to this well of information than I could ..."

Which is why I'm so glad I started this thread. Not only did I learn a lot from the wealth of information posted, but you and others did, too.

As R.F.G. stated: As long as someone learns from this, nothing is wasted.


message 38: by Theresa (new)

Theresa (theresa99) | 535 comments Dwayne wrote: "But, no, it's not really like any other job. Not like many other jobs. Writing is an art form. It is subjective. If I fail to impress clients, coworkers or superiors at my other job, it's probably because I'm neglecting someone, passed the wrong meds, etc. With writing, it does not matter how wonderful our stories are. The reader is coming in with expectations for the story and if we don't deliver, they won't be satisfied. ..."

You have an excellent point, Dwayne. I guess I needed to be more exact in what I was trying to say. I apologize, I did not mean to infer that the actual job of writing was like others, but that our behavior should remain professional just as if we receive critical feedback, etc. at other jobs.

(That's not to say that we don't all know someone who acts unprofessional and is still on the job. As R.F.G. stated, some doctors are proof of that).


message 39: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 31, 2015 05:13AM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Gisela wrote: "@Groovy

If you sent the books to a ranked top reviewers there is a good chance that the reviewers overlooked your book. I am a top reviewer and I have 41 in queue. And, yes, I too have overlooked ..."


Um. First of all anyone expecting "professionalism" from consumer reviews and consumer reviewers is looking in the wrong place. We're NOT professional reviewers. If you're treating this as your profession I'll disregard your reviews in the future - I don't care for professional reviews.

Secondly I am not a top reviewer, in part because I refuse to list my place of residence on my profile. And I resent your assertion that readers here that aren't "top reviewers" aren't as good as top reviewers.

Just because someone doesn't post hundreds of reviews, or live in a area with few GR users, doesn't mean they're any less likely to leave a review if provided a review copy.

Personally if I'd agreed to review in exchange for a book I'd do so. If there was a good reason I felt I could not I'd let the author know.

It is true some readers won't follow through, and for those that don't there's nothing much that can be done.

But that has NOTHING to do with someone being a "top reviewer" or not.

ETA: I just checked Gisela, and you're not a Top Reviewer on GR.

You do also know that when you receive a free copy in exchange for a review that must be disclosed on the review.

"@Jim, I could not agree more with you. Readers have to know you are serious. In the "olden days" authors published short essays for free in newspapers (I guess that has been replaced by blogs) but they NEVER gave away FREE books (other than ARCs to book reviewers) and that is exactly the situation, that needs to be restored."

This is quite interesting, as this is precisely how I found a new favorite series of mine.

The first book in the series is free for Kindle. It sounded interesting to me, but also mentioned there were vampires in the story and I tend to avoid stories with vampires. But since it did look interesting otherwise and it was free I gave it a try. I LOVED it. I quickly purchased #2 and #3 in the series which are currently available, and expect to buy #4 and #5 when they become available.

I've now read the first two in the series and left a 4 star review for the first and a 5 star review for the second.

If the first book hadn't been free I most likely would not have purchased it because it was an unknown author, and I don't typically like stories with vampire characters.


message 40: by Anfenwick (new)

Anfenwick (anne-fenwick) | 10 comments I feel like it would be a good idea to make previews available when requesting reviews anyway.

Here's the thing: if I said I would review someone's book and on reading it turned out not to be my kind of thing at all, that's not necessarily a point against the book. But it makes it hard (and pointless) to review fairly. What could you expect - 3-stars and an explanation of what the book is like and why it doesn't interest me? That kind of thing can't feel great to authors, especially those with few reviews.

Under those circumstances, I would think it fairer to leave the book unreviewed.


message 41: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 31, 2015 05:17AM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments B.R. wrote: "By FTC regulation, the disclaimer needs to be posted on any book review that is published anywhere. And since many (most?) reviewers don't go out and buy the books they review, this will occur on most reviews. "

The disclaimer doesn't need to be posted on any book review published anywhere.

It's not required of professional reviews, which are obviously posted/published as professional reviews.

It IS required of consumer reviews IF a book was provided.

MOST consumer reviewers on GR and Amazon DO actually purchase the book they post the review for. These are CONSUMER reviews.

Obviously the disclaimer does not apply to consumer reviews where the consumer has purchased the product - which is the majority of consumer reviews.

So no, the disclaimer will NOT display on "most" reviews.

The vast majority of the books I read I have purchased myself. In very rare cases have I read an ARC. My reviews are honest.


message 42: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 31, 2015 05:30AM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Sarah wrote: "I did a "Free" promotion that resulted in a good number of downloads, but no reviews... or if there were any they appeared a long time afterwards and could have been from sales.

I've just complete..."


I tend to ignore them too unless the particular reviewer is known to me as one who WILL post their HONEST opinion. Many of them thankfully do, good or bad.

Unfortunately too often I've seen people who want to post a positive review to please the author, not mentioning obvious and objective issues. So I have learned to be wary.

Sometimes in reading them you can get a decent feel for if the reviewer is being forthright and honest though. If it sounds like ad copy rather than a consumer review that's a pretty glaring sign not to trust it.


message 43: by Dwayne (last edited Mar 31, 2015 06:38AM) (new)

Dwayne Fry | 349 comments Gisela wrote: "Authors have to stand up and simply stop giving books away for free. Nobody else gives his work away, no electrician, no plumber, no movie extra, whose work may be to stand on a street corner and hold a newspaper..."

Doesn't sound like "standing up" to me. Sounds like conforming to what authors that do not give away books think is the best way to do business. I give away stories from time to time and will continue to do so. I see no reason to stop.

If you were managing a grocery store and you had some kind of giveaway or contest or whatever and it brought in some new customers, would you continue doing this? Now, what if the guy down the street that owns another grocery store said you had to "stand up" and stop having giveaways? Are you going to stop just because another business owner doesn't do business the way you do? I wouldn't.

I don't fear the "this wasn't for me" review. I have had a couple. In one, the reviewer said that the story was weird and strange and didn't go the way she expected. This is actually a good thing. She gave me two stars, sure, but she's also tipping off readers that want strange and unpredictable stories that this might be something they would enjoy.

"Bad" reviews are all about perspective. Often times if you look at them constructively and not let your emotions get in the way, you can see a use for them.

And my uncle was a plumber and often did work for free for people that needed it and couldn't afford it. Some people are like that, I guess.


message 44: by Alexandra (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Dwayne wrote: "Gisela wrote: "Authors have to stand up and simply stop giving books away for free. Nobody else gives his work away, no electrician, no plumber, no movie extra, whose work may be to stand on a stre..."

From a reader perspective a "not for me" review doesn't mean I won't like it, so those aren't as bad as it might feel to an author. I've actually bought books due to negative reviews and passed on books due to positive reviews. Tastes differ. A good review is an honest review.


message 45: by R.F.G. (new)

R.F.G. Cameron | 443 comments Dwayne,

At various times I've done a bit of carpentry work. I've built wheelchair ramps and done other similar work pro bono as the person in need couldn't afford to pay me $60 to $70 an hour.

As a writer, I'll give copies of my writing away if I'm contacted directly. I set up economy prints to make my work more affordable.

I've done a number of things during my life gratis. It's part of what I learned growing up.

And now it's time for my "Bad Dad" review as someone wants more num-nums dished out. Ciao


message 46: by Christine PNW (new)

Christine PNW (moonlight_reader) | 2 comments I think that a lot of authors have a bit of a misperception that they are losing money if they give away books. You are only losing money if the reader who received your free book would have bought it if it had not been free.

I'm quite similar to Christine, actually, in that I quit taking free books three years ago because I found that they were largely unreadable, and I have a TBR pile that probably exceeds my maximum life span right now, today (which doesn't stop me from buying books, but, I digress). But if you give away a book that you would otherwise sell for, say, $2.99, you are only out $2.99 if the person who now has the free book would have purchased your book for $2.99.

Of course, this post is only valid if the giveaways are of ebooks/PDFs. If the giveaway is a print book, then you are obviously out the cost of the book as well as the postage for mailing. This can definitely add up, even if you assume that the reader wouldn't have bought your book and that therefore you haven't lost the value of the sale. There may be legitimate reasons to run print giveaways - to raise your author profile, etc. - but everything I've read leads me to the conclusion that many of the authors who do giveaways are pretty dissatisfied with the way that they turn out.


message 47: by Davida (new)

Davida Chazan (chocolatelady) | 94 comments Auntie J wrote: "I've actually bought books due to negative reviews and passed on books due to positive reviews. Tastes differ. A good review is an honest review. "

I couldn't agree more. I recall quite a few reviews I've written that received only about three out of five stars from me, but people have said that despite the drawbacks I noted, they were interested in buying the book. If we, as reviewers, do our jobs correctly, the readers will be able to make their own minds up.


Paganalexandria Davida wrote: "Auntie J wrote: "I've actually bought books due to negative reviews and passed on books due to positive reviews. Tastes differ. A good review is an honest review. "

I couldn't agree more. I recall..."


A couple of years ago this dino-porn book went viral. There was a hilarious "bad" review here that not only got me to buy another from the author, but inspired a gag buddy read in one of the groups here. That meant a low star review got over 18 people to pay $2.99 for 18 page book! Sometimes those gif filled shredding reviews work as reverse advertising. There is a particular scathing review on a popular blog, that changed my view on book previously not liked. It's now my book version of Showgirls, and I'm always selling it to others by reading that review. Another case of a bad review on my count alone that sold over 20 books. Look at all the "bad" reviews that helped make Fifty Shades of Grey the megahit it is. Fan or hater money spends the same.


message 49: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee I've come to view bad reviews, thanks to the advice from a lot of you on another thread, as a badge of honor. If it weren't for bad reviews, I wouldn't have realized that I wrote in past tense and present tense in the same paragraph; And I really appreciated the readers letting me know this. And as has been said, bad reviews peeks the interests of other readers and makes them want to check your book out.

What gets me is when someone agrees to review your work for a free copy, but then you don't hear from them. Even if you didn't like the book and didn't want to post a bad review, at least email me and let me know you tried but it wasn't for you. That's all I'm asking. And why have a boatload of free books stored up that you may never get to? Especially, when you told the author you'd gladly post one for a free copy?

When I used to do KDP free giveaway's and thousands were downloaded, I thought, "great now I'll get some reviews"--NOTHING!


message 50: by Dwayne (new)

Dwayne Fry | 349 comments Auntie J wrote: "I've actually bought books due to negative reviews and passed on books due to positive reviews."

I continue to buy books by authors I like, despite the negative reviews they get. My favorite author is Kurt Vonnegut. Some people absolutely hate his style and I've seen more than one person declare that he can't write. Does that bother me? Not in the least. Bad reviews on authors I admire and were successful, such as Twain or Hemingway, can actually inspire me to continue writing, despite the occasional snitty review. Reviewers review. It's what they do. Writers write. It's what we do.


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