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Announcing the New Follow Author Button
This will worsen the already rather strenuous reader/author relationship.Already now I am losing friends and know other authors are experiencing the same thing.
Steelwhisper wrote: "This will worsen the already rather strenuous reader/author relationship.Already now I am losing friends and know other authors are experiencing the same thing."
Yep. I'm in the rather painful phase of trying to decide what to do about my author friends that I'm now forced to follow as authors. Though I've only a few, this situation bothers me greatly. They are my friends for reasons that don't involve their author status. This change muddies things and devalues the meaning of friending a person who happens to be an author.
It also severely devalues those users who formerly were fans. Not necessarily friends before, nor followers, but appreciating one's writing.I can't say how much I loathe this change. I wonder who among the allegedly surveyed authors was in favour of this? I asked around and so far found not even someone who actually was surveyed.
Sorry for the double post but edit isn't cooperating with me. I highly recommend authors who haven't already done so check out the thread in Feedback regarding this change and how it's affecting people. https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...I think it's important for authors to understand the issues that now exist so that they don't assume that any sudden surge of unfriending / unfollowing is personal - it isn't, it's a response to a change that simply does not work for some of us and the way we view our relationships with others on Goodreads.
Steelwhisper wrote: "... I wonder who among the allegedly surveyed authors..."Hey! I bet those authors were in the same ... focus group? ... as the readers who "overwhelmingly" wanted more author contact.
Not the first time the author options for readers were tweaked. I think they buried "favorite" a bit. And I wish how author Q&A displayed/filtered in feed had gotten tweaked for when an author was followed.
Someone should tell all those folks wanting re-read features, bug fixes for the randomly rating Stars, and such that they are (despite what the threads seem to indicate) not the overwhelming majority for reader requests ...
Since this feature can wind up disconnecting the "friend" relationship between authors and other members, -- what should we be explaining to friended authors? (I have no clue how authors friending other authors now works since I have no author-account).
Hey folks, just cross posting what I put in the Feedback Group. Basically, we're taking a second look at the friend aspect of this, and we'll update you all on what might change next week. Sorry for the confusion/distress this caused.
Maybe it's just me, but I think this is a positive initiatuve. As an author it would allow me connections to more than 5000 people. Why is everyone getting so precious about it?I'm not looking to get into an argument but how specifically does this worsen the "already rather strenuous reader/author relationship," how specifically does it "devalue the meaning of 'friending' someone," and how specifically will the friendships be lost?
What am I missing?
Karl wrote: "What am I missing? ..."You are missing that not every author is here to market their books. A lot are here as readers and to discuss books with readers.
You are missing that people in general do not want to have their arms twisted into becoming "followers" of other people just because they have written a book.
You are missing the difference between fan, friend and follower.
You obviously also are missing that the people whose arms have been twisted *again* to swallow marketing crap are right now busily DELETING the authors on their friendlists, because they don't want to be forced into endorsing books or marketing authors nillywilly. Which means that these authors will lose a friend and come out with less "connections" than before.
So, what else is there not to understand here? Do you enjoy being forced into marketing other people's goods? How about some advertisements spraypainted onto your car, possibly for goods you never used or dislike? No? Then have a think again why people dislike this change.
I've only a few author friends, and not many GR friends in total because I'm pretty quiet outside of a few groups, and I'm also kind of choosy about accepting requests. I've kept my author friends, but I do hope that Patrick's update means that they will once again separate the friend & follow functions.Karl wrote: "Maybe it's just me, but I think this is a positive initiatuve. As an author it would allow me connections to more than 5000 people. Why is everyone getting so precious about it?"
As Steelwhisper explained, it's about being forced to participate in a marketing relationship in order to be friends with someone. It's also about the new "feature" highlighting follower status over friend status. As a musician, I can't help but think that it's a lot like if I just started referring to all of my friends as fans regardless of whether they even like my music. I'd probably lose a lot of friends if I did that but that's kind of what GR is forcing authors to do.
It's separating authors from readers even further (emphasizing the latter as a commercial entity and the former as a consumer rather than as equal individual people whose associations can fall anywhere on the spectrum) and taking away their freedom to define their relationships as they choose.
Owww thats explained why my 21 precious fans are now turned into 214 followers!
Steelwhisper, don't get your knickers in a twist, I was only asking.Christa, I think I'm getting it, and thank you. You can now 'friend' readers and 'follow' authors, but you can't 'friend' authors, is that correct?
So if I want to discuss a particular book with an author I've got to be actually 'following' him/her first.
Oh well, that's not such a big deal, is it? Not worth getting all upset about.
Karl wrote: "Steelwhisper, don't get your knickers in a twist, I was only asking."Well, maybe you don't care how you come across and who you're friends with, but I do. I don't wear knickers, but you might try to have a gander here...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
...and meet a couple of people who really are furious now.
Not everything is a laughing matter.
Karl wrote: "Christa, I think I'm getting it, and thank you. You can now 'friend' readers and 'follow' authors, but you can't 'friend' authors, is that correct?"You can still friend them, but readers that friend authors will automatically be following them also, and the two are inseparable. I can't un-follow and author friend without also un-friending them. In addition, the profile pages now feature follower relationships more prominently.
It's kind of a big deal to some people. My being friends with someone has nothing to do with their writing ability or whether I like their books. Those things should not be forced into the friendship.
One of the big differences between author profiles and regular profiles is the blog posts written by authors. I generally accept all friend requests, but if the following problems aren't corrected soon I may be forced to discriminate against authors.
My updates feed is set to top friends and followers. Before the change I only saw blog posts from authors I had chosen by becoming their fan.
One of the optional emails from goodreads is a weekly list of the blog posts written by authors you are following, previously that only including an authors when you were their fan and now it includes all of your author friends.
Thanks for the great feedback, everyone. As Patrick mentioned, we are actively looking at the friending aspect of this interaction and determining the best course of action for updating this. We'll let you know soon about any changes!
Karl wrote: "connections to more than 5,000 people...What am I missing? ..."Well, you won't get connections to any more people than you would under the old system (readers still have to find you and choose to follow/fan you).
Authors instead are losing existing connections. Authors are being unfriended so not to be advertised on our profiles (because goodreads decided to change "friend" to following, because readers now confused or because messaging and friending just got obscured...)
When author was a friend, we could also ensure their posts were seen on our feed before everything else by making them a "top friend" (default if you forget to uncheck it when accepting friend requests). So, this is anither way it's not a better author connection to readers.
And, it's not potentially 5,000+ connections possible, goodreads has more than 20+ million members (realistically not all are active or might read in genre you write in).
We already had options to fan, follow or friend authors that were pretty clearcut. And everyone got to choose fan, follow, or friend however worked for them. Generally, readers want more controls, not fewer. Even if change was popular, being made with no notice so they did not get a chance to adjust their connections to authors to suit them (or explain why no longer friends) has upset many.
Particulalry any changes impacting their public profiles is an issue for many readers. Bet you'd not be real thrilled if readers got to change your author profile.
Goodreads started as a readers community (TOS still says commercial use is prohibited) and authors were here participating as readers (goodreads still suggests that). So over the years many of us have become friends in various book club activities (groups), book discusons, book of the month reads, books in commin, etc. — even if we'd never read their book. Organizing friends (and book catalogs until Sept. 2013 unannounced changes ) is something we've taken for granted — surprise changes to that are going to upset many.
I'm still a little confused on how they've changed the friending part (I did eventually find where it said if I was a friend of an author). I'm still not sure how I would send author a friend request now that it's changed. They "hid" things that used to be clear.
For fear of spam, privacy concerns or stalker-y things—some readers never accepted author friend requests and vice versa. The friend, fan and following connections were very specifically want we wanted them to be. Sometimes I friended an author I enjoyed in books discussions, which for me indicated a "trust" that I wouldn't be just a marketing target but rather did enjoy the conversation (okay, so I accepted everybody then blocked the a-holes but it worked for me).
It's oddly dehumanizing to authors that they can no longer be considered fellow reader friends participating on the site just like anyone else and to reduce the reader connection to being just a follower.
I'm really not sure how goodreads decided readers want fewer controls, less privacy and more connections to and promoting of authors. That seems to go against everything I've heard from readers here and other book sites.
I'm a new author and was happy to have more than a handful of fans. However, with this new change no one would ever know by looking at my profile that I ever had one fan. My ratio of followers to friends is too close. When I dug deeper into my stats, I found that Goodreads only counts half of my previous fans as actual fans. I know its silly to worry about such things, but social networks are fueled by feedback. By taking out the fan feature, Goodreads just removed something that felt like a badge of sorts for authors. I have lots of friends who are authors, but I've never read their books. So this feature really means nothing and is a step in the wrong direction. What an unfortunate decision.
J. wrote: "I'm a new author and was happy to have more than a handful of fans. However, with this new change no one would ever know by looking at my profile that I ever had one fan. My ratio of followers to f..."Sorry that happened to you.
Yes..yes..my precious 21 fans.. (Ive never ever considered that I would have those!)
S. wrote: "Yes..yes..my precious 21 fans.. (Ive never ever considered that I would have those!)"Me too. I liked my 60+ fans, I really miss them. NO, I do not want them on top of those nearly 500 followers. I'm not some damned cult, guru or yogi or whatever who needs a following or followers. I want the old system back.
Because that's what is so insidious: on the package it says "look at the shiny new button!", but this isn't just about a change from many buttons to one dropdown menu. You changed functionality and interaction, which is far more important--and completely forgot to mention it to people too. I've author friends who are just now noticing their friend lists are rapidly dwindling and they don't understand why.
Karl wrote: "Steelwhisper, don't get your knickers in a twist, I was only asking...."
Karl, what you are missing is that this actually detracts from the value of 'true' fans. Anyone who has actually read and cherished an authors work enough to hit the 'fan' button, they are now lumped in the same group as your (Goodreads) designated followers.
What you are missing is that just because someone wants to be your friend, it doesn't naturally follow that they want to become a fan or follow you.
This ill thought out decision will only serve to further denigrate the relationship between authors and 'people'(as Goodreads likes to call them). Hey, I know, I write books, but I'm people too! Capeesh?
The only authors who seem in favor of this change are those with large numbers of friends (though quite how anyone ends up with thousands of online friends?), and who now have inflated numbers of followers regardless of writing talent. That's not a dig at you specifically, as I don't know which camp you rest in, but there does seem to be an observable pattern emerging.
As I said previously; friends is friends, fans is fans, and followers is followers. Simples.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
J. wrote: "I'm a new author and was happy to have more than a handful of fans. However, with this new change no one would ever know by looking at my profile that I ever had one fan. My ratio of followers to f..."Well said, J. When a newby author arrives on Goodreads, it is only natural to look longingly towards those authors with fans. I said elsewhere, we authors can be an insecure lot. In the early days, whenever a stranger buys and reads your work, and then declares themselves to be a fan, it feels good. Almost like a badge of honor.
Goodreads has ripped that away, and I honestly don't like the possible ethics behind it.
There are/were authors on this site with literally thousands of friends, and less than five fans. Under the new system, these same people are now being promoted as 'successful' authors, and I think this is the crux of the reason for these changes. Very shoddy!
I received an email today from other authors I am apparently now following rather than just friends with - distinctly unimpressed. If I wasn't aware that this change had been made by GR I would be cross with the authors concerned as they will probably be cross with me. I feel like I have been spammed and I have no idea why GR has made this unnecessary change
Patrick wrote: "Exciting news today for authors on Goodreads! We’ve replaced the “Become a Fan” button on your author profile with “Follow Author.” Why are we making this change? We want to make it easier for our ..."This is not good news it will just annoy what few readers, fans we have
Philip wrote: "I received an email today from other authors I am apparently now following rather than just friends with - distinctly unimpressed. If I wasn't aware that this change had been made by GR I would be ..."*sigh*. Many will blame authors for the emails anyway. Some of my friends aren't waiting for Monday's response before dropping authors because of the increased mess seeing on the goodreads feed.
Karl wrote: "Steelwhisper, don't get your knickers in a twist, I was only asking."Not sure if you don't realize, or just don't care, how misogynistic and disrespectful you come across here.
M. Caspian wrote: "Karl wrote: "Steelwhisper, don't get your knickers in a twist, I was only asking."Not sure if you don't realize, or just don't care, how misogynistic and disrespectful you come across here."
I think every one has a point of view and the perspective has to be taken for what it is. I don't see the disrespect in the opinion. (I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's just my opinion).
Paul wrote: "I think every one has a point of view and the perspective has to be taken for what it is. I don't see the disrespect in the opinion. (I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's just my opinion). ..."It's not voicing the opinion M. Caspian objects to. It's the fact that Karl chose a sexist ad hominem attack to downplay *my* opinion about this change. And that he apparently, in an avuncular and chummy way believes it is even funny or at least excused via alleged humour. Which is what misogynic men do a lot.
In this instance, and as M. Caspian knows, he is assigning female gendering to a genderqueer/genderfluid person, which adds insult on top of injury.
Or to reply in kind: a dick move.
Steelwhisper wrote: "S. wrote: "Yes..yes..my precious 21 fans.. (Ive never ever considered that I would have those!)"Me too. I liked my 60+ fans, I really miss them. NO, I do not want them on top of those nearly 500 ..."
I would love to have the old system back as well. I no longer see an option to do a friend request for authors. All I see is the follow button. Am I missing something or is that all there is now. I liked having the option to follow, friend request, or become a fan. There was no mixed messages with that system.
You can use the pulldown menu to friend an author, BUT this will auto-add that author to your following list on top of your friend list.:(
Steelwhisper wrote: "You can use the pulldown menu to friend an author, BUT this will auto-add that author to your following list on top of your friend list.:("
Thanks, Steelwhisper. I'll check it out.
Patrick wrote: "Hey folks, just cross posting what I put in the Feedback Group. Basically, we're taking a second look at the friend aspect of this, and we'll update you all on what might change next week. Sorry fo..."Hopefully your reconsidering more than just the friend aspect, as pretty much every aspect of this change is detrimental to readers and authors.
Karl wrote: "Maybe it's just me, but I think this is a positive initiatuve. As an author it would allow me connections to more than 5000 people. Why is everyone getting so precious about it?I'm not looking to..."
It FORCE "following author" upon Friends who interact as READERS and are NOT readers of that authors books. I am not willing to display as endorsing as an author someone whose books I have not read, will not read, simply because I am their Friend. It's using ME to mislead and deceive and I do not like it.
It also further differs how user profiles and author profiles function in ways that are unnecessary, detrimental to authors who are readers and are insulting to users who aren't authors. The profiles should look and function in basically the same way for all users with simply a few extras for authors.
It also removes our ability to "follow reviews" for someone who happens to have written a book.
I've dumped nearly all my friends, following and favorites for authors due to this.
Karl wrote: "Steelwhisper, don't get your knickers in a twist, I was only asking.Christa, I think I'm getting it, and thank you. You can now 'friend' readers and 'follow' authors, but you can't 'friend' autho..."
We can still friend authors, however that then automatically sets us as also "following author" and displays us as such on both our profile and theirs when often it's them as readers we are friends with and we are NOT fans of their books, forcing many of us to unfriend people we'd like to be friends with so it doesn't appear we endorse them as authors.
And that's only a part of what is wrong with these changes, so yes, much to be upset over.
I am friends with several authors that write in genres I do not read, and likely will never read (fantasy, romantic suspense). I enjoy interacting with them on the feeds, but I don't want me 'endorsing' them on my profile page listing them as fans. How can I be a fan of an author/book that I haven't read?
I am trying to wait for the different-timezone-from me goodreads meeting before unfollowing friended authors. I really wish I could unfollow someone without unfriending.Someone over in the general feedback group pointed out that the opening post here said authors should friend people so people could send the author messages (I hadn't noticed the different wording).
Just curious since I have no author account -- does that mean authors can no longer customize their privacy settings to specify if they want messages from everyine or only from friends? Has goodreads now just set your inbox to friends only (maybe to get more people to use the author Q&A or to increase your followers or something)?
D.A. wrote: "Just curious since I have no author account -- does that mean authors can no longer customize their privacy settings to specify if they want messages from everyine or only from friends? Has goodreads now just set your inbox to friends only (maybe to get more people to use the author Q&A or to increase your followers or something)? "I don't think so. I just went to the page of an author who is not my friend, and I was able to select "send message" from the almost-invisible drop-down and it took me to the compose message page.
Update from goodreads staff is at https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... (not effective immediately but in progress).
Sorry for the confusion, but yes, we are working on some changes that will once again make "friend" completely separate from "follow." You can check out more in the feedback group:https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Patrick, or anyone else who can answer for that matter: I am an author ( I don't know if this is relevant, or does this apply to everyone?), there doesn't appear to be any obvious way for me to identify who I am following?Am I missing something? If so, then please point me in the right direction.
What happened to me was truly weird. I'm a really-new author, with one small ebook, and (under the previous system) one (God bless her) fan. However, I had 36 friends and "fanned" those that were authors, along with other authors I admire. Then I woke up one day, and found I had 40+ followers! Wow! Then I realized GR had turned everybody into followers, and got depressed again. Meanwhile, my one fan (God bless her) is lost in the shuffle. System definitely needs fixing.
Good...I thought it was just me!! Yesterday when I used to friend people and there was also a Google and Facebook "like" button and then...poof...it brings up the author page and a Follow button! I am glad you guys brought it up. It would be nice if they were to give you a heads up or something? I didn't even think to look to see if the people I am following were the same...I will have to look. Thanks!
Hey folks, I'm cross-posting this from the feedback group, as I want to make sure we have accurate info everywhere. Here's what I just posted in the feedback group:
Thanks for your patience - here’s the latest update. There’s a fair amount of complexity with this project so it’s going to take some time to make the changes. The team’s working hard and are aiming to roll out things within the following timeline:
* List of people you're following changed back to one list (with options to see just authors or just non-authors): Next week.
* Note on the author profile when the author is following you or when you are friends with the author: Next week.
* Removal of “Following” when you are friends with an author: about 3 weeks.
As for options like being able to sort followers as you do friends, we’re currently looking into whether that would add a lot of time to this project. If it doesn’t, we may be able to do it quickly. If it does, I’ll add it to our list of requested features, as I think it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the suggestion.
I’ll keep you posted on further updates. Again, I really appreciate the feedback you’ve given us.
Could you please explain why a decision was taken to make 'fans' into 'followers'? For starters, it is misleading. Just because I may wish to follow someones reviews, it doesn't automatically mean I am a fan of their novels/books.Likewise, just because someone happens to be my friend, it doesn't automatically follow that they are a fan of my writing.
As things currently stand, there are authors who, two weeks ago, had literally a handful of fans, but thousands of friends. These same people are now being touted as having more followers than writers such as Joe Hill, Clive Barker, James Herbert, Christopher Rice, and so on and so forth. It's a nonsense.
May I humbly ask you all something? How does one get their book featured on the Kindle Daily Deals lists or such? I don't mean to insult anyone if this is a simple thing--but I am a total neophyte with my fist book out there and so I am clueless, Thank you.
Eileen wrote: "May I humbly ask you all something? How does one get their book featured on the Kindle Daily Deals lists or such? I don't mean to insult anyone if this is a simple thing--but I am a total neophyt..."You sell a lot of books, and generate a lot of buzz. At that point, amazon will feature your book, which will cause you to sell even more books.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "Eileen wrote: "May I humbly ask you all something? How does one get their book featured on the Kindle Daily Deals lists or such? I don't mean to insult anyone if this is a simple thing--but I am ..."Is that what happens? I'm not sure. Seems to me like a lot of times the books are pretty unknown, and sometimes they're old releases - some probably had buzz at the time, and some old popular kids books, etc.
It seems a mix to me, with the majority not being all that much "buzzed".
Auntie J wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "Eileen wrote: "May I humbly ask you all something? How does one get their book featured on the Kindle Daily Deals lists or such? I don't mean to insult anyone if this is..."The ones I've noticed are pretty popular. There was a Susanna Kearsley today. Richelle Mead has been featured. The first eight Dresden files. Maybe it's just what I'm aware of?
THE Group for Authors!
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After reading through everyone's feedback, we've decided to make some changes so being a friend does not also make you a follower. Here's the full update from today, complete with a timeline for when fixes will be made:
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your patience - here’s the latest update. There’s a fair amount of complexity with this project so it’s going to take some time to make the changes. The team’s working hard and are aiming to roll out things within the following timeline:
* List of people you're following changed back to one list (with options to see just authors or just non-authors): Fixed as of 4/3.
* Note on the author profile when the author is following you or when you are friends with the author: Fixed as of 4/1.
* Removal of “Following” when you are friends with an author: about 3 weeks.
As for options like being able to sort followers as you do friends, we’re currently looking into whether that would add a lot of time to this project. If it doesn’t, we may be able to do it quickly. If it does, I’ll add it to our list of requested features, as I think it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the suggestion.
I’ll keep you posted on further updates. Again, I really appreciate the feedback you’ve given us.
__________________________________
Exciting news today for authors on Goodreads! We’ve replaced the “Become a Fan” button on your author profile with “Follow Author.” Why are we making this change? We want to make it easier for our members to get updates from and about the authors they read, and we want to help authors build a stronger connection with their readers. Readers have overwhelmingly told us they want to stay in touch with authors to get news and updates about them and their books. “Follow” is the action we think most clearly accomplishes this.
As you can still have Friends on Goodreads as an author, you’re probably wondering what should you encourage people to do – add you as a Friend or Follow you? There are a couple of reasons why recommending people “Follow” makes the most sense:
1. You can have as many followers as you want, while you’re limited to only 5,000 friends on Goodreads before things start to get a little screwy. So as you grow your career as an author, an option that scales infinitely up – “Follow” - is clearly the better option for you.
2. You don’t have to approve every Follower, while you do have to approve Friends. Again, when you start to get popular, approving hundreds of Friend requests might start to get in the way of what’s really important – writing.
Long story short – we think Follow is the best option for authors with their readers. Of course, if anyone asks to be your Friend, you still have the choice of accepting this. The key difference between a reader who follows you and a reader you are friends with is that the Friend can message you directly. To find out more, check out our FAQ below.
Why is this great for Goodreads Authors?
Simply put, we think this will make it clearer how readers can keep up-to-date with news about authors they like. It will also create a clearer author profile and provide authors with a solution that scales over time.
What happen to all my existing Goodreads Fans?
They are now your Followers. You’re also still listed on their “Favorite Authors” list. Going forward, marking an author as a Favorite Author and Following an author will be entirely separate things.
Where can I see how many people “Follow” me?
You can see your Follower count on your Author Profile (on the left-hand side) and on your Author Dashboard (on the left-hand side).
Where can I see how many people have marked me as one of their “Favorite Authors?”
You can’t. To see which authors an individual Goodreads member has marked as their favorites, go to their profile and look on the right side of the page.
Do people see my updates if they mark me as a “favorite author?”
No, not unless they also follow you. The two actions are separate.
What should I tell people to do on Goodreads – Follow me? Add me as a Favorite Author? Add me as a Friend?
You should ask people to Follow you for all of the reasons laid out above.
What’s the difference between someone following me and someone becoming my Friend?
The biggest difference is that you are automatically following all of your Friends. You also have to approve each and every person who wants to be Friends with you, and your Friends can send you private messages, which Followers cannot (unless you’ve set your messaging settings such that anyone can send you a message).