Who do you think deserves to truly be called a Founding Father?

[Arminius]

I narrow it to four. Three of which America could not do without.

George Washington - the true Father. He was responsible for winning the war, uniting a divided country after victory, creating the model for the presidency among other things.

Alexander Hamilton- creator of the American economy and whose writings probably were responsible for the constitutions adoption.

James Madison - architect of the constitution.

Thomas Jefferson – main author of the Declaration of Independence.

I know some others are considered but the first three are the most important.

[Jim]

good choices

listening 2 Adams v Jefferson by Ferling
discusses the above with main emphasis on all but Washington and discusses who they were in human terms and what political philosophies they espoused.

great book and gives a perspective on American politics that is relevant today.

[Sera]

Execellent list, Arminius. I would add Ben Franklin, who did much of the behind the scenes work, such as getting the French to back American in its break from England. He also helped to outline the principles and structure behind the new government, based on his experiences abroad. Franklin was able to build the infrastructure of this country by creating the first fire department and post office. He saw needs that the new country had and he found ways to fill those needs through the provision of community services. Plus, in my opinion, Franklin became the symbol of what an American would look like by capturing the entraprenurial spirit and essence of what it meant to live in a democratic society that provided many opportunities for individual success.

[☼Bookish]

Yes, I would agree with Sera and would add Ben Franklin as well. His support for radical religious thinkers contributed to the general state of rebellion against Authority.

[Arminius]

Ben Franklin may deserve to be called a "Founder." He was certainly America's most famous citizen and beloved in France but is given too much credit for France's help in the revolution. France had one reason for joining- beating England as a retribution for losing the French and Indian War.

I listed Jefferson because of the Declaration but other than that he was wrong about everything he preached about.

Washington, as a general, is very under-rated. Consider working with a loose confederation of states with no professional Army. When he had an army they were poorly paid and had little equipment. They had short terms as little as 3 months and then a lot of them split. He was forced to take incompetent Generals forced on him by congress like Horatio Gates and Charles Lee. On the other hand, he appointed great Generals like Nathaniel Greene. He tried to promote Benedict Arnold. And Arnold would have not been a traitor if he was given his just due. All of this and he was facing the greatest power on earth.
To defeat the great power he devised the text book approach to how a weak country defeats a powerful one. Which can be stated as: the longer you can drag on a war the likelier that the more powerful country will give up and quit. It worked!

[Arminius]

Jefferson fought for an agrarian economy. This lacked fore-thought. The whole economy could not survive as farmers. Luckily Washington, even though a farmer himself, understood this.

He accused Washington of being a monarch even when Washington relinquished his presidency.

He supported the French revolution ignoring the terror it imposed.

He did not want an army even though there were episodes of British sea authority thrust upon America's ships. Then war with France almost happened during the Adams administration.

He refused to believe the XYZ affair was real.

He opposed the "Jay Treaty" which averted another war with Britian.

He fought for a weak executive then chose to wield that power when he was president.

He was against Washington’s neutrality policy. It helped a weak America stay out of European conflicts.

He chose to study philosophy, nature and other things rather that learn economics and the pressing needs of the country. Then he lambasted Hamilton and Washington through a surrogate never facing them with an honest debate.