Play Book Tag discussion
August 2023: Moral Dilemmas
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Announcing the Tag for August
I almost didn't vote at all because I knew I would be happy with all of them. I do love this topic though. My husband is very excited about seeing the Oppenheimer movie, and I can't think of a better example of a moral dilemma. I also like the small personal stories.
I want to read:
American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer (or see the movie first)
Humankind: A Hopeful History - [I saw a quote that only 15% of soldiers in WWII? were actually willing to shoot at the enemy. That sounds like a moral dilemma to me. I'll find out when I read it.
I recommend:
[book:When We Cease to Understand the World|62069739] (Einstein and other scientists)
The Golem and the Jinni
The Light Between Oceans it's #1 on the list for a good reason. I thought I would hate it (it seemed too heavy handed) but it was executed beautifully imo.
Small Things Like These - I loved this little gem, and there are many books about the real life Magdalen(e) Laundries stories.
Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania - nonfiction.
Moral and Ethical decision making was a research interest when I was a young grad student, and over the years in seminars I used movie examples to illustrate some of the ethics rules, dilemmas, role conflicts, etc. Personal interest versus the greater good is always a good one. The Safety of one versus the many. Short term vs long term moral implications. The trolley car exercise, Coventry, and other famous examples might be linked to blogs or articles with book recommendations. Personal values versus your culture's values is also common. Country, community or organization culture, laws and expectations. Also personal values versus job expectations or role requirements. I think BnB mentioned some blogs and/or related tags.
Popular contexts for moral dilemmas:
Racism
The Magdalene Laundries
War. WWII books are still very popular. I wonder if it's partly because so many of them involve people making difficult moral decisions, and exhibiting the moral courage to see it through.
Espionage stories might work too - e.g. American Spy involved a major moral dilemma. I didn't love the book but that part was fascinating.
Environment/Climate change might involve some moral dilemmas.
Whistleblowers in the Tobacco industry, Dupont Teflon, Financial institutions.
Behold the Dreamers - one character worked for Morgan Stanley (?) and tried to stop them, but the book wasn't really specific about it. (Their actions were one big cause of the economic collapse around 2007-10.)
I also would have been very happy with any of these choices. But I admittedly put a few votes first towards this one. I plan to read Small Things Like Thèse and The Girl Who Wrote in Silk. Meant to read that one for a previous tag, and never got to it. It’s high on my shortlist. Maybe the Casual Vacancy, but that is longer and my book club is doing Demon Copperhead. I also think you don’t know a moral dilemma until it arises, so plenty of what we already read will naturally fit.
One I would recommend is Ethan Frome by Edith Wharton. In fact, several of her books would involve moral dilemmas.
Not what I voted for. We will see what I happen to read and if it fits.
Amy wrote: "I also would have been very happy with any of these choices. But I admittedly put a few votes first towards this one. I plan to read Small Things Like Thèse and The Girl Who Wrote in Silk. Meant ..."
I forgot about the Girl who Wrote in Silk. I really liked it. The Paper Wife also had 2 plotlines that fit.
I also just tagged
Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet
Facing the Mountain: A True Story of Japanese American Heroes in World War II - A few of us read this for the Japan tag
Theresa wrote: "Not what I voted for. We will see what I happen to read and if it fits."I voted for politics too because I had more options for it, but I think many of them might fit this tag too. I won’t know for sure until I read them. I also want to read Lady in Gold (art) and it sounds like that might fit too. I thought I’d speed through this month with all my fast paced adventure books, but it’s not happening.
The Lincoln Highway is next on my list to read for the birthday challenge and it fits the tag. I just finished Project Hail Mary, I highly recommend it and it fits the tag.
Lincoln Highway is perfect! So much discussion there. I hope you love it!
Since there are not many books on the list, I looked through the list of books I've read to see what I can tag to help others. I did tag them, but I want to also mention here a few:The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches - a decision must be made whether to do something that works with the rules or to disobey them and choose the happiness of some children instead
The Henna Artist - Abortion
The Lost Apothecary - I can't say much without giving spoilers
The Woman in the White Kimono
The Chain - if you read the blurb is self explanatory
America's First Daughter - slavery
The Institute
Educated
Before We Were Yours - adoption
The Wonder
Never Let Me Go
I'm hoping to read:I'm Glad My Mom Died
Cantoras
Also thinking about The Grapes of Wrath. I read a non-fiction and an alt history on the dust bowl in the last few weeks and than an essay by LeGuin highly recommending so I feel the need to consider it.
I first looked at a few lists to get some ideas for recommendations and what I might read and then I looked through my recent reads and found so many that had moral dilemmas. I don't think anyone will have a hard time finding a book which contains a moral dilemma.My Recommendations :
Pulled from lists:
The Book Thief
An American Marriage
The Time Traveler's Wife
Outlander
From my recent reads:
The History of a Difficult Child
The Gardens of the Dead
Solito
Hope and Other Dangerous Pursuits
A Place for Us: A Memoir
Swimming Back to Trout River
The House Is on Fire
The Bandit Queens
The Marriage Portrait
The Memory Police
I might read the one of the following:
My Sister, the Serial Killer
The Two Lives of Sara
Beartown
Atonement
Ordinary Grace
Miss Iceland
Harlem Shuffle
The Lacuna
Farenheit 451
Beautiful Ruins
Five star books (For me) that are on this list from the first 200 listed that I recommend are, in the order they appear on the list:Beartown
The Help
Ordinary Grace
All the Light We Cannot See
Gilead
The Dutch House (5 stars for me partly because of the audiobook reading)
Deacon King Kong (Note that this started off as a 1 star but as I went it became a 5 star read for me.)
The Hiding Place
Song Yet Sung: A Novel
Pride and Prejudice -- I don't think I shelved this one moral dilemmas
Big Little Lies
Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania
The Old Man and the Sea
The Martian
I know a lot of people thought this was a pretty broad tag, and I usually hope for the narrow ones, but I wanted this one. It hadn't occurred to me it was broad. I hear this and think of Jodi Picoult or that type. Not sure yet what I'll read, but I wouldn't be surprised if I choose a Picoult.
ETA: ATM leaning toward Plain Truth by Picoult
Jen K wrote: "I'm hoping to read:I'm Glad My Mom Died
Cantoras
Also thinking about The Grapes of Wrath. I read a non-fiction and an alt history on the dust bowl..."
I think this would be a fabulous book for a buddy read. I really want to read it soon too. I'm trying to read as many of our top 100 list as I can this year, and this is way overdue. There should be lots to discuss.
In the audio preview, the narrator sounded a bit like Henry Fonda who starred in the movie. I could enjoy listening to him. We have a long car trip scheduled in August, so I'll be looking for audios my husband might like too.
That's great. Should be able to continue on with adventure since this month has reminded me how much I used to love real world adventure books before my life went to hell and most real world adventure involves a moral dilemma (even if it is just "is it fair on my family to go and do this dangerous stuff? Is it fair on myself not to reach for my dreams? Is it fair not to set an example for my children not to have life goals and go for them?")
I just looked for the short list of books I will read for August from Feminerdy through trimnu ber picks and challenges - not a single moral dilemma in the short stack. Though there are a couple - a mystery and an SFF - that likely will have one even if not tagged. I hope.Meanwhile....browsing through the linked list on GR, I have read a slew that have been tagged moral dilemma - no surprise -with all of those far daker and more serious than I am in the mood to read.
I do have a book I am reading that could be considered one of the grandaddies of the genre, but I am far from being able to finish it in August - Les Miserables.
Theresa wrote: "I just looked for the short list of books I will read for August from Feminerdy through trimnu ber picks and challenges - not a single moral dilemma in the short stack. Though there are a couple - ..."I'm not sure "moral dilemmas" is as broad as many think.
Maybe it just depends what type of books people like to read and/or how central to the story the moral dilemma is?
I chose one my Picoult to read, as I feel like the dilemmas are exactly what her entire books are about!
LibraryCin wrote: "Theresa wrote: "I just looked for the short list of books I will read for August from Feminerdy through trimnu ber picks and challenges - not a single moral dilemma in the short stack. Though there..."For example, in Ethan Frome should Ethan live in a loveless marriage wih is wife who gave her all to the wellbeing family or runaway with his wife's more exciting cousin would be a moral dilemma. This issue is what drives the plot.
The moral dilemma should be couched in an either-or paradigm.
LibraryCin wrote: "Theresa wrote: "I just looked for the short list of books I will read for August from Feminerdy through trimnu ber picks and challenges - not a single moral dilemma in the short stack. Though there..."I agree, this isn't nearly as broad as people think. Not every time I person chooses between right and wrong is it this. First of all, a dilemma means that it is a difficult choice that someone struggles with, and secondly it's a moral one.
Although they are closely related concepts, ethics and morals are NOT exactly the same thing!
Morals refer mainly to guiding principles whereas ethics refer to specific rules and actions or to behaviours. So a moral dilemma is one where someone is pulled for or against a guiding principle that might have nothing whatsoever to do with a rule, law or behaviour, or that might conflict with a rule, law or behaviour that is in place.
Le Mis has both moral and ethical dilemmas.
But also, the decision to go against these might not actually be a struggle--it could be a pragmatic choice, for example.
it seems to me that this is a great tag for book discussions and could lead to some buddy reads.
Karin wrote: "LibraryCin wrote: "Theresa wrote: "I just looked for the short list of books I will read for August from Feminerdy through trimnu ber picks and challenges - not a single moral dilemma in the short ..."I think moral dilemma probably also varies with the reader and what they consider to be morals. For example I wouldn't consider John's example a moral dilemma personally....I'd just consider Ethan a lazy, selfish bit of pond scum. But I get how others would consider it a moral dilemma. I suspect we are all going to have different examples depending on our own personal beliefs and what we consider just a moral vs a hard and fast non-negotiable we would never even consider breaking. We are an international group with very varied upbringings so I suspect this will have a fair few differences of opinion and hope everyone is as kind and non-judgemental as usual. We will probably learn some quite different perspectives.
Booknblues wrote: "it seems to me that this is a great tag for book discussions and could lead to some buddy reads."Definitely agree with this!
Jen wrote: "I think moral dilemma probably also varies with the reader and what they consider to be morals..."
I also agree that it will vary with the reader.
And really, since this is the monthly tag, people can define it how they wish.
Yes, I agree that we need to respect the fact that there are many factors that influence our moral and ethical beliefs, and kindness and respect are very important within this group. Many ethical and moral rules can be viewed as cut and dry by some points of views (such as by professional standards boards or religions respectively), but they are also cultural and personal so we won't all agree, and that's fine. The ethical and moral principles that guide my decisions tend to be very closely related, but that might not be true for everyone.
When I was teaching a seminar with a particular group, I asked people to identify some of the principles that guide their behavior (the prompts included moral and ethical principles). It was interesting that some people immediately starting writing, and many of the younger people struggled. I suspect that the moral dilemmas we face in life help us clarify our beliefs. They become more clear with life and time.
NancyJ wrote: "Yes, I agree that we need to respect the fact that there are many factors that influence our moral and ethical beliefs, and kindness and respect are very important within this group. Many ethical..."
I'd agree that time does consolidate what we consider to be a moral vs an ethic. For me personally the older I have become the more things have moved to ethics rather than just morals because of the job I chose and seeing the harm caused by some things I had previously been less rigid about.
A pop up from AJ! How wonderful! Welcome back!
Holly R W wrote: "Before the tag came up, I didn't have a personal shelf for books marked as "moral dilemma". I just surprised myself by coming up with 12 books that I think fit this. For those of you who want to se..."Holly I like this list, you have two authors I’d like to try.
These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
Fiction:
Hello Beautiful
The Marriage Portrait
Foster
A Constellation of Vital Phenomena
The God of Small Things
The Snow Child
The Book of Essie
Peace like a river
Angle of repose
The gift of rain
Nonfiction:
The River of Doubt: Theodore Roosevelt's Darkest Journey
Into Thin Air: A Personal Account of the Mount Everest Disaster
The Unsettling of America: Culture and Agriculture by Wendell
Run Towards the Danger: Confrontations with a Body of Memory by Sarah Polley
Fantasy:
The Fifth Season
Six of Crows
Throne of Jade
Hench
On sale at audible
Furious Hours: Murder, Fraud, and the Last Trial of Harper Lee
The Beekeeper of Aleppo
The Measure
When We Were Birds
The Big Finish
The Music of Bees
Miss Benson's Beetle
Still Life Sarah Winman
The Whalebone Theatre
Park Avenue Summer (about Helen Gurley Brown?)
Nonfiction- fiction pair
Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland
Trespasses Louise Kennedy
NancyJ wrote: "These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
..."
I think that The Marriage Portrait definitely has an essential moral dilemma.
I'm sure you will find some moral dilemmas in A Constellation of Vital Phenomena.
There are some in The Music of Bees, but I wouldn't say it was the essence of the book.
Nancy, I am reading Demon Copperhead in August. My Real Life Book Club is doing it.
NancyJ wrote: "These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
Fiction:
Hello Beautiful
[book:The Marr..."
Into Thin Air definitely fits but beware that it is only one biased perspective of the disaster. Beck Weather's perspective (left for dead) and Anatoli Boukreev's perspective (The Climb) were very different. Into Thin Air is the most easily read version but is also the most blame placing towards others.
NancyJ wrote: "These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
Fiction:
Hello Beautiful
[book:The Marr..."
Into Thin Air definitely fits but beware that it is only one biased perspective of the disaster. Beck Weather's perspective (left for dead) and Anatoli Boukreev's perspective (The Climb) were very different. Into Thin Air is the most easily read version but is also the most blame placing towards others.
I own We Will Rise: A True Story of Tragedy and Resurrection in the American Heartland so I am 100% I will read it. I have on my TBR mountain and hope to get to them.
Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow
Small Things Like These
The Indifferent Stars Above: The Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party Bride
I have read and recommend.
The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
Gods of Jade and Shadow
Born a Crime: Stories from a South African Childhood
The Pale Faced Lie
There is a moral dilemma in Miss Benson’s Beetle, though it doesn’t show up till later.
Jen wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
Fiction:
Hello Beautiful ..."
Oh that’s interesting. I like seeing different perspectives of a story. Do you recommend reading more than 1 of the books? Did you have a favorite?
Amy wrote: "Nancy, I am reading Demon Copperhead in August. My Real Life Book Club is doing it."One of my local groups is discussing it in early September, so it’s perfect timing.
Booknblues wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
..."
I think that [book:The Marriage Por..."
Great! These are two I’ve been waiting to read all year.
Jen wrote: "Into Thin Air definitely fits but beware that it is only one biased perspective of the disaster. Beck Weather's perspective (left for dead) and Anatoli Boukreev's perspective (The Climb) were very different. Into Thin Air is the most easily read version but is also the most blame placing towards others. ..."Agreed (though I loved "Into Thin Air")! I have, in the past, recommended Boukreev's "The Climb" as a good follow up, though, as you say, it's not as readable.
NancyJ wrote: "Jen wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "These are definite so farThe Grapes of Wrath
Demon Copperhead
Do you think any of these will fit this tag?
Fiction:
[book:Hello Beautifu..."
I would start with Into Thin Air because he is the writer so it is very well written and very gripping. It is also the one that started all the controversy and caused all the upset so certain parts of The Climb don't make sense without reading that first. Being honest Into Thin Air is excellent as a story but because Krakauer was there primarily as an author not a climber (though he's a decent climber himself) he was looking for a story to make sales. Boukreev was there as a climber/guide and had no intention of writing a book until he needed to give his side of the story. I would definitely read both of those. Very different perspectives but both excellent. Left For Dead is mostly about 1 person (Beck Weathers) because it is his perspective but he doesn't really place much blame on anyone else (even those who could be argued to deserve it) even though Krakauer does on his behalf (against those who were not even in their group). Personally If I were to read them all for the first time now I would have chosen Into Thin Air First (to grab attention and ignite the controversy), then The Climb (for the other side and because it provides what happened after), last Left For Dead because it is pure survival and resilience of the human spirit so it gets rid of any negative aspects from Into Thin Air.
LibraryCin wrote: "Jen wrote: "Into Thin Air definitely fits but beware that it is only one biased perspective of the disaster. Beck Weather's perspective (left for dead) and Anatoli Boukreev's perspective (The Climb..."I loved Into Thin Air until I knew how much offence it had caused. I gave it 5* which is rare for me because it is very well written and did what the Author set out to do. I also gave The Climb 5* and probably loved that even more because it was so honest about Boukreev's feelings and frustration with himself at the time and with not being understood afterwards. Left For Dead I gave 4*.
Jen wrote: "Left For Dead I gave 4*...."I have also read "Left for Dead" but I don't remember it nearly as well! I believe I gave "Into Thin Air" 5 stars, but didn't rate "The Climb" as highly (because it's just not as gripping... of course, Krakauer is a writer), but definitely should be read following "Into Thin Air".
LibraryCin wrote: "Jen wrote: "Left For Dead I gave 4*...."I have also read "Left for Dead" but I don't remember it nearly as well! I believe I gave "Into Thin Air" 5 stars, but didn't rate "The Climb" as highly (b..."
The Climb wasn't as light or dramatized but I still found it gripping. Into Thin Air is the best of "armchair adventure" but The climb made me think...I kept flicking back to Into Thin Air and Left for Dead to see the different perspectives and the different interpretations of what had been written. I think I liked the climb better because Boukreev admitted his own short-comings and felt bad for not being able to do more whereas Krakauer only blamed others and wasn't willing to listen to their justification for their choices. Both are fabulous but Krakauer is a very good writer making sales and Boukreev is a climbing guide who loves the mountains and was defending his reputation. Different perspectives and goals totally.
Glad someone else in here has read both though as it is nice to talk about books I loved with someone else who can see their merit. Have you read Dark Summit? Or come across anything from the earthquake other than the movie?
Jen wrote: "Glad someone else in here has read both though as it is nice to talk about books I loved with someone else who can see their merit. Have you read Dark Summit? Or come across anything from the earthquake other than the movie?..."I have read "Dark Summit' as well. :-) "Into Thin Air" started me on a bunch of mountain climbing books.
LibraryCin wrote: "Jen wrote: "Glad someone else in here has read both though as it is nice to talk about books I loved with someone else who can see their merit. Have you read Dark Summit? Or come across anything fr..."Is it good? I have it on the TBR pile/mountain.
LibraryCin wrote: "Jen wrote: "Into Thin Air definitely fits but beware that it is only one biased perspective of the disaster. Beck Weather's perspective (left for dead) and Anatoli Boukreev's perspective (The Climb..."Cindy, Into Thin Air was one of your 5 star books so I’m using it for your mod candle! I might read more after.
NancyJ wrote: "LibraryCin wrote: "Jen wrote: "Into Thin Air definitely fits but beware that it is only one biased perspective of the disaster. Beck Weather's perspective (left for dead) and Anatoli Boukreev's per..."I agree it is 5* and probably also boosted sales for The Climb because many people want both sides to try to determine the truth.
Jen wrote: "Is it good? I have it on the TBR pile/mountain..."Yes, I thought so. I gave it 4 stars:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
I'm Glad My Mom Died (other topics)Cantoras (other topics)
The Grapes of Wrath (other topics)
The Unsettling of America: Culture and Agriculture (other topics)
I'm Glad My Mom Died (other topics)
More...
moral dilemmas
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Happy Reading!!!