The Wisdom of Crowds (Age of Madness #3)[October 17, 2023]

[Yanique, Thread Master]

This is a Buddy Read for The Wisdom of Crowds by Joe Abercrombie starting on October 17, 2023.


Happy Reading

[Nirkatze]

Thank you!

[Ann-Marie]

Started this afternoon, through part 1 No More Trouble (view spoiler)[and man The Little People was just a perfect example of Abercrombie's writing, showing the revolution through the eyes of those on both sides as things escalated, brutal violence, he does this so well. Poor Orso, that guy cannot catch a break. Now Leo & Savine are free again and the people are cheering the Young Lion with the help of Broad to turn the crowd when it may have turned against Leo. (hide spoiler)]

[Chris]

I started Sunday and I'm still not where I can click that spoiler...heh

[Ann-Marie]

Chris wrote: "I started Sunday and I'm still not where I can click that spoiler...heh"

I can't help but just tear through the books in this world, I love them so much and I recommend them to anyone I see who expresses even a slight interest in SFF lol

[Ann-Marie]

Through part 7 (or 1) (view spoiler)[poor Orso, he ended up surrendering to the Breakers and is being kept captive and put on display. Tunny & Hildi are still helping him as is his sister & her husband (or hoping to anyway). He is not a terrible person, what is happening to him is so sad and he is far from secure, Judge told him when they hanged the Closed Council that it was not his time so who knows what that crazy bitch will do. One thing I noticed is when Orso realized Pike was in charge of the rebellion Pike said he uses the name The Breaker "at times". Can it still be Glotka???? The rebels best watch themselves, Sulfur told them Bayez was not happy and they dismissed him. At the very end of Part 7 they just killed a bunch of people who was part of the rebellion like Risinau much to Pike's and Broad's dismay.

Savine gave birth to twins, Leo is gaining popularity in the new government and has his friends back to help. He is also still a closet case, for sure Savine knows and is manipulating the situation.

Rikke is in charge in the North and trying to maintain control. She has Stour in the cage in the hall but is now stating she will negotiate with Black Calder for his son, not sure if that is legitimate on her part or not? (hide spoiler)]

Loving it so far, no surprise there lol

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

This book was great... a real highpoint in the series, for the most part...

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "This book was great... a real highpoint in the series, for the most part..."

I am loving it so far. Through Better Than Carnage, little less than halfway Part 8/2 (view spoiler)[Bayez has entered the chat again. Like I know that Sulfur is essentially him messing with things but the actual bald bastard is back. Rikke rejected him and has been making a mess of things overall, losing allies and even alienated Ishrin. It was a nice callback to The Heroes where they met with Bayez. Her rejection pushed Bayez right to Black Calder where he promptly dished all of the issues Rikke is having. Clover is at Calder's and seems to have switched sides to save his ass but you never know with that guy. Calder has a huge force as well, things are not boding well for Rikke.....

Sulfur tries to get Savine to ally with Bayez, even going as far as revealing that he knows of her parentage and starts to question about the babies and she loses it on him. Then when she finally comes clean to Leo the first thing he jumps on is the fact that the babies have a claim to the throne.

Orso is in a maybe slightly better position than he was a few chapters before. Things are so bad that people are finally starting to realize and consider acting against Judge who really just needs to die a painful, horrible, terrible death. You see how bad things are in the POVs of Orso, Vick & Broad, I think it was Vick who mentioned that the capital was worse than in the camps. Judge and the extreme Breakers are killing moderates now and Orso recalled the hundreds that Pike hung outside Valbeck, which were the more moderate, reasonable Breakers who may have been open to compromise. Broad is just going downhill in a major way, I think he will likely die in a way that redeems himself and the terrible things he has done. That or be killed in a vile betrayal by Judge (HATE HER).

With Abercrombie you expect dark but the scene where the low level banker was in front of Judge and had evidence that he had done nothing wrong and still got executed, there are occasional scenes like this and those hit hard for me at least. (hide spoiler)]

A little over 10 hours left, hope to have this finished tomorrow. I have 200 Trunk or Treat bags to make up after work so I'll have something to listen to for sure lol

[Ann-Marie]

Regarding Rikke's early vision:

I saw a wolf eat the sun and a lion eat the wolf then a lamb eat the lion then an owl eat the lamb

(view spoiler)[I have been wondering on this for a while, so much that I went back to look it up. So the way I see it:

sun = Union
wolf = Stour
lion = Leo
lamb = Orso
owl = ?

Stour kicked the union's butt, Leo defeated Stour, Orso defeated Leo who defeats Orso? Who is the owl? That person will betray Orso? I feel like he is not going to make it but I can't figure out who will have the opportunity to betray him? Also that sucks, I have grown to like him quite a lot which means of course he will have a horrible death. (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Through Part 8/2 (view spoiler)[OMG Why did I doubt Rikke???? The last 3 chapters of this section were one huge battle between Rikke & Black Calder and it was just chef's kiss perfection. Like seriously, Abercrombie is just the absolute best at this, switching POVs so you see the battle from all sides, violent fighting, not 1, not 2 but 3 surprises (obviously you knew Ishrin would be around once the way Rikke found the spy but it was still a surprise!). When Rikke stabbed Stout in the throat I was like wait a minute.....And then yes, she had Calder right where she wanted him! And Clover Steepfield making a surprise appearance too, this battle had everything! I was kind of sad to see Calder die but we now have Black Rikke!!!!

Here is what I don't get though, was Bayez really on Calder's side? Did he just assume Calder had things in hand and would defeat Rikke so didn't hang around to assure victory?

Also OMG Calder "So you don't see everything...." The dark haired boy, right? Is that his kid????? Maybe the protagonist of another book in the universe at some point.....

Some other stuff happened, Savine is going to be on trial, Leo is, well I am not sure what his plan is. Broad has to come back to his senses, right? I wonder if he will see his daughter or maybe her or his wife will be put on trial and he flips and murders Judge's face. I would not be sad if that happened. Whatever, THAT BATTLE THOUGH!!!!! (hide spoiler)]

Part 9/3 is 6.5 hours at my listening speed, so much time for lots of terrible things to happen!!!!

[Ann-Marie]

Through Sunrise (view spoiler)[so Leo is a complete and total ass and I hate him. So we get to see the fall of the rebellion and while that was done through various POVs (Aberrcrombie uses this technique often and always to good effect) and Savine killed Judge!!!! That was so great to see!!!!! And then Leo had to ruin everything by turning on Orso and claiming the crown for his son like a douche. I was thinking hey maybe my bad feeling about Orso was unfounded! Then that happened and I was like oh yeah, Rikke's prophecy. I think Leo has sunk lower in my estimation than Shivers and that is saying something! (hide spoiler)]

My mom asked me to take her out after work and those excursions are never quick so it'll be tomorrow before I finish.

[Ann-Marie]

Of Your Heart a Stone (view spoiler)[The owl is Rikke! I knew there was too much time left in the book to think Orso would survive. After Savine risked everything to free Orso too, so annoying! I sincerely hate Leo, if there is a follow-up to this then I hope Orso's sister & the Styrians just level the city and causes the Union to dissolve. (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Answers (view spoiler)[Glotka IS the Weaver! I knew it!!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

So I finished (view spoiler)[and there had better be another trilogy at some point because that ending! Who is returned in Rikke's vision? Is it Euz? ugh!

Ending aside though I never in 1 million years would have thought that Bayez would lose his spot as my most hated character with Shivers as a close second but man, Leo went to number 1 by the end of this book. I would not have been mad if Sulfur had eaten his dumbass before Zuri & her "brothers" ate him! I would have enjoyed Bayez exploding Leo as well but alas he still lives......

Poor Orso! I grew to love him which is never a good sign in an Abercrombie book. His "I bloody hate hangings" call back as he was going to his own hanging was sadly funny.

Savine sitting on the Closed Council and causing issues for Leo was wonderful to see, loved that. And the fact that Savine got taxes passed day 1 when Jezal tried when he first took power and failed (Bayez was like Nope!) shows that Glotka's plan worked at least for the time being. And how about Glotka! And Ardee up to her head in the plans as well! I kept thinking that Glotka as the Weaver made the most sense, he was too smart to just let Bayez lord over them all. Did I mention I hate Leo?

Bayez in Rikke's last vision and in the Northern Library, still up to no good I am certain. He is a weaver in Rikke's vision which is what Glotka used, has to be some correlation there. So he is building the banks again with the blonde (is that Hildi?) and raising Calder's son to be the physical force but will the "I am returned" voice be the thing that ultimately defeats him? Is that the ONLY way he can be defeated?

Was it a satisfying ending? Absolutely not but I was prepared for it this time. With Rikke's vision do I think/hope there will be more> I sure hope so lol (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Abercrombie is planning another round of standalones, and a 3rd/final trilogy, in the future, after he writes some other stuff...

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Abercrombie is planning another round of standalones, and a 3rd/final trilogy, in the future, after he writes some other stuff..."

That is awesome. There was a bit of a break after the first round of standalones and this trilogy so that makes sense.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

He also likes to write trilogies completely before publishing, thus the numbering and seeding of details that payoff later... leads to publishing gaps while writing, then consistent releases once they start coming out...

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "He also likes to write trilogies completely before publishing, thus the numbering and seeding of details that payoff later... leads to publishing gaps while writing, then consistent releases once t..."

That is interesting. So the new book scheduled for next year trilogy has already been written? So he can get to this? I am a fan <3

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I'm not entirely sure how The Devils is being written... it sounds like he's still writing the first one... unless he's talking about a whole trilogy...

I just know how Age of Madness was written... and I think the first trilogy...

Michael J. Sullivan is the same way... or he used to be...

I think there's still editing and stuff to do, when the first one comes out, but there's been at least a few drafts done of the whole trilogy pre-release...

Abercrombie's last update was back in August, and Devils was coming along, finally, after some growing pains...

[Nirkatze]

About 3 hours in, I think? Chapter "Citizen"--(view spoiler)[LOL Well, I can see where the title of the book came from. Sometimes these things are obvious, sometimes they are inscrutable, sometimes they hit you like a brick at some point in the story. This be a mad crowd, y'all.

And I love the book poking some fun at America, quoting the Declaration of Independence...

Though honestly, this whole thing is reminding me more of the French Revolution with the bloody rise of the proletariat at home, not to mention the technology level, rather than the American revolution...

It's super surreal having Orso sitting there watching everything... (hide spoiler)]

Thinking on that prophecy of Rikke's you pulled out, Ann-Marie--so does that make (view spoiler)[Pike the Owl, then? (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "About 3 hours in, I think? Chapter "Citizen"--"

(view spoiler)[I agree it is similar to the French Revolution. And Orso grew on me so much in this book <3 (hide spoiler)]

Regarding prophesy (view spoiler)[the owl is revealed and man it was ROUGH lol (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Through part 7..."

Just finished the first part, Part 7--love your little summaries, Ann-Marie, they really help ground my understanding of what has come so far, especially since I'm really crappy at catching names while listening. (view spoiler)[You're so right about how brutally exquisite and horribly fascinating Abercrombie's portrayal of all facets of this conflict are.

Yoru Sulfur getting essentially tossed out of that council... I wonder if that might have been part of the impetus to toss the council off the tower?

Savine giving birth... reminded me of the horrific birth scene in the first episode of House of the Dragon. Not enough stories really get into the pain and terror and visceral physicality of childbirth, focusing on the "happy" afterwards.

"Closet case"--you think Savine knows? I was thinking Savine was oblivious... have to keep an eye out for more clues...

And now things are making me think more of the Bolshevik revolution... or the Chinese one--20 years after their revolution, they had another one, since the new government didn't deliver on promises or food... Abercrombie's version took a lot less time than that... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "About 3 hours in, I think? Chapter "Citizen"--"

[spoilers removed]

Regarding prophesy [spoilers removed]"

Ooooooh! Looking FORWARD to that! Except, (view spoiler)[that suggests that Orso is really gonna get eaten... and I do love his growth, even through just part 1--he's always wanted to do the right thing, just been too hobbled and clueless about how to go about it... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Part 8 Conspiracies quote--(view spoiler)["There was only one conspiracy here--to find someone to blame." Oooh, such a good line, and so true... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Part 8 Lessons (view spoiler)[Oh shit, Rikke's new allay is Bayaz.

I love how in the audio--the narrator is so good, that as soon as Bayaz speaks--before he is described, and you could guess, and before he is named, and you know... you know it is Bayaz, because the voice is Bayaz...

And then a bigger oh shit when she rejects him... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "This book was great... a real highpoint in the series, for the most part..."

I am loving it so far. Through Better Than Carnage, little less than halfway Part 8/2 Bayez has e..."

Ah, I was having fun guessing who your new 1st hated is... (view spoiler)[Was wondering if Judge had that honor. ^^

Is Judge the woman who was at the front of the crowd in the beginning, who never gave in to the neighborhood "protection racquet"? Kinda lost where she came from in the turmoil... One crazy lady, for sure... I've been wondering too, if Broad might end up pulling a Clover... (hide spoiler)]

Part 8 Taking and Keeping quote (view spoiler)["Folk would indulge a man's mistake while holding a woman's against her." More truths. (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "This book was great... a real highpoint in the series, for the most part..."

I am loving it so far. Through Better Than Carnage, little less than halfway Pa..."

Regarding Judge (view spoiler)[she was the one in Valback who led the Burners when there was the rebellion that Savine got trapped in and Orso negotiated a peaceful end but then Pike hung a few hundred of the moderate Breakers. She is just awful but not my most hated lol (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "Part 8 Lessons Oh shit, Rikke's new allay is Bayaz.

I love how in the audio--the narrator is so good, that as soon as Bayaz speaks--before he is described, and you could guess, and before he is na..."

Regarding you know who (view spoiler)[I am still not sure if he got too cocky so stuff did not go his way or if he intended things to end up how they did. I am leaning towards not intended but I guess we'll need to wait for the new books whenever that may be to find out for sure. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Finished! I LOVED all of the great end-twists... I saw them coming just early enough to feel smart about it, which is always fun. I also LOVED reading all of your commentary, Ann-Marie!! Your new #1 hated totally makes sense now... (view spoiler)[One thing I don't get--my impression of Leo from the first two books was that he is totally NOT smart enough to pull off anything like this without Savine's help... though the end-scene with them in the small council was priceless, and helped restore my faith in the balance of the universe.

I was really hoping Orso would manage to survive. He earned my favorite character spot for this trilogy--so yeah, Leo earns the hate. In fact--as soon as Leo had that reaction to Savine's heritage (ah, my son will be king!) I thought that put a countdown timer on his life. I'd like to see that be activated, please.

When Judge suggested to Leo bringing in Savine to interrogate for the location of Glokta, that got me thinking... yeah, where IS Glokta? And then... Pike wouldn't really put this all together without Glokta knowing. It has to be Glokta behind everything. But I didn't imagine he did this all to try to cut off Bayaz. It makes total sense in retrospect... and amazing--he's been working on this for what, twenty, thirty years at this point? It must have been ever since Bayaz put him in charge.

Assuming "you know who" is Bayaz in the comment above, I'm also leaning towards unintended, especially with that epilogue scene with Clover. And did I mention how I loved Yoru Sulfur sauntering in, all "ah, there you are, I gotcha now" and Glokta being all "ah, but you see... I expected this too." That was an epic ending for a character. Are we sure he doesn't have the Long Eye? I mean, I know he doesn't. But damn! Glokta is my all series favorite.

And Rikke being the Owl! The first scene with her and Orso after he escaped... I knew. It was such a mirror to the scene when she killed Black Calder. She knew what had to happen... and she didn't like it, but she would do what needed to be done. "You've got to be realistic, after all."

I know we're both holding our breath and crossing our fingers for Logen to show up in anything coming up.... (hide spoiler)]

And thank you, Iain, for sharing that news about the plans for later books. Knowing that this is the middle trilogy... it kind of feels like (view spoiler)[The Empire Strikes Back--but our main characters are the "Empire" (or Republic) and Bayaz is Luke Skywalker... the third series is going to be The Return of Magi... (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "Finished! I LOVED all of the great end-twists... I saw them coming just early enough to feel smart about it, which is always fun. I also LOVED reading all of your commentary, Ann-Marie!! Your new #..."

(view spoiler)[Do you think the blonde is Hildi? As much as I hate Bayez and look forward to his demise I do kind of hope it is her and that she gets to absolutely destroy Leo before coming to her senses and deserting Bayez lol (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

If I remembered (view spoiler)[Hildi being Orso's maid, who he tried to protect, right? That would fit... I'm totally on board with your guesses. (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "If I remembered [spoilers removed]"

Yup and (view spoiler)[she was very good with numbers..... (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

From what I remember: (view spoiler)[doesn't the girl at the end use a phrase Hildi uses earlier in the story, to make it clear they're one and the same? (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "From what I remember: [spoilers removed]"

Maybe (view spoiler)[I just had Hildi's goodbye to Orso where she said she is good with numbers in my brain and then the girl at the end with the math stuff. I think by the time we got to Clover & Bayez I was like OMG MUST FINISH so I will pay attention on a re-read. I did join the first law subreddit because this is top 5 series/worlds for me <3 (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

re: Hildi--(view spoiler)[I just combed through my eyebook--and Bayaz does name the blonde girl as Hildi. He asks "What do you think sounds better--Hildi dan Valant or Hildi dan Bulk?"

Then there's Rikke's vision at the very end:
She saw a bald weaver, and the work on his loom was all in ruins, a million threads hanging severed. But he was stitching it back together, patience, patience, and smiling as he worked. He put out his hands, and one fell on the head of a black-haired boy, and the other on the head of a blonde-haired girl.

She saw the girl become a laughing woman, flashing lenses on her eyes, a tall hat perched on her golden curls, and the hat belched smoke, spat ash, blotted out the bleeding sun and cast the world into twilight. She blew a kiss, and the kiss became a coin, a thousand coins, a million golden chains. She offered her hand, and the fingers became iron rails, and the rails reached across the sea and made a cage, the cage that Stour had forged, and the whole North was inside.

She saw the black-haired boy became a black-haired man, and he sat on a hill of bones in a circle of fire with a grey sword across his knees, a grey sword never sheathed, a grey sword marked with one silver letter. His scarred mouth spoke, but his words were drops of blood that made a stream, that became a river, that became a sea that broke upon the beaches of the North. A tide of blood. A flood whose red waters would not recede.

She saw the Crinna boil. She saw Uffrith burn again. She saw the graves open and spew up the dead. She saw Skarling’s Chair split in two and the broken wood bleeding. She saw a plague of worms writhe in the poisoned fields. She saw a plague of crows shower from the bare trees and blot out the moon, sink the world in darkness.

And in the darkness she saw a bald weaver, and in his eye she saw a burning stone, and in the burning stone she saw a circle of runes, and in the circle of runes she saw a black door, and beyond the door a figure rose from the seething sea, a figure made of blinding light, and his feet left smouldering footsteps in the shingle, and he spoke in thunder.

“I am returned.”

That seems... fairly clear for a vision. I think we've got our final trilogy there...

And it seems to also answer the question of if Bayaz planned things this way, or if he was caught unawares... (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "re: Hildi--I just combed through my eyebook--and Bayaz does name the blonde girl as Hildi. He asks "What do you think sounds better--Hildi dan Valant or Hildi dan Bulk?"

Then there's Rikke's visio..."

I remember his asking which name she preferred and blacked out the first name part in my rush to finish! I started setting up my book journal for next year and I am doing a new series and a re-read series page and I think I am adding this for sure lol

[Nirkatze]

I hear you--I remember the preference question too, but didn't connect the dots. A journal sounds like a good idea, lol.

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "I hear you--I remember the preference question too, but didn't connect the dots. A journal sounds like a good idea, lol."

Nirkatze wrote: "I hear you--I remember the preference question too, but didn't connect the dots. A journal sounds like a good idea, lol."

I tried keeping a journal before but lost interest but this year I have been keeping up for the most part and if I really loved a book I totally nerd out and look up fanart and add that to the entry. To add to my nerdiness I also keep a spreadsheet to track my books, ratings, format, along with any challenges & fantasy bingo.

[Nirkatze]

Heh, that sounds like how I use the challenge spreadsheet... and then there's my BR tracker which has everything in it... you are not alone in your nerdiness...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

That's kind of half the point most people continue to participate in the group reading competition... the fancy spreadsheet with all the dataz...

[Nirkatze]

Timelord Iain wrote: "That's kind of half the point most people continue to participate in the group reading competition... the fancy spreadsheet with all the dataz..."

*bows down to Iain the Spreadsheet Master*

Everything looks so nice and organized in the shiny spreadsheetz, with the shiny dataz...

[Chris]

So Nashville TN is 14 + hours round trip from my house.....I had a work conference there this weekend, so listened to roughly that much. Yes, I listen at 1.0 speed almost always...even when readers are slow, the distortion at speeding them up is too much....

And Pacey is perfect in 1.0 speed, so no need to mess that up....

So I still have a couple of hours, but blazed through a good bit. I know, I'm still the slowest reader in FBR, even being forced to listen for two entire days lol

[Ann-Marie]

Chris wrote: "So Nashville TN is 14 + hours round trip from my house.....I had a work conference there this weekend, so listened to roughly that much. Yes, I listen at 1.0 speed almost always...even when readers..."

I think I sped it up to 1.25 speed which was perfect to my ears but I would not try too much faster because I agree, Pacey is perfect for these books.

[Nirkatze]

He's still good at 3x speed... ^^ Once I got used to faster speeds, the slower ones start sounding distorted... like listening through water...

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "He's still good at 3x speed... ^^ Once I got used to faster speeds, the slower ones start sounding distorted... like listening through water..."

I got up to 1.5 speed on a book recently and was like look at me go! It depends on the narrator for me for sure.

[Nirkatze]

Oh so true! And not just the narrator, but how accustomed to the story and their voice I am--like, I'm up to 3.5x on the In Death books just because we're up to the 40s on that, and I'm so familiar with it... and after 9 books with Pacey's dulcet tones reading the carnage of Abercrombie to me, I went from I think 1.7x to 3x over the whole course of the series...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I read Edward W. Robertson at 3.25-3.5x speed, just to be done with it already :D

I'll make it to the end of the Cycle of Galand/Scour series, so help me...

[Chris]

Finished....

Regarding Judge: (view spoiler)[I can't help but feel that we've seen her before. During one of her stories for how she became known as Judge, she states that she was captured by Ghosts and told her family was killed, then rescued by her family. I got to thinking she might actually be Ro South....

Looking on the Wiki, Ro should be roughly 25 or so during the Age of Madness. While her hair color isn't mentioned on the Wiki, Shy is said to have reddish brown hair. While Judge has bright red....Ro did shave her head for awhile after her rescue but went back to letting it grow.....

It was because of this suspicion I ended up giving myself hope that Logen would turn up and call her down from her crazy....the fact that didn't happen makes me wonder if this theory has anything to it... (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Chris wrote: "Finished....

Regarding Judge:"

(view spoiler)[I can absolutely see that but I am glad that that was not confirmed on page because Judge was just awful, one of the worst characters in a world of awful characters. There was this post on the first law subreddit:

Lamb remarks once to Shy that the only things he’s proud of in his life are her, Pitt and Ro. He and Shy make an epic journey of almost Tolkien proportions, struggle with their entire beings, to eventually accomplish this Herculean quest. But they were too late. Consider the trauma of Gregor Cantless, the brain washing of the Dragon People, and the harsh truths Cosca’s brutality taught Ro that day. Only then to stare up at the only father she’s ever known, her gentle protector, her big Lamb…and to be greeted by The Bloody Nine.

That’s going to traumatize any 10 year old.

For Logen and South to have tried so hard, both overcoming their monstrous natures in the process, only to make a new monster themselves. For Ro to eventually join the rebels of Starikland and the burners after that. That would be a tragic and compelling character arc. For her to become the Union’s very own Maximilien Robespierre, would be bloody diabolical.

Down right Grimdark.

If there are 3 more standalones and another trilogy then perhaps Shy & the kids will make an appearance that will either prove or disprove this. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

I was wondering the same thing, regarding Judge--(view spoiler)[The one thing that made me think that she probably wasn't one of those kids was that she mentioned earning the name "Judge" from her time with them--and the Red Country kids weren't with the Ghosts long enough for them to "judge" anything... but she could have been one of the others... (hide spoiler)]

So there's nothing in Sharp Ends that follows up with those folks, then? That makes sense though... I've been meaning to finally go back and listen to that shorts collection... probably in December... I have a sad little list of BRs for December, and I'm going to need twice as many reads... not sure what to do with myself...

Dittoing hope for some follow up for sure! Maybe with a new short story collection? Or those upcoming standalones, like you mentioned, Ann-Marie...