SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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The Spear Cuts Through Water
Group Reads Discussions 2023
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"The Spear Cuts Through Water" First Impressions *No Spoilers*
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I'm tempted by the praise in the review section of this book, but I'm quite sure I wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace. It's a long book! For me at least.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "I'm tempted by the praise in the review section of this book, but I'm quite sure I wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace. It's a long book! For me at least."I thought so as well but once I started i couldn't put it down and read like 1/3 of it in one go.
It had me at "the twiggy pieces of tobacco sticking to your tongue like bugs' legs" and I knew this was going to be my favourite book of the year.
This one is a little disorienting, stories within stories within stories and switching back and forth between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person narration.
Jessica wrote: "This one is a little disorienting, stories within stories within stories and switching back and forth between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person narration."I won't be able to start it for a day or two, but I love this kind of disorientation in my books :)
I am LOVING the way this book is disorienting.
I, too, am intimidated by its length. So I decided to read the first 50 pages and see if though I could plow my way through. YES! I decided I'd aim to read 50 pages a day, so it wouldn't feel like so much. But after my second fifty pages today, I am so horrified at the brutality, I was glad to put it down. (I'm about page 100.) I also, love the voices speaking in the story, giving words to the ordinary people who the larger story affects. That feels like a very awkward to try to say this. Its the little people, the servant, the soldier, the peasant, whose voices we hear, commenting on how the bigger events affect them. I really like this and can't think I've ever read anything set up quite like this.
I've just finished the prologue, "Before". Do we use the other thread for discussion, even section by section?
Some of the reviews painted a very elaborate narrative structure; following the shifts in narrative levels is actually very straightforward, even though there are several.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "I've just finished the prologue, "Before". Do we use the other thread for discussion, even section by section?
Some of the reviews painted a very elaborate narrative structure; following the shif..."
I was wondering this too (this is my first time getting into a Book Club discussion from the beginning!)
I came across the phrase "a book that teaches you how to read it" and I think this really applies here. There's some very clever work at the beginning of the book that helps you distinguish between the present framing story (second person), the story itself (omniscient), and the intrusions of the minor or dead characters (first person italics). When it later breaks for the Empress's first person POV you are prepared for it. While it's very structurally innovative and unusual, I didn't find it structurally difficult at all.
Idem.I've been following SFFBC for a few years but I don't think I've ever joined a Book of the Month before.
And the multiple framing device is part of the reason why.
This is a book about storytelling, among other things. I was drawn to Marlon James' Black Star trilogy for similar reasons, but I decided to wait for completion before embarking on a saga with multiple unreliable narrators...
Another reason is that The Spear Cuts Through Water is not a trilogy!
Rachel, you haven't mentioned my favourite level of framing. (view spoiler) But I think that's better kept for the spoiler thread.
Agreed! It had me at the second person but the thing you have in spoilers is where I knew it was going in my top books of the year list.
Loved “Vanished Birds” by the same author so I’m looking forward to diving into this one. I somehow have it rated already but haven’t actually read it yet… oops?
Started it and not super far but it shows all the hallmarks of his first book- complexly woven narrative, strong prose. Not a book you can skim.
125 pages in. This is fantastic. As others said, I love the interjections from minor characters. Just another level of narrative depth that I don’t think I’ve ever seen before. I love it.
Everyone rated it 5 stars that rated it. I guess it is worth it? 525 page hardback book. Got from library today.
I'm about 50 pages in and I'm really loving it. There's something about the way its structured and plotted that feels fresh, but without feeling confusing or dense. I don't want to jinx it this early on, but this feels like it could be a new favorite.
Molly wrote: "I'm about 50 pages in and I'm really loving it. There's something about the way its structured and plotted that feels fresh, but without feeling confusing or dense. I don't want to jinx it this ear..."Me too. At page 94, I'm not on firm ground about points of view and the theater, but I'm loving every minute of it.
I’m listening to this one on audiobook and I’m wondering if it’s Smiling Sun or Smiling Son - getting a bit confused as too whom people are referring when they say this since the narrator doesn’t change tones between characters.
It's Smiling Sun, in unison with the astronomical themes of the novel.
(even though a pun on Smiling Son wouldn't be out of place...)
This book might be slightly better to read in the hardback book. I like the overall look and feel of the book and there are some clues from the formatting and fonts.
Bobby wrote: "This book might be slightly better to read in the hardback book. I like the overall look and feel of the book and there are some clues from the formatting and fonts."I absolutely agree - they keep the novel from feeling dense, even though there is so much going on in such a big world.
Yes - I’m getting that from the audiobook that some is being lost in translation.
Actually I'm happy reading the ebook; it's a long novel and the hardback looks huge. But I agree that the print helps: there are at least three different typeset (standard, indented & italics) and they all have a role, together with spacing, in giving a rhythm to the long sections of the novel (the Days).
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "Actually I'm happy reading the ebook; it's a long novel and the hardback looks huge. But I agree that the print helps: there are at least three different typeset (standard, indented & italics) and ..."Yeah, I can't imagine how it would work in audiobook. But I found the ebook format allowed for the typography to clarify anything that wasn't immediately obvious.
I like the typography and divisions, as well. I can't begin to imagine how confusing it would be to sort out if the narrator doesn't change voices. I have finally made it past halfway! My hardback copy has 518 pages, which is way past my general maximum! Still being horrified by the casual brutality.
Finished 100 pages. The hard cover is all my library had available and I'm glad. I would have trouble following who or what was going on with the audiobook. Love Jimenez's story telling.
Thanks for the heads up about the audio book. I bought both this time because the price was right. I think I’ll probably start with print and listen to it when I’m driving or walking, so that it goes more quickly.
[off topic]Some of the most fun I've had was reading American Gods in paperback, ebook and audiobook at once.
I’ve never been part of a book club, nevermind a book club discussion, so bare with me if I go a little spoilery in this😅.This book is a lot longer than I’m used to but was very excited to step out of my comfort zone and into this new (to me) style of writing. I was absolutely intimidated at first and took me a few days to get myself past the first 60ish pages. But boy oh boy, I’ve just finished the Before section and cannot put this book down!
The switches of perspective reads much easier than first anticipated. It reads very similarly to watching a play with the intrusions of the dead and sectioning off scenes focusing on different points of views. I feel like the intrusions remind you of the setting of the overall story. I think that the way the book is set up almost makes it easier to read.
It’s almost like watching a movie while my mom gives little tid bits about the actors😅
I'm at page 22 and it's a struggle so far.I kind of understand what the author wants to achieve by this peculiar way of storytelling, but it just doesn't work for me so far. I cannot just relax and immerse in the story, I need to be on my toes all the time just to make sense of the story and it's a bit tiring.
I saw tons of positive reviews and so far intend to finish the book (maybe I just need to learn to appreciate some things here). Hope it gets easier to read down the road.
Olga wrote: "I'm at page 22 and it's a struggle so far.I kind of understand what the author wants to achieve by this peculiar way of storytelling, but it just doesn't work for me so far. I cannot just relax an..."
It may get better for you. I got used to it over time. I'm about 400 pages in and it seems natural now. But it was a little awkward at first I thought.
Rachel wrote: "There's some very clever work at the beginning of the book that helps you distinguish between the present framing story (second person), the story itself (omniscient), and the intrusions of the minor or dead characters (first person italics)."Thanks for setting this out! I am glad to have this confirmed / explained etc.
56 pages in - already creepy; now some things are starting to happen.
On page 200 now.Seems like I'm getting into the rhythm of the story and finally able to enjoy it. Plus the juicy action has finally arrived. And characters are opening up, which is always good.
I still need to filter out the modern world and your Lola parts, because I just cannot place them. Hope it will make more sense later.
And it seems that audio+text works best for me in this case. Helps to create a more immersive experience.
I decided to go with the audiobook/ebook combo, which is cool, and the first time I’m doing it, because I bought the Kindle and Audible at the same time. At first I had the phone propped so I could see the text but listened to it. When I thought that there was some important narrative shift I watched the text scroll by and so now I’ve trained myself to hear what the narrator is doing with the structural elements. He’s actually quite clear, but you might miss it if you didn’t know about it in advance. So thanks for the heads up!
A month late, but about 1/3 of the way through the “Before” section and I’m deeply impressed by Jimenez’s sentence-to-sentence writing, as I was in The Vanished Birds. It’s astonishing to me that such a relatively young author as he is writes with so much confidence!
I finished “Before” and I am absolutely loving this novel. It’s incredible.
Finally got a copy of this from the library along with having the time to read it. I am about 60 pages in and loving the way the story is told so far, especially the “asides” in italics from the minor / background characters. I’m really interested to see where the story goes.
I finished the Before section a few days ago. With lots of distraction in my life right now, this book has been a serious challenge to continue reading. I am reading the paper book, and find the style very difficult to follow. I hope the First Day engages me more or I may give it up.
Liane wrote: "I finished the Before section a few days ago. With lots of distraction in my life right now, this book has been a serious challenge to continue reading. I am reading the paper book, and find the st..."I can see where it would be a challenge to read this one if you have a lot of distraction, Liane. I find I can't read it when I'm too tired, or I keep having to re-read. That said, I'm about 25 pages into the First Day, and this part does seem more straightforward than the beginning. I hope that it engages you more (but I am also a big supporter of stopping if a book isn't a good fit or it isn't the right time for it - there are too many other good books out there).
Please save all discussion of particulars, details from the story, character choices, plot questions, etc. for the full spoiler thread. There is also a buddy read thread.
Content warnings for those who want them: (view spoiler)[ ableism (explored), war crimes, mention of sexual violence, substance use, harm to eyes, cannibalism, body horror, torture, child abuse, loss of loved one (hide spoiler)] (More about CWs here.)