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2023 Foreign Language Reading
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Iamthesword
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May 23, 2023 06:11PM
Third book in French this year: LA PLUS SECRÈTE MÉMOIRE DES HOMMES by Mohamed Mbougar Sarr. A wild ride over 570 pages that I really liked. Not an easy read, but masterfully constructed
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Ivy-Mabel wrote: "Hi Peter: On the subject of Latin (which I also learnt for seven years), did you ever see the chap on German TV who taught it? I enjoyed the lessons (although he moved fast) but what surprised me m..."I've just started reading "Long Live Latin" by the Italian Nicola Gardini, translated into English by Todd Portnowitz. Jovial reading so far, including what appears to be the translation of "divas" as "divers"! But then I don't know any Italian . . .
Number 4 and 5 in French: Two plays by Jean Cocteau. An ok version of the classic play ANTIGONE and a fun absurd comedy called LES MARIÉS DE LA TOUR EIFFEL which was more fun to read. Overall, the highlights of Jean Cocteau's work might lie elsewhere (in his film version of LA BELLE ET LA BÊTE for example).
Just finished my Foreign Language Reading Challenge 2023! (12 books not in English or German) Yay!This last one was the first book of an Italian historical adventure series set in 1347. Challenging due to the historical vocab and faux medieval phrasing in some the dialogue, but I think I got about 90%, which is fine.
Only have one Petros Markaris mystery in French (translated from Greek) that I want to get to this year and that'll be pretty much it for me...unless I just HAVE TO read book 2 of the Italian adventure! (which might happen) 😎
Congrats on getting to your goal!Since I last posted I finished my second Dutch novel Haantjes by Kluun was not a great book but a quick read and got to just get into the language a bit.
Congratulations, Berengaria. The Italian historical vocabulary must have been challenging. I tried some time ago to read parts of Dante's Inferno, mainly in order to get a feeling for the rythm of the "terza rima". That was very, very difficult.Few weeks ago I finished reading "Empuzjon" by Olga Torkarczuk in Polish. It took me a while to get going, but once I caught her way of story telling I was not too difficult to follow. Currently I am reading or better hearing "The Promise" by Damon Galgut, which will be my first book in English this year.
Great job Berengaria! Ahead of schedule and a huge success.
Thanks guys!Lea - no shame in quick reads! Many of my Swedish ones this year were rather short. Too bad it wasn't all so enjoyable, though.
Peter - Dante! Brave man. I've heard The Promise is really good, so I hope you enjoy listening to it. 😀
Rod - thanks, mate! I'm a zippy bunny this year. 🐇
I am in Croatia for a few days for a wedding, and have found that much of the Croatian I have been cramming is deserting me in speaking to people!
J.C. wrote: "I am in Croatia for a few days for a wedding, and have found that much of the Croatian I have been cramming is deserting me in speaking to people!"Why do you think that is? Do you get the feeling they expect you to be fluent or are they subtly aggressive about foreigners?
Just finished my first book in Japanese: ふしぎな図書館 (The Strange Library by Haruki Murakami)!I'm still at a beginner level so going through this book was a challenge but I'm glad I didn't postpone it and got into native material early. Now I feel more confident and motivated.
That’s so good. Keep up the good work :)
~G~ wrote: "Just finished my first book in Japanese: ふしぎな図書館 (The Strange Library by Haruki Murakami)!I'm still at a beginner level so going through this book was a challenge but I'm glad I didn't postpone it..."
That's really impressive
~G~ wrote: "Just finished my first book in Japanese:"Wow! That's super. And with a book meant for adults, too. You have every reason in the world to pat yourself on the back! 👏
Berengaria, thanks for your comment. I think I just imagined I could swallow language and regurgitate it! I didn't start learning it early enough (the time factor). The Croatian people we have met seem delighted that I am trying - I think most British tourists don't bother. When people have spoken to me they do speak slowly and then say it in English. They learn English in school. It may be an age thing with me, that I have to work a bit harder!
Thank you everyone!Berengaria wrote: "~G~ wrote: "Just finished my first book in Japanese:"
Wow! That's super. And with a book meant for adults, too."
I actually picked this book believing it was a children's story. My copy even has some cute drawings. But the plot turned out a little darker than what one might expect from a children's book.
For my next read I'm planning to read 魔女の宅急便 (Kiki's Delivery Service) , an actual children's book this time!
Hi all, I'm a new member. I've already started my own challenge that happens to match this challenge here! I'm from USA and currently residing in the Netherlands. I've already read a few books in Dutch and have noticed remarkable improvement in my Dutch literacy, which makes me even more motivated to keep on going!
MeKenzie wrote: "Hi all, I'm a new member. I've already started my own challenge that happens to match this challenge here! "Hi MeKenzie! It's true, isn't it? Reading really does improve your understanding of a language (grammar/new vocab) by leaps and bounds. And it's fun, too!
What type of books are you reading and how have you set up your challenge?
A few of us here read Dutch, so you're in good company! 😃
Hi Berengaria, thank you! Yes, I've used Duolingo alone before and it wasn't enough. I'm currently reading the Wipneus en Pim series (gaan op reis atm). I finished Wipneus en Pim en De Oude Paraplu. It was a cute story! I also finished De Blauwe Maan, a book that is now out of print, but luckily my Dutch friend still had it. Surprisingly, I finished it in three days (takes a lot of effort, but I did it!). I thought it was beautiful. Anyway, I still have to read another Wipneus en Pim book after this one.
My original challenge was just to finish Wipneus en Pim en De Oude Paraplu, because that was hard enough and I didn't believe in myself. At first I could only read one page a day and thought I would never finish it, but somehow I did! So you could say I've bypassed my original goal and can read a little more comfortably. For now, I'll just read as much as I can and evaluate how my performance has improved by the end of the year and improve my reading level if necessary.
If you have any suggestions, I'm open to them!
MeKenzie wrote: "I'm currently reading the Wipneus en Pim series (gaan op reis atm). I finished Wipneus en Pim en De Oude Parap..."The book I really enjoyed was a collection of very short stories meant for adult learners called Het stoplicht: Verhalen in eenvoudig Nederlands It's about at an A2 level, so might be slightly over your head at the moment, but well worth the money.
It's been out for a while, so there might be other short books for learners on the market now. I don't know the titles, though!
You've got the exact right attitude, that's super! One step at a time and don't rush. Perfect!👍
As you probably know, people generally overestimate how much they can get done in a week and underestimate how much they can get done in a year. That's why I find setting year goals in languages always turns out to be the best policy. You can often surprise yourself! 😄
I am currently reading Umberto Eco's The Island of the Day Before. The action is situated in the 17th century. in chapter 21 a clergyman states that the German language must be the true language of Adam and Eve, because it resonates all the sounds of nature: the rumbling of thunder, the sizzling of a lightning, the bluster of winds, the roaring of a lion, the mooing of an ox, the barking of a dog, the growling of a bear, the bleating of a sheep and the squeaking of a pig.While I do not see this as a great compliment of my mother tongue, the statement gives rise to a question, which I would like to extend to you: Are there languages that have a pleasant or unpleasant sound? Is this perception a question of individum or does it prevail in larger groups?
Peter wrote: "I am currently reading Umberto Eco's The Island of the Day Before. The action is situated in the 17th century. in chapter 21 a clergyman states that the German language must be the tru..."I'd like to think about that one, Peter! (Might take me a while . . .)
Peter wrote: "Are there languages that have a pleasant or unpleasant sound? Is this perception a question of individum or does it prevail in larger groups?"Americans *heavily* stereotype languages. When I was in school, they would put kids into different languages based on those stereotypes. Here are the most common...
* French is very sexy and feminine, so it's a language for girls and beautiful women (men who speak it are clearly gay in some fashion).
*Italian is romantic and whimsical, therefore suitable for chefs and other expressive, emotional artistic people because it sounds like linguistic lasagna.
*Latin is for nerds who think too much and obsess over chess. They wear thick glasses and are socially awkward. They will always get better marks/grades than you do, even if they are terminally uncool and hide in closets.
*Spanish is spoken by dumb or poor people (or both) who live in dusty, hot climates (Mexico, yuck) and it sounds like an old, swayback donkey braying while lumbering clumsily down a hill.
*German is guttural, brutal and reminds you of the rat-tat-tat of a machine gun. Therefore it is a language only to be spoken...sorry BARKED...by men in the military.
Because I'm female and was not in the lowest classes, I was automatically slotted for French. It took me a good 20 minutes arguing with my advisor before he reluctantly switched me to German.
He said things like this: "German is hard. And it's guttural, so not very pretty. What's wrong with French? French is much prettier." (Get it? You're a girl, so learn French and leave German for the boys.)
This may have changed, idk. The view of Spanish certainly, although probably people still see it as an 'easy' language.
For most people who do not know or learn languages, I think it does have a lot to do with how your country/language views the speakers of that language and what history you have with them. Personal taste comes second.
I really like the sound of some languages others don't, like Danish. Most people I've spoken to (English speakers, of course) think it sounds like the speaker has a mental disability, Down's syndrome or something, and can't speak correctly.
I'm a big fan of German. It was my first foreign language and it is still my favorite. But the most beautiful language I've personally ever heard is Xhosa, which is a tribal language spoken mostly in South Africa. It's related to Zulu and has the clicking sounds. Really super. 😍
Thanks for all the info Berengaria! Such good insights. My schooling seems to be far more primitive than yours. We did Japanese for a few weeks, then a choice of French or Bahasa Indonesia. The pitch I remember was, “Indonesian is easier than French” hence the majority went with Indo, me included. At the end of year 11, the second pitch was “If you do Indonesian, you will be competing with native Indonesian speakers so your ranking will probably go down” so only a handful stayed, not me included.In Australia, hardly anyone speaks a second language unless they have foreign heritage or a partner of who speaks the language…
As for my preferences, I think French sounds the sexiest, but I am gay, so Berengaria’s teacher was right there!
In Scandinavian, I think the nicest sounding is Norwegian then Swedish then Danish (eeww). Idk about Icelandic, and Finnish is a completely sep language so not comparable.
I’m probably ignorant, but Chinese languages seem a bit shout-ey to my ears, so they aren’t my fav but I haven’t really given them a go.
Sportyrod wrote: " then Danish (eeww)"😂 What's this eewwwwww? Does Danish sound like someone with a mental defect to you, as well? (You can say, we're all friends here...)
Chinese sounds shouty to me, too. I can tell Chinese from Japanese when I hear it, but I'm not so good at picking out Korean. It must not be very shouty as it's become quite popular to learn in the last few years.
As for school...we were offered Spanish, French, German and 2 years of Latin at my high school, which was A LOT for the 80s in the US. No Italian, though.
WHY to they let native speakers take their own language in school??!!! That's so...grrrrrrrr!😠
You know, I did a degree in German at university, and the other 2 people also doing a degree both had parents from Austria. They were doing German only because it was an super easy degree for them and they weren't shy about telling people that. They often emailed their essays home for their mothers (native speakers) to correct. I couldn't do that, as I come from a highly monoglot family.
The department got revenge in the end, though. For the degree, I was awarded an entire grade higher. I got a B, and they both got Cs. Angry as hornets, they were!
You know, I have the same impression of the US as you do of Australia. Almost nobody speaks a foreign language beyond a few fragments unless it's their heritage language. But I've met a few people online who claim that "everybody here in America speaks several languages! What are you talking about?"
When I ask them what they mean - the America I know is very monolingual - I find out that that person and virtually everybody they know is either 1st or 2nd generation or lives in an urban community that still speaks the heritage language. That would explain it then!😄
I love Danes, but compared to the northern Scandinavians, Danish sounds quite gutteral. Norwegian sounds melodic and Swedish is in between. If we extend this to dialects, The UK and USA sound more polished in English, and the Aussie version is far more nasal. And the New Zealand dialect is nasal + the vowels are rearranged, where fish and chips becomes fosh and chops. In Oz, people from Melbourne are alone in pronouncing “el” as “al” eg Melbourne becomes Malbourne. I use the “al” lingo when in Melbourne for fun and to disguise my tourist status ;)
Oh and yes, full cheating to do your own language as a subject. Though not actual cheating as far as I was aware. I guess the teachers knew the rules to warn us away from language in the final two grades. Or perhaps they preferred smaller classes ;)
I really like the sound of Danish. I like that it sounds "weird", and I think Swedish sounds a little plain in comparison. I do like Norwegian best but maybe because I speak it best. I like languages that sound odd/fun. I don't really enjoy listening to Arabic much. I just spent summer holidays in Sweden and I read some Swedish comics there, and also read parts of Liv Strömquist's "Prins Charles känsla". I found it interesting that even though the topics were not as easy, the feminism, gender and socialogical terms et al, it being a graphic novel really made it less intimidating. I don't know why I never pick up graphic novels in languages I speak a little, it's really fun!
I am glad that my post sparked off so many comments. In my view the attitude, both emotional and rational, to a language depends a lot the knowledge of it.I agree there used to be a lot of prejudices towards languages here (Germany) as well, mainly derived from prejudices towards the nation, who speaks it. French, the language of l'amour, Italian, lingua del canto e della opera, mysteriously deep and/or brutal Russian, intellectual (UK) or perfunctory (US) English, Spanish as the language of "mañana".
Personally I have always liked French for its liaisons and nasal sounds. Though being my first foreign language, I did not particularly like English for a long time, but started to appreciate it for its creativity and short, but matching words. Working for international companies I better started to like it anyway. Since school I wanted to learn Russian for its beautiful cursive writing and wealth of soft sounds (я, е, и, ё, ю - yah, yeh, yee, yo, you). I like Italian for the amount of vowels. Subsequently I disliked the sound of Polish and Czech, who are rich in consonants. Only when I started to learn Polish and was able to read the first Polish poems, I started to see and hear the beauty of this language. My story with Dutch is similar. First I disliked it mainly for the guttural sound of "g", but once I travelled more often to the Netherlands I started to appreciate the proximity to German in terms of words and grammar and for their cute words like brommer (lorry), bromfiets (motorcycle), knuffelen (to cuddle).
In our school students are free to pick their foreign languages regardless of previous knowledge. As there are two foreign languages compulsory for most of the students at least one will be new to them. English by far is the most popular, then follow French and (growing) Spanish. Latin ist losing ground and Russian gaining again with all the refugees from Ukraine (most prefer to speak Ukrainian nowadays, but they are still fluent in Russian as well). All other languages (Italian, ancient Greek or Dutch, Danish, Polish and Czech in border regions) play a very minor role.
Lea wrote: "I really like the sound of Danish. I like that it sounds "weird", and I think Swedish sounds a little plain in comparison. ..."My Danish friend admits that even amongst Scandinavians the Danish language sounds a bit weird, almost like keeping a hot potato in your mouth while speaking. Swedish - my wife can speak it - it special because of its unique melody. Finnish in turn sounds also pleasant to me with all the long vowels and repeated consonants.
I think there are many factors in play. Unfamiliarity with language and culture has a huge effect. For me it would be impossible to interpret intonations in Chinese, for example. Then, as people have said, there is the attitude of one's country or community to the language. German sounds rough and guttural when Nazi officers use it in films, but in poetry and song - sublime! And when my German friend speaks it, it sounds gentle. Every time I see a hymn title in church given in German, I immediately want to read and speak it aloud in the original. "Seit stille, und erkennt, dass ich Gott bin." !! ( I couldn't get the symbol for double 's'). Or what about the Erlkönig?
"Wer reitet so spät durch Nacht und Wind?" It makes me shiver every time I hear or read it.
I tried to learn Russian for the literature, but also because I found that the sounds answered something deep in me - I loved the sounds, for example of хлеб, for bread, and мир, the world.
I began to teach myself French when I was quite young, loving the beauty of the sounds slipping from my tongue - but take a coarse speaker and the sounds become altered with the voice, tone, vocabulary, sentiments expressed, the whole lot.
No one has mentioned the Celtic languages yet. Welsh feels natural to me even though I am not a native speaker, because I was born and brought up in Wales with my maternal family. I love the singing quality of it. Then, in University, I took to the Dorrick (in Aberdeen), which was not only near my father's home but was, I discovered later, where the paternal side had lived in the seventeen hundreds and probably before. So I think instinct and genetic structure work too! I have lived among Scottish Gaelic speakers for over forty years, but have never felt the same kinship for Gaelic, the sounds of which, again, vary with each community and speaker.
I haven't mentioned English yet - it's such a hybrid! But I used to love hearing Received Pronunciation!
Berengaria wrote: "Peter wrote: "Are there languages that have a pleasant or unpleasant sound? Is this perception a question of individum or does it prevail in larger groups?"Americans *heavily* stereotype language..."
I've heard Xhosa once, Berengaria - but failed completely to be able to even hear the complexity of it. I loved your summing-up of languages! I'm still reading "Long Live Latin" - I just love it! So I'm the nerd who lives in the closet!
J.C. wrote: "no one has mentioned the Celtic languages yet"Welsh I like the sound of, too.
When I speak it, though, I can always hear my American accent behind the words and that rather ruins it for me. (I don't have this problem with other langs)
Maybe it's because I feel that to speak good Welsh, I have to "put on an accent" first. That is, I have to fake a British-style accent with rotund vowels, half swallowed words and drawn out ends and THEN replace the English words with Welsh ones.
That's too much to juggle. But when I don't, I sound terrible to me!
Berengaria wrote: "J.C. wrote: "no one has mentioned the Celtic languages yet"Welsh I like the sound of, too.
When I speak it, though, I can always hear my American accent behind the words and that rather ruins i..."
That sounds really complicated, Berengaria! Maybe Welsh from South Wales is easier (that's where I'm from, of course!). Just go along with the song!
Actually, when I think of it, South Walian speakers of English tend to reduce things to one syllable anyway! My brother Ian lived there for a while as an adult and they reduced his name to "I" ("Ee"!).
Hi everybody! This has nothing to do with languages, but I just got my hands on a load of new books and am seeing if anybody would like to buddy read along.Here's my list:
1. Bournville by Jonathan Coe
2. Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus
3. Local Gone Missing by Fiona Barton
4. Circe by Madeline Miller
5. Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia
6. Malibu Rising by Taylor Jenkins Reid
7. Harlem Shuffle by Colson Whitehead
8. 1984 by George Orwell
Hi Berengaria,Thanks for the the buddy read options. I’ve read Circe (loved it). I’m tempted by Mexican Gothic. I will keep an eye out for it at a second hand bookstore but don’t wait for me. I’m about to finish my geography challenge in 5 books so I should have more freedom soon.
Sportyrod wrote: "Hi Berengaria,Thanks for the the buddy read options. I’ve read Circe (loved it). I’m tempted by Mexican Gothic. I will keep an eye out for it at a second hand bookstore but don’t wait for me. I’m..."
I know someone else who would like to buddy read Mexican Gothic, but it will take her probs till Christmas to place a book order. If you can get your hands on a copy when she's ready to go, (Maybe January) then that will make a 3-person group buddy read!
Sounds good. Hopefully enough time to source a copy.
Language Learners and Polyglots
Books mentioned in this topic
Malibu Rising (other topics)Local Gone Missing (other topics)
Lessons in Chemistry (other topics)
Circe (other topics)
Mexican Gothic (other topics)
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