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The Friendly Ebook Discussion Thread for the Intellectual Reader!
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Wild for Wilde
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Oct 14, 2009 07:16PM
Because people decided to start attacking people on a personal level in the last one, I created this in order to get more insight on everyone's thoughts on ebooks. For example, what is your favorite reader and why? What do you think about textbooks becoming electronic? Etc. PLEASE be polite and know that if you state something as fact that isn't you may be corrected. Happy reading everyone!
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i love ebooks, my favorite reader is the sony 300. i like that it is light and portable and people come up to me all the time when i am using it. it's a great conversation starter! i would be so happy if they put textbooks on them because those heavy textbooks kill my body (i am a pre med student and have to take at least 5 huge text books to class everyday).
Yeah the Sony is pretty awesome, I also agree with you about the textbook part. Most parents would say "Well just get a rolling bag!" but nobody did that unless they wanted to be made fun of endlessly so that wasn't an option for me when I was in school haha
Welcome to TC Bianca, thanks for jumping in.
I don't know where the thread went from yesterday, but I wanted to clear some things up about the environmental issue surrounding ebooks and ebook readers.Yesterday, Misha was saying that ebook readers are very detrimental to the environment due to the waste they add to the landfills once people are done with them. Please let me know if you have any input or questions ! :)
Hi Misha,
Obviously this is a very complex issue, I would love to see an environmental scientist really drill down on the subject and get some more definite answers. In the end, I believe the environmental issue really boils down to paper/trees, methane, water.
To be honest, I'm not sure I disagree with you but the articles you pointed out, while interesting, still only address a small subset of the issue of the ebook and ebook readers footprint. What you are referring to is strictly the impact of the dedicated ebook READERS on the environment, which is only a small portion of the ebook market as a whole.
I agree, plastic waste is an issue, but in the grand scheme it seems significantly smaller than the other issues addressed by switching to ereading.
Ebooks are not limited to ebook reading devices. Over 80% of ebooks sold are read on devices other than ebook readers. 85% of our customers on BooksOnBoard do not have a dedicated reader. For many people, the price of an ebook reader would feel like making a payment on a Lexus. They read on devices they already own: laptops, desktops, netbooks and smartphones (such as the iphone). Reading this way, on technology you own or have access to, does not add to the waste and in fact decreases it. We actually encourage people to read on something other than a dedicated device.
The subject of the ebook reading devices as you are discussing it, is more an issue of e-waste. It is not very different from your phone, laptop, etc. -- all are constantly revised and traded in for the newest model. The main difference here is that, ebook readers are still in the early stages of development (ebooks are still only 2% of the book market) so there is more room for development and thus a more rapid issuing of models. But for now they still have a long way to go. Personally, I am waiting for the right reader to come out with multi-functionality, but in the meantime I do my fair share of reading on my phone and laptop with some good old fashioned paper library book thrown in every once and a while. Then again, a new study by the NY Times says that the effects of an ereading device is "offset after a year of use." So even devices might not be that bad.
From the information I have found,EBOOKS themselves are actually quite environmentally sound. They are digital files placed on already existing systems. Paper on the other hand, is a constant drain on our resources and environment. I could go on, but instead I'll just bullet out some quick points.
Tree consumption
- True, IN THE US where we have tree plantations, trees can be replanted. But often, paper for books is outsourced internationally to India,
China, tropicial climates,etc. where this is not the case. Deforestation is still a large issue on the world scale.
.-When trees are disposed of methane is released into the air and increases the hole in the ozone layer.
- Trees as well as other plant release oxygen into the atmosphere and absorb CO2 keeping levels of Carbon down.
-In the USA in one year, 2 billion books are produced. To get the paper for these books requires consuming 32 million trees
-Books are not the only paper consumer, other "pesky things printed on paper" such as newspapers like USA Today and the NY Times take up alot as well. One Sunday issue of the New York Times consumes 75,000 trees. The newspaper industry in the USA, each year, consumes 95 million trees. Luckily, most of those sites now have most of their articles available online.
Recycling
- Typically, if properly disposed of, electronic parts can be salvaged and reused in one way or another (this was even touched on lightly in your Green Peace article). In the print book business when a book is returned, it is common practice to rip off the covers and throw the rest of the book away. Though there are second hand bookstores and libraries etc, that make good use of some older books.
-What about recycled paper? The scarcest resource in the western United States, Iraq, Iran, and on a general global level is water. Funny thing is, when we try to conserve resources by recyling paper, we use mainly water.
For a detailed article on the positive effects of E-publishing: http://epublishersweekly.blogspot.com...
Wow! That's a heck of a first post, Kana. Welcome to TC.(Also, if a serious argument broke out about ebooks, let us just pronounce ourselves now the nerdiest group ever:)
Welcome to TC Kana - well stated.
My one question is what about the resources that are used to power the devices, are they unlimited? Batteries and the electricity to recharge them never seems to be addressed.
My one point is that the water used in recycling can be reused itself after filtering I believe, so this may not be as bad as it appears at first glance.
Thanks.
My one question is what about the resources that are used to power the devices, are they unlimited? Batteries and the electricity to recharge them never seems to be addressed.
My one point is that the water used in recycling can be reused itself after filtering I believe, so this may not be as bad as it appears at first glance.
Thanks.
In addition to the worry about e-waste (hey, look at what we still continue to do with old laptops), I'm concerned about the underpinning of consumerism. In the beginning, paperbacks were printed to be thrown away, that's why they were so cheap. And yet the public caught on and starting keeping those cheap paperback editions. Books don't last forever, but they can take quite a beating. When you buy a paperback, you expect it to last for 10+ years, or 20+ if you're that forward-thinking.But an e-reader (of course, I'm talking about the "dedicated device" here) is MEANT to, at some point in the near future, whether it's one or two years, to be thrown away. It's purpose is to be out-modeled, forcing you to consume yet again and buy something else. I'm a little concerned about this rampant consumerism. While it's inevitable that as technology progresses, things become outdated, the industry pushes these things-- they WANT you to buy a new phone or a new ipod after a year, even if the hard-drive hasn't changed that much. (But look at everything else: oooohhh new colors!)
There's benefits and there's negatives, but I think I'm most worried about that consumerism creeping in so heavily to the art of books.
Hey guys, thank you for such a warm welcome to the group!Unfortunately Anthony, if I'm in the group likelyhood is that we will take a turn towards nerdy---hopefully that's ok!
Thank YOU Misha for your insight yesterday! I just thought it was a really interesting topic and wanted to weigh in with a little wider spectrum point of view. I generally find environmentalism very interesting and enjoy hearing what people have to say about it one way or the other. As I said, I do work for an ebook company but I realy like to hear what other people have to say on the subject, because I feel companies all too often tend to "drink their own bath water" when it comes to viewpoints on their product---plus I genuinely find the issue around ebooks fascinating! To re-stare what I said earleir-- I would LOVE to see what a group of government-funded scientists have to say on the matter but I don't see that happening anytime soon!
Hmmm that's a good question Jim..... I don't know the stats on how much energy is used for recharging,but I don know you can recharge most of them by plugging them into a computer or wall-socket. I'll have to dig deeper on that one!
The recycled water is also an interesting take. I just wish companies would start really cracking down on getting the most out of resources we already have through processes such as recycling, rather than going out and taking more resources...ah being environmentally conscious is such hard work....I think the government should begin focusing more time using scientific technology bringing Captain Planet to life...then he could fix it all! :)
http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.co...This is an interesting look at how the brain functions, and takes into consideration online reading not on a "dedicated device" (I love that phrase).
Mod
(Ken Follett and James Patterson)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/bus...
LG rediscovered this thread only slightly less than a year after the last post. High-fives to her for awesome thread rediscovery.
Mod
Don't apologize...I think it's cool.
The ereader experience in Australia is a different experience. It is very frustrating. A lot of titles are unavailable to us. It is so much easier for us to go for the Kindle.
Here are some of the frustrations expressed in a rather humorous way.
http://reactionstoreading.com/2010/10...
Here are some of the frustrations expressed in a rather humorous way.
http://reactionstoreading.com/2010/10...
Gail - that is a funny article and makes some good points. I imagine that is very frustrating.
I like regular old books, a real newspaper, and I go to the library on shanks mare. A goodreads dinosaur.
Mod
Librarians say HarperCollins' decision to allow just 26 downloads will add financial burden
As of Monday, HarperCollins, publisher of authors such as Anne Rice, Sarah Palin and Michael Crichton, will not allow its e-books to be checked out from a library more than 26 times.
After that, the license on the e-book will expire and libraries will have to decide whether to buy a new one.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/lo...
I love gadgets. I really want an ereader... but if I buy a book, I want to see that book on my bookshelf. I’d wind up buying my favourite books twice. So I’m holding out. It would be so convenient when travelling though. Sigh.
Mod
I read so much that i'd have no room to shelve that many books in print form. Yeah, I suck, but the draw of instant downloads is nice too, especially with most of it being free. I had to library most of it before getting the reader because of the amount I read.
A.k.a I'm a cheapskate, and I'm being lazy right now by sitting on my couch and posting from my nook color as we speak, but I'm being glared at for sitting on my device since we're supposed to be heading out for dinner.
It has just come to my attention that ebooks have been arount for 40 years. Are readers slow to grasp new technologies by the horns?
http://www.ebookweek.com/history.html
http://www.ebookweek.com/history.html
Stacia - Registered Cake Offender wrote: "A.k.a I'm a cheapskate, and I'm being lazy right now by sitting on my couch and posting from my nook color as we speak, but I'm being glared at for sitting on my device since we're supposed to be h..."Do you find it easy to type on the color Nook with the virtual keyboard?
I'm not a fast typer to begin with, so take this for what it's worth, but I don't really have many problems with it.
I'm not yet at the point where I want to type on a book.
Phil wrote: "I'm not yet at the point where I want to type on a book."It will happen :-)
Michael wrote: "Stacia - Registered Cake Offender wrote: "A.k.a I'm a cheapskate, and I'm being lazy right now by sitting on my couch and posting from my nook color as we speak, but I'm being glared at for sitting..."I have very tiny hands, so I have no problem. I could see where it might be a problem for guys though. I wouldn't try to make any post longer than a paragraph though, and so I still do most of my GR stuff from the computer. It's just nice to pull up the browser every so often while laying on the couch.
Hee. Your tiny hands remind me of a friend with a tiny hand, immortalized in another friend's song, "Je Suis le Main D'enfant."
I find typing on my Nook's virtual keyboard to be much easier than typing on my phone's virtual keyboard. I can only read one ebook before I have to go to a paper book because I get a real bad jones. I love the feel of a book! However, I love my nook for knitting books and pdf patterns! I was forever rifling through papers and books to find a particular pattern.
Wild for Wilde wrote: "Because people decided to start attacking people on a personal level in the last one, I created this in order to get more insight on everyone's thoughts on ebooks. For example, what is your favorit..."I sure would like to read the last one where people decided to start attacking people on a personal level. Nothing amuses me more than something as seemingly mild as an ereader discussion turning ugly.
Heh. I don't know, I've seen some threads get REALLY ugly. In fact, I took about a year off from GR when all hell broke loose in Mini Am and Axis. It was ugly. I love that this group doesn't get like that, if it did, I'd not likely be around here anymore. Good natured teasing and a witty jibe here and there are fun, but it was brutal and mean. Cross that line and I'm just not interested anymore.
On topic. I could never give up my actual books, my classics. I love the feel and the smell of a good leather bound copy of Jane Eyre or David Copperfield.
However, I think I'm going to go for the Color Nook for my Sci-fi and Fantasy addiction, maybe the odd best seller list book I feel compelled to get to see what all the fuss is about, like Life of Pi. I don't need that crap cluttering up my shelves.
On topic. I could never give up my actual books, my classics. I love the feel and the smell of a good leather bound copy of Jane Eyre or David Copperfield.
However, I think I'm going to go for the Color Nook for my Sci-fi and Fantasy addiction, maybe the odd best seller list book I feel compelled to get to see what all the fuss is about, like Life of Pi. I don't need that crap cluttering up my shelves.
That's where I'm going with it too, Amelia.
Want to know its not going to suddenly go on the fritz in the middle of a chapter and now I can't find out what HAPPPENED until I can get to the repair shop....Ok I didn't even think about that. If that ever happens I'm going to turn this discussion in a very unfriendly direction.
Barb wrote: "I'm right there with ya Bun. The physical book is nearly perfect as it is ... e-Readers are going to have to be pretty close before I move to them."So does this mean that you really aren't a techno-whore?
Even whores have standards. They don't say "yes" to everyone, it has to be WORTH what they're getting in return!
Mod
My sister has had her Kindle for 2 years now and it's never just stopped while she was reading. Also, the screen on it is muted, so it looks like the page of a book and doesn't cause eye strain. You even have to use a book light with a Kindle.
There really is nothing like a picky whore!
Jim wrote: "There really is nothing like a picky whore!"Especially when she's picking scabs.
The issue of compatability is a concern for me. Assuming I got an e-reader, I would want to be able to get downloads from everywhere. Our local library platform does not download to Kindle.So, should I want to buy a Kindle, I would be unable to access e-books from my local libary.
And many people--I am one--cannot afford to buy a new device every two or three yers. A paper book usually lasts me for several years--I take care of my books.
I don't want to buy any e-reader and then have the technology become obsolute and have to shell out for a new one.
As the technology improves, I might consider one---but not for the next three years, at least.
Mary JL wrote: "The issue of compatability is a concern for me. Assuming I got an e-reader, I would want to be able to get downloads from everywhere. Our local library platform does not download to Kindle."The ability to get ebooks from the library was a big factor for me as well which is why I was leaning toward the Nook, but if publishers cap usage and require underfunded libraries to purchase additional licenses then I wonder if they'll continue offering ebooks? As far as the device becoming obsolete, I agree, but I think that's a risk we take with anything electronic today. And I figure if I buy a Kindle and use it for three years before replacing it then it cost me $1 a week which isn't too bad. My biggest problem with any ereader is that a lot of the titles I buy aren't available on any ebook format so what's the point in getting some ebooks and some regular books?
Mod
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What's the problem in having books in two formats? Not duplicate books, but one book in e-format and another in hard copy? Would you rather transition entirely to e?
If I'm going to get an ereader then I'd like to transition all the way to ebooks. I guess it's a cost thing. If they were giving the ereaders away for free and then charging for the ebooks it wouldn't bother me, but it bothers me to have to pay a sizable chunk of money for the reader and then not be able to use it all the time.
It has to be a transition thing. I bought a DVD player and DVDs when I still had a VCR and VHS tapes. I didn't wait until I could afford to buy ALL of my VHS tapes on DVD in one go!
I bought a DVD player when I couldn't rent tapes anymore, but I got a combo machine so I could still tape stuff on TV. It's a good point though that it should be a transition thing. I'm guilty of being a black/white thinker a lot of the time and maybe it doesn't have to matter if I go back and forth between books and ebooks.
On my flight to Chicago I was sitting next to someone with a Kindle and someone with an iPad. They discussed them at great length...spent more time discussing than reading. I get annoyed that I can't spy on what people are reading.On the trip back, security I was in line behind a couple with three small children, one on crutches, 3 tablets and a netbook. Yowza.
Then on the plane everyone had proper books: even big hardback doorstops. Someone had Franzen and a stack of New Yorkers. Is it odd that I feel relief when I see this?
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