Group Reads Discussions 2023: "Stories of Your Life and Others" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

This thread is for whole book discussions. You can absolutely talk individual stories, but you can also talk about connections, themes, and overall thoughts. This will allow us to talk less specifically about stories and ensure app users can join in somewhere.

Questions to get us started:

1. Can we put together any themes in what Chiang is thinking about with this collection?

2. He uses different perspectives, narrators and literary techniques. What do these do for the different stories?

3. What was your favorite story? What was your least favorite? Why?

4. Did you find yourself drawn into any of the thought experiments or did this collection help you think of new connections, ideas, or comparisons to other works?

Thread with spoiler tags here: Story by Story

[Bobby]

(I'm going to leave out the understood caveats that these are just my opinions so I can write more simply)

1. Can we put together any themes in what Chiang is thinking about with this collection?

The stories all take some idea and extend it out in a creative way. The author did not stick with ideas that were realistic. They could be absurd and unscientific.

2. He uses different perspectives, narrators and literary techniques. What do these do for the different stories?

The choices the author made were dictated by the unique characteristics of each story.

3. What was your favorite story? What was your least favorite? Why?

Understand and Story of Your Life were good science fiction stories. Tower of Babylon was just a fun story. Seventy-Two Letters was disgusting although I liked the golems. Actively disliked Hell is the Absence of God and the others were just kind of slow. I guess it was a tie for worst between Seventy-Two letters and Hell is the Absence of God.

4. Did you find yourself drawn into any of the thought experiments or did this collection help you think of new connections, ideas, or comparisons to other works?

Understand reminded me of Where No Man Has Gone Before in Star Trek original series. Most science fiction relates back to Star Trek. :)

I was bummed that Story of Your Life was so short and not as detailed as Arrival. Arrival explains why the aliens came to earth but Story of Your Life leaves that out.

[Kirsten]

My favorite story was the one where the guy was testing a drug.

[Cheryl]

I read it a year ago so don't remember details. Here's my review, which does speak to the collection as a whole:

Brilliant. Very much in the classic vein of "What If." Like those old shorts, a bit weak on characterizations... to me, it seemed like Chiang had sciencey ideas that he wanted to turn into stories and the characters were sketched and then shoe-horned in; they didn't feel real. But still. These are the kinds of stories I look for.

Interestingly, the story notes are unsatisfactory. Does he really believe that he wasn't influenced by any version of Flowers for Algernon when he wrote "Understand?" I guess I can believe he didn't know about Uglies when he wrote "Liking What You See: A Documentary" because of the date of each (in fact, it's possible Westerfield was infl. by Chiang)... but they'd make good companion pieces.

All of these stories are great fodder for discussion. Clubs that do BotM discussions should definitely consider reading this, whether or not they're an SF group.

[Kaia]

I have to say that overall this collection was not my favorite, though there were a few good stories. I was a little disappointed because Chiang's Exhalation is one of my all time favorite short story collections, so I went in with high expectations. Here are my thoughts on the discussion questions:

1. Can we put together any themes in what Chiang is thinking about with this collection?

To me, it feels like each story is tackling a unique problem or idea, so I didn't sense an overall theme.

2. He uses different perspectives, narrators and literary techniques. What do these do for the different stories?

I did like this aspect, and I think Chiang does this very well. Some of the characters I found very realistic (though, at times, unlikeable) and suited for their tales. I love how "Tower of Babylon" feels fitting for the time in which it's set, and so does the final story that takes place mostly on a college campus.

3. What was your favorite story? What was your least favorite? Why?

My favorite story was "Tower of Babylon" because it was a really different way of exploring a well-known story. I was also invested in the main character and felt like I was really seeing through his eyes. I also really liked "Story of Your Life." The back and forth in time was done particularly well, and I found the translation part fascinating.

My least favorite story was "Understand." I liked it at first, and the idea was interesting, but then it went on and on, and I found myself skimming to get to the end. The character also became insufferable, which makes sense with the story, but also irritated me. :-) I found "Hell is the Absence of God" to be very bleak, though after reading the author's notes at the end, I understood what he was trying to do. Still, I think I would have been happier not having read it.

4. Did you find yourself drawn into any of the thought experiments or did this collection help you think of new connections, ideas, or comparisons to other works?

I felt like most of the thought experiments were interesting in themselves, but some of the stories either went on too long or I wasn't interested in the characters or plot. I think Chiang more successfully marries an interesting thought experiment with an interesting story & characters in Exhalation.

I found myself wondering if "Seventy-Two Letters" had any influence R.F. Kuang's Babel, Or the Necessity of Violence: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators' Revolution. I could see some parallels in how words were used. I also wondered if "Story of Your Life" had any influence on Andy Weir's Project Hail Mary. I can't explain that one without spoilers for Project Hail Mary though.

[CBRetriever]

I had forgotten that I'd read this book. I remember liking Tower or Babel and Story of Your Life. I did not like The Evolution of Human Science

[Tesseract]

CBRetriever wrote: "I had forgotten that I'd read this book."

me too! I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that all these stories were familiar to me. since reading it for the first time, probably at the beginning of the pandemic, I've thought about "Story of Your Life" all the time without remembering where it was from. that one and "Tower of Babylon" were my favorite, although "Understand" was good too. the "ultimate gestalt," rational enlightenment, the pursuit of intellectual beauty etc. are noble goals I relate to—if only it was possible to comprehend the world fully with our limited minds. same with "Division by Zero," which I don't think anybody has mentioned yet; its story notes express exactly my feelings.

I skimmed through "Liking What You See: A Documentary" but I remember when I read it the first time, I thought lookism was a ridiculous concept. the knowledge of bias and the male/female gaze I've gained in the intervening years make me realize its pertinence. but still boring to read for me lol.

[J.W.]

So, I have an admission here. I don't read enough short fiction. Indeed, before I saw the movie "Arrival" in theaters, I didn't really read any short stories at all. That movie inspired me to pick up this collection from the library way back when and read this collection and it kinda rocked me. The few stories related to religion challenged some of my preconceived notions with how I was raised, and the other stories were fascinating as well. I ended up finding basically every Ted Chiang collection I could and it started to get me into short stories.

So anyway, fast forward to today and I subscribe to Uncanny, Fantasy & Science Fiction Magazine, and Analog. I don't keep up on them as well as I'd like but I do love short stories.

Okay, sorry for that lengthy excursus, I hope others enjoy reading stories of discovering love of new things like I do. I re-read the collection for this group read.

"Tower of Babylon"- this one is strange to me because Chiang in the story notes says that he was doing this as a vision of the story without religion or gods but the story very explicitly talks about religion and gods. Perhaps he meant the mechanisms involved--I don't know. Reading it the first time it rocked me because of the turns of religious phrasing, lack of concern for human life, and more. This go-round, it is still a striking story and I like how cleverly Chiang ties the world together.

"Understand" - I'm a big fan of this one. Describing it to someone who hasn't read it would certainly make it less exciting than it is--some guy takes a drug that makes him smart and smug. However, reading the story itself feels like a string of revelatory thoughts, and that makes it riveting entertainment. I liked the ambiguity of the ending, too--what happened afterwards? We don't know because our perspective is gone.

"Division by Zero" - What a strangely hypnotic story. As someone who was obsessed for a while by the philosophy of idealism (specifically through George Berkeley) and who spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to establish concrete existence without having a rational basis of which I could convince myself, this was weirdly relatable. I could pretty easily see someone losing it when they prove the foundation of something like this is not what they thought--and much worse if an actual contradiction. And the confusion of others as you point it out? Yeah. Loved this one, though it disturbed me.

"Story of Your Life" - the eponymous one and probably the most famous due to being the basis for the movie "Arrival." I have to say this is one instance in which I like the adapted version more than the original. The story itself is fine--good, even. I just liked the detail and perhaps better explanations in the movie more.

"Seventy-Two Letters" - this story sent me down a rabbit hole of researching golems and their use in Kabbalistic writings and for that alone this story is a winner. What a fascinating basis for a story!

"The Evolution of Human Science" - a crumb of a story that could be expanded quite a bit. I'd have loved to see it in a longer format. As it stands, it leaves me with that feeling of "well.... that's all?" I want more.

"Hell Is the Absence of God" - this one really struck me both times I read it. The first time it put me into a kind of micro crisis of faith trying to figure out how to deal with some of the questions it raised. Now, it still raises quite a few questions I'd like answers to but I come from a different perspective and it's less challenging. The ending has some 1984 vibes to it, for sure. I could go on about the religious themes in this one for quite a while, but the main thing is that I think people need to really deeply look at the implications of what they say about God, angels, and the like.

"Liking What You See: A Documentary" - super thought-provoking in my opinion. I liked how Chiang used the format to explore so many of the questions that would naturally arise out of the technology to make it so we didn't really focus on looks so much. I am curious about what others think of it.

[Raucous]

I had favorites in this collection ("Tower of Babylon" and "Story of Your Life"), but every single story was thoughtful and thought provoking. This is the best SF collection that I’ve read in years (or perhaps ever).

I was a bit disappointed that my choice came in last in the voting (again), but there is no shame in losing to a book like this one.

The author's name appears in today's NY Times crossword puzzle. I guess that he's part of popular culture now.

[Raucous]

The podcast "The Ezra Klein Show" featured an interview with the author on March 30th, 2021. It mostly discusses major themes in his work.

There's also a transcript of the interview: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/po...

[Bnz]

Kaia wrote: "To me, it feels like each story is tackling a unique problem or idea, so I didn't sense an overall theme."

To me, too, but, so what? Chiang is not a very prolific author, but every single one of his works is a gem - a very different gem.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

To me, Chiang’s short stories were all about literary musings on underground, and sometimes not so underground, existential issues that keep cropping up over and over in our literature. Our existential angst about being alive (why are we alive? How are we alive?) is often barely disguised by the reboots of the same themes writers continuously return to again and again. Imho.

All of the stories are incredibly amusing! Chiang had a lot of fun, I think, in writing these stories. As far as the most hilarious story for me, so far (I have two more stories to read to finish) it is ‘Seventy-two Letters’. It is VERY tongue-in-cheek to me! And I immediately thought of the golem research I did because of another novel about golems I read some years ago:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Raucous]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "... And I immediately thought of the golem research I did because of another novel about golems I read some years ago..."

I see what you mean about the golem research. Thanks for the pointer to that. Those bookshelves...

His broad focus on existential issues comes through in the interview too. I found the religion vs science perspectives particularly interesting given his beliefs.

[Cynda]

Brillant. Thought provoking. Chilling.

Here is my review posted to Goodreads:

Reading and rereading this book has been a journey. When I picked up this book, I said, "Ohhh he's a centaur!" Yes. A man/human struggling above art, technology, design. As I read the book, I realized that these stories are somehow connected. After reading and rereading parts, I realized that the stories are connected through threaded story elements of space, time, and esoteric information. My friends who I am reading and discussing Borges asked me if I have read Ted Chiang's writing. I am feeling my toes at the edge of a vortex of space, time, and esoteric information. Then this morning I realized that the story of The Tower of Babel is not only mythic history, it is present story. Maybe we humans are still building Towers of Babel. What is a human to do? That is what I will have work out next.


link to review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Tesseract]

Cynda wrote: "Then this morning I realized that the story of The Tower of Babel is not only mythic history, it is present story. Maybe we humans are still building Towers of Babel. What is a human to do?"

yes! I love the way you put this :)