In support of controlling access to books.

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

I would like to hear from Christians and others who have supported book banning efforts, who have voted for DeSantis and will again despite his record on this issue, etc.

No hate, no rants, no name-calling allowed by anyone here. Please help us to understand your point of view.

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

From this other thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

# Nohra, you have a concern. Is it valid? I don't know. I'd like for us to discuss it here(because it is off-topic in that thread).

You said "I would gladly vote, if I could, against drag queens reading their books during story hour for toddlers; I've been there, and that really should be a concern and something to be banned."

You've been to a drag queen story hour? What books was/were read? What made you feel uncomfortable?

I'll post this comment in the thread in which it belongs to get us started. Courteous discussion is necessary for us to learn how to get past this divisiveness.

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

If anyone is unfamiliar with this fun literacy movement, some videos are on the NYPL site: https://www.nypl.org/education/kids/s...

[QNPoohBear]

Here's what I've read in various media outlets and in some of those banned books the parents don't want their kids reading.

(view spoiler)[

1)Drag performance is just that- a performance. It's an art form like any other form of theater.

2)It's a form of self-expression not necessarily tied to gender identity or sexuality. However, some say it is rooted in LGBTQ+ culture

3) Drag performers tailor their performance to the audience like all performers.

4)Non-profit organizations set up some of these story time events.

5)The performers are given job interviews like anyone else. I had to jump through hoops and get a background check just to give museum tours.

6)They read books about inclusivity, inclusion, kindness, and caring. Sometimes they sing nursery songs like "Itsy Bitsy Spider" or even popular hits like "Let it Go" or have a tea party.

The goal of Drag Story Hour is to create a space that celebrates diversity in all its forms, Frankie Dascola, executive board member for Drag Story Hour, a national non-profit organization, said.

“The curriculum committee actually strives to have full representation, so we have books that represent queer African American individuals, different able-bodied individuals, as well as different races [and] genders,” Dascola said.

popular books include
They Call Me Mix/Me Llaman Maestre a bilingual book about what it means to be a transgender person of color.

Thelma the Unicorn,” a book about an ordinary pony who wishes to be a unicorn

Don't Touch My Hair! which celebrates Black beauty and as well as teaches the importance of asking for permission before touching someone’s hair

“Neither,” a book about a little creature that's not quite a bird and not quite a bunny.

Dascola said one of her favorite books in the curriculum is “A Family Is a Family Is a Family.”

“It actually talks about all the wide, diverse ways that families can exist, whether it's two men, two women, whether it's a grandmother, whether it's siblings, it might be adoption, it might be foster care,” Dascola said.

Other popular books include
The Hips on the Drag Queen Go Swish, Swish, Swish

7)Kids see a princess in a dress and have fun with it. It's adults who are putting their own deviant interpretation on the events which are supposed to be fun for all kids.

Lil Miss Hot Mess thinks (emphasis mine): "I think that drag, it is about LGBT culture and it is about playing with gender norms and other kinds of assumptions or expectations in culture but it is kind of fundamentally about play. It’s about dressing up, it’s about making yourself over and then in doing so imagining how the world could be a more sparkly and fabulous place. So I think that’s something that kids really are primed for and can kind of easily understand and can kind of quickly join in those playful celebrations.

"It’s fundamentally unAmerican to try to restrict our creative expression and I also just think it’s sad. I mean drag is all about play, imagination and spreading a sense of joy and love and belonging. Drag tends to be a pretty awesome artform. We’re all about building community and having a good laugh together so it’s always kind of sad to me that people want to try to shut down the party.

I think it’s important that kids see the world they live in reflected back to them. LGBT people are in every community whether we’re in drag or not, whether we’re at the library or not and kids deserve to learn about our contributions to our communities, our cultures. I think it’s fun. I think it helps kids learn to express themselves, to stand up for what they believe in and to make the world a little more fabulous."
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2...

8)Kids are a heck of a lot more aware of the way the world works and also a lot more loving and accepting. They value fairness and kindness for all.

9) It's optional so if you don't like it, don't go.

10) The pushback against the program is part of a larger movement against the LGBTQ community, experts say.

“This coincides with the growing use — re-use, really — of the rhetoric around this false notion that LGBTQ people harm society,” R.G. Cravens, senior research analyst at the Southern Policy Law Center, said about this belief, which can be traced back to early in the country’s history.

Cravens said the protests against Drag Story Hour are part of a broader assault on gender equity and bodily autonomy.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/...

Our agenda is simple: we believe that people of all ages should be free to express themselves however they want, free from the constraints of prescribed gender roles. In other words, there’s no such thing as “girl clothes” and “boy clothes,” or “girl toys” and “boy toys.” DSH teaches children that there are many ways to express themselves and their gender, and they are all OK. Of course, drag is an art form that is rooted in diverse LGBTQ+ communities, and we support equality, justice, and respect for all people—for us, that’s just a given. Given that LGBTQ+ people are present in every community, we believe that children deserve to be exposed to these aspects of our shared history and culture in age appropriate ways."
https://www.dshnyc.org/faqs

(hide spoiler)]

Other resources to learn more about Drag Story Hours:

https://www.dragstoryhour.org/
https://www.dshnyc.org/faqs
https://www.ala.org/advocacy/librarie...
https://www.communitylibrariespvd.org...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

Ok, so those are thoughtful words in support of the books and the performances. But this thread is to show non-judgemental respect to the people who have concerns, to give them a chance to speak. Please hide the bulk of your post behind spoiler tags so they can click through when they're ready, but also have space on the screen to share their own thoughts. (After all, the entire rest of the folder is for statements etc. against restrictions.)

Nohra hasn't been here yet. Other people with similar or other concerns haven't voiced them yet. It is axiomatic that communication has to be involve more diverse perspectives. And without communication, we cannot find consensus.

[CK]

I, for one, adore Drag Queen Story Hour. As others have stated, Drag Queens can be from many walks of life. I actually know straight Drag Queens that just like the pageantry.

There are windows and mirrors and doors. Kids NEED to see everyone. Everyone has an intersection and identifies as such in some way. Kids have so many barriers in life and books/who reads to them shouldn't be one.

Is this the right thread? I tried to make sure but am often lost on threads in general. LOL!

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

I'm really trying to give space here, in this one particular thread, to the people who disagree with you.

But, CK, you're new, so I will take this opportunity to say Welcome to the Children's Books group! And please consider adding your thoughts to other threads. For example, we have one that would be perfect if you have some favorite children's books about Pride; you can submit titles there. Also, I see that you are an author, so please feel free to promote your book in our folder for Authors. (If you need help or clarification, please contact Manybooks, as she is the mod most connected with most details of both author and thread management.)

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

:bump:

None of those people who want to control what others read are willing to say why? I really do want to be open-minded, but if they don't make the case, then I can't understand what their reasoning is.

[Beverly, former Miscellaneous Club host]

I am not in favor of controlling what others want to read. While I am not in favor of removing books from public libraries, some school libraries are purchasing books that are not appropriate for the ages/grades of children that go to them. They need to stick to age/grade appropriate books for their particular school.
I do not think that "drag queen" story times are appropriate for young children, so IF it were up to a vote in my city, I would certainly vote against it. Although, as of now, I do not know of any dq story times taking place in my city.
As for who to vote for: the pro-life issue is much more important to me than which books are being removed from schools or libraries. So yes, I would vote for DeSantis (if he runs for president) because he is pro-life, not because he approves of removing books from libraries.

[Manybooks, Fiction Club host]

Beverly wrote: "I am not in favor of controlling what others want to read. While I am not in favor of removing books from public libraries, some school libraries are purchasing books that are not appropriate for t..."

One thing to consider is that with these all encompassing anti drag queen laws, it might also end up being that many Shakespeare plays could end up being banned (as in particular many of the comedies have men dressing as women and vice versa). And in many operas, boy roles (like Hänsel in Engelbert Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel) and which are usually meant for sopranos are generally played and sung by girls, which could also easily now lead to these operas being banned or at least and problematically restricted. And I mean, why are drag queens worse than violence??

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

Thank you for your open statement, Beverly. I do understand a little bit better now.

[Beverly, former Miscellaneous Club host]

Manybooks wrote: "Beverly wrote: "I am not in favor of controlling what others want to read. While I am not in favor of removing books from public libraries, some school libraries are purchasing books that are not a..."

I'm afraid that I don't see the connection between drag queens interacting with children and actors (dressed as women) in Shakespearean plays intended for adults. And I do know and realize that in centuries past, men played all the roles in plays, including the women's characters, as women were not allowed to act in stage plays. I consider that a completely different thing. It is unlikely that the (long-ago) male actors went around dressed as women in their private lives.

[Manybooks, Fiction Club host]

Beverly wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Beverly wrote: "I am not in favor of controlling what others want to read. While I am not in favor of removing books from public libraries, some school libraries are purchasing bo..."

But if drag queen shows in general would be banned, there could be inadvertent consequences. I personally would only have issues with drag queen shows if they were really sexually explicit and/or prompted drug use but that actually seems to generally not at all be the case.

And you know, much much worse than any drag queen performances is the fact that the performers have been receiving death threats, that certain "people" (and I use that term very loosely) actually think they should have the right to threaten others with physical harm simply because they do not agree with something.

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

Thank you both for your well-expressed viewpoints. Please be careful not to get too argumentative in this particular topic thread, though, as this is the one that is meant to be a 'safe' place for people who are more shy about expressing their views.

There is, in this folder, a Discussion thread, where you might want to take this if you're starting to feel frustrated and unheard, and might inadvertently say something that will shut down the people we still need to hear from.

[Manybooks, Fiction Club host]

Cheryl wrote: "Thank you both for your well-expressed viewpoints. Please be careful not to get too argumentative in this particular topic thread, though, as this is the one that is meant to be a 'safe' place for ..."

I actually do think that there probably should be some rules regarding how drag queen performances geared towards children should be happening, as for me, the performances should not be over the top and not be sexually explicit in any way (and the costumes need to be not too overly exaggerated as well, but well, that is how I personally feel and regarding my own visual aesthetics).

There was a recent case in Burlington Ontario where a transgender high school shop teacher came to school, came to work wearing really ugly, horribly huge and exaggerated prosthetic breasts and basically looking like something straight from a circus side show (and I really do not fault parents and actually also many students for being rather offended, as the shop teacher's way of dressing was simply horrible, ugly and visually offensive and in fact would give likely most drag queens etc. a very bad name).

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

I think most of us can agree that just a bit of decorum wouldn't go amiss. Ok to be fun, enthusiastic, funny, sparkly - that's what kids like. But I agree that it is possible to take it all too far.

The question is, who decides how far is too far? Not a question I think we should discuss here, I mean... just something to think about, and to discuss in the other actual Discussion thread if we want.

[QNPoohBear]

While I do not agree with this opinion, I thought it belongs here.

A Katy (TX) ISD Dad

" I’m not anti-gay. I just want graphic sex out of school libraries.
I am not a book banner. I am not anti-LGBT. I just want age-appropriate books."

The letter contains references and quotes from objectionable passages in the books out of context.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opin...

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

Hm. Isn't that what so many banners say, though? Isn't that what we talk about in the discussion thread, for example that putting books written for teens in the adult section basically counts as banning?

I imagine you posted here because his argument seemed more coherent or thoughtful or something. I'm not clicking through, though, sorry.

[Manybooks, Fiction Club host]

Cheryl wrote: "Hm. Isn't that what so many banners say, though? Isn't that what we talk about in the discussion thread, for example that putting books written for teens in the adult section basically counts as ba..."

Yup, I agree, MOST of the book banners claim they are not in fact wanting books banned, but well, they are.

[QNPoohBear]

Cheryl wrote: "Hm. Isn't that what so many banners say, though? Isn't that what we talk about in the discussion thread, for example that putting books written for teens in the adult section basically counts as ba..."

I posted it since it was a well-reasoned letter to the editor. A little less hateful rhetoric than the speeches they give at school board meetings.

[Cheryl, Host of Miscellaneous and Newbery Clubs]

Thank you.