SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Why do we see the current flood of YA scifi and fantasy?
I actually don't know if "genre reader" is the right term for what I mean. I mean it in a 'I like A so I'm going to find more of A to read" way. Hope that makes sense. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a genre reader, and I don't want it to seem like I'm saying there is. Just... you know, to clarify that.
Johan wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote (about Starship Troopers): "It is not adult-orientated. It is YA. It was written for teens and caused quite a bit of controversy."According to Wikipedia we are both right :-)
"A ..."
Going to admit - I do not trust Wikipedia and their always changing information.
Based on the history of the novel, I will stay at YA as the author stated it was written for (and later marketed to) teens.
But if it makes you feel better, you can call it "adult" if you like.
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "Becky wrote: "There's no logic to my reading habits. LOL"So much temptation... "
Don't hold back, Colleen! LOL
Johan wrote: "The fist time I read it I was about fifteen and I loved the military adventure and the war against the bugs. The politics seemed sound to me at that time (at fifteen I also thought capital punishment was a valid thing for a civilized society. *Shudder*), and it was only when I read it again, many years later with more adult eyes that I could see why it has been accused (undeservedly if you ask me) of promoting militarism and fascism."To be honest, I think that some people could do with a very public flogging.
When I was younger, the idea would have horrified me. As an adult...the behaviors I see around me on a daily basis makes me want to flog both children AND their parents.
Charles wrote: "How about those Dragonlance novels huh? Those were pretty good YA fluff. :D They were definitely a transition point for me between CS Lewis and Robert Jordan. "I keep meaning to read those. It' on Mt. TBR.
Like Becky I never "transitioned" from one marketing segment to the other. I read "adult" books as a child (when I first read Isaac Asimov and books like Morning Glory and Toy Soldiers)
While I loved the Narnia series as a child, I fell in love with it many a time as an adult. In fact, I find more things in it as an adult than a child.
I didn't run across his Space Trilogy until adulthood. Marvelous work. I wish I could have read it during the time period when it was written. That must have been amazing.
MrsJoseph wrote: "To be honest, I think that some people could do with a very public flogging. "I couldn't agree with you more. Some people really need to get flogged. Not so sure I would include children in that group though :-)
MrsJoseph wrote: "But if it makes you feel better, you can call it "adult" if you like."That's very gracious of you :-)
Another rec, sorta: I just read a blog post about a YA novel named The Sin Eater’s Daughter. I've not read it but the blog said it was rather nice.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Another rec, sorta: I just read a blog post about a YA novel named The Sin Eater’s Daughter. I've not read it but the blog said it was rather nice."That actually sounds pretty interesting!
Haha, the author even reviewed her own book :-)
Maybe I should do that too :-)
The problem with the people needing to be flogged thing is that the people I would want to flog probably think I ought to be flogged... :-/
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "The problem with the people needing to be flogged thing is that the people I would want to flog probably think I ought to be flogged... :-/"Haha, yes that is always the risk :-)
Johan wrote: "Haha, the author even reviewed her own book :-)""[...]started to read it as though it was a real book."
So... it's NOT a 'real' book?
Becky wrote: "So... it's NOT a 'real' book?"Apparently not... :-)
MrsJoseph wrote: "Charles wrote: "How about those Dragonlance novels huh? Those were pretty good YA fluff. :D They were definitely a transition point for me between CS Lewis and Robert Jordan. "I keep meaning to r..."
I read everything in the school library, fantasy just happened to be my favorite at the time. There was a time when I always had a book in my hand.
So it was just as much an access issue as it was reading level.
I can go back and read Roald Dahl at any time, as long as it has been awhile since I last read it. I read through several of his just a couple of years ago.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Going to admit - I do not trust Wikipedia and their always changing information. Based on the history of the novel, I will stay at YA as the author stated it was written for (and later marketed to) teens.
But if it makes you feel better, you can call it "adult" if you like."
A lot of people don't trust wikipedia, but they're actually more accurate than people think with an accuracy rating of above 90%. I didn't believe that at first, but I saw it on wikipedia, so it almost has to be true because they have an accuracy rating of above 90%!
Also, this thread got civil so fast, and I applaud that. I think most of the turmoil came from the fact that genre and marketing strategies are so purposely vague so as to both hit their target audience while not making outsiders so uncomfortable that they won't consider throwing money at the products either. The fact that we can't even agree on whether or not a book is YA or not(I vote yes on SST) kind of illustrates that point.I think there was also an issue with how we define realism in terms of books as individuals(my definition varying hugely from the one Johan offered).
As for recs, I saw someone say A Monster Calls, which I second, and I add to the list the Chaos Walking trilogy by the same author. Book one is
by the same author. The writing style turns off certain readers before they even really get into the story, but I've yet to see anyone who has finished the series not fall in love with it.
I didn't care for The Knife of Never Letting Go. I don't think it was the style as much as a lot of plot holes and characterization and pacing issues. I didn't make it past the first book though. Maybe those things are explained/improved in the rest of the series. I didn't have the patience to find out. ;)
Becky wrote: "I didn't care for The Knife of Never Letting Go. I don't think it was the style as much as a lot of plot holes and characterization and pacing issues. I didn't make it past the first book though. M..."Well, now I meet someone haha. I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for it, so I'll start by saying I loved all 3 books, but KONLG was easily the worst book in the trilogy IMO.
But eh, different strokes for different folks. I'd still recommend checking it out for anyone who thinks it sounds interesting.
LOL.. There's always one. And it's often me. ;) Anyway, I have heard that quite a lot - that the 2nd and 3rd books are way better. But at the time, I was just extremely disinterested and disinclined to put in the time to read 3 books for a story I was pretty 'meh' about. Many people do love it though, so yeah, I'd say it's one of those books that one has to try for themselves.
A Monster Calls is phenomenal, though. So I'm in a weird situation with Patrick Ness in that I'm not sure if I like him or not as an author. It's pretty 50/50 - one book I loved, and another book I didn't.
Have you read anything else of his? I want to try More Than This, but I'm hesitant because I don't want to dislike it.
Becky wrote: "LOL.. There's always one. And it's often me. ;) "And if it's not her it'll probably be me.
I haven't, only Chaos Walking and A Monster Calls, and while I loved both they were SO different from each other that I don't know what to expect from his other books. I'm firmly on the "pro-Ness" side of the fence, though haha.
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "The problem with the people needing to be flogged thing is that the people I would want to flog probably think I ought to be flogged... :-/"lol
True.
But I would be right so it wouldn't matter what they think.
;)
Charles wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Charles wrote: "How about those Dragonlance novels huh? Those were pretty good YA fluff. :D They were definitely a transition point for me between CS Lewis and Robert Jordan. "I..."
Ahh.
I read my parents books (which means I read quite a bit of Playboy, too) and had 100% free range library access.
Plus the occasional Readers Digest. :)
Becky wrote: "...There's no logic to my reading habits. LOL"Amen to that!
MrsJoseph wrote: "Charles wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Charles wrote: "How about those Dragonlance novels huh? Those were pretty good YA fluff. :D They were definitely a transition point for me between CS Lewis and Rob..."The nearest public library was 45 minutes away for me growing up, and impossible when it was snowing. So what the School had was what I read.
Tommy wrote: "I didn't believe that at first, but I saw it on wikipedia, so it almost has to be true because they have an accuracy rating of above 90%!"Haha :-)
You are all wise in not trusting Wikipedia, but when it comes to quotes and references they are usually very accurate. Whether the references are trustworthy or not is another issue, but that is a universal problem in academia and is not limited to Wikipedia.
The real reason you can't trust Wikipedia is because the articles are often written by people with an agenda, and those people include references that support their claim, and omit references that don't. I was just lucky that today they supported my claim that SST was not marketed as a YA story :-)
This particular quote about Starship Troopers (click to read it on the page it was lifted from) was from the book "Robert A. Heinlein: In Dialogue with His Century: Volume 2"
According to that book (and we all know books are always truthful, because authors never have an agenda...) they published SST through the publisher's children's department but designed and promoted it for their adult catalogue.
If you define YA by the audience a publisher markets a book to, that would make SST an adult book, so either the definition of YA as a simple marketing thing is either incomplete, or the publishers were simply wrong about their book :-)
Just goes to show that you will never find two persons with the same definition of a genre. Not even here in this Goodreads group :-)
I'd say YA is in the eye of the beholder, and let's leave it at that, shall we? :-)
Johan wrote: "I'd say YA is in the eye of the beholder, and let's leave it at that, shall we? :-)"You can replace YA with nearly anything and I'd still agree with it haha. And, just to be extremely clear, while you and I may not agree on YA from a few different angles, I still feel for you on the market not putting out the stuff you're on the look for front. It's, sadly, understandable why they chase the dollar. So it has been, so it shall always be.
Tommy wrote: "You can replace YA with nearly anything and I'd still agree with it haha"Yes, that goes for everything people have opinions on :-)
Wow...I head away for forty-eight hours and the discussion has exploded, imploded, and then reformed...:)
Johan wrote: "Just goes to show that a good book can be many different things to different people, and even mean different things to the same person depending on the age when you read them. ..."That's certainly true.
And it's another reason to pay little attention to labels such as YA.
Just another example, this groups BotM is The Golem and the Jinni. As I understand it, the mods here vet books as being 'for adults' before they accept nominations for BotM. However, my library labels this story YA. And, of course, I'm sure I'm getting a different perspective on it now, than I would have if I'd read it when I was a teen.
Cheryl wrote: "Johan wrote: "Just goes to show that a good book can be many different things to different people, and even mean different things to the same person depending on the age when you read them. ..."..."
Does your library label all fantasy as YA? That's the only reason why I can imagine they would think it would merit that label. It wasn't marketed as YA and doesn't have teen protagonists.
Speaking of which, my library includes Christopher Moore's book Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal, in their children and teens section. I imagine the discussion going something like this:
"Why is this book shelved in the adult section?"
"Because that's where all the other Christopher Moore books are shelved...?"
"Hmm... No, it looks cartoonish and it's about Jesus and his childhood pal. Kids should read more about Jesus. We'll put it in the kids and teens section."
"....Have you read it?"
"No, but it's about Jesus. It must be good. And probably funny, since it's Christopher Moore and he writes those funny books, which kids will like. Stick it in the kids section."
"Ohhkay... You're the boss."
Yeah, I wouldn't peg Golem and Jinni as a YA.
I feel like YA at least any YA published since 2010 are all fads and generally females that might never read any books published before this century.
Kevin wrote: "I feel like YA at least any YA published since 2010 are all fads and generally females that might never read any books published before this century."Ya lost me there, Kevin. Not sure what exactly you're trying to say about women...?
Kevin wrote: "I feel like YA at least any YA published since 2010 are all fads and generally females that might never read any books published before this century."That's a great question, Becky.
What are you saying about women, Kevvy?
I think he's saying that girls read more and are therefore smarter than boys.
I'm a trendy woman, apparently :)Jokes aside, thank god for the girls/women buying books of any sort. They've been great for the publishing/literature industry. YA books in particular in the past 10 years or so.
No, my library doesn't put all fantasy in YA. I've only just started The Golem and the Jinni myself, so I don't know for sure how I'd market or tag it. I must say, though, that at least one of the blurbs made it look like paranormal romance, which is often pushed to YA.All I gotta say is, thank goodness there are no sparkly vampires in it.
Becky, that's hilarious about Lamb. One of my husband's favorite books. Not a kid's book.Say, a bit OT here, but I do want to broaden my reading horizons and read more 'good' 'YA.' Does anyone here want to brag on a GR Group I might like? Preferably one without too much squee or too many animated gifs?
Perhaps you could just start a thread here soliciting recommendations. Specifying what sort of genres you are interested in, for instance.
I saying that more females tend to read YA so its written more by females and geared towards females, at least for more books written since 2010.
Mary wrote: "Perhaps you could just start a thread here soliciting recommendations. Specifying what sort of genres you are interested in, for instance."Yes, specify the kind of stuff you like to read and I'll see if I know anything that's up your alley.
Kevin wrote: "I saying that more females tend to read YA so its written more by females and geared towards females, at least for more books written since 2010."That's a fair assessment. Lots of YA is written by women for women/girls. Not exactly sure how that relates to the OP or the points that followed, though. Unless you mean to say it's written by women for women, and thus doesn't catch your interest? Which, also, fair enough.
RE: The previous debate we had: Joe Abercrombie had this to say on the subject a couple of hours ago on Twitter:
"Arguments about classification of books tend to say more about the prejudices of those classifying than about the books themselves."
I think we can all agree on that :-)
I feel like that's been said before by someone else, though I can't recall who. I agree with the statement though.
Says the man who has actually managed to successfully* combine YA with grimdark. Hehe....*my opinion. Please don't blast me.
Chris wrote: "Says the man who has actually managed to successfully* combine YA with grimdark. Hehe....*my opinion. Please don't blast me."
*prepares laser array*
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I would say it depends on the argument.
If it's the sort of argument that's like, "My clearly sci-fi book is not actually sci-fi because it's too literary", then yes.
But if it's a nerd-argument over semantics, then that's more just nerds being nerds. ;)
Kevin wrote: "I saying that more females tend to read YA so its written more by females and geared towards females, at least for more books written since 2010."I'd like to state that I dislike being called "female." Any creature that reproduces is "female." All human females are girls/women.
Leaving that, I will agree that women seem to read more than men on average (GR members not counted) so more books are written to catch the attention (and thus money) of women.
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So much temptation...
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I think I sorta read in graduated form, but I didn't read a lot for pleasure when I was in school, especially not after grade school, so a lot of what I did read was school assignments and whatnot.
My parents were hardcore about no R-rated movies when I was a kid, though, so they probably woulda kept some stuff outta my hands. I didn't have much interest in horror or anything, though, so it never really got tested.