Time Travel discussion
This topic is about
If I Never Get Back
Archive Book Club Discussions
>
IF I NEVER GET BACK- (March 2015)
Mod
My first thought would be to say football but the more I think about it the beginnings of football was rather boring by modern standards, no passing...Hand off run up the middle...Hand off run around the left...Ooo look he is going right this time..
On second thought I think I would like to see some origins of olympic sport, specifically the winter games...How did sledding down the hill on a snowy day turn into high speed race down the luge track?
The NY Times reminds us this week of when the NBA was merely an "afterthought" in national sports. And it was all white until Earl Lloyd took the court for the Washington Nationals in 1950. We're not surprised at the racism of the times nor the incredible courage of Mr. Lloyd and others who challenged these barriers. What is surprising is that despite racial taunts from opposing fans and segregated facilities on the road, Lloyd said he never encountered racial animosity from teammates or opposing players. Times were changing and Earl Lloyd is credited with breaking the NBA racial barrier. I'd like to go back and see his debut. Maybe they could use an extra (me) for a pickup game after practice? I wouldn't last long, but what a trip.Earl Lloyd died this past Thursday at the age of 86.
Mod
Lincoln wrote: On second thought I think I would like to see some origins of olympic sport, specifically the winter games...
I might follow your lead and go Olympics and check out the chariot racing...
I have just joined Goodreads and this group (because time travel is my favorite reading subject bar none), but I immediately ordered this book from Amazon. I just started reading it last night. I'm not particularly into sports, though I used to play baseball years ago. I am sad to get the impression that it is not as popular a sport among the youth as it once was (but then again, anything not on an iPod is less popular these days).
The beginning of this book seemed a bit slow and hard to get into, but it seems to be warming up. I'm starting to enjoy the book.
Mod
I wasn't sure what to think of his writing style at first but now I am enjoying the story the more I get into it. He seems to have researched the period well.
The book is being held for me and I plan to pick it up today.I'm not all that into sports, but I expect it'll be more interesting to me than 'thrilling adventures' which I skip.
It's not a professional sport, but I think the biathlon is cool. I'd love to watch how well ppl could shoot and ski when wearing more traditional hunting clothing, with heavier equipment, etc.
Whenever I think about the history of sports, I think about the advances in nutrition, physiology, equipment, etc. - I'm not convinced that athletes who break records are *better* than their predecessors; it seems to me they are advantaged by science & technology.
Of course, these musings probably are unrelated to the focus of the book....
Mod
The below youtube clip is something I could probably go pro in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUMx0...
Mod
Nathan wrote: "He seems to have researched the period well..."And how! I was thinking the very same thing. I was wondering how anyone can so thoroughly research an era, down to the products available, the way cities looked, the patois and slang, the clothing, and even the details of a nascent sport. It's very impressive.
Nathan wrote: "Even though the slip through time here is vague, I'm glad he feels some repercussions. Was anyone else here slightly jealous of [spoilers removed]"Not in that context, but I do see what you mean! That is, I want to be able to sleep straight through a long night, and whenever I want to sleep, but not as the result of a mishap. ;)
Nathan wrote: "I wasn't sure what to think of his writing style at first but now I am enjoying the story the more I get into it..."When I started enjoying it I went back and read the beginning again. It was still not as interesting as subsequent chapters, but now I was more motivated.
Where is everyone holding in this book? I am in the middle of chapter 4.
Lincoln wrote: "The below youtube clip is something I could probably go pro in...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUMx0... ..."
That is funny! Thanks for sharing that!
Cheryl wrote: "...I'm not all that into sports, but I expect it'll be more interesting to me than 'thrilling adventures' which I skip....Of course, these musings probably are unrelated to the focus of the book...."I expect that you will come to enjoy the book, as I am enjoying it, despite not being interested in the history of baseball. It is fascinating, and if you're into time travel and history, there is plenty here to interest you. And the plot moves well and is entertaining.
I'd rate his wordsmith abilities (speaking as a writer, a former English teacher and son of a career English teacher, and as an editor) at somewhere around 8 out of ten stars. The subject matter might rate more. This book seems well worth reading.
Cheryl: Now that I am in chapter 8, I have to point out that in chapter 7 he gets very technical about the game, telling us blow by blow (quite literally, in fact) what happens in several games they play. However, you don't really need to pay that close attention to get the basic idea of what's going on. But it might get me and other people who are not that well-versed in the rules of the game bogged down a bit.
Tx. Mordechai. Yeah, I managed to get through that - reading it lightly. Now he's on the train getting drunk with Sam "call me Mark" Clemens.The author's research is impressive. For me, so far, it's getting in the way of the story. Our hero seems, to me, to be a bit of a Mary Sue (I forget the male term), and only misses his real life when it's convenient for the author to let him have those feelings.
Did y'all note his acknowledgement to Jack Finney? This does remind me of Time and Again re' the wealth of historical detail, but I'm not finding it nearly as engaging as the more famous book...
And, yes, I'd love a chance to sleep for a long enough time to wake up fully refreshed. I almost said 'healed' but then I remembered that the gash on his cheek, that he got in modern times, isn't healing in 1869....
Well, I'll keep plugging away for a while....
Cheryl wrote: "Did y'all note his acknowledgement to Jack Finney?"Yeah, I wondered if that's what it was. And now I can't even remember what he said to make that reference. Maybe I'm reading too fast.
Mordechai wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "Did y'all note his acknowledgement to Jack Finney?"Yeah, I wondered if that's what it was. And now I can't even remember what he said to make that reference. Maybe I'm reading too..."
He said, "I am indebted to Jack Finney for blazing a literary trail . . ." I can certainly see that. Sam is another regular guy with faults of his own, in a story with baseball and extra doses of machismo. Even if you don't know baseball very well, you can appreciate the adventure. I'm just finishing chapter seven where one of my favorite characters of the past has been introduced. Great stuff.
What faults does Sam have? False modesty is about the only one I'm seeing.I'm 2/3 through and weary.
Cheryl wrote: "What faults does Sam have? False modesty is about the only one I'm seeing.I'm 2/3 through and weary."
He seems pretty honest about his alcoholism and explosive temper, if you want to count those. Not making his life any easier.
Yeah, for the first few pp., in modern times....But note that he's one of the most sober of the nine, in 1869....
I'm done, and not glad I read it.
Ready to discuss the (unsatisfactory, imo) ending whenever the rest of you-all are. Maybe I'm missing something.
There is a sequel "Two in the Field" I really enjoyed both, but I guess you have to like baseball. As a side note, I lost my copy a long time ago and couldn't find a copy until I ran across a an good copy in a used book store and to my surprise it was an uncorrected proof copy first edition 1990. Although the method of time travel was weak I liked the story.
Mod
The most interesting to me was how baseball was played in the 1860's. That took some research. How would like to have been a catcher. And the pitching underhand allowed more hitting and many runs unlike the 3-2 yawners today.
Mod
I can't imagine the beating those catchers took. The rampant spiking with cleats would be terrible too.
The fair/foul rule was really interesting, with you being able to bounce it foul prior to the bases and still play it. I can feel for Sam and his confusion while learning it all.
It's interesting that Brock does not tell us anything much about the velocipede Johnny was riding. There is a book about the Demarest Velocipede, probably the very model Brock has Johnny ride in that ill-fated race. It is called "The Velocipede: Its History, Varieties, and Practice," written by J. T. Goddard, published in 1869! You can read the entire book online. Just type in the title at Google Books, if this sort of thing interests you. I'm only mildly interested, but not enough to actually read the book.
I finally finished the book. When can we talk openly about it?
One problem I have with this book is a minor one: the author takes on way too much. Much of the detail is fascinating, but he packs so many different things in and espouses too many causes. Women's equality, racism, the Native American issue, Irish independence, and on and on. All good causes, but enough already! It might have been period, but to also add the cowboy-western card-playing meme was also stuffing too much into the stew. Interesting, but wow.
Still, I want to read the sequel, if only to dispel how I feel about the ending of "If I Never Return."
Cheryl wrote: " 'm done, and not glad I read it.Ready to discuss the (unsatisfactory, imo) ending whenever the rest of you-all are. Maybe I'm missing something.
I have mixed feelings about the book, but I was also unhappy with the ending. Too confusing, not satisfying, and somewhat unhappy. The promise of a possible better future does not work for me, not in real life, and not in fiction.
Mod
I have to return this to the library soon, so I'll start talking about the ending now.(view spoiler)
Cheryl wrote: "... so I'll start talking about the ending now. [spoilers removed]"I have those very same questions, in particular about the piece of dress. (view spoiler)
No spoilers in this post. When I first began reading the book, I thought that the author was having fun with the names. After all, "Waterman," when every team today has a waterboy. "Brainard," for an intelligent guy. And a few others. But I did research, and I found that these were the actual names of the very first professional baseball team,, the Cincinnati Red Stockings. So this was based on actual, real people.
Oh, yeah, the names - tx for doing the research.I like your 'humble opinion' inside your spoiler. It never occurred to me, because (view spoiler)
Cheryl wrote: "Oh, yeah, the names - tx for doing the research.I like your 'humble opinion' inside your spoiler. It never occurred to me, because [spoilers removed]"
Well, I'm not either, at least in real life. Or at least I try and check myself when the impulse comes to me.
Mod
If you could get caught up in a treasure hunt with any famous author or literary figure, who would you pick?
I like the use of Twain in this novel myself. I have always been a Twain fan. I think the author did a good job with him so far. (In chapter 12)
Nathan wrote: "I like the use of Twain in this novel myself. I have always been a Twain fan. I think the author did a good job with him so far. (In chapter 12) "I'm also a Twain fan, and yes, I think it was fairly accurate. There was one thing that I thought was out of place, but I'm blanking on it now. When I get home I'll try to remember to look it up.
Well gosh, I think I'd have to go with a sleuth or an adventurer. Bilbo Baggins, or Sherlock Holmes, somebody like that.
Did you note near the end of Chapter 27 How someone refers to a man named Cartwright as the creator of baseball, and not Abner Doubleday? Turns out he's (probably) right. See http://www.history.com/news/ask-histo... where they say that it was actually Spalding, who you will remember was on a team the Stockings played against, who made up the story of Doubleday. Brock's prodigious research never ceases to amaze me.
Mod
https://images.search.yahoo.com/image...
Mod
Lincoln wrote: "Love Time Travel fiction but weaving real history into fiction is awesome!! Nice find Nathan"Yes, sometimes that's the very best!
Nathan wrote: "When he discusses the times the team has their photo taken, I gathered he was probably referencing a real photo. Sure enough, if you look up the images for 1869 Red Stockings, you see their team ph..."Thank you for posting that link. Those pics are amazing (well, not including the pics of the logo on some two dozen cell phones). I had no idea they had such pics from back then. Wow.
Mod
What were your thoughts on the supernatural elements of this story? I don't read a lot of novels that employ ghosts or supernatural events in the pot so this surprised me. I was okay with it since it was new to me. How did you feel about it?
Well, I'm used to that sort of thing, but I wasn't expecting it in this book. Also, I didn't feel that the message was clear.
Mod
As to the ending, what I gathered was (view spoiler)
Nathan wrote: "I just finished it. I agree that it was a vague use of the supernatural. Yes. Your explanation of the 'end' makes sense, as far as I can understand, Nathan.
I also agree that Clara Antonia's character and role should have been further developed.
What did you rate it?
I agree about Clara Antonia, especially about (view spoiler) I suppose that necessitates a sequel. I might just read it if I can afford to get it.
Mordechai wrote: "I agree about Clara Antonia, especially about [spoilers removed]"I have no problem with Clara Antonia. I like her just as presented, a minor character who brings a major element to the story, that of potential powers that we can't fully understand. And for full enjoyment they're best left that way –– a paranormal mystery, unknown forces, the stuff of many fine novels. And who's to say they're any more (or less) credible than futuristic science fiction? (I enjoy both.) Apparently Ms. Antonia is credible enough for Caitlin, Andy, and others, but Sam is still in the dark as to a thorough explanation, and therefore we must be. Sam is our 1st person narrator so we know no more than he does.
Time Travel
Books mentioned in this topic
Book of Humorous Quotations (other topics)Time and Again (other topics)
Pre-reading question:#1
If you could see the beginning era of any professional sport, what would you pick?