Buddy Read for The Expanse Series-Leviathan Wakes-Nov 2022

[Graeme]

Felina wrote: "I’m so excited to watch the show now...."

I watched the show for the first time within the last year or two. I was stunned by how good it was, and binge watched the first five series (I had to wait for #6 to come out). Then I turned around (and I've never done this before) binge watched it for a second time.

Then I started reading the books and I haven't yet completed the written series.

[Felina]

Does it stay pretty close to the books?

[Graeme]

Felina wrote: "Does it stay pretty close to the books?"

It varies, Felina. There are scenes and dialog in the show that are an exact match with the book, then there's variances right up to new characters that merge two secondary characters from the book, and/or characters in the show who are drawn much more sympathetically then they are in the books.

In both instances, I enjoyed both results. In some sense of the word, the show is both a more and somewhat less faithful interpretation of the books at the same time, but the essential story themes and the core characters are the same.

In both cases, 5 star brilliance.

[Nyssa]

I just read Chapter Six --- How did they not know about the lockers!?! It didn't sound like they shared the space with any other agency. Hopefully, it will be explained sooner than later, but that just seemed... odd, wrong, and nonsensical.

Miller is very good at his job!
I feel for his partner; I don't know what will happen there, but I understand his sense of "otherness" despite his best efforts.

Re: The show - @Graeme - Could you estimate how many books are covered per season?

[Felina]

Oh Nyssa. All of your questions will be answered. That’s what’s kinda of amazing about this book. There are no unanswered questions and everything serves to forward the story.

Miller is my favorite character. He gets the raw end on so many occasions. (Hugs)

[Nyssa]

Yeah. I like Miller too.

I hope Havelock gets out alive! As I said, I feel for him.

I’m glad to know answers are coming.

I just finished Chapter 10; I really don’t like their Captain, Shaddid.

As for Holden and crew —- I like that group too. I am curious about what’s going to happen there. I think all of my concerns have been voiced by one character or another. Mainly that surprise message.

[Graeme]

Nyssa wrote: "Re: The show - @Graeme - Could you estimate how many books are covered per season?..."

Pretty much one for one, although they fit in the 'inbetween,' novellas and novelettes, which I have not read.

For example, Season one covers both and , so, season two covers off book #2 and any associated shorter story.

In each season, the main volume provides the primary story.

All that said, given they stopped making the series at 6 (and that was only half the normal episodes) the TV undershoots the full story and ends early.

[Nyssa]

Cool. Thank you!

[Krystal]

I put this aside to start but then I bought The Outsider instead XD so I'll probably start next week or so.

[Terry]

I've just started on it. This is actually a re-read for me on book#1 from back in 2017, although I never did go on to book#2 last time. It's good to get back into this world again.

[Ginger]

Planning on starting this tomorrow. I'm excited to see how close the book series is to what they did with the TV series. I watched every season and absolutely loved it.

Super happy to finally read this series and thanks for the push you all!

[Kristen]

Just started tonight! I’ve never watched the tv series but really excited for the books.

[Terry]

I've not watched the tv series either as I knew I was eventually going to read the rest of the books and wanted to get through them first. I do plan to watch as we finish them though.

[Nyssa]

I just finished Chapter 18.

Re: Miller - Damn!!

[Nyssa]

I decided to watch the first episode of The Expanse.

Miller, Havelock, and Holden don't even look close to what I pictured.
Naomi looks and sounds the way I pictured Ade would.

And the onscreen personalities as a whole are also different than how they seem in the book. In fact, the attitudes toward the Scopuli situation almost feel flipped. (view spoiler)[What felt like mild reluctance in the book feels like full-on hostility in the show. (hide spoiler)]. Oh, and (view spoiler)[instead of a "gasp," Ade has unfinished words! (hide spoiler)]

For now, I think I'll stay with the books.

[Felina]

I also noticed your first spoiler. (view spoiler)[ I was wondering why they all seem to hate Holdens guts. Like it seems like they want to fight him. It’s weird. (hide spoiler)]

[Felina]

I knew Thomas Jane was Miller so I pictured him when I read the book but I imagined Holden looking a lot more like the dude that plays Mr. Fantastic in the first fantastic four movies that came out with Jessica Alba. He is a lot younger in the show then I imagined. I don’t think I really pictured Naomi except that she was badass and I think that actress fits that bill.

[Nyssa]

Felina wrote: "I also noticed your first spoiler. [spoilers removed]"

^^THIS^^

(view spoiler)[The way it's set up in the show, there is no way they would be loyal and follow him going forward. That one choice completely changes the dynamics of the crew! (hide spoiler)]

Also, I do not like how he is portrayed. It's one thing to be laid back or easygoing, but show-Holden gives off fratboy/slacker vibes that just don't fit.

Just a lot about that episode didn't sit right with me. However, I don't know how I would have felt if I had watched it cold - without reading the book. I probably would not have liked Holden at all.

Re: Mr. Fantastic - Ioan Gruffudd?

I liked him in the British show Horatio Hornblower (my introduction to him as an actor). Unfortunately, I think many of his American projects did him a disservice. I would love to see him in something again.

*Side Note: Hornblower is also the first time I saw Jaimie Bamber (Apollo from Battlestar Galactica).

[Nyssa]

I am currently reading Chapter 48.

I am unsure how spoilery my thoughts are, so I will use spoiler tags just in case.

Re: Hoden & Miller - (view spoiler)[I understood why Miller did what he did regarding Dresden. I understood Holden's reaction but felt he was too hard on Miller.
I'm glad to know Naomi agreed; I wish she had spoken up sooner.
The fact that this is a multi-book series leads me to believe that things will not go as planned. What that means for Holden and Miller, though, I don't know. I hope they can make amends before it's too late. I would hate for the men's friendship to end this way, but I am afraid that is exactly what will happen. (hide spoiler)]

Re: Miller - (view spoiler)[It seems Miller is officially on a self-proposed suicide mission, whether the plans for Eros are successful or not.
He has lost everything that ever meant anything to him. Plus, his current employer has no trust in him.
I feel for him and am saddened by his current plight.
I am anxious to see what happens with him. (hide spoiler)]

On a lighter note: I think (view spoiler)[ Naomi is good for Holden. The romantic in me wants them to be a happily-ever-after couple! (hide spoiler)]

.

[Ginger]

Just got to the beginning of Chapter 12. I'm enjoying how the characters of Holden (later in the TV series, not first season) and Miller in the book aren't that far off from the TV series.

I still think Thomas Jane was a good decision for Miller!

I think in the TV series that the character of Holden could have been better. I do think that Steven Strait does get better in the later seasons but I can see why his character in the 1st season is a bit problematic. I had a hard time liking him until later if that helps anyone who wants to watch this as they are reading it....

Wes Chatham as Amos and Dominique Tipper as Naomi are great casting choices in my opinion.
It's been fun to read this and see the differences or lack of differences so far. I'm enjoying it!

I can't wait for Chrisjen Avasarala to finally make an entrance!

[Jason]

really enjoying this book, wondering why I left it so long.

[Choko]

I decided to start with the two short stories first - 0.2 The Churn and 0.5 The Butcher of Anderson Station... This is how I have them in my audio folder. I have not seen the show, so I feel kind of free to imagine all the characters in my own way:) Let's see what happens..

[Felina]

Jason wrote: "really enjoying this book, wondering why I left it so long."

I can definitely agree with that.

[Krystal]

Hoping to start this today or tomorrow, will go back through comments then!

[Choko]

Finished the two short stories. Rough state of the world at this point for sure. Started reading Levitan Wakes and in Ch. 4. I see now that the main character from Churn is going to be a mechanic on the crew together with Holden.

The prologue intrigued me and obviously the girl who was in it was the one Miller is looking for. I am enjoying the connections and kind of sad to see that humans, even so far in the future, still find ways to see only the differences in each other and discriminate against one another... Hate is the easiest feeling to awake and cultivate, unfortunately...

[Ginger]

Choko wrote: "I am enjoying the connections and kind of sad to see that humans, even so far in the future, still find ways to see only the differences in each other and discriminate against one another... Hate is the easiest feeling to awake and cultivate, unfortunately......"

I also enjoyed all the connections while I watched this series on TV and now as I'm reading the series. I completely agree with you Choko. You would think that this far in the future that humans would finally get along but that's not the case.

There is still tribalism with Earthers, Mars and the Belters. It's pretty fascinating what they do with this series with these three fractions and I'm looking forward to seeing what you think as we move forward with the books!

[Choko]

Yeah... Tribalism is one of those two edged swords. It is good for the feeling of identity and belonging it engenders, but just as harsh for the "us vs. them" mentality that comes with it. I love how different we all are, why can't we all appreciate each other's differences and embrace them for how much they enrich us? Obviously, in the Expanse world, the three groups are quite interdependent, but they still emphasize what makes them "other"... I feel horrible for Havelock. The poor dude is trying so hard to do a good job and to get along with everyone, but because he is an Earther, he is treated as a pariah...

Ch. 6... (view spoiler)[ The missing riot gear definitely portens bad things to come.... I could almost hear "Tum-tum-tuuuuummmm!!!" when they opened the lockers and they were empty... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Up to Ch. 15... Doesn't seem like everyone Holden gets involved with becomes quite unlucky? I feel for all those folks...

[Graeme]

Choko wrote: "Up to Ch. 15... Doesn't seem like everyone Holden gets involved with becomes quite unlucky? I feel for all those folks..."

It's one of those situations where you stumble into something far bigger than you are - then you have to adapt to the situation - or die!

Holden and the crew are all in that situ, and hence one of the reasons they end up welding together as a team.

[Graeme]

Choko wrote: "Yeah... Tribalism is one of those two edged swords. It is good for the feeling of identity and belonging it engenders, but just as harsh for the "us vs. them" mentality that comes with it. I love h..."

Human beings love in/out groups. They give belonging and an opportunity to blame 'others,' all while delivering a sense of persistent identity - hugely seductive.

[Choko]

Graeme, you are totally right! It feels great to be swept in the wave of belonging, and many love the feeling of "I belong while you don't"... It is that the markers of "other" are mostly superficial and cosmetic, while when stripped down to basic, we are all much more alike than not... But as you said, it is super seductive to fall into it...

[Krystal]

Only a few chapters in but liking it so far! I'm enjoying the multiple views, and I'm still so curious to know more about what happened to Julie!

I won't watch the series until I finish this one, I think.

[Choko]

I am up to Ch. 39 and I am kind of pissed at Holden! (view spoiler)[ I am totally with Miller on this - you can't willy-nilly broadcast information which would be used however people see fit, without a deeper understanding of the information! Holden already started a war with his implying that Mars destroyed the first ship where Julie was. Instead of learning from what happened after, once again he discovers something that might implicate Earth as the culprit, without stopping to think that the political situation is a powder keg, and what the repercussions might be, he broadcasts it again, stating that people should know the truth! What truth? He has no idea what the Truth is, and he keeps sending out those snapshots of incendiary partial data, which could be planted specifically to manipulate anyone looking for answers! He thinks he is being smart, open and righteous, but he is just being impulsive and ridiculously naive! Borderline stupid, if you ask me. And then he dares judge others as not trustworthy???? Ggghhhhhrrrr! The only thing that redeems him in my eyes is that he doesn't do it maliciously, but from a good heart and with good intentions. Only, as we all know, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions and here millions of innocent bystanders are going to get killed because of his good intentions... I am not absolving the actual players who do the killing, but his impulsivity is making him a great patsy in their hands... (hide spoiler)]

Did I mention I really love Miller?:)))

[Felina]

Yeah Holden lives in absolutes when reality is not that clean.

[Choko]

Felina, exactly! And even here, in Ch. 45 (view spoiler)[ he kicked Miller out of his crew because he shot Dresden. The dude was a very, very bad guy, who had no remorse and planned on doing even worse, knowing that his money and influence can get him out of anything having to do with consequences! He needed to go, but Holden acts all high and mighty over Miller's action over one bad dude, while his own actions led to millions dying?!?! Why does he think he has the right to judge, but no one else does? His logic boggles my mind! (hide spoiler)]...

I am loving the book, enjoying the characters and the writing, but boy does Holden bug me! Aimos' conversation with Miller, how the two of them are kind of alike, while H is righteous, it makes sense, and I see it, but righteousness doesn't mean right nor in touch with reality...

[Choko]

Nyssa, I just read your thoughts on Holden -Miller and I completely agree! About Holden - Naomi (view spoiler)[ I think she is good for him as well, because she is more in touch with how real life works, not just the ideal of how life should be. However, I am not sure that they could work in the long run. They have such different backgrounds, those relationships are very hard to sustain... (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Dresden is out and out evil. People like Dresden fall in love with ideas and projects that allow/justify/'call to duty,' them to do precisely what they want to do to anyone they want to do it to. He was someone who was thoroughly excited by the evil he was doing.

Thinking about Holden's righteousness, it ultimately comes across as 'moral arrogance,' and like all forms of arrogance likely to cause error and destruction.

Contrawise to Holden, we have Amos, a fellow who is first to claim 'I'm not a moral genius,' and yet, while ruthless, he has an unerring ability to spot those who are good and those who are evil, and act accordingly.

The morally humble man is the more 'moral,' of the two men.

[Nyssa]

@Felina - Exactly, this entire experience makes him look at himself and the people around him more closely than his comfort level allows. It's all too much for him; he knows he's in over his head, so he wraps himself in a protective wall of absolutes and stubbornly holds on to them.

@Choko - I think Naomi's more realistic viewpoint will influence and help temper Holden.

@Graeme - Yes, to everything you said.
Re Holden: I feel that arrogance is partly ingrained from his time in the military, plus the fact that he is now expected to lead his crew and a part of the protective wall.

[Graeme]

@Nyssa,

Regarding Holden, he is on a journey, and we'll have to wait see if experience tempers his righteousness into something a lot more grounded.

[Choko]

Graeme, preach! I completely agree and you said it much better than I could have...

Nyssa, I also agree with you:)))

[Graeme]

Thanks, Choko. Much appreciated.

[Choko]

Just finished and wow! That was a dramatic ending with open doors for series continuation... Still favorite character was Miller and I want to know more!!!

Speaking of, when are we reading the next book and are we continuing in this thread?

[Graeme]

Choko wrote: "Just finished and wow! That was a dramatic ending with open doors for series continuation... Still favorite character was Miller and I want to know more!!!

Speaking of, when are we reading the ne..."

I loved the first book too. I would imagine there'd be a new thread for each book. I'd be happy to tag along with any readers, and then get back in for book #4 (re-read to re-connect) and then go onto Book #5+

[Choko]

Just say when and I will be there:) I guess we will wait for everyone to finish this one first though:)))

[Ginger]

Choko wrote: "Just finished and wow! That was a dramatic ending with open doors for series continuation... Still favorite character was Miller and I want to know more!!!

Speaking of, when are we reading the ne..."

I'm hoping there is a new thread for each book and I'll definitely be there for the rest of the series.
Glad to see you finished Choko and liked it!

[Choko]

Thanks, Ginger:) This is definitely up my alley:)!

[Terry]

I’m definitely in for the next book as well, although I’m only about at the midpoint of this one, so still a ways to go.

[Felina]

My plan was to do a new thread for each book and to do one book a month. I’ll ask the mods to create the new thread for the second book starting in December.

[Graeme]

Felina wrote: "My plan was to do a new thread for each book and to do one book a month. I’ll ask the mods to create the new thread for the second book starting in December."

Awesome! Thanks Felina.

[Sally, The Ninja Clown]

On it!