Reading the 20th Century discussion
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Group Reads -> August 2022 -> Nomination thread (Noir - won by Laidlaw by William McIlvanney)
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I've never read anything by Jim Thompson and am keen to sample his work. I've loved many of the film adaptations.
Jim Thompson was born in Anadarko, Oklahoma. He began writing fiction at a very young age, selling his first story to True Detective when he was only fourteen. Thompson eventually wrote twenty-nine novels, all but three of which were published as paperback originals. Thompson also co-wrote two screenplays (for the Stanley Kubrick films The Killing and Paths of Glory). Several of his novels have been filmed by American and French directors, resulting in classic noir including The Killer Inside Me (1952), After Dark My Sweet(1955), and The Grifters (1963).
My nomination is...
Pop. 1280 (1964)
…which is often cited as Jim Thompson’s best book
More about Pop. 1280…
Nick Corey is a terrible sheriff on purpose. He doesn't solve problems, enforce rules or arrest criminals. He knows that nobody in tiny Potts County actually wants to follow the law and he is perfectly content lazing about, eating five meals a day, and sleeping with all the eligible women.
Still, Nick has some very complex problems to deal with. Two local pimps have been sassing him, ruining his already tattered reputation. His girlfriend Rose is being terrorized by her husband. And then, there's his wife and her brother Lenny who won't stop troubling Nick's already stressed mind. Are they a little too close for a brother and a sister?
With an election coming up, Nick needs to fix his problems and fast. Because the one thing Nick does know is that he will do anything to stay sheriff. Because, as it turns out, Sheriff Nick Corey is not nearly as dumb as he seems.
In Pop. 1280, widely regarded as a classic of mid-20th century crime, Thompson offers up one of his best, in a tale of lust, murder, and betrayal in the Deep South that was the basis for the critically acclaimed French film Coup de Torchon.
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Laura Hunt was the ideal modern woman: beautiful, elegant, highly ambitious, and utterly mysterious. No man could resist her charms—not even the hardboiled NYPD detective sent to find out who turned her into a faceless corpse. As this tough cop probes the mystery of Laura's death, he becomes obsessed with her strange power. Soon he realizes he's been seduced by a dead woman—or has he?
Laura won lasting renown as an Academy Award-nominated 1944 film, the greatest noir romance of all time. Vera Caspary's equally haunting novel is remarkable for its stylish, hardboiled writing, its electrifying plot twists, and its darkly complex characters—including a woman who stands as the ultimate femme fatale.
I haven't read Caspary but she is one of those authors whose works are back in print via Kindle.
GR has this to say about her:
Vera Caspary, an acclaimed American writer of novels, plays, short stories and screenplays, was born in Chicago in 1899. Her writing talent shone from a young age and, following the death of her father, her work became the primary source of income for Caspary and her mother. A young woman when the Great Depression hit America, Caspary soon developed a keen interest in Socialist causes, and joined the Communist Party under a pseudonym. Although she soon left the party after becoming disillusioned, Caspary's leftist leanings would later come back to haunt her when she was greylisted from Hollywood in the 1950s for Communist sympathies. Caspary spent this period of self-described 'purgatory' alternately in Europe and America with her husband, Igee Goldsmith, in order to find work. After Igee's death in 1964, Caspary returned permanently to New York, where she wrote a further eight titles. Vera Caspary died in 1987 and is survived by a literary legacy of strong independent female characters.
Female-authored noir and femmes fatales - yes please!
I'll nominate 
Black Betty by Walter MosleyI love noir, and was very impressed by the first book in this series, and Mosley's writing generally. This one may involve some interesting to discuss historical happenings, as well as all too current racial issues.
On top of Book Riot's six best of Mosley's Easy Rawlins series, it was published in 1994 and takes place in 1960's Los Angeles.
Here's what Book Riot says about it:
It is 1961 and the country has a young Irish president, John Kennedy. Easy Rawlins does not share the country’s enthusiasm. Easy is anxious about the Russian nuclear bombs being tested and anxious about money, or the lack of it, to support his young children. That is when the sleazy Saul Lynx, the white private detective that Easy Rawlins always avoids, asks Easy to locate the missing housekeeper, known as “Black Betty,” for the politically influential and wealthy Beverly Hills family the Cains. Black Betty’s disappearance had the ripple effect of a few other people who were close to Black Betty also going missing. Easy finds the twisted heartache and the racial reckonings behind Black Betty’s disappearance.
“It was a rhythm more satisfying than good music. I could have spent a whole life watching my children grow. Even though we didn’t share common blood I loved them so much that it hurt sometimes.
I seemed to collect children in my line of work; doing ‘favors‘ for people. I took Jesus out of a life of child prostitution before he was three. I’d caught the murderer of Feather’s white mother. It was Feather’s grandfather, who had killed his own daughter for bearing a black child.”
Book Riot says about Mosley:
For education and elucidation regarding the social, political, and cultural fabric of Los Angeles from the 1950s through the 1960s, read the Easy Rawlins books.
The genius of Mosley and his immortal character Easy Rawlins has often been compared to the noir novels of Raymond Chandler or Dashiell Hammett. But Mosley goes a great deal further with Easy Rawlins: these are not the lightweight atmospheric stories involving the very usual suspects of bad women and weak men.
I'd be happy with both of the nominees so far (I read Black Betty in the 90s and remember enjoying it) but, to continue my unbroken run of failed nominations: Farewell, My Lovely by Raymond Chandler.
Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm nominating Laura by Vera Caspary (1942):Laura Hunt was the ideal modern woman: beautiful, elegant, highly ambitious, and utterly mysterious. No man could resis..."
I read this recently and found it excellent.
Sid wrote: "I'd be happy with both of the nominees so far (I read Black Betty in the 90s and remember enjoying it) but, to continue my unbroken run of failed nominations: Farewell, My Lovely by Ray..."Ooo The next one I want to read.
Kathleen wrote: "I'll nominate Black Betty by Walter MosleyI love noir, and was very impressed by the first book in this series, and Mosley's writing gene..."
Another good nomination. Read it years ago. Saw an excellent review of another of his books this week in the NYT by someone (John McWhorter) who had been avoiding his books for years and then finally broke down and read one. Found he had to go back and read all of his other books.
These are all good nominations. Of course, I have read them all. I'm only reluctant to re-read Laura because I just read it a couple of months ago.Browsing my list I came upon Charlotte Armstrong's The Unsuspected. From 1946. Turned into a movie with Claude Rains. Relatively short - 217 pp.
Why did Rosaleen hang herself in a soundproof room? Her boss, Luther Grandison, is an impresario who apparently strikes everybody differently.
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Me too!
The only one I've read is Laura, which I thought was very special. Thompson and Armstrong would both be new to me, so very excited to try them. And I haven't read Chandler yet either, so would love to read that one. So yeah, I want to read them all too!
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Laidlaw
THE FIRST IN THE ORIGINAL LAIDLAW TRILOGY. WINNER OF THE CWA SILVER DAGGER.
When a young woman is found brutally murdered in Kelvingrove Park, only one man stands a chance of finding her killer. Jack Laidlaw. He is a man of contrasts, ravaged by inner demons but driven by a deep compassion for the violent criminals in Glasgow’s underworld. But will Laidlaw’s unorthodox methods get him to the killer in time, when the victim’s father is baying for blood?
Acclaimed for its corrosive wit, dark themes and original maverick detective, the Laidlaw trilogy has earned the status of classic crime fiction.
Susan wrote: "I will throw one into the mix:Laidlaw
"Agreed, Susan. Brilliant. (The other two in the trilogy are just as good, too.)
No matter which book wins the poll, I can see a lot of buddy reads coming out of this thread.
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I read Laidlaw when it first came out - and the fact that I remember that 45 years on means it must have impressive. Like Charlie M, Laidlaw is available as a free listen for Audible members (and a free read on Kindle Unlimited)
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"I will throw Laidlaw into the mix"
One reviewer states that it...
"Reminded me of a Scottish Derek Raymond"
Antennae going crazy
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Last call for nominations
Poll going up tomorrow morning
Nominations…
Jim Thompson - Pop. 1280 (Nigeyb)
Vera Caspary - Laura (Roman Clodia)
Walter Mosley - Black Betty (Kathleen)
Raymond Chandler - Farewell, My Lovely (Sid)
Charlotte Armstrong - The Unsuspected (Jan C)
Laidlaw - William McIlvanney (Susan)
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I won't nominate this month. This is somewhat outside of my usual reading (although I do love noir in film and TV), but I hope to read the winner and join you.
I just googled what makes a book noir and found this, “a protagonist lacking a moral center and an unhappy ending.” That sounds too simplistic to me, but I don’t think I’ve ever read noir, other than The Long Take. How would others define noir novels?
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So Chandler I'd say is hard-boiled: Philip Marlowe *does* have a moral centre, he's figured as a knight on a white charger in one of the books (The Big Sleep?) and he's the good man in a bad world - hence his weary cynicism, though he continues to strive against the tide of greed and corruption.
Noir, I think, lacks that moral centre: everyone is caught up in a system based on greed, selfishness, institutionalised corruption, sex and violence. I haven't read any of the other authors but certainly I'd say James Ellroy and David Peace (who Nigeyb has dubbed neo-noir) fit that pessimistic noir scheme.
I haven't read Walter Mosley but from reading the blurbs think Easy Rawlins might be more hard-boiled in the Chandler model, another good man striving to hold onto moral values in a world that is set against him.
Very interested to hear what others think.
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'The thrill of noir is the rush of moral forfeit and the abandonment to titillation. The social importance of noir is its grounding in the big themes of race, class, gender, and systemic corruption. The overarching and lasting appeal of noir is that it makes doom fun.'
Mod
I love that quote--sums it up perfectly. I've always thought of noir as bad people doing bad things. Even the ones with morals are surrounded by that corruption and doom. It doesn't sound like fun, but it is!
Although Dashiell Hammett's works are not normally considered "noir" he is generally credited with having created the genre. It is the step beyond The Glass Key, Red Harvest, The Dain Curse.
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Here's the poll
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...
Nominations…
Jim Thompson - Pop. 1280 (Nigeyb)
Vera Caspary - Laura (Roman Clodia)
Walter Mosley - Black Betty (Kathleen)
Raymond Chandler - Farewell, My Lovely (Sid)
Charlotte Armstrong - The Unsuspected (Jan C)
Laidlaw - William McIlvanney (Susan)
Thank you for those summaries. I don’t think noir is my thing, but one day I’ll try a noir novel.
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Nick and Nora Charles are Hammett's most enchanting creations, a rich, glamorous couple who solve homicides in between wisecracks and martinis. At once knowing and unabashedly romantic, The Thin Man is a murder mystery that doubles as a sophisticated comedy of manners.
Who's read it? Who's interested in reading it?
Haven't these images been used on Georgette Heyer's mysteries?
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Oddly, I can't find The Thin Man on kindle on Amazon, only in paperback.
I've never read it but I think it would depend on how many buddies are suggested.
Walter Mosley looks good, but I'd always rather start with the first in a series.
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I'd also like to start Walter Mosley with the first: I have Devil in a Blue Dress.
Roman Clodia wrote: "As we've been talking about possible buddies after the poll, can I just register my interest in reading The Thin Man. I've never read Dashiell Hammett but love the sound of this..."I'm up for a buddy read of any Hammett. I was less keen on The Thin Man than some of his harder-boiled books like the Continental Op series, The Maltese Falcon and so on, but it was (like so many books now) a long time ago and I'd be glad to give to another try.
I can't resist quoting Chandler on Hammett from his classic essay The Simple Art Of Murder:
"A rather revolutionary debunking of both the language and material of fiction had been going on for
some time. It probably started in poetry; almost everything does. You can take it clear back to Walt Whitman, if you
like. But Hammett applied it to the detective story, and this, because of its heavy crust of English gentility and
American pseudo- gentility, was pretty hard to get moving. I doubt that Hammett had any deliberate artistic aims
whatever; he was trying to make a living by writing something he had first hand information about. He made some
of it up; all writers do; but it had a basis in fact; it was made up out of real things. The only reality the English
detection writers knew was the conversational accent of Surbiton and Bognor Regis. If they wrote about dukes and
Venetian vases, they knew no more about them out of their own experience than the well-heeled Hollywood
character knows about the French Modernists that hang in his Bel-Air château or the semi-antique Chippendale-
cumcobbler’s bench that he uses for a coffee table. Hammett took murder out of the Venetian vase and dropped it
into the alley; it doesn’t have to stay there forever, but it was a good idea to begin by getting as far as possible from
Emily Post’s idea of how a well-bred debutante gnaws a chicken wing. He wrote at first (and almost to the end) for
people with a sharp, aggressive attitude to life. They were not afraid of the seamy side of things; they lived there.
Violence did not dismay them; it was right down their street.
Hammett gave murder back to the kind of people that commit it for reasons, not just to provide a corpse; and with
the means at hand, not with hand-wrought duelling pistols, curare, and tropical fish. He put these people down on
paper as they are, and he made them talk and think in the language they customarily used for these purposes. He had
style, but his audience didn’t know it, because it was in a language not supposed to be capable of such refinements."
There's a good deal more on Hammett, and the whole thing is brilliant. Available here if anyone wants to read it:
https://mysteryfictions.web.unc.edu/w...
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I enjoyed all the Mosley books but not to the extent that I want to read them again.
Definitely up for Sid's earlier suggestion of reading all the Chandler books
I've read a few Hammett's and like them but would be unlikely to reread them just yet
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Susan wrote: "The vote is a draw at the moment anyway, so it's unclear which, if either, book will win."Laidlaw has just crept into the lead, coming into the final furlong...
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"Laidlaw has just crept into the lead, coming into the final furlong..."
Yup, I switched my vote. Jim Thompson was getting no traction amongst the good folk here at RTTC
I switched on the basis that there's enthusiasm for doing the Marlowe books as a series of buddy reads and, of course, Laidlaw, the other front runner, looks very interesting and so I'm all in with that one too.
But, as mentioned elsewhere, I could happily read any of the nominations. A very strong selection.
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It's now neck and neck again - Four votes apiece for Laidlow and Farewell, My Lovely
There must have been another switcher
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...
Less than 24 hours to go before the vote closes
Yes, I switched. I too will read whichever wins but I have a slight preference for the Chandler. But I see RC has countered my vote!
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Laidlaw - 5 votes, 45.5%
Farewell, My Lovely - 4 votes, 36.4%
Black Betty (Easy Rawlins #4) - 1 vote, 9.1%
The Unsuspected - 1 vote, 9.1%
Pop. 1280 - 0 votes, 0.0%
Laura - 0 votes, 0.0%
Could it get any more tense?
Just checked my library, and they have Laidlaw. I'm in.
Tense! I won't have any nails left by tomorrow...
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Laidlaw - 6 votes, 46.2%
Farewell, My Lovely - 5 votes, 38.5%
Black Betty (Easy Rawlins #4) - 1 vote, 7.7%
The Unsuspected - 1 vote, 7.7%
Pop. 1280 - 0 votes, 0.0%
Laura - 0 votes, 0.0%
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/2...
I'm expecting all-night rolling news as results come in - with analysis from Laura Kuenssberg, obvs.
And Robert McKenzie and his swingometer (for those old enough to remember).
Rosina wrote: "And Robert McKenzie and his swingometer (for those old enough to remember)."Old enough to remember? That's new-fangled technology to me. 😉
As this is noir month can we really trust the voting or the count? Stop the Steal!
Reading the 20th Century
Books mentioned in this topic
Laidlaw (other topics)Black Betty (other topics)
Bedelia (other topics)
The Getaway (other topics)
The Grifters (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Walter Mosley (other topics)Jim Thompson (other topics)
James Crumley (other topics)
William McIlvanney (other topics)
Dashiell Hammett (other topics)
More...
Our August 2022 theme is Noir
Please nominate a 20th century book (either written in the 20th century or set in it) that is centred around the theme of Noir, and that you would like to read and discuss. It could be fiction or non-fiction
Please supply the title, author, a brief synopsis, and anything else you'd like to mention about the book, and why you think it might make a good book to discuss.
Happy nominating.