Remix versus Retread

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Help me out here.

I’ve been struggling with this idea for a few months now. Namely: why do some things feel like a pleasant remix while others seem like tired retreads? I see this with books, with movies, and, most recently, with video games.

Is it just style? Or is there something more to it?

Obviously we’re all drawing upon the same cultural touchstones, so everything is really just a variation on a theme. There are only so many ways you can tell a story with a dragon or a space marine, but why do some feel fun while others feel like ripoffs?

I can’t put my finger on it.

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If you’ve never seen Kirby Ferguson’s classic extraordinary video series “Everything Is A Remix”, he updated it last year: https://youtu.be/MZ2GuvUWaP8 I can’t recommend it highly enough. It should be required viewing for everyone.

The examples are many and varied, from music to movies and beyond. I’m not against remixes; I embrace them. In Ecclesiastes it says, “There’s nothing new under the sun,” and that was written over 3,000 years ago.

George Lucas couldn’t get the rights to make a Flash Gordon movie, so he took the characters from that story, mashed them up with the characters and style of the Japanese film Hidden Fortress, added some iconography from Westerns and pirate movies with WWII movies (notably The Dam Busters), and created Star Wars. It’s the most successful single example of remixing ever.

I think Ferguson gets into all that, actually, but there have been numerous videos exploring this, not to mention how John Williams simply remixed the music of other composers into the iconic Star Wars score.

I just can’t quite figure out why sometimes I like remixes and sometimes I loathe them.

[John (Nevets)]

My take, and based on previous discussions, I do think this bugs me way less then you. But not saying there isn't something to what you are saying.

Storytelling in any medium is a craft. And like other crafts it relies on both experience and natural ability. If the storyteller is doing there job well, it matters much less what ingredients they use to tell it. How many stories does Neil Gaiman tell that are groundbreakingly original ? , yet he does such an awesome job storytelling that you just go along for the ride. And likewise when something pulls you out of the ride the storytellers are taking you on, you tend to notice the mechanics of it more, and what it is built from, and that's not always great.

I also wonder if it is partly because you have spent so much time over the years studying the mechanics and bones of storytelling, that make it harder for you to just gloss over things, and go along for the ride.

[Phillip]

I think it comes down to how many sources of inspiration. Your Star Wars example pulled from many, ending up feeling fun. I’m sure a book about Lala Laggins taking the one amulet with a dozen kobolds to melt in the Acid Mines of Hatred would feel like nothing more than a poorly penned clone.

[John (Taloni)]

Triiiiike! How do you miss the blatant rips of Barsoom? And the not-so-coy riffs on Dune?

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John (Taloni) wrote: "Triiiiike! How do you miss the blatant rips of Barsoom? And the not-so-coy riffs on Dune?"

I don’t see Burroughs as much, and I think the Dune stuff is pretty minor overall, speaking purely of Star Wars (“Episode IV” to the kids). But yeah, all of Star Wars is one big remix. They clearly used Dinotopia: A Land Apart from Time for Naboo in the prequels and Lawrence of Arabia for Book of Boba Fett, etc.

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John (Nevets) wrote: "I also wonder if it is partly because you have spent so much time over the years studying the mechanics and bones of storytelling, that make it harder for you to just gloss over things, and go along for the ride."

I think you’re on to something to there. I hadn’t really considered it, but I am like those comedians who don’t laugh at jokes because they see how the setup-punchline is constructed. So maybe it is just the whole “higher bar” thing, where I’ve consumed too much media and thought about it too much to enjoy the stuff that is… what’s the phrase? Less polished? Less clever? Low-hanging fruit? Something like that.

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Phillip wrote: "I think it comes down to how many sources of inspiration. Your Star Wars example pulled from many, ending up feeling fun. I’m sure a book about Lala Laggins taking the one amulet with a dozen kobol..."

You’re talking about The Sword of Shannara, aren’t you? 😆

[Rick]

I think some of this is in the viewer/reader. "Lawrence of Arabia for Book of Boba Fett" is never a connection I'd make just because they're both men who went a bit native in a desert environment.

I agree with John Nevets - most of this is in the execution and how skillfully a creator sources inspirations. Picking from one source usually feels like a ripoff because you can make all the connections "Oh this character is just that character with a different name" etc.

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Rick wrote: "I think some of this is in the viewer/reader. "Lawrence of Arabia for Book of Boba Fett" is never a connection I'd make just because they're both men who went a bit native in a desert environment. ..."

It’s not that, it’s direct parallels. For instance, the train attack scene is not a shot-for-shot recreation from the same scene in LoA, but it’s not far off, either.


https://ibb.co/zFCP2nh


https://ibb.co/XLQvMx5


https://ibb.co/dm6dXx5

These Star Wars shows are a good example of what I mean. The Mandalorian used a lot of the generic iconography of classic Westerns and Samurai films wrapped around a story similar to Lone Wolf and Cub, Omnibus 1 but different in key aspects.

Book of Boba Fett, meanwhile, didn’t seem to have an overarching story but feels like it was assembled Frankenstein-like out of pieces of other movies. There are scenes reminiscent of The Godfather, there’s a direct Casablanca steal, and the above LoA.

Mando is a remix, Boba is retread.

[Rick]

Huh, I'd forgotten that seen in LoA (it's been decades since I watched it). I should rent it and re-watch.