English Mysteries Club discussion
Buddy Reads
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Continuing Buddy Read of the Lord Peter Wimsey stories by Dorothy L. Sayers, with Adrian
Well, as ever , I don't know where the month has gone. I did finish the book a couple of weeks ago, but for various reasons have not got around to reviewing or commenting here, terrible !!So what did I think, well (at this point my cat walks across the keyboard and i end up with gobbledegook) I thought it was the best one so far of the novels. Maybe my background as a Project Manager meant I quite enjoyed the "nerdy" bell ringing stuff ha ha. But I also think it was the best whodunnit so far as well, very well crafted.
Ellen wrote: "The outcome for the Thoday's is absolutely tragic. Maybe Will made the wrong choice in not turning Deacon in but he loved Mary and his girls so much. ..."
I have to agree with Ellen above, that I felt it was a real shame for the Thodays as he proved a hero in the end.
And also that its a pity we don't here more about Hilary as she struck me as a witty, clever, sensible girl. Or do we ?
And as both Ellen and Rosemarie have said , Deacon was a nasty piece of work.
So with my son's 36th birthday tomorrow we head for the famous Gaudy Night.Again I remember the 1970s cover from my childhood and know I have read it, but have zero memory of the story. All I do know is that Harriet is back !!
All those still here, I hope you enjoy
I will definitely be rereading. I LOVE this book!
I never read it, so looking forward to it. And belated congrats on your son´s birthday Adrian! :)
I will pull out my copy of Gaudy Night if I can find it, and join in!
JenniferAustin wrote: "I will pull out my copy of Gaudy Night if I can find it, and join in!"I hope you found your copy Jennifer , and enjoy the read.
Michaela wrote: "I never read it, so looking forward to it. And belated congrats on your son´s birthday Adrian! :)"
Ooh I hope you really enjoy. And thanks Michaela
Ellen wrote: "I will definitely be rereading. I LOVE this book!"
Excellent - I really like this one as well, although it has been many years.
Well I cannot believe it the seventh of June already, the weather is fine, and my wife and I have a week to get ready for our trip to see youngest son and the family in Berlin, so I am hoping for a number of afternoons in the garden with Dorothy (L. Sayers) and Lord Peter.I hope you are all / will all enjoy the read, it is seen as one of the best if not THE best , and Harriet is back !!
Have a wonderful time in Berlin, Adrian!
Rosemarie wrote: "Have a wonderful time in Berlin, Adrian!"Thank you, we hope we do, although we will be spending time looking after the two year old twin grandchildren ha ha 🙂
Adrian wrote: "Rosemarie wrote: "Have a wonderful time in Berlin, Adrian!"Thank you, we hope we do, although we will be spending time looking after the two year old twin grandchildren ha ha 🙂"
That sounds lovely, Adrian! Have fun! I hope you get to enjoy a bit of Berlin as well as enjoying your grandchildren! There are lots of fun places there to take two year olds -- Templehofer Field, perhaps, to enjoy the outdoors?
Anyway, I am so looking forward to my time with Harriet and Peter!
JenniferAustin wrote: "That sounds lovely, Adrian! Have fun! I hope you get to enjoy a bit of Berlin as well as enjoying your grandchildren! There are lots of fun places there to take two year olds -- Templehofer Field, perhaps, to enjoy the outdoors? Anyway, I am so looking forward to my time with Harriet and Peter! ..."
Thanks JenniferAustin, I think our son and his wife have many walks around Berlin planned, so we are looking forward to the whole experience (although we have , because they live there, been a few times).
Enjoy the book , I hope to start in the next couple of days. Fingers crossed for the weather
Mod
I've started the book and realized just how long it is. It's a reread but it's been a while since I read it, so I'm enjoying rediscovering it.
I reread it earlier this month. I had to force myself to slow down because once I start I don't want to put it down. Sayers is such an intelligent writer. Some of it is over my head but I do believe over the years of my rereads I understand a lot that I didn't before. In comparison it seems some of the mysteries written by modern authors are at about a 6th grade reading level.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Hope you've had a good time in Berlin Adrian ... did you get to any Gaudy nights? I hope that this one is going well for everyone 😊"Hi Jean, and fellow readers, yes a fabulous time was had by all in Berlin. Weather sunny and hot, grandchildren delightful , and we're home and shattered !!! 🙂🙂
Yes I did manage to read some of Gaudy Night, about 20% before we went, some on the plane out, some on the way back, and I finished it last night, whilst winding down !. Thoroughly enjoyed. More thoughts probably tomorrow !
Rosemarie wrote: "I've started the book and realized just how long it is. It's a reread but it's been a while since I read it, so I'm enjoying rediscovering it."I really don't remember it all. So it was really exciting for me as well.
Ellen wrote: "I reread it earlier this month. I had to force myself to slow down because once I start I don't want to put it down. Sayers is such an intelligent writer. Some of it is over my head but I do believ..."It does get you like that Ellen, doesn't it. I really enjoyed it, and think the books are just getting better and better ! Some of the interaction and verbal sparring between Harriet and Peter is quite complex I have to admit.
I thought this had too much of philosophical discussions and too little of a mystery in it. Well written though with (view spoiler).
I reread this last year and absolutely love this book because it's so much more than a detective mystery. It's also about women's choices or not having choices, about whether women can have a career and a marriage at the same time. It's also a love story to Oxford and academia. And of course Harriet and Peter. (I love Peter in this book!)
I first read this back in the 80's - I was in my early twenties and
agree with Ellen that a lot of it went over my head and I didn't have a clue what the last sentences of the book meant, so frustrating! (and I still don't know Latin and the references to classical works so thank goodness for Google!)
I would love to know what women who actually read this book in the 30's thought about it! Whether it was an influence.
I read the lovely new paperback editon published in 2016 by Hodder and Stoughton and includes an introduction by Dame Harriet Walter who played Harriet Vane in the TV series.
I finished this last night and loved it -again! How can you not love that ending?!
Lynnie wrote: "I reread this last year and absolutely love this book because it's so much more than a detective mystery. It's also about women's choices or not having choices, about whether women can have a caree..."I think what you said Lynnie about a woman's choices or lack of them at the time ( and even now unfortunately in some instances ) was very perceptive. I now wish I'd asked my mother her thoughts as she was born in the 20s and I know read this relatively young. I bet her take would have been interesting !!
I also read the version with the Dame Harriet Walter intro, and it was interesting that when this was filmed with her and Peter Etheridge, they felt the need to bring Lord Peter in to the story earlier, diminishing Harriets role considerably. Shame on the TV company.
I fortunately went to a private school, and started Latin at the age of ten , but shall we say my memory of it is a little rusty ha ha.
I know I'm a little early but after returning from Berlin, I actually started Busman's Honeymoon and although there is a little time gap in some ways it continues straight from this novel, so the interplay is still wonderful.
Rosemarie wrote: "I finished this last night and loved it -again! How can you not love that ending?!"Exactly Rosemarie, I defy anyone to not enjoy this book.
Michaela wrote: "I thought this had too much of philosophical discussions and too little of a mystery in it. Well written though with [spoilers removed]."I think your "spoiler" comment sums it up exactly Michaela.
I am so enjoying Gaudy Night! I have read it quite a few times over the years, and it still delights! I checked out an audiobook copy, and am listening to Ian Carmichael read it, which is a new delight!
JenniferAustin wrote: "I am so enjoying Gaudy Night! I have read it quite a few times over the years, and it still delights! I checked out an audiobook copy, and am listening to Ian Carmichael read it, whi..."
I can imagine the Ian Carmichael audio would be brilliant, as I loved him as Lord Peter. Hope you continue to enjoy the book JenniferAustin.
My plan is to start Busman's Honeymoon next week. Looking forward to this reread. Sayers and her friend Muriel St. Clare Byrne wrote this as a play first. Certainly would like to see a live production of that.
Ellen wrote: "My plan is to start Busman's Honeymoon next week. Looking forward to this reread. Sayers and her friend Muriel St. Clare Byrne wrote this as a play first. Certainly would like to see ..."Well I hope you enjoy the book Ellen, as I certainly did, I think it was my favourite so far.
As to it being a play first, I know, its quite interesting isn't it. It has been performed as a play a number of times mostly in the UK , but also an adaptation of it and a few other books in Chicago.
One other point of interest for fans of mystery/detective books is that the 1947 TV adaptation (just 11 years after it was first released as a play) had a Miss Joan Hickson as Miss Twitterton. Years later of course Joan Hickson would star as everybody's favourite female detective Jane Marple.
I guess that time frame would have had her the right age for Miss Twitterton just as she was the an age match for Miss Marple. In my opinion the best Marple ever. I finished my reread and enjoyed it tremendously. I'm always changing my mind but as of today my order of preference for the novels is 1. Gaudy Night 2. Nine Tailors 3. Murder Must Advertise 4. Busman's Honeymoon 5. Strong Poison 6. Clouds of Witness 7. Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club 8. Unnatural Death 9. Have His Carcase 10. Whose Body? 11. Five Red Herrings
Ellen wrote: "I guess that time frame would have had her the right age for Miss Twitterton just as she was the an age match for Miss Marple. In my opinion the best Marple ever. I finished my reread and enjoyed i..."I have to agree with you Ellen, Joan Hickson was just the epitomy of Miss Marple. even Agatha Christie agreed with that, commenting years before she played the part that she would be good in the role.
An interesting choice of favourite novels. I would have to think very carefully before deciding ha ha. Although Gaudy Night and Nine Tailors are certainly amongst my favourites.
Adrian wrote: "Ellen wrote: "I guess that time frame would have had her the right age for Miss Twitterton just as she was the an age match for Miss Marple. In my opinion the best Marple ever. I finished my reread..."Just read a blog posted on Facebook that said Nine Tailors was the Sayers title you should avoid. Just to show how different tastes are. It almost makes me hesitate to recommend a book that I love to someone. What if they think it's awful.
I started reading Busman's Honeymoon last week and found the first 100 or so pages quite funny with all those people in the cottage - a sweep, a vicar, a lord and lady, a manservant, a spinster, a gardener, a daily help and the finance chap and then to top it all the policeman! It was almost farcical so I can see how it would make for a good play.I also liked how it started with all the letters about the wedding.
Now on to the murder....
I finished Busman's Honeymoon yesterday. It was a reread for me but as I last read it 16 years ago, of course I had totally forgotten whodunit.I think it is an extraordinary book and I really enjoyed reading it. From the unusual start and then into the early days of Peter and Harriet's marriage and the realisation (for Harriet) that Peter is heavily involved in solving a murder to the end. And then some!
Peter here is so different to when we first met him in Whose Body? I can't think of another golden age detective whose character has matured in such a way as Peter's? Poirot and Miss Marple have always remained the same.
I also liked Bunter very much in this book.
Ellen wrote: "Just read a blog posted on Facebook that said Nine Tailors was the Sayers title you should avoid. Just to show how different tastes are. It almost makes me hesitate to recommend a book that I love to someone. What if they think it's awful...."I can't believe that, The Nine Tailors was excellent. I must admit, i'm always hesitant about recommending books, I always put a lot of caveats around it "if you like X you may like this" etc !
Lynnie wrote: "I finished Busman's Honeymoon yesterday. It was a reread for me but as I last read it 16 years ago, of course I had totally forgotten whodunit.I think it is an extraordinary book and I really enj..."
I think it is an excellent book as well Lynnie, certainly my favourite to date. Peter has, as you say, really grown, or at least DLS's portrayal of Lord Peter has really grown. She has given him a much wider character since Whose Body? , more thoughtful, more realistic , more sensitive and far more rounded.
Well here we are, very nearly at the end of another month unbelievably. Next month (August 2023) we have the book In the Teeth of the Evidence. This contains 17 short stories, 10 general mystery stories, 5 starring Montague Egg and just two with our hero Lord Peter.
I therefore leave it up to you whether you read all the stories, 2 of the stories or none ha ha.
We have more short stories in September, and then we need to make a decision on whether we move onto the first of the Jill Paton Walsh Lord Peter novels. (Bearing in mind that DLS had a major input to the first and some input to the second). We can discuss this further through September.
I´m only a quarter into Busman´s Honeymoon, and so far nothing much happened mystery-wise, though the story so far was amusing. I´ll only finish it in August.
I'm a bit further than you, Michaela. I enjoyed the section with the chimney sweep.
Adrian wrote: "Ellen wrote: "Just read a blog posted on Facebook that said Nine Tailors was the Sayers title you should avoid. Just to show how different tastes are. It almost makes me hesitate to recommend a boo..."I agree with you, Adrian
Adrian wrote: "Ellen wrote: "Just read a blog posted on Facebook that said Nine Tailors was the Sayers title you should avoid. Just to show how different tastes are. It almost makes me hesitate to recommend a boo..."Nine Tailors was the first Peter Wimsey book I was introduced to and I read it when I was young. I couldn't put it down nor have I stopped reading DLS since.
I've finished the mystery part of the book and the newlyweds had one of the most bizarre beginnings to a honeymoon. And Bunter actually got angry-at the housekeeper, one of the most annoying characters in the book.
I finally finished the book, and I think I can´t get used to Sayers. It was so long and little mystery in it, and it dragged and dragged...
Michaela wrote: "I finally finished the book, and I think I can´t get used to Sayers. It was so long and little mystery in it, and it dragged and dragged..."Isn't it funny how we perceive books differently, I really enjoyed this and felt it fairly zipped along, but as ever there is no right answer and we each have our own opinions to be respected.
I hope you enjoy the short stories more Michaela
Rosemarie wrote: "I've finished the mystery part of the book and the newlyweds had one of the most bizarre beginnings to a honeymoon. And Bunter actually got angry-at the housekeeper, one of the most annoying charac..."Ha ha, yes I found the house keeper annoying and enjoyed Bunter finally putting her in her place.
Amy wrote: "Adrian wrote: "Ellen wrote: "Just read a blog posted on Facebook that said Nine Tailors was the Sayers title you should avoid. Just to show how different tastes are. It almost makes me hesitate to ..."I think I had a gap of over 30 years in my reading of Sayers, but have thoroughly enjoyed this group read .
So I have , in between visits to my sons in Berlin and London, actually managed to start In the Teeth of the Evidence, and now I know why it is called that !!.The first two stories are the Lord Peter ones, and have just started the second. I felt the first was interesting and quite good, but it felt a little non-sequitur after Busman's Honeymoon.
I'll be interested in any other views and peoples thoughts on moving forward with Lord Peter or not.
I like the Dorothy Sayers books and have no desire to read any modern sequels.
I've never been to London, or England either, but I love visiting Berlin.
Adrian wrote: "So I have , in between visits to my sons in Berlin and London, actually managed to start In the Teeth of the Evidence, and now I know why it is called that !!.The first two storie..."
I've also read the first story in In the Teeth of the Evidence I love that DLS always throws herself into the research of a person's job. In Busman's Honeymoon we had the sweep and here we have a dentist including info about fillings and teeth.
I would like to continue with the Jill Paton-Walsh books as I'm not ready to give up Peter and Harriet yet. If nobody else is interested maybe this thread could be kept open anyway?
English Mysteries Club
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I had forgotten the events in the final part of the book. It made the book more interesting.
I liked the book, but it's not my favourite,