The Night Watchman Discussion with Spoilers

[Sam]

I will let the reader's steer this discussion for now, since many of you are more educated on Erdrich than I. I think her blend of cultural, political, and literary elements are perfect for discussion and look forward to comments.

[Bretnie]

I really enjoyed this book. Not sure where to start with the discussion, but the characters really stuck with me. I'd heard this book was based on her father (the watchman), and that much of the treaty part of the book was true, which is devastating.

[Whitney]

I thought this was great, I've only read one or two short stories by Erdrich before and am regretting not getting to any novels sooner.

The writing is gorgeous, one of those books where you want to underline hundreds of passages. Just one example; "Noko was slowly crossing the river of sleep, floating away from them on her sinking raft."

I love how Erdrich saves her rich details for the what are normally considered the more mundane aspects of life such as how a room looks or the meaning of a piece of candy, while things that would usually be the grand opera of a novel are described sparsely, such as Vera's addiction and rescue, or Patrice's eye issues, - which are resolved with some drops and a pair of glasses.

An exception may be the poisonous waterjack suit, which was bonkers and horrific and such a great section of the book.

The story of Thomas and his efforts to preserve the treaty in the face of his own declining health and the overwhelming racism of the country were compelling. I'm a huge admirer of writers who are so skilled at making the political personal.

[Sam]

Thanks for responding. I think discussing Erdrich ultimately must examine her style, but it is difficult because I think she subordinates her style to the story, the social critique and the cultural depiction. I see her reducing her author imprint as much as possible, minimizing the attention to herself. Despite that, we clearly recognize we are in an Erdrich novel. That may be one reason she isn't easily discussed. Her place in the canon is rising though. Her journeyman approach is yielding a prolific number of respected works and it doesn't look like she slowing down. I think a comparative author would be John Steinbeck, though she hasn't a book as widely known as Of Mice and Men. Those are thoughts off the top of my head.

[Bretnie]

Whitney wrote: "I love how Erdrich saves her rich details for the what are normally considered the more mundane aspects of life such as how a room looks or the meaning of a piece of candy, while things that would usually be the grand opera of a novel are described sparsely, such as Vera's addiction and rescue, or Patrice's eye issues, - which are resolved with some drops and a pair of glasses."

That's a great observation. I love authors that can make the details beautiful without getting bogged down in them.

[Lily]

Was it deliberate that the factory brought to tribal land tended towards the talents of women rather than men? I.e., given the great need for productive employment of Indian men, why the career opportunities presented? Deliberate? An accident of the times and companies willing to invest? ....

[Lily]

I had sort of forgotten about Truman and the Puerto Rican attempt at assassination. (Actually, here, the 1954 United States Capitol shooting -- I was in grade school!?!) I wanted a little more cross-story in this manuscript written some 70+ years later, given the incident was mentioned at all.

[Lily]

Whitney wrote: "...The writing is gorgeous, one of those books where you want to underline hundreds of passages. ..."

Thank you for writing that, Whitney. One of the participants in my f2f group downplayed her writing and I found I bristled inwardly, w/o knowing how to respond. I believe I had just said that I had cringed at some of the "sex scenes," prefacing with comments on the difficulties I have heard (female) writers in workshops say about the difficulties they have in writing such. Although I may have cringed, I know that part of the country and the time setting well enough that I found them perhaps only too closely evocative.

[Lily]

Having recently read Krueger's This Tender Land and Sarah Bird's Daughter of a Daughter of a Queen , strangely(?), Erdrich had me asking, was this ethnic cleansing, American style? Quite certain my mind didn't want to go there.

(The last Erdrich that I have a certain record of reading was Tracks back in 1991 although I may well have The Plague of Doves (okay, my notes say I listened to this ~2009), The Beet Queen, and perhaps one set in the German community (The Master Butchers Singing Club ) on my shelves.)

[Sam]

Lily wrote: "Was it deliberate that the factory brought to tribal land tended towards the talents of women rather than men? I.e., given the great need for productive employment of Indian men, why the career opp..."

Good question! My sense was that it was economic reasons that found the factory there and that it was brought in under a state or federal program to provide work for the people but at a reduced wage. The concept that different factory jobs would be filled by different sexes would have been known and the "close work," would have been associated with women from the jewelry and textiles industry already.

[Jenna]

I think character is one of Erdrich's strengths as a writer - she finds the details and gestures and speech patterns that give individuals voice. I am enjoying listening to her read The Last Report on the Miracles at Little No Horse especially as there is a lot of speaking in native languages.

This book left me outraged at the American History cannon and dogma yet again - how do I keep not knowing about so much of how America really behaved?! I recently also read Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI The profound racism puts current events into a bit of a horrifying context - these attitudes are not archaic and are not gone. Hopefully having such enjoyable novels are the spoonful of sugar needed to educate those who don't seek out knowledge.

[Bretnie]

Jenna wrote: "This book left me outraged at the American History cannon and dogma yet again - how do I keep not knowing about so much of how America really behaved?! I recently also read Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI The profound racism puts current events into a bit of a horrifying context - these attitudes are not archaic and are not gone. Hopefully having such enjoyable novels are the spoonful of sugar needed to educate those who don't seek out knowledge."

I read this last year and also found it a solid book and horrifying. It's so easy for us as a society to say slavery and our wrongs against Native Americans were in the distant past, but there are so many lingering effects, confounded by the fact that we continue effing it up.

[Sam]

It is time for me to move to the next book. The discussion will be open for further comments but I need to finish The Last Policeman. I have two related thoughts to add.

Erdrich has a way of writing her characters that imbues them with individuality, giving them qualities that demonstrate their uniqueness that stands out in comparison with unconscious stereotyping that is a more frequent habit of most writers. If a character is impovershed or poorly educated an author is entitled to reinforce it in their depictions, but Erdrich offsets the stereotyping by emphasizing a characteristic that stands in the face oc the reinforcements. I find that recreshing and admirable.

Erdrich also has a way of presenting the philosophies and beliefs of the characters in a way that ties the belief to the character and adds so much verisimilitude. I find her depictions of animism or supernatural ocurrences much more enjoyable for that.

[Catherine]

I have to say I just loved this book. The character of Patrice is wonderful, as is the history lesson Thomas teaches us. The waterjack episode is crazy -- who could think of such a thing? Thanks for picking and discussing it.

[Whitney]

Catherine wrote: "I have to say I just loved this book. The character of Patrice is wonderful, as is the history lesson Thomas teaches us. The waterjack episode is crazy -- who could think of such a thing? Thanks fo..."

I know, right? I think everything man-made from the early to mid 20th Century can just be assumed to be toxic.

Jack's almost carnal love for the suit, and his complete indifference to the suffering it caused, seemed like yet one more subtle commentary from Erdrich about how things are valued over people, especially the disenfranchised.

[Suzy]

Sam wrote: "Thanks for responding. I think discussing Erdrich ultimately must examine her style, but it is difficult because I think she subordinates her style to the story, the social critique and the cultura..."

A thought about story over style. I do love Erdrich's writing style, but she is continuing the oral storytelling tradition of her people, which makes sense that the story is everything. This story in particular comes from the lived experience of her family, making it even more potent. I listened to her narrate the audiobook - she is the rare author who is a marvel at telling the story she has written.

[Bretnie]

Suzy wrote: "I listened to her narrate the audiobook - she is the rare author who is a marvel at telling the story she has written.."

I really enjoy her narration of her books! She has such a peaceful way of storytelling that works so well for the flow of her novels.

[Suzy]

I just finished this yesterday (in audio narrated by Erdrich). I loved it. I was swept up in this story in which Erdrich tells the story of the people living on the Turtle Mountain Chippewa Indian reservation at the time that the senate was trying to take away their sovereignty by forcibly removing them from their land. I love how she used the stories of individuals and families to tell the story of erasure and other issues felt still today. (e.g. Vera was held captive to serve the sex needs of sailors on a boat in Lake Superior; missing and murdered indigenous women is still a big issue today.)

Our government has been obsessed by the "Indian Problem" since the beginning, taking unbelievable steps to contain, assimilate and erase their culture. I have wondered why white people feel the need to regulate people who do not look and act like them! Infuriating, (Well, showing how Mormons viewed Indians as heathens gives us a clue!)

[Suzy]

Other good books have been mentioned here that illuminate the experience of Indigenous Americans. I will add that I've been reading off and on Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge, and the Teachings of Plants, which I'm learning so much from about the ways of Native Americans. It's a great companion to The Night Watchman. If you are inclined to read it, the author's narration of the audiobook is also marvelous!

[Suzy]

Bretnie wrote: "Suzy wrote: "I listened to her narrate the audiobook - she is the rare author who is a marvel at telling the story she has written.."

I really enjoy her narration of her books! She has such a peac..."

"peaceful way" says a lot!!

[Suzy]

I seem to be on a roll! If you're interested in more about the bill to remove Indians from their reservations and terminate the treaties, this radio documentary "Uprooted, the 1950'w Plan to Erase Indian Country." Published in late 2019 it says a lot relevant to our group read https://www.apmreports.org/episode/20...